if you hated the last 4 years...

[gh0st]

things are going to get much worse for you. with a republican controlled legislature, executive, and soon a republican judicial branch, theres going to be a giant wave of conservatism - which the american people obviously agree with, having advanced the gop so far this election. the republicans only need 5 democrats to vote with them to pass most legislature. i would not be surprised at all to see the demise of gay marriage and abortion, much lower taxes, and within the next 4 years a much stronger economy

on a brighter note, i think this is going to be the beginning of a major political reconstruction in this country. democrats arent going to be a threat anymore unless they become progressively more and more right, since this attitude is what most americans want, and its all about competition. this many republican incumbants will be very difficult for the democrats to recover from.

im optimistic about the EU though, as many european leaders have called for better relations, and may even aid us in iraq.

 

[Neutrino]

theres going to be a giant wave of conservatism - which the american people obviously agree with

Um...no.

51% agree with it. This does not constitute the "American people."

People are very divided and if Bush and congress follow a purely conservative agenda and ignore half the population I say they will have failed in their jobs as representatives of the people.

I think the country will swing back to being liberal over time. This is most likely just a backlash by conservatives from a lot of things that have happened in the last decade or so. Doesn't mean the liberal trends won't continue to grow though. For example, support for gays and gay marriage/civil unions has grown consistantly over the last ten years. This is a blip in the graph but it won't stop the major public trend of acceptance.

One can draw parallels to many times in history when one group feels threatened by the changes in society and so digs in and tries to fight against it. But they rarely prevail as they are fighting against statistical trends that cannot be easily stopped.

 

[gh0st]

Um...no.

51% agree with it. This does not constitute the "American people."

People are very divided and if Bush and congress follow a purely conservative agenda and ignore half the population I say they will have failed in their jobs as representatives of the people.

I think the country will swing back to being liberal over time. This is most likely just a backlash by conservatives from a lot of things that have happened in the last decade or so. Doesn't mean the liberal trends won't continue to grow though. For example, support for gays and gay marriage/civil unions has grown consistantly over the last ten years. This is a blip in the graph but it won't stop the major public trend of acceptance.

i wasent talking about the president, i'm talking about other elections (governors, senators, representatives). this isnt a backlash... with all the rabid left filmmakers and movie stars, moveon.org, everything that the left brought to bear they still lost by a significant 3 million votes.

hmm.. this gay marriage support you speak of must not be as big as you think either, since a 5th of our states just banned it.

this is just a cycle, youre right. its happened many times over the course of american history, with the quincy adams election, democrat-republicans, and federalists, even the whigs. its a constant evolution, but the democrats have just taken a step backward. this type of conservativism was pretty unexpected.

 

[smwScott]

People are very, very stupid. Winston Churchill said that the greatest argument against democracy is a conversation with the average voter. For the most part this is true. Not to be prejudiced or anything but the majority of red states are filled with very ignorant people. These hicks would seriously allow their vote to be swayed if they thought one candidate acted more macho than the other. The country is going in a very bad direction, just look at the turn of events over the last 4 years.

 

[Death.Trap]

What the hell is with you people and red necks? They aren't some fing plauge. You have a problem with them because they have a different way of speaking? How ignorant can you possibly be? There aren't that many red necks, and most of the ones I know make good grades in school. You people seriously need to get over yourselves.

 

[gh0st]

People are very, very stupid. Winston Churchill said that the greatest argument against democracy is a conversation with the average voter. For the most part this is true. Not to be prejudiced or anything but the majority of red states are filled with very ignorant people. These hicks would seriously allow their vote to be swayed if they thought one candidate acted more macho than the other. The country is going in a very bad direction, just look at the turn of events over the last 4 years.

yeah well realize that you "smart people" are in the minority. your post is about as arrogant as physically possible, congratulations. the west coast and new england have always been traditionally liberal states, since the formation of the union, its no surprise that they voted democrat. the midwest and south have always been conservative. dont call them stupid though... hicks dont come from ohio, or florida, or virginia, or montana, or alaska. but arrogant ass new englanders definatly come from new england.

 

[Neutrino]

i wasent talking about the president, i'm talking about other elections (governors, senators, representatives). this isnt a backlash... with all the rabid left filmmakers and movie stars, moveon.org, everything that the left brought to bear they still lost by a significant 3 million votes.

No, I still think it is a back lash. Evangelical Christians came out in record numbers for this election. There's a reason for that. I think that reason was they felt threatened by the way things are going.

hmm.. this gay marriage support you speak of must not be as big as you think either, since a 5th of our states just banned it.

Yes, it is. I've read the statistics for it over the last decade or so. I never said that support was over 50%. It is not, so obviously the majority still is against it. However, what I was saying is that support has been growing consistantly and it will eventually top 50% at which time things will start to change.

this is just a cycle, youre right. its happened many times over the course of american history, with the quincy adams election, democrat-republicans, and federalists, even the whigs. its a constant evolution, but the democrats have just taken a step backward. this type of conservativism was pretty unexpected.

I agree the democratic party needs some reform if it wants to be a force in our politics. But yes, like you say this is just a cycle. The democratic party was once much stronger than the Republican party for many years. Because of this the Republicans decided to reform their party and take action. The result was the much stronger republican party that we see today. But the pendelum will swing back eventually.

 

[burner69]

But you can't say that the last 4 years have been exactly 'peachy'. Blame who you want, the statement still stands.

And if 5 states have banned gay marriage I think we should be questioning whether or not this is a step forward or backwards. Could someone give me one good reason why homosexuals should not be able to get married?

I don't like to say it, but when so many Americans vote against gays it seems that they have points of view that should not necessarily be listened to.

 

[gh0st]

No, I still think it is a back lash. Evangelical Christians came out in record numbers for this election. There's a reason for that. I think that reason was they felt threatened by the way things are going.

true, but typically democratic voting demographics (such as youth) surprised the democrats by voting in a larger percentage for bush than they expected. theres a reason for THAT too.

Yes, it is. I've read the statistics for it over the last decade or so. I never said that support was over 50%. It is not, so obviously the majority still is against it. However, what I was saying is that support has been growing consistantly and it will eventually top 50% at which time things will start to change.

liberalism and conservatism tend to grow over time, so i do agree with you. can i see the statistics you speak of i cant find them.

I agree the democratic party needs some reform if it wants to be a force in our politics. But yes, like you say this is just a cycle. The democratic party was once much stronger than the Republican party for many years. Because of this the Republicans decided to reform their party and take action. The result was the much stronger republican party that we see today. But the pendelum will swing back eventually.

you're right. it is very interesting to see historical events in action like we see this election though, so many parallels to the past.

 

[Neutrino]

I don't like to say it, but when so many Americans vote against gays it seems that they have points of view that should not necessarily be listened to.

I agree. There are certain things that should not be left up to majority rule. I think it also has direct connection to the failure of US politics to stay out of religion and vise versa.

 

[Death.Trap]

But you can't say that the last 4 years have been exactly 'peachy'. Blame who you want, the statement still stands.

And if 5 states have banned gay marriage I think we should be questioning whether or not this is a step forward or backwards. Could someone give me one good reason why homosexuals should not be able to get married?

I don't like to say it, but when so many Americans vote against gays it seems that they have points of view that should not necessarily be listened to.

Well fortunately the United States is a democracy. Their-my-point of view has to be listened to.

 

[Death.Trap]

I agree. There are certain things that should not be left up to majority rule. I think it also has direct connection to the failure of US politics to stay out of religion and vise versa.

Then who decides? An all-knowing committee? If you take away the right for citizens to vote on new laws and changes to state constitutions you might as well toss the constitution overboard.

 

[cronholio]

People are very, very stupid. Winston Churchill said that the greatest argument against democracy is a conversation with the average voter. For the most part this is true. Not to be prejudiced or anything but the majority of red states are filled with very ignorant people. These hicks would seriously allow their vote to be swayed if they thought one candidate acted more macho than the other. The country is going in a very bad direction, just look at the turn of events over the last 4 years.

Unfortunately for your pathetic attempt at a point, it looks like the people who really turned the tables in this election weren't rednecks at all, but black Evangelicals and Baptists in northern states. Good people in my book.

 

[burner69]

It's a well known fact that the government can easily make the average joe alter his opinion. Look at Nazi Germany. (I'm not comparing America to Nazi Germany, I'm using an example)

Clearly as Bush is mixing church with state anti-gay views will come across influencing his people. Resulting in a nation who has problems with gays - something I cannot understand.

If democracy is working so well, WHY are gay marriages being made illegal? Opinions of people stopping others from doing what they want, surely this is not a good thing, especially as gays do people no harm.... or has anybody here got a valid reason why homosexuals should not be allowed to marry?

 

[burner69]

Well fortunately the United States is a democracy. Their-my-point of view has to be listened to.

You really think the government gives a flying yit about your opinion. No they don't.
If there were lot's of yous, maybe, but not just you.

 

[CptStern]

I never thought I'd see the day when people are happy that their country is becoming more conservative. Do you think afghanis danced in the streets when the taliban took over?

disclaimer: I am NOT comparing the US to the taliban ..only paraleling the rise of fundamentalism

jesusland scares me

 

[burner69]

VERY good point

 

[Death.Trap]

You really think the government gives a flying yit about your opinion. No they don't.
If there were lot's of yous, maybe, but not just you.

Lucky for me there are lots of me. Considering that 11 states just banned gay marriage. The legislation got passed in Missisipi with 86% of the vote.

 

[burner69]

So come on then. Why? Why shouldn't homosexuals be able to get married? If your opinion matters so much, as to affect other people's lives, I hope you have a VERY strong case against it.

EDIT: You should be ashamed, not showing off the figures on that one.

 

[CptStern]

Lucky for me there are lots of me. Considering that 11 states just banned gay marriage. The legislation got passed in Missisipi with 86% of the vote.

no big surprise there, isnt Mississipi in the bible belt?

 

[Neutrino]

true, but typically democratic voting demographics (such as youth) surprised the democrats by voting in a larger percentage for bush than they expected. theres a reason for THAT too.

Where did you read that? I though I read that the youth vote percentage didn't increase all that much but youth voters actually voted more democratic than they did in 2000.

liberalism and conservatism tend to grow over time, so i do agree with you. can i see the statistics you speak of i cant find them.

I can try to find them later. I don't have time right now to try to dig them up.

Then who decides? An all-knowing committee? If you take away the right for citizens to vote on new laws and changes to state constitutions you might as well toss the constitution overboard.

I said some things should not be up to majority rule, which is true. Ever hear of the Bill of Rights? Those are the things I'm talking about. Do you seriously think the majority should be able to vote to change or modify the Bill of Rights every election?

 

[UmbrellaMaster]

I wonder if our country will ever stop waging war on someone? I'm really tired of hearing about all the battles we've fought over the last 100 years. *sigh*

 

[smwScott]

yeah well realize that you "smart people" are in the minority. your post is about as arrogant as physically possible, congratulations. the west coast and new england have always been traditionally liberal states, since the formation of the union, its no surprise that they voted democrat. the midwest and south have always been conservative. dont call them stupid though... hicks dont come from ohio, or florida, or virginia, or montana, or alaska. but arrogant ass new englanders definatly come from new england.

I didn't say that only stupid people were republicans and smart people are liberal, that would be more ignorant than the damn rednecks. There are many intelligent liberals and conservatives who have valid arguments. My point was that in this election the people that turned the tides were mostly hicks and very religious people.

To the guy who said that they are good people, maybe they are. However, it is a HUGE mistake to have church and state become any closer. It is outrageous that a president can claim that he believes god chose him to be president, that should have caused an uprising. Church and state should stay very, very far apart - unfortunately the bible belt felt that their personal morals and religious convictions should be able to override the personal lives of other people.

And just look at gay marriage. This issue effects an extremely small portion of America, and will have absolutely no consequence to you if your not gay. This fairly unimportant issue was one of the deciding factors in the campaign because of homophobic morons. 40 years from now people will look back and think of these people the same as we think of pro segregationists now.

 

[Death.Trap]

I didn't say that only stupid people were republicans and smart people are liberal, that would be more ignorant than the damn rednecks. There are many intelligent liberals and conservatives who have valid arguments. My point was that in this election the people that turned the tides were mostly hicks and very religious people.

To the guy who said that they are good people, maybe they are. However, it is a HUGE mistake to have church and state become any closer. It is outrageous that a president can claim that he believes god chose him to be president, that should have caused an uprising. Church and state should stay very, very far apart - unfortunately the bible belt felt that their personal morals and religious convictions should be able to override the personal lives of other people.

And just look at gay marriage. This issue effects an extremely small portion of America, and will have absolutely no consequence to you if your not gay. This fairly unimportant issue was one of the deciding factors in the campaign because of homophobic morons. 40 years from now people will look back and think of these people the same as we think of pro segregationists now.

Where did Bush say God chose him to be president? Linkage?

 

[smwScott]

Where did Bush say God chose him to be president? Linkage?

It's fairly well known. I did a quick search for it but all I found was quotes of him saying stupid stuff and this and this, the latter of which isn't 100% certian. I'm sure others will back me up on this, it's a well known quote.

Also, why don't you address the other issues in the post rather than a single sentence?

 

[Ennui]

Look, 51% voted for Bush, 48% voted against him. America is extremely divided now, more so than the election four years ago, and there are going to be major changes now that all 3 branches of our government is controlled by Republicans.

For all of you in the rest of the world, I'm apologising now for what they are going to do. I'll be amazed if we don't go to war against another nation in the name of the war on terror.

Goodbye open-mindedness, hello to no abortion, no gay marriages, lax gun laws, less government programs, no sex education, less seperation of church and state, and to a more aggressive foreign policy.

 

[qckbeam]

Then who decides? An all-knowing committee? If you take away the right for citizens to vote on new laws and changes to state constitutions you might as well toss the constitution overboard.

It's a given that we don't create laws which discriminate against a group of people. Logic alone tells us that there are only two reasons to pass a law banning gays from taking part in marriage which, like it or not, is very much a secular institution.

1)Religious reasons, which can be thrown out since they have no bearing on our law making process whatsoever

2)Pure intolerance and/or homophobia.

It’s a civil rights issue. We aren’t supposed to categorize people and issue out certain rights to one group while withholding that right from another.

 

[burner69]

I agree with you, though I think the way you put it might annoy any religious people here.

But I do agree pretty much exactly with what you say.

 

[seinfeldrules]

No, I still think it is a back lash. Evangelical Christians came out in record numbers for this election. There's a reason for that. I think that reason was they felt threatened by the way things are going.

So did liberals. Dont act like Republican Christians were the only ones who came out strong.

And if you dont feel America is leaning conservative then you are fooling yourself.

 

[sublidieminal]

America is another Rome, we're going down soon.

 

[Neutrino]

So did liberals. Dont act like Republican Christians were the only ones who came out strong.

I was saying conservative christians came out in greater numbers and voted for Bush as a result of being threatened by changing values in society.

Certainly both sides, liberals and conservatives, in general came out in stronger numbers. But obviously there were more conservatives coming out than liberals as Bush won.

And if you dont feel America is leaning conservative then you are fooling yourself.

Huh? Where did I say it wasn't? But it's not leaning much. It's still pretty evenly divided and I think it will swing back to the liberal side over the coming years.