I'm reading The Communist Manifesto

Yea, Communism just seems like a whole follow the leader game that often leads the leader off a cliff.
 
Let me tell you a story my friends. A story about perhaps the greatest idea a mortal man ever had, ever.

I want to introduce you to Archibald von Zwischengegen III, perhaps the greatest man to have ever lived, ever. Archibald was a man way ahead of his time, because he had an idea that could make our shopping lives a lot easier, as well as potentially tripling the revenue of stores all throughout the world.

How? Simple. Archibald saw a problem with the oppressive system of stores being open from 9.00 - 18.00, it was oppressive to the normal worker class who came home from his slave job and did not have time to go shopping. Worse yet, on Sunday's, the slave's only real day off, stores were closed, period! Archibald's solution was simple: keep stores open 24/7! All stores, everywhere! Of course, paying for store clerks to watch the store 24/7 would be very expensive and not worthwhile, and the solution to that was just as brilliant: just keep shops unlocked without supervision 24/7! That way, if someone needs something at 2.00 in the night, he can just enter the store, get what he needs, leave the money on the counter and go home. This idea could not possibly fail.

The idea was tried numerous times in several countries and regions, by revolutionaries with a vision of a brighter tomorrow in shopping. Unfortunately, the experiments were corrupted (most likely by evil 9-18h oppressionists that wished to keep the workers enslaved) and shops were looted at night, all money got stolen from the cash registers and soon shopkeepers were starving on the streets.

And for those who say the system just doesn't work, you're wrong! I'll have you know that I've read about 20 books on the subject written by the greatest intellectuals to have ever lived, ever, so I can say I know a little more about 24/7 stores than you do! All attempts of such a system failed because they were not true 24/7 shopkeepers following Archibald's ideals. In a town in France, where they attempted to use Archibald's system, shopkeepers eventually started installing mounted guns to kill any thieves. But that's not the fault of the system at all, there is no reason a system with unsupervised stores that are open 24/7 for everyone will eventually lead to oppressionist anti-theft security measures! That's not how Archibald intended it!

I believe the system works flawlessly in a perfect world with perfect people who leave their perfect money on the perfect counters of the perfect store as they buy their perfect product from the perfect shopkeeper who perfectly isn't there.

And I believe in my heart if any of you read a proper book on the subject, you will all become followers of the 24/7 system as well (Archibald's original work on the subject "A Shopkeeper's Manifesto" is a good one).

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyway. Solaris, riddle me this: if I'm a farmer and I grow an apple (not a very good farmer then, but whatever) and the system does not allow me to sell the apple by definition, how could that possibly NOT lead to an oppressive, totalitarian regime? The state would control your freedom. The Soviet Union is not an example of communism being poorly implemented, it's the result of what it will inevitably lead to. Communism is BOUND to end up into a totalitarian regime. In an imperfect world, it WILL. In a perfect world, communism would work perfectly, but then, the world already was perfect, so what do you need communism for?

And 'socialist' is a meaningless word. Like 'pro-life'. Everyone in their right mind is a socialist and everyone is pro-life, while no one is pro-capitalist oppression and pro-killing babies. Everyone is for equal distribution of wealth so that every person on the planet can live comfortably. And in a perfect world, everyone could BE a socialist. But it's not and socialism doesn't work while capitalism DOES work. Socialism is ideology not grounded in any reality. Socialism isn't the means to reach a socialist society, it's merely the goal, something to aim for while something else (hint: capitalism) is going to get us there. So it's the goal, not the means.

And no, I haven't read as many books on it as you. But "I have read more books than you" is not an argument, and if it is, I'll do an Amazon search on "THE EVOLUTION LIE" and try my luck in an argument against Richard Dawkins.
 
PvtRyan, I believe, deserves the Crown of teh internets.

Communism as been proven to be |censored| |censored| and indeed, it is so stupid.

PvtRyan has logic. As in a perfect world Communism would be good. But it can't do to the natural ways humans live.
 
PvtRyan said:
Let me tell you a story my friends. A story about perhaps the greatest idea a mortal man ever had, ever.

I want to introduce you to Archibald von Zwischengegen III, perhaps the greatest man to have ever lived, ever. Archibald was a man way ahead of his time, because he had an idea that could make our shopping lives a lot easier, as well as potentially tripling the revenue of stores all throughout the world.

How? Simple. Archibald saw a problem with the oppressive system of stores being open from 9.00 - 18.00, it was oppressive to the normal worker class who came home from his slave job and did not have time to go shopping. Worse yet, on Sunday's, the slave's only real day off, stores were closed, period! Archibald's solution was simple: keep stores open 24/7! All stores, everywhere! Of course, paying for store clerks to watch the store 24/7 would be very expensive and not worthwhile, and the solution to that was just as brilliant: just keep shops unlocked without supervision 24/7! That way, if someone needs something at 2.00 in the night, he can just enter the store, get what he needs, leave the money on the counter and go home. This idea could not possibly fail.

The idea was tried numerous times in several countries and regions, by revolutionaries with a vision of a brighter tomorrow in shopping. Unfortunately, the experiments were corrupted (most likely by evil 9-18h oppressionists that wished to keep the workers enslaved) and shops were looted at night, all money got stolen from the cash registers and soon shopkeepers were starving on the streets.

And for those who say the system just doesn't work, you're wrong! I'll have you know that I've read about 20 books on the subject written by the greatest intellectuals to have ever lived, ever, so I can say I know a little more about 24/7 stores than you do! All attempts of such a system failed because they were not true 24/7 shopkeepers following Archibald's ideals. In a town in France, where they attempted to use Archibald's system, shopkeepers eventually started installing mounted guns to kill any thieves. But that's not the fault of the system at all, there is no reason a system with unsupervised stores that are open 24/7 for everyone will eventually lead to oppressionist anti-theft security measures! That's not how Archibald intended it!

I believe the system works flawlessly in a perfect world with perfect people who leave their perfect money on the perfect counters of the perfect store as they buy their perfect product from the perfect shopkeeper who perfectly isn't there.

And I believe in my heart if any of you read a proper book on the subject, you will all become followers of the 24/7 system as well (Archibald's original work on the subject "A Shopkeeper's Manifesto" is a good one).
Click to expand...

Best. Post. Ever.

And I mean that.
 
I would like to give PvtRyan a public high-five before I'm banned.

That was entertaining.
 
Basically some form of communism will be a good idea once we have uber-robots to do all the hard work for us.
Until then it's a nice idea but impractical.
 
<3 PvtRyan

I've read the menifesto as well, and yes, it's the stupidest idea ever. Of course, I may be biased because communists cut my grandfather's fingers off. And you know, attack every 3 years or so.

"I hate communism! Communists are all liars!"

-Lee Seung Bok, a few seconds before his untimely death at the age of 9. He was ripped apart (literally) by the northern puppet army's partisan troops. Only his brother survived, and now he has a statue and a memorial, "The Boy who said No."
 
Any regime that, by obligation to keep itself in power, requires censorship, and abusing the rights of the individual and the nation and generally denying the people access to the free flow of information and opinions, essentially, freedom of speech, is obviously a flawed system and by all rights should be allowed to die the natural and quick death it deserves.


Edit: A quote from an old game, but its a good quote nether the less, ignoring the game specific fictional history:

...free flow of information is the only safeguard against tyranny. The once-chained people whose leaders at last lose their grip on information flow will soon burst with freedom and vitality, but the free nation gradually constricting its grip on public discourse has begun its rapid slide into despotism. Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.

* Commissioner Pravin Lal, "U.N. Declaration of Rights"



History of communism has proven one thing and one thing alone. It doesn't work.


Edit II: PvtRyan, great post, you need to read that at some big political debate or something.
 
PvtRyan said:
Let me tell you a story my friends. A story about perhaps the greatest idea a mortal man ever had, ever.

I want to introduce you to Archibald von Zwischengegen III, perhaps the greatest man to have ever lived, ever. Archibald was a man way ahead of his time, because he had an idea that could make our shopping lives a lot easier, as well as potentially tripling the revenue of stores all throughout the world.

How? Simple. Archibald saw a problem with the oppressive system of stores being open from 9.00 - 18.00, it was oppressive to the normal worker class who came home from his slave job and did not have time to go shopping. Worse yet, on Sunday's, the slave's only real day off, stores were closed, period! Archibald's solution was simple: keep stores open 24/7! All stores, everywhere! Of course, paying for store clerks to watch the store 24/7 would be very expensive and not worthwhile, and the solution to that was just as brilliant: just keep shops unlocked without supervision 24/7! That way, if someone needs something at 2.00 in the night, he can just enter the store, get what he needs, leave the money on the counter and go home. This idea could not possibly fail.

The idea was tried numerous times in several countries and regions, by revolutionaries with a vision of a brighter tomorrow in shopping. Unfortunately, the experiments were corrupted (most likely by evil 9-18h oppressionists that wished to keep the workers enslaved) and shops were looted at night, all money got stolen from the cash registers and soon shopkeepers were starving on the streets.

And for those who say the system just doesn't work, you're wrong! I'll have you know that I've read about 20 books on the subject written by the greatest intellectuals to have ever lived, ever, so I can say I know a little more about 24/7 stores than you do! All attempts of such a system failed because they were not true 24/7 shopkeepers following Archibald's ideals. In a town in France, where they attempted to use Archibald's system, shopkeepers eventually started installing mounted guns to kill any thieves. But that's not the fault of the system at all, there is no reason a system with unsupervised stores that are open 24/7 for everyone will eventually lead to oppressionist anti-theft security measures! That's not how Archibald intended it!

I believe the system works flawlessly in a perfect world with perfect people who leave their perfect money on the perfect counters of the perfect store as they buy their perfect product from the perfect shopkeeper who perfectly isn't there.

And I believe in my heart if any of you read a proper book on the subject, you will all become followers of the 24/7 system as well (Archibald's original work on the subject "A Shopkeeper's Manifesto" is a good one).

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Click to expand...

the thing is...

comunist will search in theyr bibles in the part where it say "what happens when someone state the obvious?" it will be something like "say that if everyone follows comunisn the world will be perfect and it will work cuz everyone will follow the light" or something like that,since a duty of the comunist is to allways use the moment for propaganda and to spread it more

just look at solaris
 
nurizeko said:
Edit: A quote from an old game, but its a good quote nether the less, ignoring the game specific fictional history:

...free flow of information is the only safeguard against tyranny. The once-chained people whose leaders at last lose their grip on information flow will soon burst with freedom and vitality, but the free nation gradually constricting its grip on public discourse has begun its rapid slide into despotism. Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.

* Commissioner Pravin Lal, "U.N. Declaration of Rights"
Click to expand...

Alpha Centauri. :D
 
PortalStormzzzz said:
PvtRyan has logic. As in a perfect world Communism would be good. But it can't do to the natural ways humans live.
Click to expand...

It's not a good idea if it fails to take into account human nature!
Also, as it creates a closed economy, communism fails there as well - requiring EXTENSIVE Keynesian economic tinkering - using market mechanisms to deal with the failure of the markets

:|

It doesn't work, any way you try it!
 
yep. But if everyone was a happy slave who simply did as they were told, it would. Humans are not slaves, hence it will always end up in a horrible crash.
 
Even then, it's entirely possible for the market to fail.

Also: Can you please shorten your sig to 4 lines or less, ta.
 
Not self-contradictory ones. Or paradoxical ones.


Anyhow, let's just give it a few hundred years till the machines and AIs do all the work, then we won't need a free market etc. and won't need to work anyway. Give it another go then :p
 
It's still flawed, as it's based on outmoded principles of labour being the largest producer of capital...

:D
 
Solaris said:
He absolutely had to treat counter revolutionaries like that. It was completely necessary to safe guard the revolution.
Click to expand...
First of, have you ever lived in a country during the time of Stalin etc. that was also "liberated" after the second world war? Your relatives? How about deportation/repression against these "counter-revolutionaries" ( 1 of them happened to be my grandmother when she was just a small girl )? Have you realy smelled the idea with your own hands or is it just an blind imagination of utopia? Were people in soviet union equal as the main doctrine of communism goes? As for reading, put down your Communist Manifesto and read George Orwell.
 
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