IR Rifle vs Unknown Gun (same weapon?)

[phantomdesign]

The current debate is whether the “IR Rifle” is the same thing as the “Unknown Weapon.” We’ll definitely know when HL2 is out, but might as well debate it anyways.

The IR Rifle’s model can be clearest seen in the 2003 Tunnels video. The Unknown weapon can be seen clearest at the beginning of the 2004 strider videos. There’s also a blues-shirted guy near the stairs/ramp in the first 2004 strider video, and a white shirted guy in the later 2004 strider video who’s near where you enter the battle, and another who’s hiding behind that ramp.

If they are indeed the same gun, the gun would be one where you can build it or replace parts. Otherwise I’m 100% sure they’re different weapons.

Similarities
According to the HUD icon of the IR Rifle and the Geometry of the unknown gun, they have the same stock. (could be an error or coincidence. Many weapons can have their stock changed.).

They both feature a piece at the front that is somewhat triangular.

They both feature multiple “barrels” that stick out in front of the triangular piece.

Differences
Firing Types
"IR Rifle" Primary=Redish Flare, 1 unit energy Secondary =Plasma-blob (or something) that evaporates enemies and bounces off objects, 20 energy.

"Unknown" Primary=Regular bullets (9mm or something) Secondary= (just a guess) ?Grenade?

Things sticking out the front
"IR Rifle" There are black non-tube objects on the advanced rifle which rotate (tunnels video) after you fire.

"Unknown" There are chrome tubes that do not rotate after you fire.

Triangular pieces at front:
"IR Rifle" Features black front piece that looks like it stores ammunition. Piece is not actually triangular.

"Unknown" Features a chrome piece that appears to be used to deflect bullets, block from grenade launching exhaust, or act as support when laying down. Piece is definitely triangular.

General Geometry and Proportions
From my 3D modeling experience, I can easily say from experience that the proportions and physical features are in different places, different shapes, different sizes, and different colors, different/missing pieces, etc. The models are as different as night and day.
----
My Vote is that they’re “Different weapons, 100% sure.” what’s yours?

 

[BabyHeadCrab]

cool thread, im going with different gun though. I think.

 

[Citizen 1150421]

dude this is being talk about in another thread

 

[phantomdesign]

Correct, but the discusssion is kind of jumbled with other topics. I thought it would be best to split the topics.

EDIT: You can find the earlier discussion here -> http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?t=23929

 

[Citizen 1150421]

ahh in that case i don't think its that same weapon because you have have seen it being used by the npc. How ever if you rewind the clip from that same spot (with the dude holding the weapon in question) to the begining of that scene, you will notice another npc on the left holding a heavy weapon which looks alot like a machine rail gun of some sorts i m not quiet sure.

 

[phantomdesign]

Citizen 1150421
Hmmmm....I missed that one. It's too hard to get a decent screen shot of it. It sort of looks like on of hte SMG's in counterstrike (forgot the name, holds 50 rounds). I'd need a clearer video to be sure.

 

[Mr. Redundant]

its the same gun, your marking the metal at the wrong angle.. I never had any doubt from the first time I saw it.
as for the different fire modes.. secondary and primary fire?

 

[phantomdesign]

The first time I saw it I thought they were the same...it was the third or fourth time that I noticed the difference. The IR Rifle seems to be a too powerful of a gun to give to average NPC's anyways. It looks like a weapon developed by your scientist friends.

Primary and secondary fire on the IR rifle is a red flare and an energy blob. Unless there are 3 firing modes...?

 

[Dr. Freeman]

Citizen 1150421
Hmmmm....I missed that one. It's too hard to get a decent screen shot of it. It sort of looks like on of hte SMG's in counterstrike (forgot the name, holds 50 rounds). I'd need a clearer video to be sure.

are u talking about the p90 here? it holds 50 rounds.

 

[Citizen 1150421]

are u talking about the p90 here? it holds 50 rounds.

yeah thats probably the one ...

 

[phantomdesign]

|Looks like I'm loosing

Definitely Different Weapons 1 7.14%
Maybe/Probably Different Weapons 2 14.29%
Don’t Know 0 0%
Maybe/Probably Same Weapon 3 21.43%
Definitely Same Weapon 3 21.43%

If Definitely = 1.5 and Probably = 1 and Different = + and Same = -

[1x1.5 + 2x1 + 0x0 + 3x-1 + 3x-1.5] / 9 = -0.444 Average

 

[Gordon'sFreeman]

its a god damn RPG ffs.

 

[aku ankka]

Has anyone ever thought that maybe the IR-rifle doesn´t have primary and secondary fire but instead has different types of ammo that revolves around?

 

[Gordon'sFreeman]

ok i looked at the stupid vid, its just a machine gun.

 

[phantomdesign]

Has anyone ever thought that maybe the IR-rifle doesn´t have primary and secondary fire but instead has different types of ammo that revolves around?

Firing Types
"IR Rifle" Primary=Redish Flare, 1 unit energy Secondary =Plasma-blob (or something) that evaporates enemies and bounces off objects, 20 energy.

Note my earlier statment and take a look at the HUD. It seems that your theory is unlikely.

ok i looked at the stupid vid, its just a machine gun.

Probably some sort of machine gun, automatic rifle, or SMG.

Definitely Different Weapons 3 15.00%
Maybe/Probably Different Weapons 4 20.00%
Don’t Know 0 0%
Maybe/Probably Same Weapon 3 15.00%
Definitely Same Weapon 4 20.00%
Cheese? 6 30.00%

Hmmm....looks like cheese is winning.

 

[aku ankka]

Oh well, the structure just seemed to point to the different types of ammo but I didn´t notice those tubes rolling after firing.

 

[phantomdesign]

Yeah, it is a fairly large gun which seems to have multiple sections. I think one part is for the flare and the other is for the energy blob.

 

[Axyon]

Perhaps they dropped the Incendiary Rounds from last year, and made it just the Plasma Cannon as primary fire, and the energy/bullet firing machine gun as secondary. We've seen no evidence this year to prove that it fires IR rounds.

I definitely think it's the same weapon.

 

[NeLi]

Yeah, same weapon.

 

[Munro]

Anyone notice something else as well? It has the same sort of 'power up' sound when it fires and has the same effect on the soldiers as a Strider cannon

 

[phantomdesign]

Perhaps they dropped the Incendiary Rounds from last year, and made it just the Plasma Cannon as primary fire, and the energy/bullet firing machine gun as secondary. We've seen no evidence this year to prove that it fires IR rounds.

I definitely think it's the same weapon.

I think that would promote 2 kinds of ammunition. It sort of looks like 2 guns in one.

Anyone notice something else as well? It has the same sort of 'power up' sound when it fires and has the same effect on the soldiers as a Strider cannon

Yeah, noticed that

 

[Gordon'sFreeman]

place holder...

 

[SSJ4Vegita2002]

Well, I think there are 2 possibilities.

1. They are the same weapon - The energy blob that desintegrates enemies is the main firing mode, and the secondary is the machine gun that fires like the strider machinegun [you can see in the video that the NPC's have a machinegun like this].

2. They are different weapons - The first is the IR rifle which can fire IR rounds and the energy blob. The second is the NPC weapon that is just a heavy machinegun like the one striders use.

I think the first is more plausible because both functions would be based off the Strider technology [the desintegration more and machinegun mode]. The second could also be possible because there does seem to be a difference between the 2 in the screenshots.

[EDIT]
After looking over the screenshots i believe my first point is correct. They seem to have the same basic design, although that is an old screenshot form last year. Can anyone get a screen of the weapon from this year? [when gordon is inside the house and fires at the combines using the energy blob, that would make a better comparison.]

 

[<RJMC>]

I hav a stupid reazon

if you see the IR is big cuz it hav a large ammonation charger
and the unknow weapon looks that dont hav that big ammo charger
and maybe hav a diferent more litlle ammo charger

that teory is not bad right?

 

[phantomdesign]

Hmmm..... looks like people are now siding with different weapons. It makes perfect sense to me that they’re different weapons.

 

[JunkieXL]

I think they're different weapons too.

The 'unknown' one just looks like a heavy machine gun to me.

 

[clarky003]

Anyone notice something else as well? It has the same sort of 'power up' sound when it fires and has the same effect on the soldiers as a Strider cannon

probably because its a combine weapon that your using.

anyway its all pretty self explainitory when it comes to the weapons function,,

its all in the name..

the Combine Inciniary rifle, (typo?) , Inciniary ,, = to burn things :O

weve seen two funtions,, probably primary and alt fire right..

1. a flare that lights people on fire, (slowly Incinirating them)

and 2. an alt mode that completely incinirates people with some kind of charged human seeking projectile, (it bounces around if youve noticed, probably the same ammo type , just fired off in a more powerful more consuming way)..

key word here, Inciniary

this weeks key words on Sesame Street... kids .... was brought to you by the letter I

 

[iamaelephant]

It's incendiary fool.

Clealy different weapons.

 

[clarky003]

ah, an honest typo . well you get the point anyhoo, fool

 

[Dsty2001]

I believe the IR Cannon was took off a dead Strider and turned into a carriable weapon.

 

[phantomdesign]

I believe the IR Cannon was took off a dead Strider and turned into a carriable weapon.[/quote
beams vs projectiles

They may be based on similar technology, but aren't the same.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

It does look like the guns are the same.
It can shoot strider-like blue machine-gun bullets, or the charge-up disintegrator.
I'd bet it's a portable version of the strider's weaponry.

The flare from the first version could be a placeholder for the flare gun the combine used, or just cut out of the game.

 

[EVIL]

those pics in the first picture prove nothing because it is shot from 2 diffrent sides, left side @ fist shot, right side at 2th shot. Therefore that chrome triangle thingy is obviously missing at the place you are pointing at because its on the other side, and also the thickness, have you ever heard of perspective? It looks alot thicker from the player view then it does from the viewpoint on the 2th shot. This is because of that wonderfull thing called perspective.

It is 100% the same weapon.

 

[phantomdesign]

I am quite familiar with perspective issues (natural ability enhanced by 3D modeling experience). I could even create a 3D model of each of the weapons if I wanted to (except the stock of the IR rifle). Those weapons aren't anywhere close to the same models.

 

[Razor]

They are exactly the same weapon, you have just messed up the comparison notes and pictures.

 

[CrazyHarij]

They are the same weapon.

 

[<RJMC>]

I made this comparision
and I hav to say that THEY ARE DIFERENT WEAPONS just that

red: diferences
green: similarities

 

[Paintballer]

It must be a different weapon. The gun the guy is holding looks like a single-function weapon, that uses the three prongs to maybe charge energy or something. Although the video (if you listen/watch) shows the guys next to you shooting a machine gun and an rpg, obviously its not an rpg. I say they are DEFINATELY different guns, either an energy weapon or a heavy machinegun. Most likely a machinegun.

 

[Murray_H]

Is this unknown gun the same one as Gordon fires in the sequence with the houses and rollermines (about 6:44 on the video)? If it is, then it is the same gun

 

[wonkers]

You guys are on gutter crack. Those are different weapons. I don't want to know all the weapong that they have in half-life because it ruins the game. I wonder from the E3 demo whether or not they will revamp a lot of their weps.