I knew it alll along :P

[repiV]

Whatever you terrorist loving douche!

:cheers:

I don't understand people like repi. The evidance of the continued unprovoked aggression by Israel and other western countries is out there. Yet for some reason they find it easier to just call anyone that mentions this a terrorist apologist instead of actually trying to stop this. And then they wonder why everyone has a problem with them. I blame the media.

Even if it was unprovoked, which it isn't - Palestinians don't want to live in peace with their land, they want to destroy Israel. The evidence is certainly there for that.
Even if it was, that doesn't excuse suicide bombings, firing rockets at civilian targets, using goodwill gestures by Israel to move in and attack civilians, using human shields and other acts of terrorism.
Any legitimate claim they may have once had is invalidated by the barbaric way they conduct themselves, not to mention that Israel is now a successful developed nation that puts the entire region to shame. At least Israel contributes something to mankind. Like I said, **** the lot of them.

 

[No Limit]

So now you want to have a real discussion about this or are you just going to keep calling me an idiot or a terrorist apologist?

Let me know, I would love to continue this and I promise I'll listen to waht you have to say but I wont waste my time if you wont listen to me.

 

[repiV]

So now you want to have a real discussion about this or are you just going to keep calling me an idiot or a terrorist apologist?

Let me know, I would love to continue this and I promise I'll listen to waht you have to say but I wont waste my time if you wont listen to me.

Not really. I was mainly talking to Gray Fox.

 

[No Limit]

Ok cool, like I said enjoy your simple little perfect world where everything is black or it is white. Meanwhile people continue to die in your name while you continue to think everything is just peachy.

 

[repiV]

Ok cool, like I said enjoy your simple little perfect world where everything is black or it is white. Meanwhile people continue to die in your name while you continue to think everything is just peachy.

I don't think everything is peachy, that's the point. Life is tough, cruel and unfair. No use whining about it like a screeching harpy and blaming the failures of shitty Muslim countries on the West because we happen to be a whole lot more successful. We enjoy the prosperity and freedom we do because our society is infinitely superior, not because we're oppressing the Muslims or some other hippie revisionist bullshit.
Just because I don't cry myself to sleep over dead Muslims doesn't mean I live in a simple little perfect world, it either means I don't care or I think they deserve it, depending on who you're talking about. I've got more important things to worry about.
Don't like it? Tough. At least my moral code is consistent.

 

[No Limit]

Just because I don't cry myself to sleep over dead Muslims doesn't mean I live in a simple little perfect world, it either means I don't care or I think they deserve it, depending on who you're talking about. I've got more important things to worry about.

And again, you wonder why they hate you enough to blow them self up in the process of killing you. While your government supports the killing of innocent muslims you have the nerve to say you don't care or worse yet you have the decency to say they deserve it.

I guess if it was your family killed by an Isralei bomb you'd feel different.

 

[repiV]

And again, you wonder why they hate you enough to blow them self up in the process of killing you.

Why do you keep putting words in my mouth?
You tried this "you wonder why they hate you..." nonsense earlier, and I explicitly stated that I don't care if they hate me or not. My only concern is that their barbaric, violent and ignorant ways do not affect us.
Nice one taking the side of suicide bombers though. You're a real piece of shit.

While your government supports the killing of innocent muslims you have the nerve to say you don't care or worse yet you have the decency to say they deserve it.

What killing of innocent Muslims is that?
Please show me the policy that says the UK endorses the killing of innocent Muslims.
Although, with your endorsement of Islamic terrorism, your moral code seems to swing from one extreme to the other depending on who is being killed.

I guess if it was your family killed by an Isralei bomb you'd feel different.

Newsflash: civilians die in war. The difference is, Israeli and Western civilians are intentionally targeted, and Muslim civilians are killed by accident (or intentionally by other Muslims).

Also, I'm assuming that you would feel differently if your family was killed by a Palestinian suicide bomber?

I will never, ever understand hardcore Islamic apologists like yourself. You twist the truth and endorse despicable acts of terrorism on their behalf and invent the same on our behalf, then demonstrate outrage at these fictional barbaric acts we don't commit whilst in the same breath excusing the very real atrocities committed by Muslims.
If you hate the West so much, why don't you **** off to Iran or Syria? Wonder how long you'd survive before having your throat cut.

 

[No Limit]

Yeah, becasue I point out that we have killed thousands of innocent civillians for no apperant reason I am the bad guy and you are the saint.

I already showed you examples of how Israel, a country you support, has killed innocent people for no apperant reason at all. You didn't dispute any of it, I believe your response instead was somewhere along the lines of "I'm going to plug my ears and not listen to you, idiot".

So let me see if I can repeat some of this. Last summer during their offensive into lebanon Israel continually shot at unarmed red cross ambulances.

They warned UN peace keepers that if they went in there they would be shot at, something that actually happened.

I pointed out iraq, just because you don't agree with that war doesn't change the fact that your country is a large part of it and it was certainly the main driving force, along with the US, to actually mislead us into it.

I have to get back to work, reread my other post for examples. But you are no less barbaric then those pesky muslims.

 

[Absinthe]

Guess what, guys?

Both Palestine and Israel are ****ed up.

 

[repiV]

Yeah, becasue I point out that we have killed thousands of innocent civillians for no apperant reason I am the bad guy and you are the saint.

We don't target innocent civilians. If you can't make the distinction between targeting innocent civilians and killing them accidentally, there is something very wrong with you.

I already showed you examples of how Israel, a country you support, has killed innocent people for no apperant reason at all. You didn't dispute any of it, I believe your response instead was somewhere along the lines of "I'm going to plug my ears and not listen to you, idiot".

I didn't dispute any of it because your post was a factually incorrect load of bollocks, wrapped up in your inimitable pretentious holier-than-thou know-it-all style.

So let me see if I can repeat some of this. Last summer during their offensive into lebanon Israel continually shot at unarmed red cross ambulances.

Prove it.

They warned UN peace keepers that if they went in there they would be shot at, something that actually happened.

Can you blame them? Israel is the target of irrational hatred the world over - the world watches and sympathises while they are besieged on all fronts by terrorists, gives them hell when they dare to retaliate and blames them for deaths caused by their enemies. Put in the same position, I would tell UN peacekeepers representing that extremely one-sided and worthless organisation to **** off too.

I pointed out iraq, just because you don't agree with that war doesn't change the fact that your country is a large part of it and it was certainly the main driving force, along with the US, to actually mislead us into it.

I have to get back to work, reread my other post for examples. But you are no less barbaric then those pesky muslims.

Bullshit.
Now explain your shit about supporting suicide bombings against the West and give me an example of where we have intentionally killed civilians.

 

[repiV]

Guess what, guys?

Both Palestine and Israel are ****ed up.

That's not the point - his total hypocrisy and historical revisionism is.

 

[No Limit]

Guess what, guys?

Both Palestine and Israel are ****ed up.

And in no way do I disagree with that.

But what pisses me off is people like him will say they are bad we are good. When they kill its terrorism, when Israel kills with our complete support its self defense. I don't know about you guys but this kind of disregard for human life really upsets me.

 

[repiV]

And in no way do I disagree with that.

But what pisses me off is people like him will say they are bad we are good. When they kill its terrorism, when Israel kills with our complete support its self defense. I don't know about you guys but this kind of disregard for human life really upsets me.

Yes, it's terrorism because they target innocent civilians. How ****ing hard is that to understand?
And isn't this lecture about disregard for human life extremely hollow in light of your sympathies for Islamic terrorists?

 

[No Limit]

I think I am done with this, you just defended Israel killing innocent UN peace keepers. What the **** is wrong with you dude?

By the way:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1828142,00.html

I'm sure you are ok with that too, so whats the point of continuing this discussion.

 

[repiV]

I think I am done with this, you just defended Israel killing innocent UN peace keepers. What the **** is wrong with you dude?

First of all, I didn't say that. I said, can you blame them?
Secondly, UN peacekeepers are part of an armed force and therefore not innocent.

By the way:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1828142,00.html

I'm sure you are ok with that too, so whats the point of continuing this discussion.

Uh-huh, and please show me exactly where it states they intended to target the ambulances?

 

[No Limit]

First of all, I didn't say that. I said, can you blame them?
Secondly, UN peacekeepers are part of an armed force and therefore not innocent.

Oh..my...****ing...god.

Uh-huh, and please show me exactly where it states they intended to target the ambulances?

Yeah, they fired 2 seperate missles at an amublance with the lights falshing and it was an accident.

You, you especially, are no better than the people that flew those planes into our buildings on 9/11.

 

[Gray Fox]

Guess what, guys?

Both Palestine and Israel are ****ed up.

That can be said for any side in any war. The allies did some pretty ****ed up stuff in WW 2, but that still does not mean that the ultimate blame does not lie with Germany. You can do a lot better then a cheap cop out.

 

[repiV]

Oh..my...****ing...god.

Ok...have anything constructive to add?

Yeah, they fired 2 seperate missles at an amublance with the lights falshing and it was an accident.

Stranger things have happened. What the **** would you know about accurately identifying targets from a fighter jet?
All you are doing is making an assumption regarding a single isolated incident yet in the face of repeated genuine atrocities by Islamic terrorists, you either say nothing or take their side. What the **** is wrong with you?

You, you especially, are no better than the people that flew those planes into our buildings on 9/11.

Um, sure. I take the side of the people who don't suicide bomb civilians, oppress their women and behead their prisoners and that makes me as bad as the Muslim terrorists you supported a moment ago. I'm still waiting on you to explain your support for suicide bombers and give an example of where we have intentionally targeted civilians. Stop with the hysterical screeching harpy shit and explain yourself.

 

[Sulkdodds]

Newsflash: civilians die in war. The difference is, Israeli and Western civilians are intentionally targeted, and Muslim civilians are killed by accident (or intentionally by other Muslims).

I don't wish to intrude unduly into this argument, but I would not call bombing Lebanon and killing many times as many civilians as armed insurgents - for example - 'accidental'.

Hey look, a man with a gun in a crowded square. BOMB THE SQUARE.

At the very best, that's criminal negligence. The Israeli government knew there was a serious risk of much death when they invaded Lebanon, and they did it anyway. On a smaller scale, that'd get you a manslaughter conviction.

This 'one side defends itself, the other attacks' stuff simply isn't true. Even if the Israeli government never ever deliberately kills civilians (my arse) it takes and has been taking action for the last fifteen years that knowingly causes destruction and horror. They are not purely defensive either; until very recently they actively condoned the forced seizure of property and land by violent settlers. I'm sure you can find plenty else.

Saying that "Israeli and Western civilians are intentionally targeted, and Muslim civilians are killed by accident (or intentionally by other Muslims)" is incredibly simplistic and almost certainly completely untrue.

I haven't read any of No Limit's posts because I can't be bothered. I'm sure he's being very silly. You go girl etc. I just wanted to point this out.

Also, muslim 'terrorist' groups are totally terrorists. SENSIBLE DEFINITION OF TERRORISM. The Israeli military are not terrorists, but this doesn't diminish their moral culpability.

 

[repiV]

I don't wish to intrude unduly into this argument, but I would not call bombing Lebanon and killing many times as many civilians as you kill armed insurgents 'accidental'.

Hey look, a man with a gun in a crowded square. BOMB THE SQUARE.

At the very best, that's criminal negligence. The Israeli government knew there was a serious risk of much death when they invaded Lebanon, and they did it anyway. On a smaller scale, that'd get you a manslaughter conviction.

There's always a serious risk of much death when people go to war. More civilians died in WW2 than soldiers, by far. What do you expect them to do - just sit there while Hezbollah indiscriminately fire rockets at Israeli citizens from their hidey holes in Lebanon?
You can't just expect them to endure constant attacks on their citizens without retaliating.
Sure, Israel could perhaps have been a little more careful in how they dealt with the situation, but the ultimate blame still lies with Hezbollah for embedding themselves in the civilian population in the first place. They willingly used civilians as human shields so that Israel's reputation would suffer greatly when retaliating, thus ensuring a moral victory for Hezbollah. The moral imperative lies with the terrorists for putting Israel in that position, not with Israel for fighting back.

This 'one side defends itself, the other attacks' stuff simply isn't true. Even if the Israeli government never ever deliberately kills civilians (my arse) it takes and has been taking action for the last fifteen years that knowingly causes destruction and horror. They are not purely defensive either; until very recently they actively condoned the forced seizure of property and land by violent settlers. I'm sure you can find plenty else.

The best defence is a strong offence. I'm not saying Israel are saints, but then no nation-state is. They're a damn sight more civilised and more moral than their opponents, that's for sure. They're dealing with enemies all around them that cannot be reasoned with and who want nothing more than to see them wiped off the map - what would you do, faced with such a situation?

Saying that "Israeli and Western civilians are intentionally targeted, and Muslim civilians are killed by accident (or intentionally by other Muslims)" is incredibly simplistic and almost certainly completely untrue.

Not really - show me an example of our forces attacking civilians on purpose.

I haven't read any of No Limit's posts because I can't be bothered. I'm sure he's being very silly.

And Palestinian terrorists are totally terrorists. SENSIBLE DEFINITION OF TERRORISM. The Israeli military are not terrorists, but this doesn't diminish their moral culpability.

Like I said, Israel could be more responsible in how they handle things, but they are nowhere, nowhere near as bad as their enemies, and their hand is often forced by the desperate situation they are in.

 

[The Monkey]

He doesn't even got the facts straight: Bosnia and Albania aren't members of the EU.

 

[No Limit]

Sulkdodds instead of saying you're sure what I wrote is silly try actually haivng a discussion with me some time. I don't mind you attacking my opinions but if you are going to do that read what I say before you do it, cool?

Anyway, you are trying to rationalize with a guy that says Israel has the right to kill UN peace keepers. You will get no where with this guy who will gladly piss on a human life if that human life is from an Islamic country.

 

[repiV]

Sulkdodds instead of saying you're sure what I wrote is silly try actually haivng a discussion with me some time. I don't mind you attacking my opinions but if you are going to do that read what I say before you do it, cool?

Anyway, you are trying to rationalize with a guy that says Israel has the right to kill UN peace keepers. You will get no where with this guy who will gladly piss on a human life if that human life is from an Islamic country.

First of all, I didn't say they have the right to kill UN peace keepers. I said can you blame them?
And you're being a hypocrite, as you don't seem to value the lives of those innocents killed by Islamic terrorists.

 

[No Limit]

No, you are being a jackass. No where above did I say what Islamic terrorists do is correct. I argued what causes them to do what they do, and its arrogant people like you that think in the 3rd world if you are getting a shitty pay you can just go get a better job, if you dont you are lazy.

And again, you just justified the killing of UN peace keepers. What the hell is wrong with you. "No, I'm not saying its right to kill UN peace keepers, I'm just saying you can't blame Israel for killing them". Do you honestly not see how ****ed up that statement is? Get yourself checked.

 

[Sulkdodds]

repiV, I would totally respond to your posts but I want to play WoW and Peep Show is on later so I don't have too long. So I'll do it later.

Sulkdodds instead of saying you're sure what I wrote is silly try actually haivng a discussion with me some time. I don't mind you attacking my opinions but if you are going to do that read what I say before you do it, cool?

My comment was partly sarcastic/mock-patronising, but the pieces of you quoted in repiV's posts that I read seemed generally to misconstrue or straw-man-ise his arguments. You just did it right there in the one I'm responding to! Maybe he's misrepresenting yours but I can't tell because I haven't read them, ho ho ho. Maybe I'll get round to a proper response when I have more time. Sorry.

 

[repiV]

No, you are being a jackass. No where above did I say what Islamic terrorists do is correct. I argued what causes them to do what they do, and its arrogant people like you that think in the 3rd world if you are getting a shitty pay you can just go get a better job, if you dont you are lazy.

And again, you just justified the killing of UN peace keepers. What the hell is wrong with you. "No, I'm not saying its right to kill UN peace keepers, I'm just saying you can't blame Israel for killing them". Do you honestly not see how ****ed up that statement is? Get yourself checked.

I'm surprised you can't see your own hypocrisy - or arrogance. You're a morally confused, condescending, patronising, arrogant twat with a superiority complex. That's why I'm being so unpleasant to you much moreso than your politics. You're probably one of those idiots that bitches about capitalism while sipping on your caffe latte from Starbucks. Sort yourself out.

 

[repiV]

repiV, I would totally respond to your posts but I want to play WoW and Peep Show is on later so I don't have too long. So I'll do it later.

That's cool. Enjoy.

 

[Sulkdodds]

PS: Can't help thinking No Limit's right, though. 'Who can blame them' is basically the same as 'they did nothing wrong'.

If they did something wrong, that implies culpability. Yes, I can blame them! It's totally shitty! And even if they didn't intend to, they still did it! In this modern age I find it difficult to believe that there are no more precautions they could have taken. I blame the American A-10 pilots who through their lack of care killed British servicemen.

EDIT: Ok really leaving now. Ahem.

 

[No Limit]

I would totally respond to your posts but I want to play WoW

NOOOOO! Don't do it man, WOW eats souls. Before you know it you'll be whoring your self for egold .

 

[Sidewinder]

wow,how can one justify Israelis killing UN troops?I mean seriouly does repiV think Israel has some kind of special license for killing other people without being provoked?

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

Quite wrong. I don't know where you get off saying that most Muslims are peace-loving people.

In 2002, the Pew Research Center did a survey in Islamic countries, ranging from what we consider to be extremist (Saudi Arabia) to moderate (Turkey). The question asked was "Is Suicide Bombing in the Defense of Islam Ever Justifiable?" There was overwhelming support in nearly every Islamic country. Even Turkey had a large significant portion of its population agreeing with it, even if only rarely.

It shouldn't happen rarely. It shouldn't happen period.

It is not a product of mental instability. It is a product of sincere belief. Mental instability entails a host of things. Not all terrorists are psychopaths. There is a method to the madness, and its roots lie in Islam. Just because you can't fathom the idea of people willing to die for a religious belief does not mean it doesn't exist. You have also apparently not read the bulk of my posts, so please do so. That should address your comparison to Christianity.

I get the idea from the fact that I know 8 people who are Muslims, and they have many other friends who are muslims, (and my parents have several friends who are muslims as well) and all the muslims I know are disgusted by these suicide bombers. Most of them are. I can easily believe that people are willing to die for their religous beliefs, there was a time when I would have done for Jehovah, but as I say, most are peace loving people, its only a minority who are fanatics.

 

[Nemesis6]

I do find this pretty disturbing. I wouldn't want to live in a place where Islam is the dominant religion, because wherever it is, death, poverty, and tyranny are just as dominant, if not more. If Man-whose-name-has-many-spellings turns out to be right, I would support the outlawing of Islam within the Western world.

By the way, Sidewinder, it's easy when you look at two facts of the matter: 1 - The Israelis didn't target the U.N deliberately. 2 - HizbAllah was using the post as a mortar site.

By the way 2 - A flash movie with a hypothetical theme like this has been made, only the Muslim world directly attacks: http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/268252

 

[DEATHMASTER]

I find it disturbing, but nothing to do beyond wait for resources to run out, then its every man for himself.

 

[No Limit]

By the way, Sidewinder, it's easy when you look at two facts of the matter: 1 - The Israelis didn't target the U.N deliberately. 2 - HizbAllah was using the post as a mortar site.

1 - The UN post was clearly marked. The UN specifically requested from Israel that they do not target this perticular site. This could not have been an accident.

2 - Most of the bombing occured in Beirut, way too far away from the Israel border. So what exactly was hezbollah targeting that far away from the border, Lebanon? This had nothing to do with Hezbollah launching rockets.

 

[Nemesis6]

1 - It could very well be an accident, and it was: http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1153292028882&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull

2 - Have you seen the videos? They actually put their Qassam launchers on the roofs of downtown houses. And then there's also the example of them actually following civilians fleeing from a launching site to intentionally cause civilian deaths. There's also the incident where they actually forcefully kept people from leaving a launch site.

 

[No Limit]

1 - It could very well be an accident, and it was: http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1153292028882&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull

The Jerusalem post, what a fair and unbiased source :angel:.

Lets just assume all that is 100% accurate and that the UN observers made many complaints that their area was surrounded by Hezbollah. Why did the Israelis not inform the UN of what was going to happen to give the UN time to get out of that position?

2 - Have you seen the videos? They actually put their Qassam launchers on the roofs of downtown houses. And then there's also the example of them actually following civilians fleeing from a launching site to intentionally cause civilian deaths. There's also the incident where they actually forcefully kept people from leaving a launch site.

You want to show me those videos?

And, why, when they bombed a building mostly filled with children did they not release the video that proved Hezbollah was launching rockets from there?

And again, where were those rockets being laucnhed to? They were in beirut, not a single hezbollah rocket could reach Israel from that far.