Image Dump VII (POST YOUR RANDOM IMAGES HERE)

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Vegeta897 said:
What would that have anything to do with what I said? I assumed it was a great piece of music anyway.

Sure, maybe sheet music would be a good way to compare 2 pieces of music in the olden days before electronic and sampled music, but in modern times it's completely stupid to attempt to apply it to modern music.
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I edited my post to remove any provocation I may have implied.

I got a little carried away in simply trying to explain that the sheet music itself wasn't the basis of comparison. Forgive the intrusiveness.
 
"You best be trolling." <-- Relevant to the second post above me and the first post below me.
 
jet_porkins said:
Sheet music is simply the audible sounds you hear in music, annotated down onto paper.
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Except it's incredibly limited outside of melodical/rhythmic terms. It doesn't even come close to being able to annotate all music, particularly modern music.
 
The hell are you talking about vegeta? Any sound ever made can be put on sheet music and in perfect time. Some is just really complex and would take a long time to write down.

Case and point:

aphex-twin.jpg



(lol yes I know it's fake, so don't point it out)
 
Vegeta897 said:
Except it's incredibly limited outside of melodical/rhythmic terms. It doesn't even come close to being able to annotate all music, particularly modern music.
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"Modern music," like what? While I personally believe one can just about notate any audible sound onto a piece of paper, I agree with what you're saying that written music will never fully capture what the music is really trying to say. It's just a roadmap/guideline for the player.

waltz19pq.jpg


edit: Dog--, I know you didn't beat me to this picture! I POSTED IT FIRST!

*arms*
 
jet_porkins said:
While I personally believe one can just about notate any audible sound onto a piece of paper,
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Haha. Do you know anything about electronic or synthesized sound? You'd be better off with a schematic of a circuit board.
 
jet_porkins said:
While I personally believe one can just about notate any audible sound onto a piece of paper
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Tell me what the London Conservatory uses to denote a change in pulse wave width. Or how about a phaser insert? Or maybe a reversed note? Or which wave modulation to use for amplitude modulation of vocoded formant-filtered static acting as a sidechain to a compressed sample of floor noise?

Edit: Die, vegeta.
 
It would have to be a flipbook, with drawings of synths and the appropriate hand movements animated.

From pages 780 to 1056 we move the cutoff frequency to 16000 in the following motion!
 
Vegeta897 said:
Haha. Do you know anything about electronic or synthesized sound? You'd be better off with a schematic of a circuit board.
Click to expand...

A note is a note regardless of what effects it uses. Sheet music isn't there to tell you what kind of effect to use (although some do, I have some song books that tell you to use slight reverb/distortion/etc), it tells you what note it is. You can have a D note playing through all different kinds of waveforms, phasers, delays, flangers, etc. But it's still a D. And that's what the sheet music will tell you - That note is a D, period.


Like... Do you read sheet music? I think you are underestimating how versatile it really is.
 
Dog-- said:
The hell are you talking about vegeta? Any sound ever made can be put on sheet music and in perfect time. Some is just really complex and would take a long time to write down.

Case and point:

http://soundsdefygravity.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/aphex-twin.jpg


(lol yes I know it's fake, so don't point it out)
Click to expand...



jet_porkins said:
"Modern music," like what? While I personally believe one can just about notate any audible sound onto a piece of paper, I agree with what you're saying that written music will never fully capture what the music is really trying to say. It's just a roadmap/guideline for the player.

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/9581/waltz19pq.jpg

edit: Dog--, I know you didn't beat me to this picture! I POSTED IT FIRST!

*arms*
Click to expand...

Love those pics. :)
 
Dog-- said:
But it's still a D.
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What note is it when you have a solid wall of white noise with a very thin band of frequencies being cut out from it and all the rest muted, and that thin peak of sound is moving rapidly up and down the spectrum of audible frequencies, being modulated by the randomised LFO of a sine wave?
 
It's still a note.. Literally any sound ever made is some kind of note, you can't argue this, I don't care if it's white noise, it's still some note at some octave. It's not like it stops being a note when it gets to a certain point.
 
White noise is essentially every note at once. I'm asking how you'd even attempt to annotate what I just described.
 
Are you kidding? White noise is definitely not every note at once, and even if you made every note at once, it'd all cancel out to one other note anyways. There are different pitches (therefore notes) of white noise, it doesn't sound the same as every other white noise..

And it's not hard.. I don't know exactly what that would sound like, I admit I'm not a synth person, but you could easily tie notes together, add trills, and ornaments and things like that to it and it'd be on paper.
 
Dog-- said:
It's still a note.. Literally any sound ever made is some kind of note, you can't argue this, I don't care if it's white noise, it's still some note at some octave. It's not like it stops being a note when it gets to a certain point.
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Oh, but I will; you are factually wrong.

'Note' is a simple term that only applies to music. Sound itself can live long and prosper without notes. A note is a single fundamental frequency or pitch (regardless of upper harmonics) on a human-made scale. Noise is all frequencies at random. Thus, it is not a note.
 
It's a random sequence of notes. Notes may have been made by humans, but it's like math, it still applies to this kinda shit. You CANNOT have a sound that can't be translated into a note. Regardless of frequency, regardless of white noise, every sound is a note.

Notes don't have to be music, I can sit here and play E, then F. That's not music that's just 2 sounds. 2 sounds translated in to notes, E and F.
 
Dog-- said:
It's a random sequence of notes.
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No, it's not. Do you understand how the scale system works? Ideal human hearing is about 10 diatonic octaves in width. That's 120 notes. Ideal human hearing happens to also be 20hz to 20khz. That's 20 thousand frequencies, ignoring fractions. The minimum frequency difference that most humans can detect at mid-frequencies levels is something like 3hz (I'll have to find my textbook). So even with the difference, let's say there's only about 3,000 unique frequencies humans can hear. That's 120 frequencies from your diatonic notes, out of 3,000, to fill the requirements for noise. You are never going to fill all those frequencies, even with harmonics.

Dog-- said:
Notes may have been made by humans, but it's like math, it still applies to this kinda shit.
Click to expand...
Show us the maths. Please.

Dog-- said:
You CANNOT have a sound that can't be translated into a note. Regardless of frequency, regardless of white noise, every sound is a note.
Click to expand...
And all notes are selectively filtered noise. See where this is going?
 
Basically, people are confusing modern music with crazy weird electronic music
 
Dog-- said:
Are you kidding? White noise is definitely not every note at once
Click to expand...

Which is why I said essentially. It's basically every audible frequency played at once.
Dog-- said:
even if you made every note at once, it'd all cancel out to one other note anyways.
Click to expand...
No, it wouldn't.
Dog-- said:
There are different pitches (therefore notes) of white noise, it doesn't sound the same as every other white noise..
Click to expand...
Those are all filtered variations. White noise is as I have described.

Viperidae said:
See where this is going?
Click to expand...

Dog's boarded the one-way train to Wrongville. Next stop Defeat-Town. Now crossing the border of being able to back down without looking like a total fool.
 
Well Dog--, this is what happens when I take a sample of noise and give it a melody (normal instrument fades in over top of it, the noise is playing those same notes):
http://soundcloud.com/wavehax/noise-test

Yes you can give each note in the sampler a different version of the sample but all it's really doing is speeding up/slowing down the sample, but not actually making a real note because it's still random frequencies, just effectively fading out lower/higher ones.*

*I guess.

I think most sounds can be used musically, but I suppose the closer it gets to noise the less useful it becomes.
 
I wish I knew what was going on here.

1249037331305.gif
 
Vegeta897 said:
Haha. Do you know anything about electronic or synthesized sound? You'd be better off with a schematic of a circuit board.
Click to expand...

KineticAesthetic said:
White noise is essentially every note at once. I'm asking how you'd even attempt to annotate what I just described.
Click to expand...

I think we have different understandings of what annotated music is. It is not limited to Western music, using quarter notes and the circle of fifths.

I'm arguing that any music from any culture, electronic or otherwise, can feasibly be transcribed onto a piece of paper.

Written music requires at least one of two things: time and melody.

If you take any "electronic" song, and diagram WHEN certain effects are cued (time), and the SHAPE of what the effect is doing (melody), onto a piece of paper, you have a piece of sheet music. It doesn't matter what effect you're using.

On the paper you could simply write "Cue White Noise: Rain." Then draw a squiggly up and down, showing: "THIS IS THE WHITE NOISE. THIS IS WHERE IT WILL HAPPEN IN THE MUSIC." It doesn't matter what drawing you use, as long as something is there showing what happens when.

This applies to all ambience.
Edit: You might say "BUT JETPORKINS WIND HAS NO MELODY"

There are strong winds, and there are breezes. It is possible to write down the length of a slight breeze before it turns into a bigger, robust gust of wind. It's the concept of "getting bigger, getting smaller" that makes it melodious.

Dog understands this, why can't you all?
 
jet_porkins said:
I think we have different understandings of what annotated music is. It is not limited to Western music, using quarter notes and the circle of fifths.

I'm arguing that any music from any culture, electronic or otherwise, can feasibly be transcribed onto a piece of paper.

Written music requires at least one of two things: time and melody.

If you take any "electronic" song, and diagram WHEN certain effects are cued (time), and the SHAPE of what the effect is doing (melody), onto a piece of paper, you have a piece of sheet music. It doesn't matter what effect you're using.

On the paper you could simply write "Cue White Noise: Rain." Then draw a squiggly up and down, showing: "THIS IS THE WHITE NOISE. THIS IS WHERE IT WILL HAPPEN IN THE MUSIC." It doesn't matter what drawing you use, as long as something is there showing what happens when.

This applies to all ambience.
Edit: You might say "BUT JETPORKINS WIND HAS NO MELODY"

There are strong winds, and there are breezes. It is possible to write down the length of a slight breeze before it turns into a bigger, robust gust of wind. It's the concept of "getting bigger, getting smaller" that makes it melodious.

Dog understands this, why can't you all?
Click to expand...

Ok, wow, way to COMPLETELY change what you said.

You said previously that sheet music could describe any audible sound. I wasn't aware that "cue white noise here" was a description of white noise. :rolleyes:

I'm sure if I were to write sheet music for some of the music I listen to, with saying things like "120hz snare rush with amen break slice #3 band passed at 10khz here" you would have absolutely no idea what the song sounds like. Thus, it does not AT ALL describe the sound.

Replace "sound" with composition, sequencing, and rhythm and melody perhaps. That sheet music can describe fairly well. But describing "all audible sound"? Bullshit.
 
This is sheet music:
Solitude.png

This is sheet music:
KlavarExplain_2-Erev1.png


This is sheet music:
ttmd.jpg

This is sheet music:
Example_of_hooks_and_banners_notation.PNG
 
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