I need your oppinion helplife.net.. again.

[Colonel Kernel]

So, I was building my father's friend a website and had just finished it, when I noticed something - testing the site on our second computer proved that the font had changed. Odd.
I figured it out, It was the IE View>Text size option that was bugging me - on my PC it was set to 'Largest' and the other computer was on 'Medium'.

So, my question is, is there any HTML tag I can use that will overrule any user attempt to change the text size through the View>Text size command and still let me define a default value?

 

[Druckles]

You do not want to do this. The ability to change the text size allows for accessibility. Particularly for people who find it harder to read or see.

It would be better if you could adjust your website to allow for the changing of the font size. The measurement 'em' was designed for this, as it's a relative measurement, rather than your absolute 'px'.

 

[Colonel Kernel]

Yeah, that's what I was thinking, too. I asked because I wanted to know if what my father is telling me is more appropriate. In fact, every IE browser out there is by default on 'Medium" size, and all I need to do is adjust the site text size to look good on 'Medium'.

I also strongly believe most users out there haven't even heard of the text sizing option in IE, let alone touch it. But I also think that if they've messed with it and the site doesn't look good on their end, they could just return to the 'Medium' option.

 

[Druckles]

Yes. That would be the best option for now. Some users will have altered their text settings, most often by accident. But in future, it may be worth adjusting your site to accommodate.

 

[Barnz]

Source Mods, Editing & Development > Help Wanted & Offered
just saying

 

[Druckles]

Source Mods, Editing & Development > Help Wanted & Offered
just saying

I was content that it wasn't in the Lounge.

 

[Colonel Kernel]

Source Mods, Editing & Development > Help Wanted & Offered
just saying

General Editing?

But anyways, as a second option - what tag could I put to lock the text content as-is i.e. at it's designed state?

Edit: Why does my site look like horse shit when viewed from Opera? And Firefox? What should I do to fix this annoying problem that's making the site elements look like they're purposely displaced? It's all fine in IE.

 

[Druckles]

General Editing?

But anyways, as a second option - what tag could I put to lock the text content as-is i.e. at it's designed state?

I don't think you can. Tbh, I'm not sure why you're talking about 'tags'. Are you referring to html tags? And are you attempting to style your document in HTML with font tags and attributes on the elements themselves? Are you using CSS at all?

Edit: Why does my site look like horse shit when viewed from Opera? And Firefox? What should I do to fix this annoying problem that's making the site elements look like they're purposely displaced? It's all fine in IE.

Welcome to browser incompatibility. I've spent months trying to make sites look identical in all browsers. Sometimes you'll get lucky and it'll look mostly the same, but more often than not, you'll find your site looks like &*$@ in Internet Explorer.

Most people design their websites in Firefox, Chrome or even Opera, because they comply to standards set out by the W3 Consortium. This makes them easy to implement your site in, because they're predictable, and do what you expect. Unfortunately, Internet Explorer has spent the past 10 years sitting on its hands on saying "Oo, it doesn't work, let's pretend it does while still force-feeding it to our customers". The result is millions of people with a shitty internet browser and thousands of frustrated developers, trying to make it work just for them.

If you're using CSS (and not using tables), then you'll have to change your stylesheet so it works by not using certain features that aren't supported in some browsers or by the W3 standards at all. This can be tricky, but you'll find plenty of help on the web if you use the right keywords.

If you're not using CSS and/or you are using tables, then start again, you're doing it wrong.

Edit: If you'd like some help, give me a PM or hit me up on Steam.

 

[FishBulb]

Help Wanted & Offered is more about Source mod projects. This should really be in the Hardware and Software subforum, which gets more attention from our more technically inclined regulars. So... voila!

 

[No Limit]

^ What Druckles said.

There is no HTML tag to overwrite the browser's zoom setting (im sure FF has this setting too, its used as a accessability feature). And browser incompatibility is a standard thing that is a total pain in the ass mostly caused by IE6 and IE7. But you NEVER want to ignroe this as a majority of users use some form of IE6 or IE7. You will want to preview your coding in firefox and internet explorer 7 and even IE 6. IE6 can be tested using multiple-ie if you have windows XP, otherwise this will work but is slow:

http://browsershots.org/ (edit: unless I'm totally out of it this doesn't have IE6 any more, I just used it not too long ago)

If you have IE8 and want to preview the design on IE7 just enable compatability mode.

Alot of issues found in IE6 and IE7 can be fixed by making sure all your element size settings are set. If you continue to have issues post or pm your code and I can take a look.

 

[Vegeta897]

I use IETester for testing on 6 7 8 etc.
http://www.softpedia.com/progDownload/IETester-Download-101019.html

The first website I made from the ground up looks identical in all browsers, and is totally WC3 validated, so I feel pretty proud of that.

 

[Neutrino]

Just make sure to test your site in every browser at regular intervals as you build it.

And I concur, IE is a royal pain. It's always the one that gives me the most problems. For layout issues you can google IE hacks or the like to find some work-arounds for some of the common issues.

 

[Colonel Kernel]

I don't think you can. Tbh, I'm not sure why you're talking about 'tags'. Are you referring to html tags? And are you attempting to style your document in HTML with font tags and attributes on the elements themselves? Are you using CSS at all?

I was referring to the HTML tags that I've seen on websites that deny IE users from the possibility to use the View>Text size command. Yes, I am using CSS to form up the pages.

Basically the page I've made uses a Chrome menu I've picked up from DynamicDrive that "says" It's supported by Opera, Firefox and IE, but as I've tweaked with it, something might have changed.
I expanded all the drop downs to be used as text info fields that show up when hovered over the corresponding menu item, as the site background is a slideshow and I want it to be vissible at all times except when the user views information.
The problem in Opera/Firefox is that the menu is slightly displaced to the right and looks to be longer that it was designed, plus the site logo at the top-center looks to be very low quality and the other elements are displaced, too. Click

I'm using Front Page, Is this really the best program I can use?

 

[No Limit]

So you aren't writing your own code, you are using Front page? Front page was never a good program for good cross browser compatible code to begin with, these days it is extremely outdated.

My suggestion is you don't use a WYSIWYG program at all, learn to code by hand. Crimson editor is a perfectly good program to use for that to start off with.

Without seeing your HTML code I can't really comment on what is happening in your screenshot. Looks like the element holding the wordart logo might not have its dimensions set properly and/or it might not be set to "display: block".

 

[Druckles]

I was referring to the HTML tags that I've seen on websites that deny IE users from the possibility to use the View>Text size command.

I've not seen them before, sorry.

Basically the page I've made uses a Chrome menu I've picked up from DynamicDrive that "says" It's supported by Opera, Firefox and IE, but as I've tweaked with it, something might have changed.

Most likely. I personally don't like working with off-the-shelf stuff like this. OpenCube is a similar menu application which is entirely customisable. Unfortunately, I don't think it's quite free.

From the look of your screenshot, it's a CSS problem, but it could be anywhere. Without playing with the code, looking at it and trimming it down, it'd be hard to debug. I tend to go back to something that was working and work upwards from that.

I'm using Front Page, Is this really the best program I can use?

Nope. Fancy getting your hands dirty? It's trickier at first, but you understand your websites, get quicker as time goes on, and your website is far more stable.

Just find a decent editor and a set of good tutorials and you're all set to go.

 

[Colonel Kernel]

Thank you very much guys!

I'm thinking to start off as you have suggested, throwing this site in the bin and starting from scratch.
About the source code, here. The site originally was in Bulgarian. This is the English translation :

<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">

<head>
<meta **********="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=windows-1251">
<meta **********="Content-Language" content="bg">
<link  href="index_uk_files/filelist.xml">
<link  type="text/css" href="chrometheme/chromestyle.css" />

<script type="text/javascript" src="chromejs/chrome.js">

/***********************************************
* Chrome CSS Drop Down Menu- (c) Dynamic Drive DHTML code library ([url]www.dynamicdrive.com[/url])
* This notice MUST stay intact for legal use
* Visit Dynamic Drive at [url]http://www.dynamicdrive.com/[/url] for full source code
***********************************************/

</script>


<title>Korado Ltd.</title>

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// Set speed (milliseconds)
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// Specify the image files
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Pic[0] = 'background_images_small/za_nas_slide1.jpg'
Pic[1] = 'background_images_small/za_nas_slide2.jpg'
Pic[2] = 'background_images_small/za_nas_slide3.jpg'
Pic[3] = 'background_images_small/za_nas_slide4.jpg'
Pic[4] = 'background_images_small/za_nas_slide5.jpg'

// =======================================
// do not edit anything below this line
// =======================================

var t
var j = 0
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var preLoad = new Array()
for (i = 0; i < p; i++){
   preLoad[i] = new Image()
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}

function runBGSlideShow(){
   if (document.body){
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  <v:f eqn="sum 21600 0 @0"/>
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height=79 src="index_uk4_files/image007.gif"  v:shapes="_x0000_s1038"></span><![endif]>[SIZE=4]About[/SIZE][/url]</li>
[*][url=#" lang="bg][SIZE=4]Products[/SIZE][/url]
[*][url=#" lang="bg][SIZE=4]Service[/SIZE][/url]
[*][url=#" lang="bg][SIZE=4]Contact[/SIZE][/url]	
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<!--1st drop down menu (?? ???) -->                                                
<div id="dropmenu1" lang="bg"   >
[br]</br>
[b]<pre><font align= "justify" size= "3" face= "arial" color= "#FFFFFF">[center]	The company Korado Ltd was founded in 1998 with a 100% private[/center] 
         capital and has started manufacturing paddings for official shirts and coats.
  [center] In 2000 the company has invested in machines for the manufacturing of free-time clothes[br]
  from knitted fabrics. In 2002 the company occupies in mechanized embroidery, buying[br] 
  professional ebroidery machines and later - expanding its[br] 
  machine park in the tailoring workshop.</font>[/center]</pre>[/b]   
[br]
</div>

<!--2nd drop down menu (????????) -->                                                   
<div id="dropmenu2"  >
<a><font size= "3" color= "#FFFFFF"><pre><font size= "3" face= "arial"> Shoulder padings and wicks</pre></font>[/url]<a><font size= "3" color= "#FFFFFF"><pre><font size= "3" face= "arial"> Free-time clothes</pre></font>[/url]<a><font size= "3" color= "#FFFFFF"><pre><font size= "3" face= "arial"> Worker clothing</pre></font>[/url]<a><font size= "3" color= "#FFFFFF"><pre><font size= "3" face= "arial"> Crystals and crystal shapes</pre></font>[/url]</div><!--3rd drop down menu (??????) --><div id="dropmenu3"  >

<a><pre><font color= "#FFFFFF" size= "4" face= "arial"> Work done with customer-suplied materials</font></pre><pre><font color= "#FFFFFF" size= "3" face= "arial"> The company executes orders
 for work done with customer-supplied materials,
 manufacturing skirts, trousers and blouses.</font></pre>[/url]<a><pre><font color= "#FFFFFF" size= "4" face= "arial"> Mechanized embroidery</font>[br]
<font color= "#FFFFFF" size= "3" face= "arial"> The company has two available Tajima machines,
 offering short dead-lines with your own program,
 or manufacturing programs by customer
 requests. We also offer sampling
 until specifying your requirenments.</font></pre>[/url]<a><pre><font color= "#FFFFFF" size= "4" face= "arial"> Fine printing</font>[br]
<font color= "#FFFFFF" size= "3" face= "arial"> The company has two MNM machines available, with
 6 colors, also offering short dead-lines.</font></pre>[/url]</div><!--4th drop down menu (?? ????????) --><div id="dropmenu4" lang="bg"   >
[br]</br>[br]</br>
[center]<font face= "arial" size= "4" color= "#FFFFFF">[b]Korado Ltd</font>[br]</br>[/center]

 <pre><font face= "arial" size= "3" color="#FFFFFF"> Bulgaria</font></pre><pre><font face= "arial" size= "3" color="#FFFFFF"> Shumen</font></pre><pre><font face= "arial" size= "3" color="#FFFFFF"> N. Vaptsarov St. No: 6 - fl. 6 app. 17</font></pre><pre><font face= "arial" size= "3" color="#FFFFFF"> mobile: +35954830964</font></pre><pre><font face= "arial" size= "3" color="#FFFFFF"> Fax: +35954831055</font></pre><pre><font face= "arial" size= "3" color="#FFFFFF"> Email: [email][email protected][/email]</font></pre>[br][/b]
</div>




<script type="text/javascript">

cssdropdown.startchrome("chromemenu")

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<p></p>
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<![if !mso]><![endif]><p></p>
<p></p>

</body>

</html>

Yes, I know - it's all a bunch of messed up code. I really don't understand why Front Page adds it's own commands such as the "" one, and the program really messes up the code if I'm not writing it by hand. This site is a combination of both - WYSIWYG and hand coding, mixed together to form a lovely mess!

 

[No Limit]

Yeah, I wouldn't even know where to being. You are best just starting from scratch using a simply text editor.

If you must use front page (you don't) you are better off sticking with tables for the design.

 

[Colonel Kernel]

So I can contact you if something goes wrong later on, would that be OK?

 

[No Limit]

That would be fine, I'm just not making any promises on how fast I'll get back to you. But what you are doing will be very simple with CSS. Just 2 Divs centered. One for the logo and one for the navigation.

 

[Druckles]

I'm thinking to start off as you have suggested, throwing this site in the bin and starting from scratch.
About the source code, here. The site originally was in Bulgarian. This is the English translation:

It would be very nice of you if you put that in CODE tags rather than QUOTE tags.

I really don't understand why Front Page adds it's own commands such as the "" one, and the program really messes up the code if I'm not writing it by hand. This site is a combination of both - WYSIWYG and hand coding, mixed together to form a lovely mess!

The is a space character. HTML, when read, will ignore all white space characters in a row and replace them with a single space. Thus " bob bobby

boo bill" will be seen as "bob bobby boo bill" in a HTML document. The reason is because the tags are there to describe how the document is laid out, not the spaces in your text. This is annoying at first, but useful once you get used to it.

The reason Front Page puts it in is because a single white space character on its own between two tags will be completely ignored by the browser. Some tags don't display if there isn't anything in them, so Front Page will put the as a placeholder. If you put multiple spaces in, it will also use that to force the HTML parser to output multiple spaces. You're essentially forcing it to put a space.

WYSIWYG editors have to interpret what you're telling them. As most people tell it what they want but don't know how it's supposed to be done, or the restrictions on HTML/CSS, the editors job is incredibly hard, forming this horrible mess of unnecessary tags and extra script.

So I can contact you if something goes wrong later on, would that be OK?

You're more than welcome to add me on Steam and ask.

 

[Colonel Kernel]

But I've noticed that spaces do not show when you type them in a paragraph, for example if you try to center something with just spaces, it doesn't work. Or, am I doing it completely wrong? I was using the <pre> tag around the text and multiple spaces to work around it, but I'm not quite sure if this is correct. Yes, I know - text is supposed to be centered with the <center> tag, it was just an example.

So, all that messed up code is Front Page's interpretation? Because I know It was created using the program's WYSIWYG option, not hand coded.

 

[Druckles]

But I've noticed that spaces do not show when you type them in a paragraph, for example if you try to center something with just spaces, it doesn't work. Or, am I doing it completely wrong? I was using the <pre> tag around the text and multiple spaces to work around it, but I'm not quite sure if this is correct. Yes, I know - text is supposed to be centered with the <center> tag, it was just an example.

That's right. You can put as many spaces as you want and the browser will ignore all of them but one (or probably all of them if there's nothing before them, I think). If you use the instead of actual spaces, then it should 'work'.

By the by, you shouldn't use <center>. Or any other HTML tag or attribute that styles or positions your code. HTML is a description language, meaning it should only be used to describe what a particular object is. For example

<p>Here is some text</p>

is stating that the text above is a paragraph.

<a>This is a link[/url]

states that it's a link.

Obviously you know this, but that's all it should be doing. There should be no ". You should use CSS (a separate stylesheet preferably) to do this. The only HTML attributes you should really be using is ". The article I linked on XHTML should tell you more.

So, all that messed up code is Front Page's interpretation? Because I know It was created using the program's WYSIWYG option, not hand coded.

Kinda.