I'm reading The Communist Manifesto

[Atomic_Piggy]

And I have to say its very interesting, a surprising number of the ideas within are found in todays world. While it is obviously outdated and meant for a time when proper capitalism ruled, it is still a great read, and I suggest anyone looking for a complex book read this. :thumbs:

 

[Polaris]

Find a proper book, it's a sh*t. No matter what "intellectuals" said.

 

[Raziaar]

Pinko!

 

[nurizeko]

Go back to Russia, comrade killjoy. :sniper:

 

[The Monkey]

I found it very boring to get through. Thank God it's so short.

 

[Solaris]

It's by my bed. It's still applicable, just the nature of work has changed.

Not a great first read as an introduction to marxism though, it's pretty complicated hard to understand and boring.

Polaris, I'm willing to bet you don't have a semi-decent understanding of Marxism.

 

[Polaris]

Polaris, I'm willing to bet you don't have a semi-decent understanding of Marxism.

Well, I was born in totalitarian regime where Marxism-Leninism was official ideology. I've read excerpts from that book and I find it naive and silly.

 

[Solaris]

Well, I was born in totalitarian regime where Marxism-Leninism was official ideology. I've read excerpts from that book and I find it naive and silly.

No it wasn't. The Soviet Union pretended to be marixst. Lenin would have been sick had he seen what the SU had turned into once Stalin came to power.

 

[PortalStormzzzz]

Communism = |censored| |Censored|! it will always end up in a |censored|.

You know, Jesus was the first communist. He had a good idea, if only people didn't abuse it.

 

[Mr Stabby]

I thought it was vague and dull.

 

[staticprimer]

All of Marx's work is far to dense to be interesting.

 

[kirovman]

No it wasn't. The Soviet Union pretended to be marixst. Lenin would have been sick had he seen what the SU had turned into once Stalin came to power.

Stalin was pretty awesome tbh.

Apart from all the deaths.

 

[Nemesis6]

Stalin was pretty awesome tbh.

Apart from all the deaths.

And the disappearances... don't forget the disappearances. But remember - All the people who died were Polish people who fought for the Vatican against the Soviets. It's true, a YouTube Nashist who defended the liquidation of these people as "what had to be done" told me this after I pointed out that Stalin killed 20 million people. When I called bull on the entire thing I was of course blocked, but nevertheless: Awesome man who did what.... had to be... done..... :scratchhead:

Heh, the youth of Russia are interesting - And they'll be much more so after a decade of Putin's institutionalized historical revisionism.

Note: Nashist = A member of Vladimir Putin's youth fan-club "Nashi".

 

[PortalStormzzzz]

Stalin WAS awesome, if you don't count all the deaths, the impoverishment of Most Russians which still effects them today, the destruction of successful Farming operations with |censored| |Censored| "communal" system, the complete book of "How to make Russia |censored| at defending the motherland from Germans" and it's complementary second edition, "How to through your men into German machine guns and think your winning", the completion of the virus known as communism which lead to the impoverishment of most humans in every Asian nation that adopted it, the impoverishment of East Germany, the impoverishment of Cuba, the creation of the Nuclear arms race which lead to many heart attacks and panic attacks of nuclear war, the creation of the gun that today makes more deaths then Stalin could ever hope to achieve (ak47), and Russia's complete and |censored| |censored| to the might of US and A after 60 years of bullshitting.

Yea, forget about all that and Stalin was awesome.

 

[Adabiviak]

...Homeland Security will be by shortly to pay you a visit.

 

[Cole]

Well if you go back to Chinese Communiusm it must have seemed like a damn good idea at the time.

Imagine being ruled by a brutual jackass dictator ruler. Everyone but a very few rich minority's life is hell. Your not part of that rich minority. Now imagine a group advocting for this thing called "Communism". Where there will be a great middle class, people will be equal, and everything will be great. Now imagine Japanese invades your town. Now your jackass dictators military forces retreat out of your town because the Japanese are coming. Yet who comes to the rescue and help you? These communists forces. Japan surrenders to America the war is over. Now this Communist party has huge support by the people and you're one of them! You kick out this jackass dictator and claim the Communist Party as your leaders!

.... Only to be ****ed over and thrown under rule of basically another dictator. Only in the future does this jackass dictator die, and his nation turn into a democracy that is actually doing pretty good for itself.

 

[Gunner]

No it wasn't. The Soviet Union pretended to be marixst. Lenin would have been sick had he seen what the SU had turned into once Stalin came to power.

Oh grow up ffs.

 

[PortalStormzzzz]

Lenin and Stalin were actually good friends. surely killing 20 million MUST HAVE come up in their talks?

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/3057/vladimirleninandjosephslm9.png

Though I agree that we'd see a much friendly SU if that dude who ran to Mexico and got killed off came to power rather then Stalin.

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

It's by my bed. It's still applicable, just the nature of work has changed.

Not a great first read as an introduction to marxism though, it's pretty complicated hard to understand and boring.

Got any recommendations?

 

[staticprimer]

Oh grow up ffs.

Actually he does have a point. Lenin did not trust Stalin, he thought Stalin would lead the Soviet Union astray (imagine that!) Lenin had intended to make Trotsky his successor, but he died before he could do it.

 

[Cpt Tenacious]

I found it very boring to get through. Thank God it's so short.

Wow, Monkey you don't know how close I was to saying "that's what she said!"

 

[leib10]

Read it in high school. It should've worked in theory, but in the real world Marxism failed miserably.

Stalin was pretty awesome tbh.

Apart from all the deaths.

God, I hope you're kidding.

 

[ericms]

I have it stashed away in one of my desks after having read it last year. In a sort of strange irony I read it whilst also reading Stirner's "The Ego and Its Own." Marx ended up writing, in response to this work, a lengthy criticism of it which I knew about only after having put both down. Though I must say I never finished Stirner's book, which I found quite thick.

God, I hope you're kidding.

Why would he be kidding?

 

[Eejit]

[blahblah communism made countries poor]

Because Russia, China, Vietnam etc. were such well-developed, industrialised and democratic nations not already suffering from rampant corruption befre the Communists got power, amiright?

 

[Cole]

Because Russia, China, Vietnam etc. were such well-developed, industrialised and democratic nations not already suffering from rampant corruption befre the Communists got power, amiright?

Yes. Both China and Russia were in huge economic troubles when communism took over. In fact thats why communism took over, because the people were unhappy with the huge economic problems and freedoms they didn't have. It's just that the leaders of the communist parties, when in power, didn't solve these problems.

The problem is a lot of communism rule was/is essentially dictatorship where the people have few rights. Communism is more of an economic and lifestyle system than it is a type of government. You can have Democracy and Communism in one single nation functioning together. Today we see Democracy and light versions of communism in function together. Democratic Socialist Countries. In fact a lot of these countries do really well. For instance, Sweden.

 

[Mr Stabby]

Sweden is a social market economy which works entirely differently to communism. Sweden allows free markets, then taxes the revenue. Communism forbids all forms of free trade or markets.

 

[Solaris]

Lenin and Stalin were actually good friends. surely killing 20 million MUST HAVE come up in their talks?

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/3057/vladimirleninandjosephslm9.png

Though I agree that we'd see a much friendly SU if that dude who ran to Mexico and got killed off came to power rather then Stalin.

Trotsky. And they wern't friends, thats a lie.

I'd recommend reading Robert Tressels the ragged trousered philanthropists for an understanding of socialism. It made me a socialist, I lent it to my right wing friend, now he is one too.

 

[kirovman]

It made me a socialist, I lent it to my right wing friend, now he is one too.

lol, is that one of the comments on the back of the book?

 

[Solaris]

Oh grow up ffs.

For **** sake. I've read about it in so much detail I probably know so much more about it than you do, so I really don't appreciate that.

 

[PortalStormzzzz]

Trotsky was a good man. He would have made the world a wonderful place if he'd take power.

You see, this is the problem with Communism. If everyone was a clone of Jesus and acted so nice and moral, it would be perfect. But humans are not Jesus clones. We rape and pillage every opportunity we get. It's a good system if we were all perfect little humans, but we're not. So it will never work. Communism is weak, and unless you get a Gandhi in power, your basically screwed.

With Capitalistic democracy, you get a 50-50 chance. It can work until it becomes and elitist system like the modern day US.

The only system that will work is a mixed Democracy-dictatorship. Essentially, if you divided up the Earth into continental unions, all united in a democracy allowed to act independently for the most part, you could have a good government. Kind of like a blown up version of the US's government. The only change would be that there would be no political parties and only poor men could run for office. Thus allowing the elitists to have 0 control.

 

[Mr Stabby]

It's correct that Stalin wasn't a Marxist-Leninist, he was a Stalinist, which is a form of socialism, but not strictly a from of communism.

 

[Solaris]

It's correct that Stalin wasn't a Marxist-Leninist, he was a Stalinist, which is a form of socialism, but not strictly a from of communism.

It wasn't a form of socialism. It was State Capitalism.

 

[PortalStormzzzz]

Actually, Stalin was A socialist who realized the system |censored| and reverted to Dictatorship

Stalin being a capitalist is like Bush having Brains. Never going to happen/ never happened.

 

[Polaris]

Trotsky was a good man. He would have made the world a wonderful place if he'd take power.

Are you kidding?
He was same bloody bastard like other Bolsheviks.

"Root out the counterrevolutionaries without mercy, lock up suspicious characters in concentration camps... Shirkers will be shot, regardless of past service..."

 

[Mr Stabby]

No it wasn't, state capitalism has privately owned, by government managed industry, under Stalin the USSR had collectivized agriculture, and collectivized industry, so it was economically socialist.

 

[PortalStormzzzz]

Ok, Trotsky wasn't Jesus, BUt he would have been 10X better then Stalin.

 

[Mr Stabby]

Actually, Stalin was A socialist who realized the system |censored| and reverted to Dictatorship

The Marxian economic system basically requires a dictatorship, it needs the elimination of trade, to prevent capitalism starting, the only way to stop trade is government control.

 

[Solaris]

Are you kidding?
He was same bloody bastard like other Bolsheviks.

He absolutely had to treat counter revolutionaries like that. It was completely necessary to safe guard the revolution.

 

[Mr Stabby]

Ok, Trotsky wasn't Jesus, BUt he would have been 10X better then Stalin.

Had Stalin not very brutally industrialized Russia, the Germans would have steamrolled them, it's unlikely that Trotsky would have carried out the industrialization policy, of 'socialism in one country'.

 

[<RJMC>]

It made me a socialist, I lent it to my right wing friend, now he is one too.

yeah, more sheeps to the cattle