Iraq! For those who said we shouldn't have gone to war

[thehunter1320]

they didn't bother us here, why the hell go over there and bother them?

"oh, 9/11!! they attacked us!" no, terrorists attacked us, not iraq

i'm moving to canada if bush gets re-elected... i'm dead serious... i'm gonna be nw909's next door neighbor

 

[blahblahblah]

The pre-war Iraq was not a problem. It posed no threat to us and, even though it's ruler was a dictator, it was stable. All we have done by invading is to create a brand new breeding ground for terrorists. We haven't found any of these terrible WMD's Saddam was said to have had by the US and British governments, and the country has been thrown into a violent turmoil. Our "liberation" hasn't done a whole lot of good; it has gotten a lot of people killed though.

It was only stable because the United States of America had several aircraft carriers stationed in the Persian Gulf at any one time. How long did you expect to have a nice chunk of the US military on the other side of the world trying to keep peace? I guarrentee that if the US left/reduced its presence in the Middle East, Saddam would have tried something. Look at his track record, he is not the type of dictator who likes to keep his country peaceful and isolated.

Iraq in its current state is a problem. Iraqi citizens who lost family members and loved ones in US bombings/raids/etc., no matter how accidental those casualties may have been, are going to harbor a newfound hatred, or at the very least resentment, toward the US. Those violent uprisings led by groups of terrorists/freedom fighters (take your pick) are going to find new recruits in people like that (and there are many).

True

The lack of WMD's really hurts the worldwide credibility of the United States. It was the reason we went to war. We didn't go for humanitarian efforts, we went because Saddam posed a serious threat to the United States according to US intelligence. It's a year later now and no weapons have been found. No weapons of mass destruction have been found in Iraq at all. Nuclear, chemical and biological weapons should have littered the place according to what the US administration was saying. This obvious failure does nothing whatsoever to ease the anti-American sentiment that many people across the world seem to feel.

Not to defend faulty intelligence, but Iraq did have SCUD missiles which it wasn't supposed to have. Even if you did not believe Iraq had WMD before the war, it wasn't by any means a stretch of imagination to believe that Iraq could have easily obtain and used WMD.

Charging into Iraq was foolhardy. When Middle Eastern terrorists have a vendetta against your country you do not go and wage a crusade against a Middle Eastern country with nothing built questionable motives, bad intelligence, and anger as your guide. We have wasted an absolutely ridiculous amount of money fighting the war in Iraq, and more importantly, we have wasted the lives of 972 men and women. What was it all for?

What were we supposed to do with Iraq, keep 3 aircraft carriers present at all times? I lived in Hickam/Pearl Harbor, Hawaii from 1999-2001 and knew many family's who were kept apart for extended periods of time because their tours aboard aircraft carriers were extended beyond 6 months so they could properly keep an eye over the Middle East. At some point, you simply have to draw a line. I don't know if it was the best time to take out Saddam Hussein, but it had to be done.

Also, please don't say hindsight is 20/20 or anything of that nature. Much of what we are seeing today in Iraq was in fact predicted before the war began. If normal people could predict it and the US government could not, what does that say?

Everybody knew another war with Iraq was inevitable (regardless if Bush was president or nto). It was simply a matter of time. I'm not saying it was the best time to solve the Iraq problem, but Iraq had to be dealt with. I just hope Iraq can stabilize and recover from all of this.

 

[Asus]

The Clinton administration had found evidence linking Saddam's regime to Osama and al Qaeda before Bush was Pres. Dig in the reports.
Of course there have been reports that say WMD were sold and shipped to Syria as well.

I believe the US has done the right thing. It has been messy but I don't like hearing the media saying "4 soldiers died today! Oh no!". They can make it out to be propaganda against the war. The News and paper seem to always be liberal.
But another thing is the Iraqi people are free.

I know a family a few blocks away who used to live in Bagdad. The rest of their family still lived in there. They are glad the US did what they did. Their family did live in fear and hardly left their homes when Saddam was in power. They didn't call home becaues the phones would be monitored. They didn't show any feelings of resistance against Saddam because they never knew if neighbors may tell or what they would do. Never knew who was a Saddam supporter. Everything is better for them now and they even have internet. That's what I've heard so far anyway.

 

[Yakuza]

From what I know, though, I think that Iraq shouldn't have been a war. Perhaps after more intellegence was captured or whatever... but I truly don't think any war should have been a war. People are experts at this, why can't we solve things with peace? After all, this war is only going to make the general opinion of the U.S. in the Middle East even worse.

.

Becuase the only way to make peace with a rabid animal is to put it down.

 

[Cybernoid]

Now, I will close this thread if it goes flamey.. so keep it clean.

What I am asking, is what do you personally think is/was the right way to solve the Iraq problem.

What problem? There was no problem in Iraq. Just another poor country ruled by an iron-fisted madman. Plenty of those around.

Oh! You mean OIL? Well...

 

[AJ Rimmer]

I have so much to say about Iraq but I usually believe that once a thread like this has reached two pages all that can be said about it from both sides has already been said.

But: The US should stop playing world cop but if they continue, they cannot start complaining when countries dislike them.
Also, I do not like Bush.
That's it for me.

 

[Gunner]

Oil? who said sumthin' bout oil bitch! you cookin'?

 

[CptStern]

Para no comments or discussions just answer the question

 

[Tr0n]

Hell...I'll make a comment.Screw you...is that good?

Back on topic....Do I believe we should have gone to war.No...but sometimes when all other methods are exhasuted then war is the only way.Anyways i'm just a 16 year old trying to get his life straight again...so I don't know politics.

 

[Gunner]

Para no comments or discussions just answer the question

Click here! I guarantee you a good laugh (Black Bush).

 

[AJ Rimmer]

Hell...I'll make a comment.Screw you...is that good?

Back on topic....Do I believe we should have gone to war.No...but sometimes when all other methods are exhasuted then war is the only way.Anyways i'm just a 16 year old trying to get his life straight again...so I don't know politics.

But Bush was never interested in exhausting all other options.

 

[Baal]

they didn't bother us here, why the hell go over there and bother them?

"oh, 9/11!! they attacked us!" no, terrorists attacked us, not iraq

i'm moving to canada if bush gets re-elected... i'm dead serious... i'm gonna be nw909's next door neighbor

Welcome Brother!

Have a nice stay.

Those rednecks are going to vote him back in. (and I don't mean all Americans are rednecks, I mean the REAL rednecks, the ones who like Bush)

 

[pat_thetic]

So I'm a redneck?

 

[blahblahblah]

Those rednecks are going to vote him back in. (and I don't mean all Americans are rednecks, I mean the REAL rednecks, the ones who like Bush)

Wait, that means you must be a liberal hipppie...no wait...your Canadian. :|

Please don't try and insult others political beliefs, it just makes you look stupid. I wrote that statement above as pure shock value to make sure you would read my post (I really don't mean it).

I suggest next time you should think before you write.

 

[Pogrom]

The Clinton administration had found evidence linking Saddam's regime to Osama and al Qaeda before Bush was Pres. Dig in the reports.
Of course there have been reports that say WMD were sold and shipped to Syria as well.

You do realise that all of those links have been explored in the 9/11 Commission's investigation?

What was their conclusion?

Al Qaeda requests meeting with Iraqi officials. Saddam obliges by sending a high ranking official. They meet; Al Qaeda requests land for training centres, funding and weapons. Iraq refuses.

End of Story.

All of this can be found in the report. Here's a link to a story that explains it: no real link

 

[oldagerocker]

But Bush was never interested in exhausting all other options.

how do you know? diplomacy goes on behind closed doors.
The UN Did go in to remove Iraq of its thousands of weapons it wasn't allowed to have, some were destroyed... others, confirmed by so-called 'intelligence' reports were being hidden from the UN, at every turn the UN inspecters were disrupted from doing their job by the Iraqi establishment and military.

My own personal opinion - i was for the war, as i am for war against any dictatorship regieme that abuses its people... such as Zimbabwe, North Korea, Burma etc.
Everybody saw how the Iraqi's celebrated their freedom, it's obvious the vast majority of Iraqi's are happy without Saddam.
The problem is now with Al'Quida sending in terrorists into cause trouble, killing Iraqi civilians, Soldiers and anyone they can, their sick brutality much highlighted by the recent beheadings.
Now power has been taken over by the iraqi's, someone appointed by the Americans atm anyway... Iraq will always be under US influence.
I honestly feel sorry for the soldiers stationed out there,they could be there for years, away from their loved ones... amid constant terrorist threat, good luck to em!

 

[Pogrom]

how do you know? diplomacy goes on behind closed doors.

My own personal opinion - i was for the war, as i am for war against any dictatorship regieme that abuses its people... such as Zimbabwe, North Korea, Burma etc.
Everybody saw how the Iraqi's celebrated their freedom, it's obvious the vast majority of Iraqi's are happy without Saddam.
The problem is now with Al'Quida sending in terrorists into cause trouble, killing Iraqi civilians, Soldiers and anyone they can, their sick brutality much highlighted by the recent beheadings.
Now power has been taken over by the iraqi's, someone appointed by the Americans atm anyway... Iraq will always be under US influence.
I honestly feel sorry for the soldiers stationed out there,they could be there for years, away from their loved ones... amid constant terrorist threat, good luck to em!

How exactly did they celebrate? I thought that there was only a small percentage of the population happy at the 'liberation'.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3024.htm

www.konformist.com/botm/volume07/botm0503.htm

www.buzzflash.com/archives/03/04/11_0750a.html

And that was with only 10 seconds using Google.

 

[oldagerocker]

Are you saying Pogrom that you'd rather live under Saddam Hussien, with his torture chambers and attacks on his own people with chemical and biological weapons? (it was on panorama, it must be true!)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2930739.stm

Im quite sure Iraqi's prefer Saddam Out than in.
btw, i gave up after your first link, wondering what you did type into google...what do you expect from an interview with a liberalist peace activist?... its biased.

 

[Pogrom]

Are you saying Pogrom that you'd rather live under Saddam Hussien, with his torture chambers and attacks on his own people with chemical and biological weapons? (it was on panorama, it must be true!)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2930739.stm

Im quite sure Iraqi's prefer Saddam Out than in.
btw, i gave up after your first link, wondering what you did type into google...what do you expect from an interview with a liberalist peace activist?... its biased.

I'm saying that my personal feelings are irrelevant in this matter.

The fact remains that the people shown celebrating on TV when the statue of Saddam was torn down were very few in number. Most TV reports focused on closeups to make the crowds seem bigger. If you want a different news source, then...

http://www.rediff.com/us/2003/apr/09iraq11.htm

 

[oldagerocker]

i see your point, and i remember that scene when it came out, very dodge work by the U.S!...
dont trust them people... there's nobody you can trust anymore.... :rolling:

 

[Sprafa]

They should have incentivated insurgency and staged a coup d'etat. Would be enough.

 

[Pogrom]

They should have incentivated insurgency and staged a coup d'etat. Would be enough.

Didn't they do that before? Started supporting enemies of Saddam, then when push came to shove they abandoned them.

The insurgents were then slaughtered by Saddam. In the early 90s.

 

[Sprafa]

Didn't they do that before? Started supporting enemies of Saddam, then when push came to shove they abandoned them.

The insurgents were then slaughtered by Saddam. In the early 90s.

Do it again.

Arabs are suckers for Western support. do I really need the [sarcams] tags ?

 

[Pogrom]

Do it again.

Arabs are suckers for Western support. do I really need the [sarcams] tags ?

hehehe.

I guess that's why the Afghan government is asking for Western security forces to secure the country before they hold free elections.

How long has it been since they started their democracy and they still haven't had an election?

 

[Lil' Timmy]

Didn't they do that before? Started supporting enemies of Saddam, then when push came to shove they abandoned them.

The insurgents were then slaughtered by Saddam. In the early 90s.

not exactly,right before the first gulf war, bush 1 old the 'people of iraq' to rise up against their opressor. i'm not sure if it was made clear or not, but the understanding was (on the part of the shias at least) that the uprising would have the support of the US. once the war ended, we pulled out and the shias (and kurds) were actually winning b/c saddam's military was depleted and the US was not allowing saddam to react to the revolutionaries attacks. however, we quickly withdrew and saddam was then able to mobilize his remaining forces and crush the shia rebellion (though the kurdish one was much less affected, iirc).

perhaps we didn't want a theocracy in iraq.. problem is, any coup would almost certainly involve instituting a theocracy.