ID Cards

[Solaris]

The government has staved off a backbench rebellion to reverse changes imposed on the controversial ID Cards Bill by peers.

Only 20 Labour MPs voted against the government, and the bill - opposed by the Tories and the Liberal Democrats - was passed by a majority of 31. ​

MPs also voted to force people to get cards when they apply for passports. ​

And a government compromise of agreeing to new legislation before ID cards are made compulsory was backed.​

​

source

So the ID cards will be introduced in 2 years (UK) and you will have to apply for one if you want a passport.

So if we want the right to proove we are UK citizens we have to submit our DNA and other bio-metric information to be put on a state controlled database.

I'm really angry about this, I don't exist by the states permission, it has no right to ask for my DNA and such without me committing any crime.

The Government FTL

 

[clarky003]

I agree , the biometric and DNA list will need further legislation to introduce.

But I cant see the benefit's outweighing the sheer amount the scheme is going to cost. Its actually obsurd, terrorism is a tiny percentage of crime in this country next to car death's, robbery's and gun crime, yet this seems to be the primary motivator for the scheme. As for identity and credit theft, the present introduction of chip and pin alone is doing a great job, I just cant help but feel the MP's dont represent the largly negative view of the british public.

It's a precursor that could lead to a big brother like country, if its not treated carefully.

and on a second note, for drastic legislations like this that immediately effect everyone they should atleast consider opening polls to the public, like in an election.

 

[Solaris]

I agree , the biometric and DNA list will need further legislation to introduce.

But I cant see the benefit's outweighing the sheer amount the scheme is going to cost, Its obsurd, terrorism is a tiny percentage of crime in this country next to car death's, robbery's and gun crime, yet this seems to be the primary motivator for the scheme.. I cant help but feel the MP's dont represent the largly negative view of the british public

What terrorism?
One attack from Al-quada, The IRA are no longer a threat, why not use the money to stop terrorists by stoping invading countries and creating terrorism, oh wait that wouldn't cost us anything and it would actually save us billions.

 

[ComradeBadger]

I don't like this at all.

:|

 

[VictimOfScience]

Geez, that does sound pretty nasty. Glad we aren't the only ones with such raving idiots in power who want to have absolute control over us using fear.

Here's a link to a great little article by a professor at Boise State University in the US about national ID cards and such. Accoring to the author, her modest proposal "illustrates how incremental incursions on liberty can lead to dramatic losses of privacy over time." Pretty interesting read, espcially given that it is 4 years old and look at us all now!

 

[gick]

Oooh, this is bad. I honestly cant see why this has been passed? It'll cost shitloads and so us no good at all.

People will let their government do anything when they're scared.

 

[Yuri]

Ugh. Sorry to hear that, dude.

 

[gick]

I AM NOT A NUMBER! I AM A FREE MAN!

 

[Solaris]

Iniciate Alex Jones Plan Beta.
Rendevous at no.5 bring AKs, saftey is not guarenteed.

 

[ríomhaire]

Hmm, I don't know whether I think it's a good or bad thing.

 

[Razor]

People will let their government do anything when they're stupid and lazy and have no idea what's going on in politics.

Corrected.

But i think it's a good idea as it'll be a cool little card to put in my wallet.

 

[Solaris]

Corrected.

But i think it's a good idea as it'll be a cool little card to put in my wallet.

A cool little card that you'll be forced to carry, and everyone else will have one, with a number on. And it'll be like

Man Walks into shop
Shop Keeper: "Hows it going 187268"
Man "Fine"

Why do we have to surreneder our DNA to the State?!? Our DNA! What makes us who we are, and they demand under penalty of imprisonment that we hand it over to them!

Or at least they will once compulsion comes in.

 

[clarky003]

But i think it's a good idea as it'll be a cool little card to put in my wallet.

I seriously hope thats not what everyone who either adopt's an indesisive position or cant be arsed thinks.. :/

 

[Laivasse]

I'm dead disappointed that this made it though the commons. Everyone I talk to is against ID cards. So much for democracy.

But of course once it's implemented it will be OK because everyone's blind trust in the government will kick in - if you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear, right?

 

[Voodoo_Chile]

Unlucky England. I believe your government can change your constitution without referendum? This truly sucks. As a matter of interest do your system have another safestop after the House of Lords? In Ireland the President can refere a bill to the Supreme Court if he/she feels it contravenes the constitution and if it does it'll either be changed or a Referendum must be held.

 

[clarky003]

That is why there should be a public poll on quite severe legislation's like ID card's, I would infact demand a public poll. It doesnt seem very democratic atall seeing as so many people dont seem to be for it, and if given the choice most would probably vote against it.

 

[gick]

UK dont have no constitution, as far as I know.

 

[Septih]

And it'll be like

Man Walks into shop
Shop Keeper: "Hows it going 187268"
Man "Fine"

now you know how numbers feels

The plan seems silly to me, it won't be very effective, especially considering the cost. That said, I don't see why people are screaming about the DNA stuff, it's not like you'll die without it, do you plan on trying to commit crimes and get away with it or is it just the principle?

Oh and we do have one higher power above the house of lords...the queen, who I believe simply lets the rest get on with what they want, at least that's what I was taught a few years ago.

 

[Edcrab]

Meh, I've got no ethical stance against it- I just think it'll be expensive to introduce and not all that effective in the long run.

I still think a cohesive national DNA database is a good idea, though... just not necessarily piling all that information into a card and making it a mandatory security purchase :|

 

[Sulkdodds]

if you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear, right?

I actually met someone who argued that. :|

I don't see why our government should have the power to track us everywhere we go, recording every purchase we make. I don't see why we should have to carry a card in order just to exist, to be quite honest.

http://www.owos.info/idcardfreezone/action.php

 

[Llama]

With any luck it'll get owned by the house of Lords, and we won't have to live like victims of Combine occupation :E

 

[Cormeh]

£30, and £93 tied to a passport?

Bullshit Britain, I want my soul back. :|

 

[clarky003]

I call bullshit too, expensive bullshit.

 

[Cormeh]

I remember they had information booths set up across the road from my work, to explain what these were all about, regarding the passports and such.

I wish I had kept the damn leaflet now, I can't remember the ridiculous palaver that parents will have to endure to get a child a passport. Unless they raise the age to be held on an adult passport or something like that. God I wish I hadn't tossed that info out.

 

[VictimOfScience]

I don't see why our government should have the power to track us everywhere we go, recording every purchase we make.

Anything you use to make a purchase other than cash (and even that sometimes) can be used to track you and your goods. Credit cards, ATM card, subway cards, licenses, checks--they can all be tracked quickly and effectively. If the government wants these, its only a matter of time before they get them. The DNA issue is another issue entirely and is terribly frightening. I can only imagine what sort of sick lengths people will go to in order to forge new DNA identities. The bad guy in Die Another Day was going through that same sort of genetic alteration and it really doesn't seem that far off in medical terms.

 

[Sulkdodds]

Anything you use to make a purchase other than cash (and even that sometimes) can be used to track you and your goods. Credit cards, ATM card, subway cards, licenses, checks--they can all be tracked quickly and effectively.

But if I get on the bus and give the guy 1.40, they can't track that. Point taken though.

 

[clarky003]

With biometric.. one day you may get onto that bus and have to take a thumb scan, or eye scan that charges it to your credit card, or bank account, they'll say its to stop you having to carry cash around, but for the government it then becomes so much easier to track your every move.. thats just one example, decreased privacey ftl.

I have nothing to hide, but big brother will be one step closer with the ID card, no matter what kindof spin blair and blunkett try to put on it.

 

[Dan]

I think having a single ID card instead of a driver's license, social insurance card, health card would be nice. I don't care if the government knows about my life or keeps tabs on me, it's not all that interesting really.

I also wouldn't mind the government being able to keep track of my bank account so that they could do my taxes for me instead of me having to fill out reams of forms. More like the system they have in Norway where you just get your tax report and sign off if everything is correct. Makes it a lot easier for everyone.

 

[clarky003]

Not everyone wants to substitute ease, for freedom of choice. The way its set up at the moment isnt that hard to deal with, I suppose it appeal's to the lazy side of us all.. but the lazy option isnt always the better one.

 

[short recoil]

I will not be accepting one.

The first footstep towards something more sinister.

 

[Solaris]

I will not be accepting one.

The first footstep towards something more sinister.

Me too.
If you argue for taking biometrics, I guess you support drugtesting in schools: If you've done nothing wrong you've nothing to hide. And on the same princaple, you should have CCTV in your home(telescreens) if you've done nothing wrong you've nothing to hide. And lets ban racist books only people affected would be racists, lets ban communist books, and meetings, we all know there bad. Lets ban left wing -right wing groups we know there bad.

then we get
THOUGHT CRIME

 

[short recoil]

Well the stage after ID cards will be chip implants.

It will be under the trojan horse of "you can never lose your ID with an implant and will never be arrested for not having it on you"
Contain information so you can be scanned like a supermarket product or likely have tracking via GPS style satelites.

 

[kirovman]

Or selected for extermination, based on one of the categories you fall under.

 

[Septih]

can someone explain to me why everyone is so certain that these ID cards will lead to a 1984/halflife2/totalitarian style goverment where everything is monitored and most things censored?

 

[ríomhaire]

I think your overreacting Samon.A government that lasts only a few years is hardly trying to build towards 1984, which they would be subjected to. Unless of course the illuminati is behind it

 

[short recoil]

can someone explain to me why everyone is so certain that these ID cards will lead to a 1984/halflife2/totalitarian style goverment where everything is monitored and most things censored?

Because it's actually a step in that direction?

 

[kirovman]

Samon posted?

And yes, this is just the first step. How long until they chip away all our civil liberties, for 'security'?

 

[Sulkdodds]

can someone explain to me why everyone is so certain that these ID cards will lead to a 1984/halflife2/totalitarian style goverment where everything is monitored and most things censored?

1. Because we've read too much 1984 and played too much HL2.
2. Because that's the direction in which our country is moving.

 

[Septih]

1. Because we've read too much 1984 and played too much HL2.
2. Because that's the direction in which our country is moving.

1 is a given. expand 2 please

 

[gick]

2. Because that's the direction in which our country is moving.

QFT

Detention without trial.

Abolishion of freedom of assembly (asbos preventing any teenagers from entering certain town centres, protest ban outside the houses of parliament)

And now ID cards to keep tabs on everybody, and what they are doing.

Not looking good.