IGN: Black Box in Pine Box

well, I don't, but you know what I meant...
 
Au-heppa said:
well, I don't, but you know what I meant...
Click to expand...

In the event that AHA-Lambda is right, and we steam users and owners of HL2 and EP1 are forced to re buy those very same games through Steam again in order to play EP2 rather than Valve sell them to us as a standalone bundle (as opposed to the retail release) I'm prepared to cowboy up and pay for his copy of HL2.
 
Yeah, me too. And I think most of the people who said "Valve lost a customer" will buy it too in the end.

My point was that the price now with HL2 and EP1 is pretty much the same as without them, but having them there makes you think you are paying awful lot of extra for them. I said "Steam Community" instead of "people who disagree" or what ever because it sounds better in the "joke".
 
I think that the Black Box was going to be $10 cheaper. So people are outraged that they have to pay an extra $10 (Which most of you won't have to if a Black-package is available on Steam, and I doubt that Valve are stupid enough not to do that).
 
I can sort of understand what they're doing here because of the console releases; they all get the orange box, plus Valve was going to release two separate boxes for PC gamers, but it doesn't make too much sense to market two different boxes when you can market the same box with all the old content for $10 more. Seriously, for gamers who haven't experienced HL2 and Ep1, that's a good deal and a lot less confusing from a retail standpoint. You go into a store and you pick up the orange box that says Half-Life on it, rather than seeing an orange AND a black box that say the same thing. Far be it beyond people to actually read what a package contains, I know, but you'd be surprised.

In any case I don't care. $10 for games I already own is a pittance. I'm going to spend about $50 next week or so picking up three Valve games I already own:

Half-Life 2
Half-Life 2 Deathmatch
Counter-Strike: Source
Day of Defeat (this one I don't have)

And I think it has Half-Life: Source in it (which I also own) but I'm not sure. The reason I'm spending this money? Because it's the Christmas box and it's got a santa hat on it. That's the ONLY reason. For $50. So I can say I have it, because most people don't. So I can own something limited edition that you've probably never heard of. So $10? Pfft.
 
Darkside55 said:
I can sort of understand what they're doing here because of the console releases; they all get the orange box, plus Valve was going to release two separate boxes for PC gamers, but it doesn't make too much sense to market two different boxes when you can market the same box with all the old content for $10 more. Seriously, for gamers who haven't experienced HL2 and Ep1, that's a good deal and a lot less confusing from a retail standpoint. You go into a store and you pick up the orange box that says Half-Life on it, rather than seeing an orange AND a black box that say the same thing. Far be it beyond people to actually read what a package contains, I know, but you'd be surprised.

In any case I don't care. $10 for games I already own is a pittance. I'm going to spend about $50 next week or so picking up three Valve games I already own:

Half-Life 2
Half-Life 2 Deathmatch


Counter-Strike: Source
Day of Defeat (this one I don't have)

And I think it has Half-Life: Source in it (which I also own) but I'm not sure. The reason I'm spending this money? Because it's the Christmas box and it's got a santa hat on it. That's the ONLY reason. For $50. So I can say I have it, because most people don't. So I can own something limited edition that you've probably never heard of. So $10? Pfft.
Click to expand...


110% with you on this. Valve made only one mistake, releasing the prices early. If people never knew the prices to begin with no one would be in there pity outcry right now.

To all the people out there saying they don't want to pay for what they already have. If you honestly don't see how GENEROIS VALVE is for making 3 of these games all one package for ****ing 50$? 50$ ****ing dollars? They could have EASLY charged a lot more.

For the poeple saying dont force me to buy games im not interested in. If you only look out for yourself valve would not have a huge communited like it has now and therefore would not be making Half-Life games. Shut your mouth and pay for the most feature packed game box of all time and cheapest.

Lets see:

Half-Life 2 -Old (18-20 Hours)
Half-Life 2 Episode 1 -Old (4-5 Hours)
Half-Life 2 Episode 2 -New (8-9 Hours)
Portal -New (4-6 Hours)
Team Fortress Two -New (Infinite)

Commentary On Episode 1,2,portal, and TFC2. With doubles the playtime on all those games. Added Average of 33 Hours.

Oh and btw if I'm not mistaken the 360 and PS3 versions of Half-Life 2 have HDR I'm guessing this will update the PC versions.

So lets just say your paying what every OTHER company would charge.

Episode 2 - $30 (every expansion pack known to man is $30 no matter the size)
Portal - $20 (more of a mini game that companies release they always charge this price for those games.
Team Fortress 2 - This is tricky it could be a full $40 retail and I'm guessing if this was EA, or any other company that's what they would charge. Full fledged Mp game.

Hummm $90 retail price, even EA or other company's told Valve what they were doing and that they were crazy to sell this together for such a low price.

But no Valve knows their fans and it knows that they will appreciate the ****ing offer. But losers like some people on the forum cant ****ing see it and its SICK.

Bash one of the GREATEST and MOST GENERIOS companies of all ****ing time because they want their games to reach out to more people. Because they want less confusion, because they are charging you $40 less then what they could have. Keep yelling at them for the updates they keep giving their games, the loads of free content. Keep ****ing whining and yelling about your precious $10 that they are charging you more. MORE? Are you people blind or delusional...
 
$40 for Ep:2, TF2, and Portal was a ridiculous value - those games are worth more than that - Valve was being very honorable by trying to keep that price.

Just think of the development costs for making those three games - games aren't cheap and most cost millions to make. Pre-judging the quality of these games, I think Valve deserves the extra money and that they've earned it!

If people are going to be petty over $10, then that's their loss. Next-gen games were raised from $50 to $60, that's how things go.
 
This is stupid, I already own HL2 and EP1, I don't feel I should be paying for games I already own
 
Asuka said:
110% with you on this. Valve made only one mistake, releasing the prices early. If people never knew the prices to begin with no one would be in there pity outcry right now.

To all the people out there saying they don't want to pay for what they already have. If you honestly don't see how GENEROIS VALVE is for making 3 of these games all one package for ****ing 50$? 50$ ****ing dollars? They could have EASLY charged a lot more.

For the poeple saying dont force me to buy games im not interested in. If you only look out for yourself valve would not have a huge communited like it has now and therefore would not be making Half-Life games. Shut your mouth and pay for the most feature packed game box of all time and cheapest.

Lets see:
Half-Life 2 -Old (18-20 Hours)
Half-Life 2 Episode 1 -Old (4-5 Hours)
Half-Life 2 Episode 2 -New (8-9 Hours)
Portal -New (4-6 Hours)
Team Fortress Two -New (Infinite)

Commentary On Episode 1,2,portal, and TFC2. With doubles the playtime on all those games. Added Average of 33 Hours.

Oh and btw if I'm not mistaken the 360 and PS3 versions of Half-Life 2 have HDR I'm guessing this will update the PC versions.

So lets just say your paying what every OTHER company would charge.

Episode 2 - $30 (every expansion pack known to man is $30 no matter the size)
Portal - $20 (more of a mini game that companies release they always charge this price for those games.
Team Fortress 2 - This is tricky it could be a full $40 retail and I'm guessing if this was EA, or any other company that's what they would charge. Full fledged Mp game.

Hummm $90 retail price, even EA or other company's told Valve what they were doing and that they were crazy to sell this together for such a low price.

But no Valve knows their fans and it knows that they will appreciate the ****ing offer. But losers like some people on the forum cant ****ing see it and its SICK.

Bash one of the GREATEST and MOST GENERIOS companies of all ****ing time because they want their games to reach out to more people. Because they want less confusion, because they are charging you $40 less then what they could have. Keep yelling at them for the updates they keep giving their games, the loads of free content. Keep ****ing whining and yelling about your precious $10 that they are charging you more. MORE? Are you people blind or delusional...
Click to expand...

You are correct in saying that the deal is quite good. However, I still don't see the point in paying for two games that you already have. Granted, you can give them to your friends, but the proviso is that your friends actually have decent computers. Most of my friends, as an example, aren't computer geeks like myself, and thus are quite content to buy a standard Dell crap-o-matic. I can only think of one person I know who would want and be able to play HL2, out of around thirty. Therefore, I wouldn't want to have to pay extra for something I probably won't use. Would you pay more for a new games console if it also came with a large red brick? In addition, from what I remember, Valve aren't too fond of people re-selling their games on Ebay and suchlike. Something like this will give sellers a field day.









Also, for heavens sake, lay off the cursing. It makes your argument look very stupid, despite the fact that it's a good point.
 
Askaris said:
Would you pay more for a new games console if it also came with a large red brick?
Click to expand...
Yes.

I'm not being facetious, either. :)

I realize everyone's contention with this, but if you really look at it you're getting Half-Life 2 for $5, and Episode One for $5. Even if you already own them, not only are you getting the best deal ever on these two games but if you DO have friends that can use it, there you go. Yes, you're purchasing something you already have, but is $10 really putting a hole in anyone's pocket?

If anyone is really mad that you're paying for something twice over, my suggestion is to pretend it isn't even there. $50 for Episode 2, Portal, and TF2. Don't even think about HL2 and EpOne.
 
Darkside55 said:
If anyone is really mad that you're paying for something twice over, my suggestion is to pretend it isn't even there. $50 for Episode 2, Portal, and TF2. Don't even think about HL2 and EpOne.
Click to expand...

My suggestion would be they buy EP2 via steam where Valve are almost certainly going to sell it standalone with TF2 and Portal included in the bundle. :angel:
 
Just thought I'd point something out here, in response to the argument that the Steam pack will be the same as the retail pack because that's how it was with Episode 1.

Episode 1 came with 1 CD key, which unlocked Ep1, HL2DM & HLDM:S (and Lost Coast). The Steam package matched what that CD key unlocked.

Episode 2 will come with 3 CD keys: 1 will unlock Ep2, Portal, & TF2; 1 will unlock HL2, etc; 1 will unlock Ep1, etc. I suspect that each of these CD key types will have a Steam online package equivalent. And that includes a pack that only includes the new games.
 
Qhartb said:
Just thought I'd point something out here, in response to the argument that the Steam pack will be the same as the retail pack because that's how it was with Episode 1.

Episode 1 came with 1 CD key, which unlocked Ep1, HL2DM & HLDM:S (and Lost Coast). The Steam package matched what that CD key unlocked.

Episode 2 will come with 3 CD keys: 1 will unlock Ep2, Portal, & TF2; 1 will unlock HL2, etc; 1 will unlock Ep1, etc. I suspect that each of these CD key types will have a Steam online package equivalent. And that includes a pack that only includes the new games.
Click to expand...
Someone read the article :D

But seriously, you could put those two extra cd-keys to use by giving them to friends who don't have the game or have never heard of them. I'd love to do so, but I don't have loads of money. For everyone whining about the supposed $10 extra, just give HL2 and HL2:Ep1 away to other people. It's good to be nice.
 
i dont mind paying an extra 10 dollars for two games i already own. its just an easy gift for one of my friends that doesnt own half-life 2. have any of you actually changed your mind about purchasing ep2 now? you can always sell your extra copies to somebody.
 
Upon reading the comments, I will be looking foward to official word that the products will be sold separately.

I am not looking to fleece Valve as long as they do not look to fleece us.

I am all about consumer choice. If a customer wants only TF2, given he already has HL2, he has the right to buy only that without having to be saddled with repeat products and games he doesn't want to play.

If they feel that repeat products are a justified cost, so be it. But Valve should not expect us to jump any hoops, I don't care if it's $10 or a penny, to have our choice of what they have to offer.

On a less formal note: I can't help that Valve is being strong-armed by some higher power to either conform to a console bundle or have us act as their marketers (giving out CD keys and what not) at our cost.
 
I agree that it is a little ridiculous that they want to change people who have already bought HL2 for the same game again.

However, I'm sure you will be able to buy the games individually on Steam. Every other Valve game I can buy individually, even "mods" like DOD and CS source.
 
Javert said:
On a less formal note: I can't help that Valve is being strong-armed by some higher power to either conform to a console bundle or have us act as their marketers (giving out CD keys and what not) at our cost.
Click to expand...

Same here, Well hmm, I wonder who that could be.. oh wait yeh, those doofs at EA.
 
Javert said:
On a less formal note: I can't help that Valve is being strong-armed by some higher power to either conform to a console bundle or have us act as their marketers (giving out CD keys and what not) at our cost.
Click to expand...

Is there really anyone here who would actually give away their Half-Life 2 and Episode 1 CD keys to their friends for free? And if not, wouldn't the alternative of trading the CD keys for $10 be illegal?

$10 isn't much to get angry about, but the suggestion of simply giving the extra keys to friends is something I find really funny. :D
 
Au-heppa said:
so, basicly this is...

one month ago:
Episode Two
Portal
Team Fortress 2
Price: about $50
Steam Community response: yay

Today:
Episode Two
Portal
Team Fortress 2
extra copy of Half-Life 2 and Episode One
Price: $50
Steam Community response: WTF? NO!
Click to expand...

yay for manipulation of facts!

The price of the Black Box was going to be ~$40, not $50. Not everyone is an idiot and going to accept what you say as fact.
 
Let's wait until EP:4 release. After all, we are buying all games in EP:4 package.
 
Asuka said:
110% with you on this. Valve made only one mistake, releasing the prices early. If people never knew the prices to begin with no one would be in there pity outcry right now.
Click to expand...

Please. Like that's the only mistake valve's ever made. Infact, it's not even a mistake, it's a change of a previous decision. You HAVE to release prices early. That way, the consumers and retail outlets know what the prices on their next big project will be. Also, it sparks discussion (like we're doing now), and brings interest and attention back to them. And i disagree with you, there still would be an outcry.

Asuke said:
To all the people out there saying they don't want to pay for what they already have. If you honestly don't see how GENEROIS VALVE is for making 3 of these games all one package for ****ing 50$? 50$ ****ing dollars? They could have EASLY charged a lot more.
Click to expand...

Not really. Let's be real. The main selling point of the package is another chapter in the Half-Life 2 story. If someone was to make an educated guess, without following valve everyday like most here would, the only thing that'd they would be able to base the length of the game on would be what they played in episode 1. Which was quite short, but the 20 dollar price tag reflected that.

This package is hardly generous. You're paying 50 dollars for a Ep. 2 (which is its main selling tool) that isn't even a full length game, which includes a multiplayer component and another game that is very different from the other two with regards to the same genre.

Valve being generous is what they did with the silver package through Steam (and i'm sure we'll never see another deal like this again) for 60 dollars.
We got:
Half-Life 2
Counter-Strike Source
Day of Defeat Source (pre-release)
and Half-Life Source.

For 50 dollars there was the bronze package (same price as the black box) which got you just half-life 2 and cs:s. A full lenght game and a multiplayer component. Just like any other retail game on the shelves.


For the poeple saying dont force me to buy games im not interested in. If you only look out for yourself valve would not have a huge communited like it has now and therefore would not be making Half-Life games. Shut your mouth and pay for the most feature packed game box of all time and cheapest.
Click to expand...

If you get a tingly feeling inside because you "think" you're special because you want to pay valve more money, then that's fine. They're selling a product. I'm a potential buyer. That's all it comes down to. If they want to go the extra mile for the consumers, great, but it's on them, and i'm sure they know that. In fact, going that extra mile for the "community" has actually benefited them more than us, if you take into consideration that hired the creators of counter-strike and Day of Defeat to make it retail. Half-Life 1 sold a bunch more in the third year than the first due to the community created mods, which attracted more players to the game. So wake up, it's far from one sided.

Lets see:

Half-Life 2 -Old (18-20 Hours)
Half-Life 2 Episode 1 -Old (4-5 Hours)
Half-Life 2 Episode 2 -New (8-9 Hours)
Portal -New (4-6 Hours)
Team Fortress Two -New (Infinite)

Commentary On Episode 1,2,portal, and TFC2. With doubles the playtime on all those games. Added Average of 33 Hours.
Click to expand...

Ha! Can you sugar coat that any more (i'm sure you can).

Few things.

1. Half-Life doesn't take me 18-20 hours to complete. Everyone who plays the game will have different results with regards to the length, so your numbers are invalid.
2. How do you know how long games that you haven't played through are going to take? You don't, and again, ever one will have a different way of completing it, thus making it different depending on the player.
3. Team Fortress 2 being "infinite" is a very poor choice of a word. Something like variable would make more sense. I might play it for 5 minutes, find out it blows, and never play it again.
4. Commentary doesn't count. You're still playing the game over again, but this time I get to hear some dude talking in my ear and interrupting my game? No thanks.
5. Why do i have to pay for a game two games i bought 3 years ago? I can give them to friends? Wow. I've heard some ridiculous statements from Doug over the years, but this takes the cake. But hey, i guess if valve's "generous", i might as well be, too, right? Give me a break.

So lets just say your paying what every OTHER company would charge.

Episode 2 - $30 (every expansion pack known to man is $30 no matter the size)
Portal - $20 (more of a mini game that companies release they always charge this price for those games.
Team Fortress 2 - This is tricky it could be a full $40 retail and I'm guessing if this was EA, or any other company that's what they would charge. Full fledged Mp game.

Hummm $90 retail price, even EA or other company's told Valve what they were doing and that they were crazy to sell this together for such a low price.
Click to expand...

This is so argumentative that it's not even funny. Personally, 30 dollars is a fair price for Episode 2. I paid 20 for the first one, and this one is longer. I'm not interested in TF2 or Portal at the moment, so i wouldn't mind paying for them later on if i change my mind. But 40 dollars for TF2? Ha! Wasn't DOD:S around 20 or something? I don't remember exactly, since i bought it in a package deal.


But no Valve knows their fans and it knows that they will appreciate the ****ing offer. But losers like some people on the forum cant ****ing see it and its SICK.
Click to expand...

Get a grip. Valve know it's "fans" are going to buy it regardless. Their aim is to attract new customers to the series. If that wasn't the case, then what's the point of including the first two HL2 games? Oh, that's right, to give to your friends.:cheese:

Bash one of the GREATEST and MOST GENERIOS companies of all ****ing time because they want their games to reach out to more people. Because they want less confusion, because they are charging you $40 less then what they could have. Keep yelling at them for the updates they keep giving their games, the loads of free content. Keep ****ing whining and yelling about your precious $10 that they are charging you more. MORE? Are you people blind or delusional...
Click to expand...

This is nonsense. I'm not even going to bother.
 
ftskowxf4dw2.jpg


I should post this on flame wars everywhere, and put thing into perspective.
 
Maybe we should email valve to try and gather the facts instead of bickering about what we don't know. It will solve the problem completely.
 
indeed, all the new threads are turning into discussions about the Black Box
 
Okay I have emailed Lombardi but I'm not expecting an answer because I never get replies to my emails for whatever reason so can someone else try?
 
DarkDamo said:
yay for manipulation of facts!

The price of the Black Box was going to be ~$40, not $50. Not everyone is an idiot and going to accept what you say as fact.
Click to expand...
I had never heard anything about $40 before this, I had always understood it was approx $50. Besides, it was a joke.
 
The news said that the price will be $10 more. The price of orange box is $50, that makes black box $40.
 
Hasn't Valve in the past also:

(a) Given discounts for pre-orders thru Steam?
(especially if you already own a related game)

(b) Allowed more flexibility in purchasing choices thru Steam?
(once steam notices that you already own parts of a previously released package)

(c) Allowed pre-loading of gaming content days (or weeks) before it was available thru retail?


The last one is not so much related to the purchase price on games, but goes to show that Valve already
tries to provide incentives for existing Steam users to continue to make use of the service and gaming
catalog, and it does not make sense for them to apply a retail package to us; when it would make a
greater selling point for the company if the word got out that already having a Steam account grants
you better pricing and availability to get the games without having to stand in line at retail, or
wait to load the game from CDs. (You will still have to wait for it to finish "decrypting...", but
you can join in with everybody else in the forums when that countdown starts).

In all the uproar over whether the change in retail pricing might affect online players, we seem to
have overlooked that online players sometimes get better deals on purchase than what is offered thru retail.

If I'm wrong on this, I will help Kadayi Polokov with paying for AHA-Lambda's copy of HL2.
 
To the people who think that Valve is being coerced or suggested into this decision by EA, I doubt it. Valve tends not to listen to anyone else but themselves when it comes to their distribution model; I don't think EA's input (if they had any) made any dent on Valve's decision. Of course I could be wrong, but I like to believe in Valve's integrity.

Buveed is right that Valve's targeting the box to new customers more than to those of us who have already purchased HL2 and Episode One. Like I said, part of this is because of the new console releases; I sincerely doubt if there was no orange box to begin with for either PC, PS3, or 360 then the retail model would've been black box only, with an orange-esque pack coming out later, possibly around Christmas or in the following year. Because the orange box exists, it simply becomes more economical to package all the games as one and charge $10 more for it rather than spend the money on manufacturing, housing, and distributing two different packages.

Yes, people don't want to pay more for things they already own, but you have to remember that Valve is first and foremost a company. They may love their consumers but they're not going to reach out so far for us that they'll operate at a loss. This is quite simply the most economical thing to do, and from a business point I can understand--and even respect--that. Most people are only looking at this from the consumer point of view:

"Valve is making me spend more money to buy games I already own."

And that's a perfectly acceptable frame of mind, but you should also try and look at WHY Valve is doing it. It's no stretch of logic to see it makes sense. Especially with allowing you to give the product to your friends; I still know people in this day and age who have computers perfectly capable of running HL2 who've never picked it up, even if they wanted to. That's also a very powerful marketing tool--much like Steam's free weekends and friend passes, they're actually GIVING AWAY games. Yes, you have to pay for it, but if you're not using it you are inevitably going to give it to a buddy (unless you're stingy). Don't underestimate how much revenue they could generate from doing such a thing. They'd be bringing in new customers like crazy with such a strategy. For proof, just check how many people purchased CS:S and DoD over the free weekends. Giving away full GAMES and spreading Half-Life 2 via your friends, actually giving them the full game to have and play rather than just word of mouth, "You should really pick up HL2, it's a great game." That's genious. So you have to look at it like that as well. We're dealing with a COMPANY here, and a company's first and foremost goal is to MAKE MONEY. Even with Valve, making great games and being community friendly comes second, because if they don't make money...well, there's no Valve.

Also Buveed I will debate with you on what is the higher draw: Episode 2 or Team Fortress 2. Episode 2 is a big thing that fans of the Half-Life series have been eagerly awaiting, but I compare its popularity to that of Episode 1, no more (perhaps even a little less). Team Fortress 2 on the other hand is a game some of us have been waiting for for the past EIGHT YEARS. Clans of people who haven't gamed together in awhile are all getting back into it now, gearing up for what we all hope to be the best class-based multiplayer gaming experience in a very, very long time. There's a reason Team Fortress Classic, despite its age, still has servers up and running and they are PACKED. The pubs are literally packed. I can seriously pop open steam right now and check and I guarantee that all my favorite hotspots are going to be full up with people. TF2 is a BIG deal. In fact originally, both TFC (which was originally to be TF2) and its unreleased predecessor the military-styled TF2 were going to be separate, stand-alone games that would have cost $30 and then $50, respectively (military TF2 being a vastly advanced game, new graphics engine and all that making up the difference in price). So really that's going to be the heavy draw for anyone who loved TFC.

And people love TFC, let me tell you. I'd shell out the big bucks for it and I know the entire community would, if the game turns out to be as great as TFC and QWTF were.

So Episode 2 $30 and TF2 $30, and you throw in Portal free because it's a short, fun, experimental game, and you've already got $60 there. You can look at it like that, shave off $10 and get two free games that you may already have, and you're still looking at a bargain.


Unrelated to the conversation, Planetary, I love that macro. It reminds me so much of me. I even strike that same pose he's doing. Saved.
 
Certainly good news for those who're looking to purchase on Steam.

I'm still going to get the box, personally.

Nice new screenshot there in that article as well.
 
So when Episode 3 comes out, we'll have to pay $60 for:

Half-Life 2 (again)
Half-Life 2 Episode 1 (again)
Half-Life 2 Episode 2 (again)
Portal (again)
Team Fortress 2 (again)
Half Life 2 Episode 3
 
confuzzled

Right... I'm quite confused now.

What I will be wanting to purchase is TF2 and Portal.
Will I be able to buy those two titles over steam and how much will they cost?

I don't own EP1 (and don't want it) and I'm not looking to buy EP2 either.

My flat mate ONLY wants to buy TF2, will he have to pay 50 bucks just for TF2?
 
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