I knew it alll along :P

[Sidewinder]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e14_1177024616


What do you guys think.

 

[Naudian]

Oh shi-

 

[Sidewinder]

have they taken you away already?



seriously,these people aren't in the minority anymore....

 

[Llama]

So there are 50 million Muslims in Europe, Big deal. There are probably 90 million Christians in the UK alone. Why does that number even mean anything? Do you think the Muslim community at large is a fire breathing dragon waiting to enslave you?
Its utter hyped rubbish. Every religion has religious idiots.

 

[Jintor]

And a Christian Evangalist preaching fire and brimstone...

 

[Absinthe]

I'm sorry. I find all religions to be trash, but contemporary Islam is far more bloodthirsty and brutal than contemporary Christianity. 50 million Muslims in Europe is a big deal, especially if the lack of integrative efforts we see today persists.

 

[Shakermaker]

Isn't that Colonel Khadaffi?

 

[repiV]

We ignore this at our peril.
I fully expect the usual baseless and ignorant "but the vast majority of Muslims are amazing people who just want the chance to integrate!", kid gloves and burying of head in sand to eventually lead either to our downfall or World War III. Perhaps one, then the other.

 

[Absinthe]

The funny thing about the "nice, intelligent Muslims" apology is that those are the ones that have killed people and will do so again.

As a relatively recent European example, look at the '05 London bombings. Everybody involved was educated, intelligent, and by most accounts quite pleasant to be around. Society had done them no wrong. The only motivating factor in their attack was an Islamic one.

You don't need to be a screaming zealot in order to be a fanatic. If the Muslim religion is capable of warping otherwise well-adjusted people into murderers, then there is indeed cause for concern when Islam is an ever-growing import. Draw whatever parallels you want to Christianity, but this specific kind of faith-based aggression is uniquely Muslim and any mirroring of it in other religions is scarce today. I don't see many (if any) Christian suicide bombers anywhere in Europe. Even the troubles in Ireland, though steeped in religion, had a relevant political subtext. The same cannot be said for many Islamic attacks.

 

[repiV]

The funny thing about the "nice, intelligent Muslims" apology is that those are the ones that have killed people and will do so again.

As a relatively recent European example, look at the '05 London bombings. Everybody involved was educated, intelligent, and by most accounts quite pleasant to be around. Society had done them no wrong. The only motivating factor in their attack was an Islamic one.

You don't need to be a screaming zealot in order to be a fanatic. If the Muslim religion is capable of warping otherwise well-adjusted people into murderers, then there is indeed cause for concern when Islam is an ever-growing import. Draw whatever parallels you want to Christianity, but this specific kind of faith-based aggression is uniquely Muslim and any mirroring of it in other religions is scarce. I don't see many (if any) Christian suicide bombers anywhere in Europe. Even the troubles in Ireland, though steeped in religion, had a relevant political subtext. The same cannot be said for many Islamic attacks.

Yep. I had a good friend at college called Ali. He was born in Iraq although had lived here since he was five. As far as I was concerned, he was 200% English...his personality was a lot more typically English than mine (I find I'm more of an English/American hybrid...). Sunni Muslim, I believe - though that was never important.
He went to Jordan to study his CCNA (why he chose Jordan is beyond me, I think he wanted to be able to visit his family in Iraq). In the early days we kept in touch on MSN, he said he absolutely hated it there - total lack of law and order and couldn't wait to be back in the UK.
Over time we kinda lost touch, and he showed up again in the UK some time later...he's turned into some zealous, anti-Western, jihadi ****stick. He associated himself as a "soldier of the army of the Mehdi" and I could fully see him as a potential terrorist. I had to report him to MI5.
Good friend becomes dangerous enemy. That's the corrupting influence of Islam for you.

I don't see many (if any) Christian suicide bombers anywhere in Europe. Even the troubles in Ireland, though steeped in religion, had a relevant political subtext. The same cannot be said for many Islamic attacks.

The opinions of apologists don't stem from any rational observation of the facts, but rather politically correct brainwashing that compels them to draw moral equivalence lest they paint minorities in a negative light.

 

[Link]

Speak for yourself. I work in london, one of the most ethnically diverse towns in the world (Unless you count white people ), and almost every single muslim family I have visited is nice and polite. They always try to make me feel welcome in thier homes whilst I'm there, and treat me as an equal, when most other people treat me as some kind of skivy whos there to fix thier 'net.

By far, the majority of my colleagues are muslim, and they are all as english as I am.

Muslim extremeists arn't terrorists because they are muslims, thats just thier excuse. They are terrorists because they are mentally unstable, and open to the suggestion of the ringleaders who also use muslim religeon as an excuse.

 

[repiV]

Speak for yourself. I work in london, one of the most ethnically diverse towns in the world (Unless you count white people ), and almost every single muslim family I have visited is nice and polite. They always try to make me feel welcome in thier homes whilst I'm there, and treat me as an equal, when most other people treat me as some kind of skivy whos there to fix thier 'net.

By far, the majority of my colleagues are muslim, and they are all as english as I am.

Muslim extremeists arn't terrorists because they are muslims, thats just thier excuse. They are terrorists because they are mentally unstable, and open to the suggestion of the ringleaders who also use muslim religeon as an excuse.

I've lived in London my entire life...I'm not sure what your point is.
Why would the problematic Muslim families who think we are all heathens, that Western society is repugnant or who actively want to bring it down associate with you or welcome you into their house in the first place?
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

 

[Link]

Either the problem is the muslim religeon or its not. If it is, then UK based muslims would be the same as middle eastern. As I say muslim is the excuse, not the cause.
Terroists who are muslim do not make muslims terrorists.

 

[repiV]

Either the problem is the muslim religeon or its not. If it is, then UK based muslims would be the same as middle eastern. As I say muslim is the excuse, not the cause.

UK based Muslims are in many cases a whole lot worse than many Middle Eastern Muslims...this is the wholly frightening part.

Terroists who are muslim do not make muslims terrorists.

Um, Muslim terrorists are just that - Muslim terrorists. That the widespread existence of the above does not make all Muslims terrorists is blindingly obvious and totally irrelevant. Islam is causing serious problems in this country in terms of our culture, our freedom of expression and our security - our very identity even, and to claim otherwise is to bury your head in the sand. And it's not just Muslim terrorists causing the problem - Islam is a retrograde political force that seeks to control and dominate wherever it spreads. And wherever it does dominate and control, mediocrity, poverty and oppression soon follow.
We must keep Islam at bay in Europe. Our lives as we know them depend on it.

 

[Absinthe]

Speak for yourself. I work in london, one of the most ethnically diverse towns in the world (Unless you count white people ), and almost every single muslim family I have visited is nice and polite.

By far, the majority of my colleagues are muslim, and they are all as english as I am.

That's the whole point. The perpetrators behind the London bombings were just as English as everybody else. As educated, bright, polite, sociable young men, they were above suspicion.

If the bombings demonstrated anything, it's that anybody who truly and strongly believes his religion is both capable and willing to do anything he believes is justified by his faith. This is not stupidity, nor is it necessarily insanity. Martyrdom is the rational and logical consequence of an irrational idea.

The idea that just because somebody acts civilized does not mean they are above committing atrocities. The Nazis running concentration camps would spend their days overseeing the subjugation, torture, and murder of Jewish inmates. But at the end of the day, they were able to tuck their children in at night, love their wives, have fun with their friends, or write beautiful music in their spare time. That kind of disparity is all too real.

When you get ideas as volatile as Islam, it doesn't matter how "nice" people seem, because that's pretty much been proven to be insufficient criteria for deciding who is an extremist and who is not. And if you're an extremist, by definition you are either a terrorist or a supporter of it. If you're an extremist, you go all the way, and Islam is quite clear with what that entails. And with the vast majority of the Muslim community showing complete reluctance to condemn Islamic terrorists, it's absolutely absurd to think that fearing the geographic spread of Islam is unjustified.

Muslim extremeists arn't terrorists because they are muslims, thats just thier excuse. They are terrorists because they are mentally unstable, and open to the suggestion of the ringleaders who also use muslim religeon as an excuse.

Islam is intrinsically violent. There's no way it can be construed as a religion of peace or anything remotely approaching that. Christianity certainly has a long and bloody history behind it, and it doesn't fare much better. But the difference is that Christianity today is a butchered carcass that can be cherry-picked, thanks in no small part to the advancement of secular ideals. Islam, however, has remained relatively intact since its inception.

Islamic terrorism is not a product of mental instability. It's a product or people sincerely believing that killing others (along with themselves in many cases) is glorious and will be rewarded by Allah. 9/11 wouldn't have been the calculated and utterly successful attack it was if the perpetrators were nothing but off-kilter psychos.

Link, if Islam was not the cause behind the London bombings, then what was? Because there is no shortage of well-off, intelligent people killing others in the absence of political or societal grievances. In Dawkins' The God Delusion, he makes reference to an interview with a failed suicide bomber, and when asked why he was willing to blow himself up, he cited no reasons that were political, economic, or otherwise. It was for the sake of martyrdom. And he said this with unbelievable eloquence and thought put behind it. In short, he didn't do it because he was some dumbshit.

There's no reason to think that that kind of mindset is limited to only a few select individuals.

 

[No Limit]

Absinthe, you think the problem is the Islamic religion and not the poverty that surrounds those Muslim countries? You don't think it has anything to do with my countries and your countires continued aggression toward that religion?

Like you said, Chrisianity was just as violent. They were violent when they faced a threat from other religions. Currently there is virtually no threat to Christianity so there is nothing to be violent about. Muslims on the other hand continually feel threatended and from what I've seen on some of your British "news" programs they have a right to be threatened.

With that said I've met many Muslims here in the states. I have not met a single one that was some kind of extremist.

 

[repiV]

Absinthe, you think the problem is the Islamic religion and not the poverty that surrounds those Muslim countries? You don't think it has anything to do with my countries and your countires continued aggression toward that religion?

Like you said Chrisianity was just as violent when they faced a threat from other religions. Currently there is virtually no threat to Christianity so there is nothing to be violent about. Muslims on the other hand continually feel threatended and from what I've seen on some of your British "news" programs they have a right to be threatened.

With that said I've met many Muslims here in the states. I have not met a single one that was some kind of extremist.

Poverty doesn't surround Muslim countries. Muslim countries are poor because of Islam.
With those huge oil reserves to draw on, Europeans would settle the Middle East like they settled the USA and make the most amazing, prosperous society in history. There is simply no excuse for the Middle East to be poor. It is ineptitude, incompetence and ignorance, pure and simple.

 

[No Limit]

Poverty doesn't surround Muslim countries. Muslim countries are poor because of Islam.
With those huge oil reserves to draw on, Europeans would settle the Middle East like they settled the USA and make the most amazing, prosperous society in history. There is simply no excuse for the Middle East to be poor. It is ineptitude, incompetence and ignorance, pure and simple.

And you don't think it has anything to do with the fact that the people in power there abuse these oil reserves for their own personal gain, and they do it with our help?

 

[repiV]

And you don't think it has anything to do with the fact that the people in power there abuse these oil reserves for their own personal gain, and they do it with our help?

I think you should take the hint from the fact that whereever Islam spreads, shit follows and wherever secularism and capitalism goes, prosperity follows.

 

[Absinthe]

Absinthe, you think the problem is the Islamic religion and not the poverty that surrounds those Muslim countries? You don't think it has anything to do with my countries and your countires continued aggression toward that religion?

Yeap. That's exactly it. As I have already pointed out, there is no indication that poverty or oppression plays any part in this behavior. If it did, then where are the Tibetan suicide bombers?

Islam has been a religion of violence and conquest since its early years. While there are certainly political elements involved with current Islamic terrorism, these politics are based off the Muslim religion. You can't say they're fighting oppression when a democratically elected government enshrines the Koran into Iraqi law. You can't say that when women (who get the brunt of Islamic brutality) are actively taking part in suicide bombings as well. This is not an issue of oppression, since they're more than willing to accept it when it's of a Muslim flavor. For all the badmouthing Saddam got when he was overthrown, it wasn't too long until many Iraqis began to identify him as a martyr because of their shared religious beliefs.

This has nothing to do with oppression. This has to do with a perceived threat of infidels.

Like you said, Chrisianity was just as violent. They were violent when they faced a threat from other religions. Currently there is virtually no threat to Christianity so there is nothing to be violent about. Muslims on the other hand continually feel threatended and from what I've seen on some of your British "news" programs they have a right to be threatened.

Threatened? Were Danish cartoons depicting Muhammed threatening? The worldwide outcry over this alleged abuse should be enough to support the fact that most threats facing Islam are of Islam's own making. If you truly believed that Jews were trying to suck your blood, regardless of how this squares with reality, you'd see Jews as a threat. That perceived threat is a product of Islamic ignorance. Just the same when you've been taught to believe that all infidels are evil, and therefore aggressors.

This is not to say that there are no legitimate political grievances. But there is no rational, secular explanation for things like the Iraqi insurgency. There is no sense in intentionally blowing yourself up along with innocent civilians as a method of forcing Coalition withdrawal. As boneheaded as the invasion was, the most harmless course to recovery would have been mutual cooperation. Instead, the insurgency prefers counter-productivity on the basis that blasphemous feet are on Muslim soil.

If there is really a pervasive threat to Islam due to the media, it's pretty much their fault. They saw off the heads of prisoners, drag/burn/dismember bodies in the streets, preach death to infidelity, abuse their women, and detonate themselves with explosives to maximize casualties (almost always indiscriminate). You'll have to excuse myself and others when after witnessing these on the television or reading them in the paper, that I start to think you're dangerous and a liability to global stability.

With that said I've met many Muslims here in the states. I have not met a single one that was some kind of extremist.

Obviously, not all Muslims are extremists. That would be a stupid statement to make.

 

[No Limit]

I think you should take the hint from the fact that whereever Islam spreads, shit follows and wherever secularism and capitalism goes, prosperity follows.

Don't get me wrong, I mostly agree. However, if you don't mind I would like to correct your statement to the following:

whereever religion spreads, shit follows

But the fact I think still remains. Since the start of religion people in power have exploited it for their own personal gain. It is nothing new and it is happening in this country with christianity and it is happening in places like Saudi Arabia where with the help of the west they are able to toally exploit their resources for the good of the rich while keeping the poor down all in the name of religion. I was just watching a show on the Discovery HD, I think it was extreme engineering. They showed how they were building this huge mall with the largest indoor skii resort ever built. The entire project was funded by the west, yet you had poor saudis working on this thing in 130 degree weather with 90% humidity from sun rise all the way to dawn. You could see the westerners getting upset that workers would arrive late because of traffic, yet these workers got to work on company buses. How much do you think those workers got paid and how much do you think the westerners actually received.

That's why I get a little upset when people try to blame all the problems these people are facing on the general islamic population and not on us when we are the ones that are exploiting them.

 

[No Limit]

But Absinthe, you don't think you would share the same beliefs as these people when you were forced each and every day to study the islamic religion the way the people in power wanted you to study it. You don't think that if the radical christians in this country taught violance against abortion clinics or against gays a small percentage of the population would actually follow through with it...oh wait.

 

[repiV]

Don't get me wrong, I mostly agree. However, if you don't mind I would like to correct your statement to the following:

I do mind, because your statement is inaccurate. Israel is about 60 years old, is a nation founded on religion, and yet it's actually a fair, just, democratic, tolerant and relatively prosperous society - in fact their accomplishments are remarkable considering that all their neighbours want to kill them.
I have no love for religion, but your "correction" is nothing more than an attempt to deflect blame away from Islam.

But the fact I think still remains. Since the start of religion people in power have exploited it for their own personal gain. It is nothing new and it is happening in this country with christianity and it is happening in places like Saudi Arabia where with the help of the west they are able to toally exploit their resources for the good of the rich while keeping the poor down all in the name of religion. I was just watching a show on the Discovery HD, I think it was extreme engineering. They showed how they were building this huge mall with the largest indoor skii resort ever built. The entire project was funded by the west, yet you had poor saudis working on this thing in 130 degree weather with 90% humidity from sun rise all the way to dawn. You could see the westerners getting upset that workers would arrive late because of traffic, yet these workers got to work on company buses. How much do you think those workers got paid and how much do you think the westerners actually received.

That's why I get a little upset when people try to blame all the problems these people are facing on the general islamic population and not on us when we are the ones that are exploiting them.

You're confusing exploitation with capitalism. If it wasn't in their interests to work from dusk until dawn for the money they received, they wouldn't have done it. Wages are always set by supply and demand, hence why plumbers now get paid more than IT professionals. Hence why driving instructors get paid a lot more than motorcycle instructors.
Businesses are profit-making enterprises, not charities. Your response indicates an inherent naivete.
The Middle East is a shithole because Islam encourages oppression, subjugation, ignorance and intolerance. If we allow the spread of Islam to continue indefinitely, eventually Europe will go the same way.

 

[No Limit]

You're confusing exploitation with capitalism. If it wasn't in their interests to work from dusk until dawn for the money they received, they wouldn't have done it. Wages are always set by supply and demand, hence why plumbers now get paid more than IT professionals. Hence why driving instructors get paid a lot more than motorcycle instructors.
Businesses are profit-making enterprises, not charities. Your response indicates an inherent naivete.
The Middle East is a shithole because Islam encourages oppression, subjugation, ignorance and intolerance. If we allow the spread of Islam to continue indefinitely, eventually Europe will go the same way.

Ok, I get it, paying poor starving people with families to feed just as much as you can get away with is not exploitation, its capitalism.

What I don't understand is why with a mentallity like that you are confused as to why these people hate you so much.

I do mind, because your statement is inaccurate. Israel is about 60 years old, is a nation founded on religion, and yet it's actually a fair, just, democratic, tolerant and relatively prosperous society.
I have no love for religion, but your "correction" is nothing more than an attempt to deflect blame away from Islam.

Wait just a sec, did you just imply that Israel is peaceful?

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

Speak for yourself. I work in london, one of the most ethnically diverse towns in the world (Unless you count white people ), and almost every single muslim family I have visited is nice and polite. They always try to make me feel welcome in thier homes whilst I'm there, and treat me as an equal, when most other people treat me as some kind of skivy whos there to fix thier 'net.

By far, the majority of my colleagues are muslim, and they are all as english as I am.

Muslim extremeists arn't terrorists because they are muslims, thats just thier excuse. They are terrorists because they are mentally unstable, and open to the suggestion of the ringleaders who also use muslim religeon as an excuse.

QFT, most Muslism are nice people who woulnd't dream of murdering. Sorry Absinthe, but if they sincerly believe that they will be rewarded by Allah for the murder of others then they ARE mentally unstable, and by a long way, no matter what you might think.

EDIT: And you cannot possibly say that Islam is more (or less) violent than any religon. Christianity has had bloodshed following it since its birth, as do most religons. People rewrite or misunderstand bits of the book (or just cut the "be nice" parts out altogethor) for their own personal use. ALL major religons are guilty of this, not just Islam.

 

[Absinthe]

Christianity is still pervasive in its own dysfunctional way, but it is no longer the uniformly aggressive institution it once was. Christianity has reached a point in the West where there are severe differences of opinion among Christians themselves. It is possible to say you're a Christian and still be against abortion. Or have no problem with homosexuals. Hell, we have gay priests now. This would never survive within Islam. Not until it has reformed itself through secularization.

I'm not aware of any churches that teach and command attendants to bomb abortion clinics or kill gays. However, similar instruction is quite common in mosques. The aggressive anti-infidel mindset is far more frequent among Muslims than in Christians. There is a disturbing trend in the recent rise of conservative Christianity in the United States, but we have not reached the point where the Bible is an addendum to the constitution. The same cannot be said for many Muslim countries.

And yes, religion (dangerous or otherwise) is most often a product of indoctrination early in life. But I don't see how that really changes anything I'm saying. Just because they were unfortunately mentally abused as children doesn't give them a free pass in life. You can't argue that geographic spread of Islam is acceptable because "Well, little Bobby was brainwashed into violently hating the West, so it's not his fault!".

 

[repiV]

Ok, I get it, paying poor starving people with families to feed just as much as you can get away with is not exploitation, its capitalism.

Well if they didn't take the job in the first place, they wouldn't have any money at all would they?
40% of Londoners barely earn enough to survive...that's just life I'm afraid.

What I don't understand is why with a mentallity like that you are confused as to why these people hate you so much.

I don't give a **** whether they hate me or not or why.
I care that we are not adequately defending ourselves against them.

Wait just a sec, did you just imply that Israel is peaceful?

Yes, Israel is peaceful. Defending yourself is not the same as actively seeking conflict. Although I actually made no indication of their actions towards the outside world in my post - I merely pointed out the fact that as a country founded on religion, it is a tolerant, democratic society and a desirable place to live.

 

[Absinthe]

QFT, most Muslism are nice people who woulnd't dream of murdering. Sorry Absinthe, but if they sincerly believe that they will be rewarded by Allah for the murder of others then they ARE mentally unstable, and by a long way, no matter what you might think.

Quite wrong. I don't know where you get off saying that most Muslims are peace-loving people.

In 2002, the Pew Research Center did a survey in Islamic countries, ranging from what we consider to be extremist (Saudi Arabia) to moderate (Turkey). The question asked was "Is Suicide Bombing in the Defense of Islam Ever Justifiable?" There was overwhelming support in nearly every Islamic country. Even Turkey had a large significant portion of its population agreeing with it, even if only rarely.

It shouldn't happen rarely. It shouldn't happen period.

It is not a product of mental instability. It is a product of sincere belief. Mental instability entails a host of things. Not all terrorists are psychopaths. There is a method to the madness, and its roots lie in Islam. Just because you can't fathom the idea of people willing to die for a religious belief does not mean it doesn't exist. You have also apparently not read the bulk of my posts, so please do so. That should address your comparison to Christianity.

 

[Absinthe]

Wait just a sec, did you just imply that Israel is peaceful?

Did I? I certainly don't recall doing so.

 

[No Limit]

Well if they didn't take the job in the first place, they wouldn't have any money at all would they?
40% of Londoners barely earn enough to survive...that's just life I'm afraid.

I guess you don't understand how painful hunger really is. If they didn't take the job in the first place they would starve, so they really don't have much of a choice, now do they? You guys must have it good, real good. Congratulations, I guess that means you don't have to be considerate of other people that weren't lucky enough to be born in to the prosperity you were born into. I'm sure there are poor people in London as there are poor people here, but the definition of poor is very different depending on which region of the world you happen to live on.

I don't give a **** whether they hate me or not or why.
I care that we are not adequately defending ourselves against them.

And because of that they are trying to defend against you. Its wonderful, isn't it? Let me ask you this, who do you think started this aggression, them or us? And what information are you actually basing that on?

Yes, Israel is peaceful. Defending yourself is not the same as actively seeking conflict. Although I actually made no indication of their actions towards the outside world in my post - I merely pointed out the fact that as a country founded on religion, it is a tolerant, democratic society and a desirable place to live.

Ok, I'll bite. In the last 100 years which muslim country has actually attacked another non muslim country with a military. I'll give you some time to think about that. Meanwhile look up Israel's invasions and look up Americas invasions in the last decade or so. In the mean time also look up how Israel actually got its country. I guess those brown people are the barbarians, we on the other hand are extremely innocent. When we support the unprovoked killing of over 1000 lebanese civillians its self defense from a country that has never provoked us in any way, shape, or form.

 

[repiV]

I guess you don't understand how painful hunger really is. If they didn't take the job in the first place they would starve, so they really don't have much of a choice, now do they?

No, they don't. Meaning they would be worse off if the work was never outsourced there in the first place. If you think businesses do anybody any favours, you are a fool.

You guys must have it good, real good. Congratulations, I guess that means you don't have to be considerate of other people that weren't lucky enough to be born in to the prosperity you were born into. I'm sure there are poor people in London as there are poor people here, but the definition of poor is very different depending on which region of the world you happen to live on.

I wasn't born into prosperity. Quite the opposite. But it's actually not that difficult to make something of yourself if you aren't a self-absorbed prick with a victim complex and an inflated sense of self-worth.
And your immature, petulant posting style is really beginning to piss me off.

And because of that they are trying to defend against you. Its wonderful, isn't it? Let me ask you this, who do you think started this aggression, them or us? And what information are you actually basing that on?

That doesn't even make any sense. The Saudi Arabian suicide bombers responsible for 9/11 were defending against the West, who supply them with arms and military training and such?
The Muslims who were born in the UK and thus given a great privilege were defending themselves against us by suicide bombing the London underground?
Talk ****ing sense.

Ok, I'll bite. In the last 100 years which muslim country has actually attacked another non muslim country with a military. I'll give you some time to think about that.

That's an irrelevant question because no Muslim countries except the less batshit insane ones have the capability or force projection to attack a non-Muslim country with a military.

Meanwhile look up Israel's invasions and look up Americas invasions in the last decade or so.

Use neighbouring countries as a staging ground to attack Israel with and you deserve to get invaded.

In the mean time also look up how Israel actually got its country.

They were given it by the British. How heart-wrenchingly awful.
Meanwhile, 20% of Israel's population are Muslim, and they have a far better life in Israel than they would have anywhere else in the Middle East.

I guess those brown people are the barbarians, we on the other hand are extremely innocent. When we support the unprovoked killing of over 1000 lebanese civillians its self defense from a country that has never provoked us in any way, shape, or form.

"Support the unprovoked killing of Lebanese civilians"...bloody hell, you're an uninformed moron of the worst kind. I don't see you passing comment on Hezbollah indiscriminately firing rockets into Israeli cities from Lebanon. The civilians died because Hezbollah used them as human shields. They operated out of civilian populations and actively used the civilians as shields during their battles with the Israelis. Hezbollah carry sole responsibility for those deaths. Given the situation Israel were in, it's amazing there were so few civilian casualties.
Get a ****ing clue.

 

[No Limit]

So you still don't get it?

Why is it when we invade a country, or our "allies" invade a country it is always seen by people like you as self defense when those countries never actually attacked us. Your facts on everything are completely backwards. You are trying to imply these muslim countries are responsible for the weapons and training that the 9/11 attackers got when it was in fact the west that provided them those weapons and that training in the 80s. Back then they were our allies. You don't remember any of that?

You say Israel invaded lebanon as self defense. What exactly was accomplished by that killing of 1000 innocent civillians? There is absolutely no evidance what so ever that hezbollah used civillians as human shields, you are making shit up based off Israel propogenda.

Was it self defense when Israel shot on numerous occasions at red cross ambulances?

Was it self denfesne when they destroyed the lebanses infostructure such as roads and power plants so hospitals could not operate and the wounded could not be transported?

Was it self defense when they killed a bunch of children, said it was because hezbollah was firing rockets from there and then refused to release the videos that would have proved this?

How about Iraq, was that self defense when we invaded them? Self defense from what?

I really don't understand people like you, you seem to think that any killing done in your name is always justified no matter how many facts there are that prove other wise. Yet when those bloody muslims attack us without the backing of any actualy government (other than our own) its called terrorism. So I'll repeat myself, I can not understand how people like you can not comprehand why most muslims, muslims that were never extreme, hate you so much. How do you not see how it is your own policies that are creating these extremists. You didn't answer my main question in my last post, who started all of this? You don't think it was the British when they occupied most of muslim territories? You don't think this had anything to do with the west taking a muslim country away and giving it to the Jews? We had nothing to do with 9/11 when it was our government that created Al Queda? If it helps you sleep at night ignore all this and call me a moron instead, I'm fine with it. But next time your country gets attacked again because you refuse to understand anything that goes on around you don't come bitching to me.

 

[No Limit]

I wasn't born into prosperity. Quite the opposite. But it's actually not that difficult to make something of yourself if you aren't a self-absorbed prick with a victim complex and an inflated sense of self-worth.

I need to add one last comment about this. You have absolutely no clue as to what the hell you are talking about. You think that because in your wonderful country you can suceed that must be true all around the globe. I guess all those people starving in Sudan or ethopia just need to get off their lazy asses and do something with their lives :dozey:. Same with those people that worked from dusk to dawn in 130 degree weather constructing a nice resort for the westerners, they are just lazy idiots that don't know how to better their own life.

This kind of shit comming from people that never had to actually starve themselves makes me sick, it really does.

 

[repiV]

So you still don't get it?

Why is it when we invade a country, or our "allies" invade a country it is always seen by people like you as self defense when those countries never actually attacked us. Your facts on everything are completely backwards. You are trying to imply these muslim countries are responsible for the weapons and training that the 9/11 attackers got when it was in fact the west that provided them those weapons and that training in the 80s. Back then they were our allies. You don't remember any of that?

You say Israel invaded lebanon as self defense. What exactly was accomplished by that killing of 1000 innocent civillians? There is absolutely no evidance what so ever that hezbollah used civillians as human shields, you are making shit up based off Israel propogenda.

Was it self defense when Israel shot on numerous occasions at red cross ambulances?

Was it self denfesne when they destroyed the lebanses infostructure such as roads and power plants so hospitals could not operate and the wounded could not be transported?

Was it self defense when they killed a bunch of children, said it was because hezbollah was firing rockets from there and then refused to release the videos that would have proved this?

How about Iraq, was that self defense when we invaded them? Self defense from what?

I really don't understand people like you, you seem to think that any killing done in your name is always justified no matter how many facts there are that prove other wise. Yet when those bloody muslims attack us without the backing of any actualy government (other than our own) its called terrorism. So I'll repeat myself, I can not understand how people like you can not comprehand why most muslims, muslims that were never extreme, hate you so much. How do you not see how it is your own policies that are creating these extremists. You didn't answer my main question in my last post, who started all of this? You don't think it was the British when they occupied most of muslim territories? You don't think this had anything to do with the west taking a muslim country away and giving it to the Jews? We had nothing to do with 9/11 when it was our government that created Al Queda? If it helps you sleep at night ignore all this and call me a moron instead, I'm fine with it. But next time your country gets attacked again because you refuse to understand anything that goes on around you don't come bitching to me.

You're a hopeless idiot, and I refuse to continue feeding you the opportunity to rewrite reality and history. And I never said I was in support of the Iraq war - quite the opposite actually. Doesn't mean I give a flying **** about Iraq, though.

 

[repiV]

I need to add one last comment about this. You have absolutely no clue as to what the hell you are talking about. You think that because in your wonderful country you can suceed that must be true all around the globe. I guess all those people starving in Sudan or ethopia just need to get off their lazy asses and do something with their lives :dozey:. Same with those people that worked from dusk to dawn in 130 degree weather constructing a nice resort for the westerners, they are just lazy idiots that don't know how to better their own life.

This kind of shit comming from people that never had to actually starve themselves makes me sick, it really does.

Then feel sick. Your brand of immature, narrow-minded, self-depreciating white shame and terrorist apologism makes me sick too. Isn't it wonderful that, unlike some, we live in a free society where I can offend anti-Western idiots like you at will?

 

[No Limit]

Like I said, call me an idiot or simply ignore me if that helps you sleep at night. Facts are facts, your arrogance to them wont change that. Have a nice day, I'm sure your going to in your perfect, close minded, world.

 

[Gray Fox]

Israel is a country founded on land stolen from the Palestinians by the Jews, and in fact the Palestinians learned from them that terrorism works. The King David hotel bombing in 1946 was the first act of modern terrorism in history. Since the British left Israel has steadily taken more and more land from the Palestinians. The aggression against Israel is nothing more then a logical outcome of it's aggressive expansion en violence against the original population.

 

[No Limit]

Israel is a country founded on land stolen from the Palestinians by the Jews, and in fact the Palestinians learned from them that terrorism works. The King David hotel bombing in 1946 was the first act of modern terrorism in history. Since the British left Israel has steadily taken more and more land from the Palestinians. The aggression against Israel is nothing more then a logical outcome of it's aggressive expansion en violence against the original population.

Whatever you terrorist loving douche!

:cheers:

I don't understand people like repi. The evidance of the continued unprovoked aggression by Israel and other western countries is out there. Yet for some reason they find it easier to just call anyone that mentions this a terrorist apologist instead of actually trying to stop this. And then they wonder why everyone has a problem with them. I blame the media.

 

[repiV]

Israel is a country founded on land stolen from the Palestinians by the Jews, and in fact the Palestinians learned from them that terrorism works. The King David hotel bombing in 1946 was the first act of modern terrorism in history. Since the British left Israel has steadily taken more and more land from the Palestinians. The aggression against Israel is nothing more then a logical outcome of it's aggressive expansion en violence against the original population.

Mmmhmm. Israel was not founded on land stolen by Jews, it was founded on land granted by Brits. Furthermore, the land area of Israel is absolutely tiny and non-Jews are free to live rich and full lives there.
"Steadily taken more and more land" is the politically correct term for defending territory used to launch attacks on Israel from...in fact, whenever Israel has given land away in the interests of peace, the Palestinians have then moved in and launched rocket attacks on Israeli cities. **** the lot of them.

 

[No Limit]

And where did the British get that land from?

non-Jews are free to live rich and full lives there
....

**** the lot of them

You really are arrogant, you can only see the world through your deluted eyes. I guess its true what they say, ignorance is bliss.