Ineffective War on Terror

[kmack]

The following numbers do NOT include incidents in Iraq and Afghanistan.


Global Terrorist attacks in 2003
175

Global Terrorist attacks in 2004
655

That is TRIPLE the amount of the previous year. With all of the money, military, and political power fueling the "War on Terror" I would think that terrorists and their attacks would be drastically reduced. I would settle for just plain reduced, but unfortunatly that doesn't seem to be the case.

TRIPLE the number of the previous year, and an all time high. If we are forced to pay for this war, can't we at least get some positive results? is that too much to ask?

triple....

 

[GiaOmerta]

I'd blame it on the Christians.

 

[kmack]

I'd blame it on the Christians.

explain.

 

[GiaOmerta]

Seem like the right thing to say.
I'd say our tactics aren't gongho enough.

We were attacked on our soil.

http://www.september11victims.com/september11victims/

Look at the names. Click on the names. Look at their faces. These people deserved better. They were fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, sons, daughters, uncles, aunts, black, white, tall, short, fat and skinny, some American, some not. They only thing they did wrong was wake up that morning and go to school, to work, catch that flight. A normal day ripped torn to hell.

Casualties

Planes:
265 people killed on four planes; 232 passengers, 25 flight attendants, 8 pilots. (Note that this total includes the 19 hijackers, who reportedly boarded the planes as passengers.)

World Trade Center:
2602 people were listed as confirmed dead (this total excludes those aboard the two aircraft). 1585 victims were identifed from the World Trade Center wreckage while 1161 victims were not identifed when DNA testing ended in February 2005.

The Pentagon:
The Pentagon reports 125 staffers killed or missing, with 121 remains recovered and identified, as of September 11, 2002. At least one person died later as a result of wounds incurred.

If we are forced to pay for this war, can't we at least get some positive results? is that too much to ask?

I agree. I want this bastards dead. Why are we feeding them? Huh? Where are the ****ing results? WHERE THE **** ARE THEY?

 

[dream431ca]

It's a consperiacy ( I can't spell ). I don't know what your government is doing to catch the terrorists but it seems that your war on terror is not working so well.

 

[kmack]

It's a consperiacy ( I can't spell ). I don't know what your government is doing to catch the terrorists but it seems that your war on terror is not working so well.

those numbers PROVE IT

triple the number of terrorist attacks, we are either making it worse, or sucking so badly at the war on terror, it is too ineffective to stop anything.

 

[dream431ca]

Terrorism is very difficult to control....maybe even impossible to control. You can stop some of the attacks..but to control all of it would be like taking over the world.

 

[gh0st]

Imagine how many terrorist attacks there would be without the war on terror. I bet you'd have a hard time using your statistics to back that up.

Speaking of statistics... where did you get these numbers from?

 

[GiaOmerta]

Like I said, our tactics aren't gongho enough.
They destroyed a symbol of capitalism. The Twin Towers. Nothing pains me more than watching them crumble. Like a dagger being driven into my chest. I wonder if we destroyed a symbol of their culture, how they'd react.

 

[gh0st]

Like I said, our tactics aren't gongho enough.
They destroyed a symbol of capitalism. The Twin Towers. Nothing pains me more than watching them crumble. Like a dagger being driven into my chest. I wonder if we destroyed a symbol of their culture, how they'd react.

I'm all for bombing their cities into rubble :bounce:

But then we'd have people complaining about water facilities and misquoting our leaders... guess we shouldnt do that :rolling:

 

[GiaOmerta]

I was talking about a structure such as the Kaaba. They destroyed the World Trade Center, does the Kaaba have equal value?

 

[gh0st]

I was talking about a structure such as the Kaaba. They destroyed the World Trade Center, does the Kaaba have equal value?

Hard to equate somebodys faith to their money... they dont balance out. If we bombed the Kaaba then we'd have about a billion enraged muslims swimming across the atlantic with c4 strapped to themselves.

 

[dream431ca]

I'm all for bombing their cities into rubble :bounce:

But then we'd have people complaining about water facilities and misquoting our leaders... guess we shouldnt do that :rolling:

Not to mention the US would be concidered a terrorist itself...bombing all their cities will not solve the problem...it will probably make most countries extremely angry.

 

[Foxtrot]

I am taking this from West Wing, but the fundamentalists are to Muslims as the KKK are to Christians. Also, the harder we fight against them the harder they fight against us, it is their dieing attack before it all ends.

 

[gh0st]

Not to mention the US would be concidered a terrorist itself...bombing all their cities will not solve the problem...it will probably make most countries extremely angry.

Of course, thats why we're a bit more subtle in our foreign policy.

I am taking this from West Wing, but the fundamentalists are to Muslims as the KKK are to Christians. Also, the harder we fight against them the harder they fight against us, it is their dieing attack before it all ends.

Agreed.

 

[CptStern]

Seem like the right thing to say.
I'd say our tactics aren't gongho enough.

We were attacked on our soil.

http://www.september11victims.com/september11victims/

Look at the names. Click on the names. Look at their faces. These people deserved better. They were fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, sons, daughters, uncles, aunts, black, white, tall, short, fat and skinny, some American, some not. They only thing they did wrong was wake up that morning and go to school, to work, catch that flight. A normal day ripped torn to hell.

Casualties

Planes:
265 people killed on four planes; 232 passengers, 25 flight attendants, 8 pilots. (Note that this total includes the 19 hijackers, who reportedly boarded the planes as passengers.)

World Trade Center:
2602 people were listed as confirmed dead (this total excludes those aboard the two aircraft). 1585 victims were identifed from the World Trade Center wreckage while 1161 victims were not identifed when DNA testing ended in February 2005.

The Pentagon:
The Pentagon reports 125 staffers killed or missing, with 121 remains recovered and identified, as of September 11, 2002. At least one person died later as a result of wounds incurred.


I agree. I want this bastards dead. Why are we feeding them? Huh? Where are the ****ing results? WHERE THE **** ARE THEY?

3000+ is nothing compared to 500,000 CHILDREN


"Lesley Stahl on U.S. sanctions against Iraq: We have heard that a half million children have died. I mean, that's more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it?

Secretary of State Madeleine Albright: I think this is a very hard choice, but the price--we think the price is worth it.

--60 Minutes (5/12/96)



"These children deserved better. They were sons, daughters, all innocent of any crime. They only thing they did wrong was that they were born iraqi. A short life, a lingering death from preventable disease, thanks america, for turning a blind eye, thanks america for letting this happen, thanks america for doing this to me"





no one ****ing cares about the 500,000 innocent children that died because of american greed ...I will always remind you out there that you did this ...every single time one of screams about the injustices of 9/11 or the injustices of US soldiers being killed in iraq I WILL THROW THIS IN YOUR FACE




/rant ...sorry but I cant take the ****ing hypocracy anymore (not aimed at you personally but where the indignation against your country for doing this?)

 

[dream431ca]

3000+ is nothing compared to 500,000 CHILDREN


"Lesley Stahl on U.S. sanctions against Iraq: We have heard that a half million children have died. I mean, that's more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it?

Secretary of State Madeleine Albright: I think this is a very hard choice, but the price--we think the price is worth it.

--60 Minutes (5/12/96)



"These children deserved better. They were sons, daughters, all innocent of any crime. They only thing they did wrong was that they were born iraqi. A short life, a lingering death from preventable disease, thanks america, for turning a blind eye, thanks america for letting this happen, thanks america for doing this to me"





no one ****ing cares about the 500,000 innocent children that died because of american greed ...I will always remind you out there that you did this ...every single time one of screams about the injustices of 9/11 or the injustices of US soldiers being killed in iraq I WILL THROW THIS IN YOUR FACE




/rant ...sorry but I cant take the ****ing hypocracy anymore (not aimed at you personally but where the indignation against your country for doing this?)

NOW that is something I totally agree on. It was WORTH IT?????? The US is looking like a terrorist itself more and more and more and.....

 

[Foxtrot]

3000+ is nothing compared to 500,000 CHILDREN


"Lesley Stahl on U.S. sanctions against Iraq: We have heard that a half million children have died. I mean, that's more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it?

Secretary of State Madeleine Albright: I think this is a very hard choice, but the price--we think the price is worth it.

--60 Minutes (5/12/96)



"These children deserved better. They were sons, daughters, all innocent of any crime. They only thing they did wrong was that they were born iraqi. A short life, a lingering death from preventable disease, thanks america, for turning a blind eye, thanks america for letting this happen, thanks america for doing this to me"





no one ****ing cares about the 500,000 innocent children that died because of american greed ...I will always remind you out there that you did this ...every single time one of screams about the injustices of 9/11 or the injustices of US soldiers being killed in iraq I WILL THROW THIS IN YOUR FACE




/rant ...sorry but I cant take the ****ing hypocracy anymore (not aimed at you personally but where the indignation against your country for doing this?)

You could argue about the context of that quote, what she took the number as (she may have heard another number) or if that number is even real. There is no proof of that many dead, how would that many even die? Not from the Coalition.

 

[CptStern]

/me rams head into wall repeatedly till blackness descends ...ah sweet blackness

 

[Foxtrot]

* CptStern rams head into wall repeatedly till blackness descends ...ah sweet blackness

Yes! One less fanatic.

 

[Tr0n]

If you have a source for that 500,000 dead...then just post it stern to shut them up.

 

[Foxtrot]

If you have a source for that 500,000 dead...then just post it stern to shut them up.

There isn't one, because either the US government is hiding their dead that good and shutting almost everyone up...or they didn't die.

 

[gh0st]

Who would have guessed that the most pompous of them all would do exactly what I said no less than 6 posts ago.

I have said 5,000 times that I regret it. It was a stupid statement. I never should have made it and if everybody else that has ever made a statement they regret, would stand up, there would be a lot of people standing. I have many, many times said it and I wish that people would report that I have said it. I wrote it in my book that it was a stupid statement.

Its time to quit beating the dead goat stern, its getting ye olde. She apologized, you need to get over your god damn high horsed bullshit.

Oh yes - and that vaunted 500,000 number. Now, let me think here... why should (the united nations, no less) put a sanction upon iraq... hmm... could it have been?... no... wait! Didnt they just... invade Kuwait? OH RIGHT! Saddam invaded Kuwait, got his ASS KICKED BY AMERICAN FORCES, and you have the ****ing GALL to blame America for 500K preventable deaths that Saddam hussein caused? HAHAHA. Thank god not every flat foreheaded liberal like yourself has the absolutely shitty world view that you do.

PS. Saddam Killed 300000 people himself in cold blood. He MURDERED THEM, and you are blaming us because he steals all the nations resources for himself and leaves his nation impovrished? HAHAHAH.

Ah here we are:

UNICEF estimated that more than a half-million children died. Repression by the government of Saddam Hussein, including displacement of Kurds and Marsh Arabs, added to the humanitarian crisis.

(globalpolicy.org)
Of course, stern would never post something that would in any way correlate someone ELSE to the suffering of the iraqis... no sirree.

 

[GiaOmerta]

no one ****ing cares about the 500,000 innocent children that died because of american greed ...I will always remind you out there that you did this ...every single time one of screams about the injustices of 9/11 or the injustices of US soldiers being killed in iraq I WILL THROW THIS IN YOUR FACE

I love children, and it's unfortunate they had to perish. I am not responsiblity for their death. The responsiblity lies else where. I will be responsible for the deaths of those who have wronged us and those who stand in the way of progress.

 

[gh0st]

I love children, and it's unfortunate they had to perish. I am not responsiblity for their death. The responsiblity lies else where. I will be responsible for the deaths of those who have wronged us and those who stand in the way of progress.

Dont bother. Some people either get it, or they dont :upstare:

 

[oldagerocker]

I'm all for bombing their cities into rubble :bounce:

terrorists dont have cities by the way...

everytime the 9/11 attacks are used as an excuse for bombing another country to shit, i cant stop thinking of them conspiracy theories flying around on prisonplanet.com, sure the guys in it for the money, but they are all backed up facts about the event. Its sad so many people died, but in no way is it justified by the bombing and shooting of civilians, or even Saddams army.

To me it seems that the 9/11 events are used by america as a politcal foothold into military action, which just isn't justified, or legal. Every human life is sacred, you cant just go out and kill someone else to even up the odds, thats stupid.

 

[gh0st]

terrorists dont have cities by the way...

Yes but cities have terrorists in them*





*If you actually think this isnt in jest, you are incorrect.

 

[kmack]

Imagine how many terrorist attacks there would be without the war on terror. I bet you'd have a hard time using your statistics to back that up.

Speaking of statistics... where did you get these numbers from?

Bitch dont tell me ill have a hard time backing up statistics with some bullshit you just made up

"Imagine how many terrorist attacks there would be without the war on terror" what is that shit? tell me to back up stuff with statistics??/ I DID, you back that up mother ****er, and i will eat my words.

THOSE STATISTICS you mother****er are from a US Government report just released. Compiled by the US National Counter Terrorism center.

You are fighting fact (that the attacks tripled) with speculations (that maybe they might not have)

eat shit and die.

 

[Tr0n]

Bitch dont tell me ill have a hard time backing up statistics with some bullshit you just made up

"Imagine how many terrorist attacks there would be without the war on terror" what is that shit? tell me to back up stuff with statistics??/ I DID, you back that up mother ****er, and i will eat my words.

THOSE STATISTICS you mother****er are from a US Government report just released. Compiled by the US National Counter Terrorism center.

You are fighting fact (that the attacks tripled) with speculations (that maybe they might not have)

eat shit and die.

Someone is grumpy today.

 

[CptStern]

Who would have guessed that the most pompous of them all would do exactly what I said no less than 6 posts ago.



Its time to quit beating the dead goat stern, its getting ye olde. She apologized, you need to get over your god damn high horsed bullshit.

she apologised? no she didnt she REGRETS saying it but she doesnt feel as if it was wrong ..funny how at no time does she dispute the number or the fact that she admitted complicity when she said "WE"

Oh yes - and that vaunted 500,000 number. Now, let me think here... why should (the united nations, no less) put a sanction upon iraq... hmm... could it have been?... no... wait! Didnt they just... invade Kuwait? OH RIGHT! Saddam invaded Kuwait, got his ASS KICKED BY AMERICAN FORCES, and you have the ****ing GALL to blame America for 500K preventable deaths that Saddam hussein caused? HAHAHA. Thank god not every flat foreheaded liberal like yourself has the absolutely shitty world view that you do.

funny how you're deferring blame and taking absolutelyu no responsibility even though I've proved time and again that it was the US' doing and no one else


LOOK AT THIS GODDAM DE-CLASSIFIED DOCUMENT THAT PROVES THE US, NOT THE UN, NOT NATO, NOT JAPAN OR FREAKIN HONDURAS, THE US OF A PURPOSEFULLY ENGINEERED THE DEATHS OF CHILDREN

PS. Saddam Killed 300000 people himself in cold blood. He MURDERED THEM, and you are blaming us because he steals all the nations resources for himself and leaves his nation impovrished? HAHAHAH.

he's a maniac, murderer and a despot ..what's your excuse?

Ah here we are:
(globalpolicy.org)
Of course, stern would never post something that would in any way correlate someone ELSE to the suffering of the iraqis... no sirree.

source? why didnt you include the source? too incriminating?


here's some sources for you:


"assessment is that major disease outbreaks currently have not occurred in Baghdad or Basrah. For severe outbreaks to develop, a protracted war or more extensive collateral damage would have to occur.

However, conditions are favorable for communicable disease
outbreaks, particularly in major urban areas affected by
coalition bombing. Data necessary for determining expected
numbers and rates of cases are not available, and any estimate
would be totally unreliable.


MOST LIKELY DISEASES DURING THE NEXT 60-90 DAYS (DESCENDING
ORDER)

- Diarrheal diseases (particularly children)
- Acute respiratory illnesses (colds and influenza)
- Typhoid
- Hepatitis A (particularly children)
- Measles, diphtheria, and pertussis (particularly children)
- Meningitis, including meningococcal (particularly children)
- Cholera (possible, but less likely)



MOST LIKELY DISEASES DURING THE FOLLOWING 90-180 DAYS

- Diarrheal diseases (particularly children)
- Acute respiratory illnesses (colds)
- Typhoid
- Hepatitis A (particularly children)
- Conjunctivitis (Eye infections)
- Measles, diphtheria, and pertussis (particularly children)
- Cutaneous leishmaniasis
- Meningococcal meningitis (particularly children)
- Malaria
- Cholera (possible, but less likely)




dont take your governments word? lets see what a international team of doctors and scientists had to say about the conditions of iraq shortly after the war circa 1991


"Based on these interviews, it is estimated that the mortality rate of children under five years of age is 380 per cent greater today than before the onset of the Gulf Crisis"



what's the outlook? mind you this is still 1991 so the full effects havent taken place:



Nearly 29 per cent of the children assessed were malnourished under one or more of these criteria. According to the World Health Organization, there are a total of 3.3 million children under five years of age in Iraq. Applying the 29 per cent figure to this total number leads us to estimate that over 900,000 Iraqi children are malnourished.



On the basis of in-depth interviews of 214 Iraqi children of primary school age, two professional child psychologists report levels of anxiety, stress, and pathological behavior unprecedented in their fifteen year experience in this field. For example, nearly two-thirds of children interviewed believe that they will not survive to become adults.


Diarrheal disease, related to Iraq’s inability to treat sewage, and the reduced ability to purify the population’s water supply, has also increased. These two factors have likely contributed most significantly to the increase in mortality among children.


source




la piece de resistance!!!:


"Tony Hall, Democratic Representative from Ohio, who visited Iraq in the summer of 2000 as the first member of the US Congress to visit Iraq since 1991, wrote on his return: The prime killer of children under five years of age - diarrhoeal diseases -has reached epidemic proportions, and they now strike four times more often than they did in 1990... Holds on contracts for the water and sanitation sector are a prime reason for the increases in sickness and death. Of the eighteen contracts, all but one hold was placed by the US government. The contracts are for purification chemicals, chlorinators, chemical dosing pumps, water tankers, and other equipment... I urge you to weigh your decision against the disease and death that are the unavoidable result of not having safe drinking water and minimum levels of sanitation."

 

[kmack]

double post.

 

[Foxtrot]

stern, ghost is some 15 year old rich kid, he doesnt have a job, or a life, or responsibilities. his world views are shaped by mommy and daddy, when he grows up, he will understand.

That is pretty funny coming from you.

 

[Tr0n]

Ouch a little harsh...

 

[kmack]

That is pretty funny coming from you.

and who, may I ask, am I?


look at the numbers. TRIPLING of terrorist attacks. please get on topic. i deleted my post before you responded. let it go.

 

[Foxtrot]

and who, may I ask, am I?

not someone who can play WoW all day (looks at foxtrots fat coke sipping ass).

look at the numbers. TRIPLING of terrorist attacks.

I am fat? Hmm...I didn't know that, thank you for pointing that out though. I also did not know that I sipped coke out of my ass, or even had possesion of coke.

 

[kmack]

I am fat? Hmm...I didn't know that, thank you for pointing that out though.

edited, im sorry, just get back on topic. my fault for derailing.

here is where i left off...

Originally Posted by gh0st
Imagine how many terrorist attacks there would be without the war on terror. I bet you'd have a hard time using your statistics to back that up.

Speaking of statistics... where did you get these numbers from?


Bitch dont tell me ill have a hard time backing up statistics with some bullshit you just made up

"Imagine how many terrorist attacks there would be without the war on terror" what is that shit? tell me to back up stuff with statistics??/ I DID, you back that up mother ****er, and i will eat my words.

THOSE STATISTICS you mother****er are from a US Government report just released. Compiled by the US National Counter Terrorism center.

You are fighting fact (that the attacks tripled) with speculations (that maybe they might not have)

eat shit and die.

 

[gh0st]

Youre right. It was speculation. I'm pointing out that theres no way to tell whether or not war has any impact on them. Maybe it IS having a HUGE impact on the number of terrorist attacks, YOU or I simply dont know that, so we arent in a position to use one dimensional "statistics" (of which you still havent shown the source) to try and prove a point.

By the way - drop the attitude, its not helping anybody. And I do have a job.

 

[gh0st]

she apologised? no she didnt she REGRETS saying it but she doesnt feel as if it was wrong ..funny how at no time does she dispute the number or the fact that she admitted complicity when she said "WE"

Cant ever be good enough for you can they. I'm sure youd accept Ayman Al-Zawahiri's apology, but Madeline Albright is beyond reproach.

funny how you're deferring blame and taking absolutelyu no responsibility even though I've proved time and again that it was the US' doing and no one else

Wait... werent we discussing UN issued sanctions?

LOOK AT THIS GODDAM DE-CLASSIFIED DOCUMENT THAT PROVES THE US, NOT THE UN, NOT NATO, NOT JAPAN OR FREAKIN HONDURAS, THE US OF A PURPOSEFULLY ENGINEERED THE DEATHS OF CHILDREN

Annndddd there it is again. You brought a new topic up, dont get that insolent tone, allow me to respond. You previously mentioned the sanctions, no need to act all impatient. Ive never read through this document, I've always taken your word because I assumed you were an honest individual.

I did a search for children - nothing. So... are you going to say we somehow purposefully engineered the deaths of children? You almost make America out to be some kind of monster... I dont understand why you would.

All I see here is that the water treatment facilities under Saddam were pretty shitty. Whats your point?

he's a maniac, murderer and a despot ..what's your excuse?

Excuse for what? "Engineering the deaths of Iraqi children"? Spare me.

source? why didnt you include the source? too incriminating?

I gave the source. Googling the text would bring you the answer - its the very first entry.

This is strange... there was never a sanction on Medicine or other supplied of those nature to Iraq, so Medicine was still entering into Iraq as was food (and I assume water) under the oil-for-food program. Please show me the links to where we actually destroyed the water treatment facilities in Iraq during the 1st gulf war, I'm curious to see their context.

dont take your governments word? lets see what a international team of doctors and scientists had to say about the conditions of iraq shortly after the war circa 1991

I'm sure they were pretty bad. Uh, they were being opressed and massacred by a brutal regime?

On the basis of in-depth interviews of 214 Iraqi children of primary school age, two professional child psychologists report levels of anxiety, stress, and pathological behavior unprecedented in their fifteen year experience in this field. For example, nearly two-thirds of children interviewed believe that they will not survive to become adults.

All this because they dont have purified water? (According to your link, Iraqis prefer bottled water anyway) Maybe this is because they are afraid of being carried off into the night by some of Saddams henchman.

Diarrheal disease, related to Iraq’s inability to treat sewage, and the reduced ability to purify the population’s water supply, has also increased. These two factors have likely contributed most significantly to the increase in mortality among children.

Increased from what. The "declassified document" you posted said they were pretty shitty systems before.

 

[CptStern]

what a complete waste of time ...nvm

 

[Sainku]

Bitch dont tell me ill have a hard time backing up statistics with some bullshit you just made up

"Imagine how many terrorist attacks there would be without the war on terror" what is that shit? tell me to back up stuff with statistics??/ I DID, you back that up mother ****er, and i will eat my words.

THOSE STATISTICS you mother****er are from a US Government report just released. Compiled by the US National Counter Terrorism center.

You are fighting fact (that the attacks tripled) with speculations (that maybe they might not have)

eat shit and die.

I know this is off-topic but...

I may not agree with everyone on here, but I respect them. I do not respect you. Your foul launguage, insults, and pointless threads have greatly contributed to the overall quality of the politics fourm which is unfortuneatley not very high anymore. I'm tired of digging through your profanity and your trash trying to find some form of comprehensible purpose serving thought. Please for the love god, freedom, peace whatever the hell it is you believe in lose the attitude. Just type what is nessacery and keep the rest to yourself, in an effort to make this place into somwhere I can come and read and debate without feeling the urge to stick my head in a blender.