Iraq Election Results

[satch919]

Yeah, I was surprised. I thought for sure that Allawi would be named as the new leader of Iraq.

Look now though. They chose a religious cleric who has ties to Iran. They're really heading for democracy now aren't they? Even some government officials have said that it's not who they would want to be in power.

The U.S. has a hard enough time passing laws that everyone can agree on. How do expect groups who violently oppose eachother to agree on important policies? Its going to be very difficult for the new leaders to achieve what they want.

We shall see in due time.

 

[Bodacious]

Yeah, I was surprised. I thought for sure that Allawi would be named as the new leader of Iraq.

If I recall correctly this is the second time you have been surprised about the goings on in Iraq. The first one being the elections not being a huge debacle.

Look now though. They chose a religious cleric who has ties to Iran. They're really heading for democracy now aren't they? Even some government officials have said that it's not who they would want to be in power.

What is the primary religeous affiliation in Iraq? Shi'ite
What is the primary religeous affiliation in Iran? Shi'te

It was never a secret that they would have ties with Iran.

The U.S. has a hard enough time passing laws that everyone can agree on. How do expect groups who violently oppose eachother to agree on important policies? Its going to be very difficult for the new leaders to achieve what they want.

We shall see in due time.

The shi'ia are primarily peaceful. I don't see any of them attacking sunni's unless it is part of a coaltion thing. I think shi'ite leadership will do Iraq good.

 

[burner69]

If I recall correctly this is the second time you have been surprised about the goings on in Iraq. The first one being the elections not being a huge debacle.

Don't be an ass Bod, just cuz he's suprised dosen't mean he wants Iraq to f**k up, which it seems you are implying here.

 

[Bodacious]

Don't be an ass Bod, just cuz he's suprised dosen't mean he wants Iraq to f**k up, which it seems you are implying here.

Where did I say he wants Iraq to mess up? I didn't did I? Don't you think it is a little bit unfair to cal me an ass based off your own interpritation of my words?

 

[burner69]

Where did I say he wants Iraq to mess up? I didn't did I? Don't you think it is a little bit unfair to cal me an ass based off your own interpritation of my words?

My apologies if you didn't mean it. But the way you put it across sounded very much like that was what you were implying.

Just out of interest, why did you say it then?

 

[satch919]

If I recall correctly this is the second time you have been surprised about the goings on in Iraq. The first one being the elections not being a huge debacle.



What is the primary religeous affiliation in Iraq? Shi'ite
What is the primary religeous affiliation in Iran? Shi'te

It was never a secret that they would have ties with Iran.



The shi'ia are primarily peaceful. I don't see any of them attacking sunni's unless it is part of a coaltion thing. I think shi'ite leadership will do Iraq good.

You sure do know how to be an asshole don't you?

Geez, I just said that I was surprised and you jump on it like a fly on shit.

The first time was a surprise in a good way. Dealing with the Iraq elections.

This time its a surprise but not in a good way. The cleric is going to put religious laws into effect. Thats not a democracy if you make laws based on a single religion. I know Sistani has said that he won't do that but I think that its bullshit myself. People here in America hate it when the separation between church and state has been breached. With good reason too.

Besides, I have every right to be pessimistic as you do being optimistic. I just chose not to buy into the media's propaganda.


Bodacious, Im tired of you buying into all of the Administration's bullshit. They lied to you and your country and you are still trying to convince yourself that your President can do no wrong. Do you ever disagree with anything that your President says?

He and his corporate goons are screwing over the American people without so much as batting an eye. And what do you do? You chose to be blind to whats really going on because reality might be too hard for you to deal with. I spit on your President.

 

[Bodacious]

You sure do know how to be an asshole don't you?

I can be whatever you perceive me to be.

Geez, I just said that I was surprised and you jump on it like a fly on shit.

The first time was a surprise in a good way. Dealing with the Iraq elections.

This time its a surprise but not in a good way.

Surprise! Either way, your expectations were not reality. Maybe it is time to re-evaluate your expectations?

The cleric is going to put religious laws into effect. Thats not a democracy if you make laws based on a single religion. I know Sistani has said that he won't do that but I think that its bullshit myself. People here in America hate it when the separation between church and state has been breached. With good reason too.

Source?

Besides, I have every right to be pessimistic as you do being optimistic. I just chose not to buy into the media's propaganda.

How do you know I am buying into the propaganda?

Bodacious, Im tired of you buying into all of the Administration's bullshit. They lied to you and your country and you are still trying to convince yourself that your President can do no wrong. Do you ever disagree with anything that your President says?

1. I don't believe they lied. Believing Bush lied about WMD is the same as believing Aristotle lied when he siad the world was flat.

2. Sure, the border situation needs some serious attention.

He and his corporate goons are screwing over the American people without so much as batting an eye. And what do you do? You chose to be blind to whats really going on because reality might be too hard for you to deal with. I spit on your President.

I support capitalism. How do you think the corporat goons are screwing america over?

My perception is differnt than yours, obviously.

 

[burner69]

I can be whatever you perceive me to be.

So what did you mean by your statement?

Surprise! Either way, your expectations were not reality. Maybe it is time to re-evaluate your expectations?

And WMD in Iraq was not found, have you shifted your expectations to incorporate Saddam never being a threat?

How do you know I am buying into the propaganda?

He didn't say that.

1. I don't believe they lied. Believing Bush lied about WMD is the same as believing Aristotle lied when he siad the world was flat.

But he should shift his expectations though, right? And when Aristotle said the world was flat 14'000 innocents weren't killed, an army of anti-western groups didn't rise up and attack us, and innocent people weren't imprisoned and tortured.

2. Sure, the border situation needs some serious attention.

Yip.

I support capitalism. How do you think the corporat goons are screwing america over?

Depends what corporation we're talking about.
Maccy D's is hard selling very unhealthy and addictive food to young people.
Companies like addidas are setting up factories in poor countries to take advantage of poor labour, letting them work in terrible conditions with very little pay, and then selling the trainers, through hard pushing advertising, for large amounts of money.
Energy companies are holding the patents for less polluting, and cheaper energy so they can continue to charge high prices for fossil fuels whilst simultaneously polluting the environment.

My perception is differnt than yours, obviously.

 

[Sainku]

You sure do know how to be an asshole don't you?



This time its a surprise but not in a good way. The cleric is going to put religious laws into effect. Thats not a democracy if you make laws based on a single religion. I know Sistani has said that he won't do that but I think that its bullshit myself. People here in America hate it when the separation between church and state has been breached. With good reason too.

I doubt this will happen, while the shiites now control a large portion of the government other religions and political parties still have seats in the government, you know...like a democracy.

 

[GhostFox]

I actually heard someone on tv the other day say that they hope the whole Iraq situation fails spectacularly simply so they can see the US be wrong. What a sad, sad, attitude. I hope it doesn't spread much.

 

[satch919]

I can be whatever you perceive me to be.



Surprise! Either way, your expectations were not reality. Maybe it is time to re-evaluate your expectations?



Source?



How do you know I am buying into the propaganda?



1. I don't believe they lied. Believing Bush lied about WMD is the same as believing Aristotle lied when he siad the world was flat.

2. Sure, the border situation needs some serious attention.



I support capitalism. How do you think the corporat goons are screwing america over?

My perception is differnt than yours, obviously.

Yeah, and I percieve you to be an asshole. Im sure you're a good person for the most part and you want whats best for your country, but damn. Do you have to be so freakin ignorant about it?

Secondly, my perceptions were off. I can admit that and I have in the past. But by and large, we remain in the same mess that I and countless other Americans had predicted. Change my expectations? No. I can hope for the best but expect the worst. I keep an open mind about it. One election doesn't change the fact that we went to war because of lies and deceit. Does one good thing(the election) just outweigh the entire war and why we're there? In my eyes, no. Does this election bring back 1462 dead American soldiers or how about the 10,000+ without legs, arms, hands, etc? Its just not worth it.

About Sistani and you wanting a source. It was on the net and in newspapers. The Los Angeles Times carried the story and Im sure other countless news agencies covered it as well. Here's a link to a couple that I found: http://www.khaleejtimes.com/Display...ocusoniraq_February54.xml&section=focusoniraq

And another one: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6967119/

You're always welcome to look yourself. Let me guess. If Rush Limbaugh didn't say it, then it must not be important or true, right? Here's an interesting fact. My family was, at one time, related to Rush Limbaugh. Kind of ironic huh? I'll try to see if i can find the pic of him with some people from my family.

I don't believe they lied. Believing Bush lied about WMD is the same as believing Aristotle lied when he siad the world was flat.

You're comparing Bush to Aristotle? Please. No, its not the same.

Bush's Administration and America has eyes all around the world. You're telling me that the most powerful nation on the Earth wasn't able to determine whether or not Saddam had biological or any other kind of weapons? We have the technology to look throughout the cosmos and see millions, if not billions of years ago and yet, again, we can't determine if Iraq had WMDs? Not only was Iraq supposed to have WMDs but it was also supposed to be an imminent threat. Neither panned out. Why? BECAUSE IT DIDN'T EXIST!!!! When did Saddam threaten to take over the world and become the new Super Power? When did he declare war on the U.S.? And lastly, when did he have the technology to launch a missle that would come even remotely close to the United States? And lets be realistic for a moment. Even if he had declared war on the U.S., what chance would he have against us?

The Bush Administration fed you lies and you bought it. Admit it. Millions of Americans bought into it so you're not alone.

Its time we stop accepting whatever these politicians say as the undeniable truth. Republican and Democrats alike.

Oh and Aristotle didn't have the wonders of modern technology and resources. Spy drones, CIA, FBI, NSA, etc. The guy didn't even have the means to travel the world.

Its good to hear that you can, at least, see one thing wrong with your party. Thats one thing that I can agree with.

Now, last but not least, the issue of corporations. If you can't see that America is being sold out or abused then, again, you have your blinders on. The corporations that come to mind are: ENRON, Adelphia, Wal-Mart, Halliburton, etc. Again, you're welcome to research it yourself. There's plenty out there.

 

[Bodacious]

Yeah, and I percieve you to be an asshole. Im sure you're a good person for the most part and you want whats best for your country, but damn. Do you have to be so freakin ignorant about it?

I am ignorant how? By not beleiving bush lied? Ok. Same can be said for you though.

Secondly, my perceptions were off. I can admit that and I have in the past. But by and large, we remain in the same mess that I and countless other Americans had predicted. Change my expectations? No. I can hope for the best but expect the worst. I keep an open mind about it.

So, even with this open mind of yours, you have been surprised twice. Ok.....

One election doesn't change the fact that we went to war because of lies and deceit. Does one good thing(the election) just outweigh the entire war and why we're there? In my eyes, no. Does this election bring back 1462 dead American soldiers or how about the 10,000+ without legs, arms, hands, etc? Its just not worth it.

Tell the pople that voted that day their vote wasn't worth it because you think our soldiers dying is wrong. I would love to see what their response would be.

About Sistani and you wanting a source. It was on the net and in newspapers. The Los Angeles Times carried the story and Im sure other countless news agencies covered it as well. Here's a link to a couple that I found: http://www.khaleejtimes.com/Display...ocusoniraq_February54.xml&section=focusoniraq

And another one: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6967119/

All we can do is wait and see. Don't be surprised if your expectations are foilded once agian.

You're always welcome to look yourself. Let me guess. If Rush Limbaugh didn't say it, then it must not be important or true, right? Here's an interesting fact. My family was, at one time, related to Rush Limbaugh. Kind of ironic huh? I'll try to see if i can find the pic of him with some people from my family.

I read many publications, yes, including limbaugh, but lost of others as well. I frequent Micheal Moore's sight as well, quite an interensting place that one is.

I don't believe they lied. Believing Bush lied about WMD is the same as believing Aristotle lied when he siad the world was flat.

You're comparing Bush to Aristotle?

No, I am not comparing Bush to Aristotle. I am compariring what was perceived to be fact at the time based on poor or lack of intelligence that the larger community believe to be true.

Please. No, its not the same.

Bush's Administration and America has eyes all around the world. You're telling me that the most powerful nation on the Earth wasn't able to determine whether or not Saddam had biological or any other kind of weapons?

Close. I am saying that the intelligence agencies of not only the US, but The UK's, Russias, and a few others intelligence were fouled.

The Bush Administration fed you lies and you bought it. Admit it. Millions of Americans bought into it so you're not alone.

If you are going to make accusations, be sure and blame eveyone who is worthy of it, including the Clinton's, Kerry, and a whole slew of other democrats deserving of blame.

Its time we stop accepting whatever these politicians say as the undeniable truth. Republican and Democrats alike.

No denying that.

Now, last but not least, the issue of corporations. If you can't see that America is being sold out or abused then, again, you have your blinders on. The corporations that come to mind are: ENRON, Adelphia, Wal-Mart, Halliburton, etc. Again, you're welcome to research it yourself. There's plenty out there.

Burden of proof is on the accuser.

 

[satch919]

I am ignorant how? By not beleiving bush lied? Ok. Same can be said for you though.

The facts are there for you to make use of. However, if you decide to ignore them, you're ignorant. And yes, the same could be said for me as well.

So, even with this open mind of yours, you have been surprised twice. Ok.....

Is it possible for one to have an open mind and be surprised? Yes. Does surprise have a requisite that includes not having an open mind? If so, let me see.


Tell the pople that voted that day their vote wasn't worth it because you think our soldiers dying is wrong. I would love to see what their response would be.

My countrymen's well-being come first. If the Iraqis wanted to vote freely, they should have been the one to initiate it. Im sure if the rolls had been reversed, the Iraqis would agree that there countrymen are more important as well. Don't try to turn me into a heartless bastard.


All we can do is wait and see. Don't be surprised if your expectations are foilded once agian.

Thanks for the advice kind sir.


No, I am not comparing Bush to Aristotle. I am compariring what was perceived to be fact at the time based on poor or lack of intelligence that the larger community believe to be true.

But the inspectors had already concluded that there wasn't anything there. They were never able to produce mass amounts of weaponry. So, you're telling me that the Administration was willing to bypass more inspections or analysis and just send people to war? In other words, the Administration failed at solving this problem through diplomacy. Or maybe they didn't even want to try in the first place because Iraq is a resource rich nation.

Close. I am saying that the intelligence agencies of not only the US, but The UK's, Russias, and a few others intelligence were fouled.

Yeah, true. Do you think Bush would have listened to either country if they had said that there wasn't a threat? He had already made up his mind about going to war.

If you are going to make accusations, be sure and blame eveyone who is worthy of it, including the Clinton's, Kerry, and a whole slew of other democrats deserving of blame.

But this isn't about Kerry or Clinton. This is about Bush and his handling of Iraq. I know where Kerry fits in but Clinton? Sources?


Burden of proof is on the accuser.

Yeah, and most have been convicted or left their job because of the controversy. Are you denying that they haven't been doing anything wrong? Wal-Mart settled. http://www.forbes.com/associatedpress/feeds/ap/2005/02/13/ap1822719.html

Many have been convicted at ENRON. Halliburton is being investigated. Adelphia's founder was found guilty. The list goes on.

 

[seinfeldrules]

just as the cia funded the Ba'athist coup (1963) that eventually put saddam in power, so to will they have a hand in shaping iraq for generations to come ..except now they dont have to be secretive ..they'll have one of their paid stooges do it for them

Sorry stern, your idea of an Iraqi election conspiracy went out the window when Allawi got 14% of the vote. I cant believe you are still going on about this. The Iraqi people chose who they wanted as leader. If they want a man with prior ties to the US, then that is their choice. By no means does that mean they will be a puppet either. George Washington worked for the Brits at one point in his career, does that mean he was secretly being controlled by the Brits when he was President?

I actually heard someone on tv the other day say that they hope the whole Iraq situation fails spectacularly simply so they can see the US be wrong. What a sad, sad, attitude. I hope it doesn't spread much.

Its a little too late for that I think. Some quotes from this thread should be evidence enough of that.

 

[GhostFox]

I cant believe you are still going on about this.

I can.

Just kidding Sterny.

Its a little too late for that I think. Some quotes from this thread should be evidence enough of that.

Unfortunately I agree. I was absolutely floored when I heard someone come right out and say it, and I guess I shouldn't have been. People don't even seem to be ashamed of feeling that way.