spookymooky
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Sort of related, I guess, and copied from my blog:
My view of the universe is intrinsically flawed. When seeing, for instance, light of some range of frequencies is emmited from in imperfect star, passes through imperfect space, passes through an imperfect atmosphere, reflects off an imperfect object, hits my imperfect cornea, in hits my imperfect retina, is imperfectly translated to electrical impulses, which pass along my imperfect optical nerve, which is again imperfectly translated in my imperfect brain. Quite a bit of room for error, eh? And thats just one example of one sense.
Even when I was a really little kid, I realized that we probably dont all see the same thing. What I see for blue, may be what you see for red. My orange might be your green.
The universe I live in is not that which we sense. My senses supply me with only a vague shadow, if that, of the true nature of nature. Plato's allegory of the cave is perhaps far more true than he intended it to be.
But what of this?
It seems to me that I live in a world, not of the universe, but of my mind. I experience life as my senses tell it to me, and react according to that information.
In this way, I do not live in the universe, but the universe dwells in me. My mind created the universe I live in: that which I experience through my senses. My universe includes only that which I know of, or can imagine. Until I open a door, nothing exists on the other side. Actually, whatever I imagine to exist, does, until I am proven otherwise. After all, what is the difference between fantasy and reality?
My view of the universe is intrinsically flawed. When seeing, for instance, light of some range of frequencies is emmited from in imperfect star, passes through imperfect space, passes through an imperfect atmosphere, reflects off an imperfect object, hits my imperfect cornea, in hits my imperfect retina, is imperfectly translated to electrical impulses, which pass along my imperfect optical nerve, which is again imperfectly translated in my imperfect brain. Quite a bit of room for error, eh? And thats just one example of one sense.
Even when I was a really little kid, I realized that we probably dont all see the same thing. What I see for blue, may be what you see for red. My orange might be your green.
The universe I live in is not that which we sense. My senses supply me with only a vague shadow, if that, of the true nature of nature. Plato's allegory of the cave is perhaps far more true than he intended it to be.
But what of this?
It seems to me that I live in a world, not of the universe, but of my mind. I experience life as my senses tell it to me, and react according to that information.
In this way, I do not live in the universe, but the universe dwells in me. My mind created the universe I live in: that which I experience through my senses. My universe includes only that which I know of, or can imagine. Until I open a door, nothing exists on the other side. Actually, whatever I imagine to exist, does, until I am proven otherwise. After all, what is the difference between fantasy and reality?
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Taking mushroom?
short recoil
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Blah, blah, blah, blah.......as soon as you realise you will have no need for words.
KagePrototype
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Tr0n said:You know...I stopped trying to figure this stuff out a while ago.
Just live the life guys and stop asking "what ifs" so much.It doesn't matter if this world is real or not...just live what you have and have fun.
What if you have fun asking what if?
Greatgat
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Laivasse said:
Basically that everything has a specific, unalterable value. That there is only one viewpoint to anything and that our minds are the only thing that has the ability to perceive that value and that is what makes the mind the most valued thing in existence.
short recoil
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Yeah but by the very nature of what is said it becomes meaningless itself.
Dan
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The one that always gets me is "what defines reality?" Why does anything exist? It would be much simpler for nothing to exist, or for a kind of plasma of everything to exist. If we consider all possible universes, or rather the state of being, of existing in general, you cannot come up with any reason for a specific universe or a specific state or object to exist. Why 3 dimensions of space? Why not 5, or 0? What you come up with in this objective context, is that rather than a specific local reality or constant universe existing, there must a complete state of null of neither existing or not existing, but rather the possibility of everything. It is only when we leave the objective view and view the world through a frame of reference that one possible set of that total null collapses into reality. Therefore our local reality is defined by our perception of it, or rather YOUR perception of it. Your reference frame is essentially cutting this null soup of possibility into some with definition and irregularities: your reality. It's like choosing one particular x for f(x). Or if you think of reality as a string of binary data, then this null is like the bits of that data without any particular state. It has the possibility of any combination.
From this the next question is well then why this particular universe? Why does your consciousness exist in this reality? Well it's because your consciousness is only a pattern defined by the reality in which we exist. But if our reality doesn't actually exist except as a single possibility, then that means that neither do we. Our self identity is merely a pattern in a field of possibilities. You do not exist in a larger objective sense. We only exist in relation to the reality which defines us. Or you could reverse it and say that the universe only exists (in the local sense) because it is the specific set of possibilities which supports your consciousness. Or perhaps once you have defined one you do not need the other. You might go as far as to say that your consciousness is the universe.
So what are the implications of this? This makes me wonder if perhaps we could learn more about our universe by simply exploring our own consciousness. If the two are intrinsically linked, then in theory, the information of the entire universe is encoded in our consciousness because the two are defined by one another. Although that brings up the problem of defining consciousness or awareness and quantifying it and then consctructing the universe. Although I guess that's sort of what we are doing with science, because really we're doing everything from within our consciousness. (edit: after some thought, I don't really like the idea I wrote above anymore, I can't quite say why, but it doesn't seem right)
A possible problem with the ideas I've written down is that it's all based upon logic which is based upon my local reality. I cannot objectively escape that logic because it's built into everything. Theoretically there is a higher state of null where the local rules of logic are merely a single set of an infinite number of possibilities. However it's hard to say much about that because you can't apply logic to it so you really don't know anything. It's like another dimension of possibility. Or rather complete flat null with no defining features at all.
Sorry for the ramble, I really only fleshed out my thoughts as I was typing them here. I think that when we can bridge the gap between philosophy and science we will finally begin to know everything about our local universe.
(edited)
From this the next question is well then why this particular universe? Why does your consciousness exist in this reality? Well it's because your consciousness is only a pattern defined by the reality in which we exist. But if our reality doesn't actually exist except as a single possibility, then that means that neither do we. Our self identity is merely a pattern in a field of possibilities. You do not exist in a larger objective sense. We only exist in relation to the reality which defines us. Or you could reverse it and say that the universe only exists (in the local sense) because it is the specific set of possibilities which supports your consciousness. Or perhaps once you have defined one you do not need the other. You might go as far as to say that your consciousness is the universe.
So what are the implications of this? This makes me wonder if perhaps we could learn more about our universe by simply exploring our own consciousness. If the two are intrinsically linked, then in theory, the information of the entire universe is encoded in our consciousness because the two are defined by one another. Although that brings up the problem of defining consciousness or awareness and quantifying it and then consctructing the universe. Although I guess that's sort of what we are doing with science, because really we're doing everything from within our consciousness. (edit: after some thought, I don't really like the idea I wrote above anymore, I can't quite say why, but it doesn't seem right)
A possible problem with the ideas I've written down is that it's all based upon logic which is based upon my local reality. I cannot objectively escape that logic because it's built into everything. Theoretically there is a higher state of null where the local rules of logic are merely a single set of an infinite number of possibilities. However it's hard to say much about that because you can't apply logic to it so you really don't know anything. It's like another dimension of possibility. Or rather complete flat null with no defining features at all.
Sorry for the ramble, I really only fleshed out my thoughts as I was typing them here. I think that when we can bridge the gap between philosophy and science we will finally begin to know everything about our local universe.
(edited)
Greatgat
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Ultimape said:
To put the spotlight back on me, that's the objectivist part of my philosophy. Things still exist even they may not be around us, or be able to see them. Nihilism makes me believe that there is no way for me to tell if they've changed while I'm not looking.
MarcoPollo
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I think that this thread is the end result of too much acid and not enough "Not crazy Pillz"
FictiousWill
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One of the Wachowskis is now a woman.
spookymooky
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Yes, but it doesnt exist in my universe, which means it doesnt exist for me. Until I imagine it, then it does. As long as I consider something possible, it exists in some sense.Ultimape said:
clarky003
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the funny thing is, the only things that make this our reality , say in contrast to a dream, Is our physical relationship with our world, and our primal instinct that wants to keep our physical body operating, the fear of pain, or death.. is only a physical mechanisim to attempt to keep the machine working, in that respect you can realise theres a seperation between primal instinct and higher brain function otherwise known as the formative mind. your formative mind doesnt really care weither you live or you die.. its function is expanding your intuition and intelligence, knowledge. only in combination with primal base instinct does this conflict.. keeping us grounded in our reality. if you move aside thinking in the first person, and think of yourself in the 3rd person, except try to dettach your thought away from 'normalities created by senses' and attempt to imagine the possible limitations of our physical senses and that possibility in misleading our formative mind.
try and see outside of it all and realise that physical matter is only physical because of us being on the right frequencey to percieve it that way, an elaborate deception.. the true nature of the universe is of an energy dance, our logical attempt to understand our world is just an inward appreciation for what we already know being part of this energy ourselves, so what we see as an atom is more like a condensed manifestation of energy ,forcefield like, repelling other energy interactions such as what we know as photon's.. this gives its appearing solidity, and at the same time its not solid.. its completely relative to the energy frequencey's.. its duality. being ignorant in your own senses obviously wont help this realisation.
a good analogy is this..
a parascope fixed above the surface of the sea viewing it represents you,
you can see the oceans waves breaking, and moving, you can appreciate them, this is your reality.
you cannot see how or why they are moving exactley the way they do.. the wind is invisible to you although you can feel it now and then.. but it doesnt account for the entirity of the motion you observe, the reality your percieving.
you are in contact with the ocean you rise out of it even.. from below through your mind. although you cannot see the subtle movements under the ocean that give the waves there shape and form, the unpercievable gives rise to the percievable. gives rise to you. and in realisation its all connected, its all one all the individual waves are connected fundementally.. the one is manifested as the many.
try and see outside of it all and realise that physical matter is only physical because of us being on the right frequencey to percieve it that way, an elaborate deception.. the true nature of the universe is of an energy dance, our logical attempt to understand our world is just an inward appreciation for what we already know being part of this energy ourselves, so what we see as an atom is more like a condensed manifestation of energy ,forcefield like, repelling other energy interactions such as what we know as photon's.. this gives its appearing solidity, and at the same time its not solid.. its completely relative to the energy frequencey's.. its duality. being ignorant in your own senses obviously wont help this realisation.
a good analogy is this..
a parascope fixed above the surface of the sea viewing it represents you,
you can see the oceans waves breaking, and moving, you can appreciate them, this is your reality.
you cannot see how or why they are moving exactley the way they do.. the wind is invisible to you although you can feel it now and then.. but it doesnt account for the entirity of the motion you observe, the reality your percieving.
you are in contact with the ocean you rise out of it even.. from below through your mind. although you cannot see the subtle movements under the ocean that give the waves there shape and form, the unpercievable gives rise to the percievable. gives rise to you. and in realisation its all connected, its all one all the individual waves are connected fundementally.. the one is manifested as the many.
clarky003
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my bad on the spelling, i meant analogy.. corrected anyway. .. eroticism..? its philosphy, drawn from science and mysticism... it tries to draw on our inner awareness in relationship with our outer,, it draws on quantum physics to show how vacuum (the vaste space between the atoms) somehow sustains our reality out of apparent nothingness, its appropriately based on our deepest understanding and interaction with the world.
M
mikal
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dan your message just tells what my aim was. thank you
FictiousWill said:
...relevance to the thread? Stop gossiping.
You can spend your whole life looking for answers, and when it comes to the end, and you haven't found them, you end up disappointed. Then you die.
If you never set yourself goals you can never disappoint yourself. :thumbs:
If you never ask questions, you never need to find answers. :thumbs:
Lazy? Me?
CrazyHarij
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I wouldn't be too surprised if we're all part of a bigger scheme or something, but I'm not going to assume anything or join any group of thought advocating that some view is ahead of the other.
The human mind is just too easily brainwashed and manipulated to be able to make decisions like this in a mentally sane way, it's better to just enjoy life and do the best of what you have.
The human mind is just too easily brainwashed and manipulated to be able to make decisions like this in a mentally sane way, it's better to just enjoy life and do the best of what you have.
Lex Luthor
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Kangy said:
How ironic.
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The whole purpose of this thread (and the others that mikal has started) is to get people to visit the site that he constantly promotes. Nothing more, nothing less.
If he continues to do this, he'll find himself banned.
If he continues to do this, he'll find himself banned.
