i cannot believe we havent had a good old fashioned abortion discussion

[gh0st]

the topic is abortion.

discuss. [without degenerating into iraq, UN, bush, etc]

 

[Tr0n]

Only in rape situations.

 

[gh0st]

but why punish the child for its fathers crimes? that doesnt seem fair.

 

[GiaOmerta]

As much as I hate killing babies, yes. Rape situations.

EDIT: You got a point, your right. I change my stance. Aborting would only be legitment if it was in a life or death case for the mother. Some medical anamoly, type deal.

 

[Tr0n]

but why punish the child for its fathers crimes? that doesnt seem fair.

What about the mother?

 

[Steve]

I'm a cold-hearted son of a bitch, and I'm pro-choice. We've got a population problem as it is.

 

[gh0st]

What about the mother?

therein lies the problem. i do not believe the child, who is innocent of all wrong doing should be punished by death. rape is a terrible thing, and it does horrible things to the mind. yet, does that justify what is, in my opinion, murder? i dont think so. i guess it lies in how you see it.

 

[qckbeam]

I think it should be allowed given certain circumstances, like rape, medical complications, etc. However there should be a time limit on it (partial-birth abortions are quite horrible and should be illegal save for extreme cases), and the woman must meet certain criteria. Somehow it seems wrong to me if a woman has an abortion just because she forgot to take the proper precautions and wound up pregnant.

 

[GiaOmerta]

I'm a cold-hearted son of a bitch, and I'm pro-choice. We've got a population problem as it is.

You mean let's not educate our children: (sex, love, marriage, properly raising a family) problem?

 

[gh0st]

I think it should be allowed given certain circumstances, like rape, medical complications, etc. However there should be a time limit on it (partial-birth abortions are quite horrible and should be illegal save for extreme cases), and the woman must meet certain criteria. Somehow it seems wrong to me if a woman has an abortion just because she forgot to to take the proper precautions and wound up pregnant.

agreed, sans rape.

so many women get abortions just because its convenient, and its horrible waste of life. when 2 people start humping, they know the risks of using, and not using the proper precautions.

 

[Steve]

However there should be a time limit on it (partial-birth abortions are quite horrible and should be illegal save for extreme cases

Thanks for reminding me about that good sir. I failed to mention in my previous post that although I'm pro-choice, I believe partial abortion to be a horrendous act and I'm glad it's now illegal.

 

[Steve]

You mean let's not educate our children: (sex, love, marriage, properly raising a family) problem?

Oh, by all means, educate them. But understand that some kids just don't listen, and that teen pregnancies will happen regardless of how much we cram these values down their throats.

 

[gh0st]

Oh, by all means, educate them. But understand that some kids just don't listen, and that teen pregnancies will happen regardless of how much we cram these values down their throats.

it would be irresponsible to not make them deal with their "mistake." im saying this as teenager who has had a lot of close calls.. it was horrible. but in the end i think its better that people learn to live with the mistakes they make, and learn responsibility.

 

[Steve]

it would be irresponsible to not make them deal with their "mistake." im saying this as teenager who has had a lot of close calls.. it was horrible. but in the end i think its better that people learn to live with the mistakes they make, and learn responsibility.

Well, I see where you're coming from on that (in more ways than one), and yeah, learning to live with your mistakes is the best way to see them not repeated. Adoption is always a viable alternative, too, if they're not ready to be parents (which, lets' face it, most are not).

 

[gh0st]

Well, I see where you're coming from on that (in more ways than one), and yeah, learning to live with your mistakes is the best way to see them not repeated. Adoption is always a viable alternative, too, if they're not ready to be parents (which, lets' face it, most are not).

yeah adoption really is the only option for teen parents. there is a huge market for adoption, so it sure beats killing the child before its born.

 

[Steve]

As much as I hate to admit it, I believe this little thread is going to cause me to seriously re-think my views on abortion...hmm...who woulda guessed?

 

[gh0st]

As much as I hate to admit it, I believe this little thread is going to cause me to seriously re-think my views on abortion...hmm...who woulda guessed?

im sure it will get pulled back the other way, mine may too when i wake up and see 10000 replies i need to go through.

 

[Tr0n]

As much as I hate to admit it, I believe this little thread is going to cause me to seriously re-think my views on abortion...hmm...who woulda guessed?

Not me...Cause I don't give a damn.

<3

 

[Steve]

<3

Oh shut up Tr0n! You never loved me...not REALLY...not like you loved HER....

 

[Tr0n]

Oh shut up Tr0n! You never loved me...not REALLY...not like you loved HER....

Well she gave better...

Oh look a bird.

 

[Steve]

Oh, shit dude....you crack me up.

 

[Spartan]

Obviously you cannot deny abortion in rape situations (and it's not like the "baby" even exists at that point) or in medical emergencies.

 

[Korgoth]

I don't like the idea of abortions, but I do believe in a womans right to choose. I think they should be legal, I also think that they should be paid for out of the womans pocket (no ifs and or buts about it)... No insurance or government hand out for the procedure (unless life threatening) this way people who don't agree with the practice don't have to pay for it.

However, late term and partial birth abortions should be illegal and anyone caught doing this should be charged with murder. I also think we need to educate the woman first. Put her through a small program (akin to traffic school, or something similar) 3 or 4 hours of what an abortion is, how it affects you mentally down the road. The consequences and the alternatives. And if the woman still wants the abortion, has the money, and is early enough in her term she should get it.

 

[Absinthe]

I am pro-choice. If the mother's life is endangered, the child may have a serious disorder, or if the mother was raped, then the woman should be allowed to have one.

I don't agree with late or partial abortions.

I'm not sure how teen pregnancy should be handled. On one hand, the kids should have known the risks involved. However, if they've taken precautions that failed (ie. the condom broke) then should they really be given the burden of a child? And some people argue that these kids need to learn some responsibility. Well, that's not a guarantee. Many of these teens don't know how to raise a child. Furthermore, a lot of these teens' potential in life will be diminished because of it.

 

[Spartan]

I've always thought that people should be forced to take a training & certification course before they can have children. Nothing too complicated... it would just make sure that incapable parents won't get children. And by incapable I mean drunks, junkies and genuine idiots.

 

[CptStern]

dont forget the tragically stupid ...but then this political forum would be half empty :E

 

[Shocky]

I always thought of it as rather ironic that on one hand, a mother can choose to kill her child by abortion if she wishes, but if someone for instance shoots her while she is pregnant and her baby is killed, the person can be charged with murder. So its a "fetus" when you have an abortion but a human if it is killed and you want it..

hmm..

 

[CptStern]

so what if the pregnancy jeopordizes the life of the mother?

 

[Gray Fox]

Abortion should be allowed no matter what the reason, but only before an set amount of time, not after the embryo/fetus has developed to much, and if the woman doesn't have money then it should be payed for by the government simply because poor people have as much right to it as rich.

 

[Korgoth]

I always thought of it as rather ironic that on one hand, a mother can choose to kill her child by abortion if she wishes, but if someone for instance shoots her while she is pregnant and her baby is killed, the person can be charged with murder. So its a "fetus" when you have an abortion but a human if it is killed and you want it..

hmm..

There lies the divide... You say kill, I say its hard to kill something that isn't alive yet... See what I'm saying.

 

[Dedalus]

i believe it's no-ones choice but the mother's and her family. none of our business. full. stop.

the parents have to think about whether they have enough money to raise the child, will it get the right attention, will it get good enough healthcare, will it be able to get a decent education, will it be able to grow up and eventually get a job? all these questions will plague the parents to be. and if the answers to most of those questions were 'no', then abortion is the only option. sometimes it's better off not having the child, rather than subjecting it and the family to years of hardship at the hands of the very system that forced them to have it.

you want them to have the kid so bad, fine. but you can raise it for them.

y'see i had this theory, and this is based on wide generalisation at points so bare with me. unwanted kids get born. their parents are on the dole, or working 5 jobs to make ends meet. the kid gets next to no education and grows up to be a nobody. the only option left for them is to join...the army. that's right. it's a genius plan. a government who wants a steady supply of willing and able soldiers only has to slap a ban on abortion and there it is.

anyway, wild theories aside, the parents should decide. not our place.

 

[Death.Trap]

I'm a cold-hearted son of a bitch, and I'm pro-choice. We've got a population problem as it is.

If you think it's that much of a problem jump of a cliff. Come on, be a hero.



..Didn't think so.

 

[CptStern]

i believe it's no-ones choice but the mother's and her family. none of our business. full. stop.

the parents have to think about whether they have enough money to raise the child, will it get the right attention, will it get good enough healthcare, will it be able to get a decent education, will it be able to grow up and eventually get a job? all these questions will plague the parents to be. and if the answers to most of those questions were 'no', then abortion is the only option. sometimes it's better off not having the child, rather than subjecting it and the family to years of hardship at the hands of the very system that forced them to have it.

you want them to have the kid so bad, fine. but you can raise it for them.

y'see i had this theory, and this is based on wide generalisation at points so bare with me. unwanted kids get born. their parents are on the dole, or working 5 jobs to make ends meet. the kid gets next to no education and grows up to be a nobody. the only option left for them is to join...the army. that's right. it's a genius plan. a government who wants a steady supply of willing and able soldiers only has to slap a ban on abortion and there it is.

anyway, wild theories aside, the parents should decide. not our place.

:thumbs:


can I just add:

it's easy to be a parent, it's not so easy to be a good parent

 

[gh0st]

i believe it's no-ones choice but the mother's and her family. none of our business. full. stop.

the business is morality, and the publics best interest.

the parents have to think about whether they have enough money to raise the child, will it get the right attention, will it get good enough healthcare, will it be able to get a decent education, will it be able to grow up and eventually get a job? all these questions will plague the parents to be. and if the answers to most of those questions were 'no', then abortion is the only option. sometimes it's better off not having the child, rather than subjecting it and the family to years of hardship at the hands of the very system that forced them to have it.

because the person has made a mistake, does not mean they should live with it. that doesnt mean they should keep the child, there is a massive market of available adoption clients, and thats precisely where the child should go. or maybe we should just kill it

you want them to have the kid so bad, fine. but you can raise it for them.

why should i suffer for their mistake? they should go through the necessary channels to ensure their child has a proper upbringing.

y'see i had this theory, and this is based on wide generalisation at points so bare with me. unwanted kids get born. their parents are on the dole, or working 5 jobs to make ends meet. the kid gets next to no education and grows up to be a nobody. the only option left for them is to join...the army. that's right. it's a genius plan. a government who wants a steady supply of willing and able soldiers only has to slap a ban on abortion and there it is.

see above. doesnt it seem barbaric to you to just kill something that has a perfectly reasonble chance at having a life just like you or me?

 

[qckbeam]

i believe it's no-ones choice but the mother's and her family. none of our business. full. stop.

the parents have to think about whether they have enough money to raise the child, will it get the right attention, will it get good enough healthcare, will it be able to get a decent education, will it be able to grow up and eventually get a job? all these questions will plague the parents to be. and if the answers to most of those questions were 'no', then abortion is the only option. sometimes it's better off not having the child, rather than subjecting it and the family to years of hardship at the hands of the very system that forced them to have it.

Those are valid points, but rather than kill the child (or terminate the pregnancy, however you'd like to phrase it) why not just give it up for adoption? There are so, so many couples who would make wonderful parents and cannot have children themselves, and so are trying to adopt. There are thousands upon thousands of people out there, just waiting for their baby. I know from personal experience that the wait for a child can often turn out to be years, simply because the number of children to adopt is tiny compared to the number of parents trying to adopt. I don't understand how you could say yes to unrestricted abortions when the alternative of letting the child live and grow up in a home with parents that love him or her is such a viable one.

you want them to have the kid so bad, fine. but you can raise it for them.

I personally don't necessarily want to raise the child, but off-hand I could name you ten couples that would love to, and would do a damn good job of it as well.

y'see i had this theory, and this is based on wide generalisation at points so bare with me. unwanted kids get born. their parents are on the dole, or working 5 jobs to make ends meet. the kid gets next to no education and grows up to be a nobody. the only option left for them is to join...the army. that's right. it's a genius plan. a government who wants a steady supply of willing and able soldiers only has to slap a ban on abortion and there it is.

anyway, wild theories aside, the parents should decide. not our place.

That's a pretty crazy theory considering how many of these unwanted children would end up in the homes of adoptive parents and grow up to be happy, functional people. No offense or anything of course

As for your last statement, about how the parents should decide and that's that, I can't fully agree. Once again, I believe that in certain cases the parents should be allowed to decide, but if two grown adults engage in consensual sex while fully aware of the consequences and end up with a perfectly healthy and normal pregnancy on their hands, termination should not be on option. You'd be putting a stop to a process that in nine short months would produce a normal, healthy human being that could easily be placed into the arms of adoptive parents to live a happy life under their guidance. I'm a firm believer that it is very much our business to make sure life is not ended needlessly.

 

[gh0st]

qck are we in agreement? who would have thought.

 

[The Mullinator]

A baby in the earliest stages of development is no more a living thing that deserves protection than a hunk of my own skin which I kill everyday by scratching myself.

Later in development though I would say its baby killing but most women probably don't do it late in the pregnancy anyway.

 

[qckbeam]

qck are we in agreement? who would have thought.

Is it really that surprising?

 

[gh0st]

Is it really that surprising?

no, i guess not.

 

[Ikerous]

Those are valid points, but rather than kill the child (or terminate the pregnancy, however you'd like to phrase it) why not just give it up for adoption? There are so, so many couples who would make wonderful parents and cannot have children themselves, and so are trying to adopt. There are thousands upon thousands of people out there, just waiting for their baby. I know from personal experience that the wait for a child can often turn out to be years, simply because the number of children to adopt is tiny compared to the number of parents trying to adopt. I don't understand how you could say yes to unrestricted abortions when the alternative of letting the child live and grow up in a home with parents that love him or her is such a viable one.

Adoption seems obvious if you're pro-life, however if you're prochoice, then you dont see the lil guy as alive. Which means in that sense you're forcing the mother to have a child for someone else. Forcing people to have babies for people is obviously wrong...