Iraq from a Soldiers prespective

[CptStern]

it aint pretty, but it's mostly ignored by mainstream media:

In House to House: An Epic Memoir of War, Staff Sergeant David Bellavia?a gung-ho supporter of the Iraq war?casually recounts how in 2004, while his platoon was on just its second patrol in Iraq,
a civilian candy truck tried to merge with a column of our armored vehicles, only to get run over and squashed. The occupants were smashed beyond recognition. Our first sight of death was a man and his wife both ripped open and dismembered, their intestines strewn across shattered boxes of candy bars. The entire platoon hadn't eaten for twenty-four hours. We stopped, and as we stood guard around the wreckage, we grew increasingly hungry. Finally, I stole a few nibbles from one of the cleaner candy bars. Others wiped away the gore and fuel from the wrappers and joined me.

This incident is notable mainly for the fact that the platoon stopped; from the many accounts I have read of the Iraq war, when a US convoy runs over a car, it usually just keeps going

In Love My Rifle More Than You: Young and Female in the US Army, Kayla Williams, an Arabic-speaking military intelligence officer, tells of attending an interrogation session in Mosul in the fall of 2003 in which US soldiers remove the clothes of a prisoner in a cage and then mock him: "Mock his manhood. Mock his sexual prowess. Ridicule the size of his genitals." The soldiers flicked lit cigarette butts at the prisoner and smacked him across the face. Williams later learned that a prisoner died in the same cage she had visited.

here's why these soldiers accounts are largely ignored by western media:

As probing and aggressive as the reporting from Iraq has been, it is subject to many filters. There are, for example, "family viewing" standards that make it difficult for journalists to write frankly about such sensitive aspects of military life as the profane language soldiers often use. It's also hard for journalists to get an accurate sense of what soldiers really think. Through embedding, reporters have enjoyed remarkable physical access to the troops, but learning about their true feelings is far more difficult, all the more so since soldiers who speak out too freely can be prosecuted under the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

Finally, there are limitations imposed by the political climate in which the press works. Images that seem too graphic or unsettling can cause an uproar. When, for instance, The New York Times in January 2007 ran a photo of a US soldier lying mortally wounded on the ground, the paper was angrily accused of showing disrespect for the troops. More generally, the conduct of US soldiers in the field remains a highly sensitive subject. News organizations that show soldiers in a bad light run the risk of being labeled anti-American, unpatriotic, or?worst of all?"against the troops." In July, for instance, when The New Republic ran a column by a private that recounted several instances of bad behavior by US soldiers, he and the magazine were viciously attacked by conservative bloggers. Most Americans simply do not want to know too much about the acts being carried out in their name, and this serves as a powerful deterrent to editors and producers.

The beauty of aircraft, coupled with their high-tech destructive power, captures the imagination. From a news standpoint, jets flying through the sky make for much more dramatic footage than images of cannons parked in the mud, intermittently belching puffs of smoke.
But the fact is, the Marines rely much more on artillery bombardment than on aircraft dropping precision-guided munitions. During our thirty-six hours outside Nasiriyah they have already lobbed an estimated 2,000 rounds into the city. The impact of this shelling on its 400,000 residents must be devastating.

Entering the city with the Marines, Wright gets to see just how devastating the impact has been. Smoke curls from collapsed structures, and houses facing the road are pockmarked and cratered. The corpses of Iraqi attackers are scattered on the road leading out of the city. Run over repeatedly by tracked vehicles, "they are flattened, with their entrails squished out," Wright notes, adding:
We pass a bus, smashed and burned, with charred human remains sitting upright in some windows. There's a man in the road with no head and a dead little girl, too, about three or four, lying on her back. She's wearing a dress and has no legs.

With the battlefield growing ever more dangerous, the Marines' initial inhibitions about firing fades, and even relatively minor threats are met with fierce bursts of gunfire. Civilians bear the brunt, to the consternation of many of the Marines. "I think it's bullshit how these ****ing civilians are dying!" rages Jeffrey Carazales, a lance corporal from Texas, after he shoots at a building that clearly has civilians in it:
They're worse off than the guys that are shooting at us. They don't even have a chance. Do you think people at home are going to see this?all these women and children we're killing? **** no. Back home they're glorifying this mother****er, I guarantee you. Saying our president is a ****ing hero for getting us into this bitch. He ain't even a real Texan.

it goes on and on ..it's an interesting read, all americans should see this side of the war, one not filtered by the media or politics


http://www.nybooks.com/articles/20906

 

[Darkside55]

At least the candy didn't go to waste.

 

[CptStern]

you read the entire article in 4 minutes? ...and didnt you recently give me shit for trolling?

 

[Darkside55]

Did I? I don't think I did.

But yeah I read the whole thing. I'm a fast reader. I wasn't trying to troll, there's just not much to say to that. I think everyone knows the horrors of war...I'd like to believe people aren't harboring any delusions about what's going on over there with the civilians, or with war prisoners.

You can imagine though, who really wants to read news about a little girl with her head blown off, or about a married couple torn to shreds by an armored convoy? Who wants to read about charred remains?

Even if they had exposure to this side of the war I think most Americans would just turn away from it. It's not that people don't care, it's just that news is depressing enough as it is without piling more on. People'd rather turn their heads to something objectionable than listen to it.

But at least the candy didn't go to waste.

 

[CptStern]

Did I? I don't think I did.

But yeah I read the whole thing. I'm a fast reader. I wasn't trying to troll, there's just not much to say to that. I think everyone knows the horrors of war...

I dont think they do, or else they wouldnt be there in the first place ..in fact the article is quite clear that the soldiers didnt know what they got themselves into

I'd like to believe people aren't harboring any delusions about what's going on over there with the civilians, or with war prisoners.

You can imagine though, who really wants to read news about a little girl with her head blown off, or about a married couple torn to shreds by an armored convoy? Who wants to read about charred remains?

personally i'd find the stories of soldiers doing good deeds just as disturbing ..if that was in fact all they reported ...which is the case most of the time

Even if they had exposure to this side of the war I think most Americans would just turn away from it. It's not that people don't care, it's just that news is depressing enough as it is without piling more on. People'd rather turn their heads to something objectionable than listen to it.

the article mentions this several times but that doesnt sit right with me ..I mean why would you willingly send your sons and daughters to a foreign land yet ignore the most what's going on?

But at least the candy didn't go to waste.

at least not the candy that wasnt covered in entrails and fuel

 

[nurizeko]

Newsflash:

America soldiers are immoral assholes who's shitty commanders and political superiors have yet again forced them into situations where they are obviously not prepared for and not trained for and shouldn't be in, in the first place, and not welcome.

The world gasps in genuine shock and surprise at such a revelation.



I get your point though, this stuff doesn't get shown in America, but thats willful ignorance, what you don't know cant hurt you and anyway its all in the interests of America(****yeah).

Perhaps if Americans were forced to see this stuff, they would eventually, perhaps, heres hoping, come to understand why so much of the world hates them.

Win hearts and minds?...hehehe....stop killing them for a start would probably help.

 

[CptStern]

I found the link at shacknews ...here is what one of the readers posted:

I have a friend who is a Marine and did a couple tours in Iraq, he came back all ****ed up and is on a string of anti depressants that he must take.

He has told me many stories, the main things that got to him was this.

He spent time in Fallujia, he was explaining to me that a certain point came in that town where the order was to 'clean' the city of insurgents. Planes dropped leaflets explaining that there is a order to evacuate the city to avoid casualties. He told me that their orders were to clear the entire city room by room. Everyone knows there was heavy fighting during this time, and there was plenty of resistance. The problem was that when a insurgent would hole up in a building, they would just light it up. He would have to go though the aftermath and see how much collateral damage they caused, families ripped apart huddling together in a corner of a room. He said he snapped when he was trying to pull a little girl out of the rubble and it turned out it was just the upper torso, she was alive. After that they gave him oxycotins to help numb him.

Another issue he explained was rules of engagement during the raids. They would raid some farmhouse in the middle of the night while the owner would come running out with a AK thinking it is bandits trying to steal his livestock - this is actually very common, there is no police and bandits are rampant, so people must take care of themselves. The marines see someone with a AK, shoot first and ask questions later. Then they would have to deal with the mourning of the family since they just killed the oldest brother or father. This happened a tad too often he said.

 

[<RJMC>]

sounds like a hell of a party

interesting considering that we are entering into the 21 century but this looks more uncivilized that some stuff before

 

[2real]

yeah we all know war isn't pretty.

 

[Darkside55]

I dont think they do, or else they wouldnt be there in the first place ..in fact the article is quite clear that the soldiers didnt know what they got themselves into

Should've taken a history lesson from previous wars. You know, sometimes all they see are recruitment ads about doing "something incredible" and "crossing over into the blue" and becoming "army strong," which of course glorify military service and don't even try and tell you what's really going on.

Personally I find it really hard to NOT have taken lessons from previous wars. You would have expected them to at least have seen some movies on the subject. Vietnam had, what, a jillion movies dedicated to the attrocities of war?

personally i'd find the stories of soldiers doing good deeds just as disturbing ..if that was in fact all they reported ...which is the case most of the time

I'm equally apathetic about all news coming out of the war. It's mainly because there's nothing I can do about it, so I feel no connection to it. Were I to read a story of soldiers helping civilians, that doesn't fill me with any warmth or pride for my country any more than I would feel enraged or saddened if I read a story about terrible acts or accidents occurring.

Most people on the whole though, they'd rather hear good news than bad.

the article mentions this several times but that doesnt sit right with me ..I mean why would you willingly send your sons and daughters to a foreign land yet ignore the most what's going on?

I think military families are different. I'm not sure; maybe they want to know everything that's happening. But the general populace would rather not hear it.

America soldiers are immoral assholes

Thank you for today's gross generalization. Vanna White is waiting with your prize.

 

[<RJMC>]

yeah thats one thing, what can people like us do? I dont think people like us can go to bush to told him to stop doing bad things

 

[CptStern]

Should've taken a history lesson from previous wars. You know, sometimes all they see are recruitment ads about doing "something incredible" and "crossing over into the blue" and becoming "army strong," which of course glorify military service and don't even try and tell you what's really going on.

ya, over 80% of soldiers stationed in bagdhad believe Saddam was behind 9/11 ..so payback could have been a big factor in enlisting

Personally I find it really hard to NOT have taken lessons from previous wars. You would have expected them to at least have seen some movies on the subject. Vietnam had, what, a jillion movies dedicated to the attrocities of war?

agreed however besides vietnam most see war as glorious, justifiable even

I'm equally apathetic about all news coming out of the war. It's mainly because there's nothing I can do about it, so I feel no connection to it. Were I to read a story of soldiers helping civilians, that doesn't fill me with any warmth or pride for my country any more than I would feel enraged or saddened if I read a story about terrible acts or accidents occurring.

Most people on the whole though, they'd rather hear good news than bad.

yes but apathy is what got you into this mess in the first place ..I mean if people actually gave a shit and challenged their governments lie machine, this wouldnt have happened ...I mean the global community for the most part knew this was wrong from the get go ..the only people who didnt see it as wrong were american ..to this day some still justify it as necessary, even though it was manufactured from the get go

I think military families are different. I'm not sure; maybe they want to know everything that's happening. But the general populace would rather not hear it.

i was talking more figuratively ..sons and daughters meaning americans in general

 

[Gunner]

Think I'm gonna go buy that book, Generation kill, only 15$ @ borders.

 

[Qonfused]

Stern just ruined is own thread, lol.

 

[Lt. Drebin]

..I mean if people actually gave a shit and challenged their governments lie machine, this wouldnt have happened ...

Rather presumptuous. If people didn't give a shit, do you really think (insert insane percent here) would have gone balls out in supporting this psychopath for 2 years up to 2003? I don't think it's ever a matter of people not giving a shit, it's more a matter of people not knowing any better. If people didn't give a shit, I'd imagine nothing would have happened either way. As is commented here regularly, there's not a lot of smart people in this country...unfortunatly it those that have the most Electoral College votes...see last 2 elections.

With the resources available...there's no excuse for ignorance anymore.

 

[Vigilante]

Newsflash:

America soldiers are immoral assholes who's shitty commanders and political superiors have yet again forced them into situations where they are obviously not prepared for and not trained for and shouldn't be in, in the first place, and not welcome.

The world gasps in genuine shock and surprise at such a revelation.

I get your point though, this stuff doesn't get shown in America, but thats willful ignorance, what you don't know cant hurt you and anyway its all in the interests of America(****yeah).

Perhaps if Americans were forced to see this stuff, they would eventually, perhaps, heres hoping, come to understand why so much of the world hates them.

Win hearts and minds?...hehehe....stop killing them for a start would probably help.
Reply With Quote

I'm am not in any way condoning their actions, but I think soldies of any country would do this, not just America's. I've known about this side of the war since it started....it's still not as bad as strapping dynamite to yourselves and blowing up a bus full of innocent people.

And you DO know that this war is immensly unpopular here, right? Just about everybody (save a few republicans) want to bring the troops home. Most of us know why the world hates us, even though they have never even set foot in this country. You can just shove it or you can continue to make assertments not based in fact at all and believes all of stern's "91% OF AMERICANS ARE STUPID NEW POLL SAYS" posts.

Overanalyzation by people incoming...

 

[CptStern]

Rather presumptuous. If people didn't give a shit, do you really think (insert insane percent here) would have gone balls out in supporting this psychopath for 2 years up to 2003? I don't think it's ever a matter of people not giving a shit, it's more a matter of people not knowing any better. If people didn't give a shit, I'd imagine nothing would have happened either way. As is commented here regularly, there's not a lot of smart people in this country...unfortunatly it those that have the most Electoral College votes...see last 2 elections.

With the resources available...there's no excuse for ignorance anymore.

you're far more unforgiving of americans in general than I am ..at least apathy is a convenient excuse, stupidity as an excuse just paints them with too broad of a brush

I stand by my statement: apathetic enough to revert to the tired "support america" instead of bothering to look at the evidence at hand ..people wanted to belive ..they wanted some measure of payback for 9/11 ..at least the appearance of it

 

[No Limit]

I'm am not in any way condoning their actions, but I think soldies of any country would do this, not just America's. I've known about this side of the war since it started....it's still not as bad as strapping dynamite to yourselves and blowing up a bus full of innocent people.

And you DO know that this war is immensly unpopular here, right? Just about everybody (save a few republicans) want to bring the troops home. Most of us know why the world hates us, even though they have never even set foot in this country. You can just shove it or you can continue to make assertments not based in fact at all and believes all of stern's "91% OF AMERICANS ARE STUPID NEW POLL SAYS" posts.

Overanalyzation by people incoming...

You are right, most people here now oppose the war, 4 1/2 years late but I guess better late than never. But by the same token 52% favor bombing Iran. So yes, this country is still filled with ****ing idiots.

 

[Lt. Drebin]

you're far more unforgiving of americans in general than I am ..at least apathy is a convenient excuse, stupidity as an excuse just paints them with too broad of a brush

Well, I do live in this country. I see and I hear.

I stand by my statement: apathetic enough to revert to the tired "support america" instead of bothering to look at the evidence at hand ..people wanted to belive ..they wanted some measure of payback for 9/11 ..at least the appearance of it

And, you just definined stupidity. :| Further, that's not "not giving a shit".

STUPIDITY(def): constantly ignoring the facts, acting like the facts have no significance or being unable to draw a correct conclusion from a given set of facts.

Stupidity leads to the results you described above.

Let's make the distiction b/w stupidity and ignorance...which is simply a lack of credible information. Which is also prevalent, but correctable.

So, again, do they not give a shit, or are they stupid?

IMHO...a lot of people in this country are stupid. Is everyone, no...so the brush is not that broad. Were stupid decisions made in the past, yes...but again, that's not that broad a brush. But if you're STILL supporting what's happening now, you are stupid. But it certainly doesn't mean you don't give a shit.

 

[CptStern]

Well, I do live in this country. I see and I hear.

fair enough, however i didnt want to be as harsh as you are

And, you just definined stupidity. :| Further, that's not "not giving a shit".

STUPIDITY(def): constantly ignoring the facts, acting like the facts have no significance or being unable to draw a correct conclusion from a given set of facts.

I'd point out that it could be much broader to mean "unintelligent" ..i dont think americans are all unintelligent

Stupidity leads to the results you described above.

so does apathy

Let's make the distiction b/w stupidity and ignorance...which is simply a lack of credible information. Which is also prevalent, but correctable.

So, again, do they not give a shit, or are they stupid?

umm both? not giving a shit about people's fate half way across the world isnt stupidity

IMHO...a lot of people in this country are stupid. Is everyone, no...so the brush is not that broad.

but you/we implied it's most americans because at the time support for invasion was over 70%

Were stupid decisions made in the past, yes...but again, that's not that broad a brush.

depends ..if it's government, I dont think any mistakes were made ..mistakes arent deliberate

But if you're STILL supporting what's happening now, you are stupid. But it certainly doesn't mean you don't give a shit.

agreed however, the hold outs often care nothing for iraqis and see them as less than human ..the article I linked to has quite a few examples of that

 

[Sulkdodds]

It still surprises me, tales from over there. My question is: now that many Americans are against the war, is it because of the horrific damage being done to their own troops, or is it because of the horrific damage being done to everybody else by those troops? I mean, do more people oppose the war now because it's difficult or because it's completely immoral?

 

[Lt. Drebin]

fair enough, however i didnt want to be as harsh as you are

Don't be shy...

I'd point out that it could be much broader to mean "unintelligent" ..i dont think americans are all unintelligent

Never said that all of them are. But, if you're not equating unintelligence to ignorance, I fail to see the difference.

so does apathy

True, but I still don't believe that apathy is the source of this problem. If people weren't concerned and were apathetic, how can you explain the 70% that were in favor of invading Iraq? How, in their apathy, would they even muster a vote? That's NOT "not giving a shit"...that's stupidity.

umm both? not giving a shit about people's fate half way across the world isnt stupidity

It isn't?? Blindly following a govt that paints anyone in the Middle East as our enemy is pretty stupid.

but you/we implied it's most americans because at the time support for invasion was over 70%

Still not all of us...

depends ..if it's government, I dont think any mistakes were made ..mistakes arent deliberate

Well, you got me there...haha.

agreed however, the hold outs often care nothing for iraqis and see them as less than human ..the article I linked to has quite a few examples of that

Yeah...well, I think that attitude is a few steps worse than either "not giving a shit" or stupidity. That's straight anti-social IMO, and scary.

 

[Lt. Drebin]

It still surprises me, tales from over there. My question is: now that many Americans are against the war, is it because of the horrific damage being done to their own troops, or is it because of the horrific damage being done to everybody else by those troops? I mean, do more people oppose the war now because it's difficult or because it's completely immoral?

F) All of the above.

But, then again, how can you trust the opinion of a group of people that are downright stupid at times. I'm relatively certain that if the vast majority of news on the war was positive, there'd be an overwhelmingly positive public response to accompany it. What can you possibly believe??

 

[[Matt]]

I'd point out that it could be much broader to mean "unintelligent" ..i don't think Americans are all unintelligent

For the most part they're certainly not. They're just terribly misinformed thanks to the US media supporting biased opinions rather than bipartisan views that give all sides to a story.

 

[Beerdude26]

During their initial thrust into Iraq, the Marines encounter little resistance. Speeding along Iraq's highways, they are cheered on by excited Iraqi children. By the third day, the platoon has pushed to within twenty kilometers of the southern city of Nasiriyah. Along with 10,000 other Marines, they park on the road, waiting for orders. Even while idle, they leave their mark, in the form of garbage and?a subject rarely broached by the mainstream media?bodily waste. "Taking a shit is always a big production in a war zone," Wright observes.

In the civilian world, of course, utmost care is taken to perform bodily functions in private. Public defecation is an act of shame, or even insanity. In a war zone, it's the opposite. You don't want to wander off by yourself. You could get shot by enemy snipers, or by Marines when you're coming back into friendly lines. So everyone just squats in the open a few meters from the road, often perching on empty wooden grenade crates used as portable "shitters." Trash from thousands of discarded MRE packs litters the area. With everyone lounging around, eating, sleeping, sunning, pooping, it looks like some weird combat version of an outdoor rock festival.

In a cluster of mud-hut homes across from the platoon's position, old ladies in black robes stand outside, "staring at the pale, white ass of a Marine" who, naked from the waist down, is "taking a dump in their front yard." A Marine says to Wright, "Can you imagine if this was reversed, and some army came into suburbia and was crapping in everyone's front lawns? It's ****ing wild."

Haha this is goddamn gold

 

[Vigilante]

You are right, most people here now oppose the war, 4 1/2 years late but I guess better late than never. But by the same token 52% favor bombing Iran. So yes, this country is still filled with ****ing idiots.

By a telephone pole of 1,000 people? This represents how all of America feels? I believe Absinthe argued this in the other thread...

 

[No Limit]

By a telephone pole of 1,000 people? This represents how all of America feels? I believe Absinthe argued this in the other thread...

These are scientific polls and they have always been accurate, usually within 5%. Show me a persidential poll that has ever been more than 5% off.

 

[CptStern]

By a telephone pole of 1,000 people?

this is pure comedic gold

..were all 1000 of them riding the telephone pole? or was the telephone pole made of 1000 people? that's one hell of a telephone pole

 

[<RJMC>]

Haha this is goddamn gold

lol
taking a shit whit bullets passing trough yor head and bodies around is EXTREME!!!!1

 

[Spoonoop]

During their initial thrust into Iraq, the Marines encounter little resistance. Speeding along Iraq's highways, they are cheered on by excited Iraqi children. By the third day, the platoon has pushed to within twenty kilometers of the southern city of Nasiriyah. Along with 10,000 other Marines, they park on the road, waiting for orders. Even while idle, they leave their mark, in the form of garbage and?a subject rarely broached by the mainstream media?bodily waste. "Taking a shit is always a big production in a war zone," Wright observes.

In the civilian world, of course, utmost care is taken to perform bodily functions in private. Public defecation is an act of shame, or even insanity. In a war zone, it's the opposite. You don't want to wander off by yourself. You could get shot by enemy snipers, or by Marines when you're coming back into friendly lines. So everyone just squats in the open a few meters from the road, often perching on empty wooden grenade crates used as portable "shitters." Trash from thousands of discarded MRE packs litters the area. With everyone lounging around, eating, sleeping, sunning, pooping, it looks like some weird combat version of an outdoor rock festival.

In a cluster of mud-hut homes across from the platoon's position, old ladies in black robes stand outside, "staring at the pale, white ass of a Marine" who, naked from the waist down, is "taking a dump in their front yard." A Marine says to Wright, "Can you imagine if this was reversed, and some army came into suburbia and was crapping in everyone's front lawns? It's ****ing wild."

Wow, thats the most intersting thing I've ever read about the war.

 

[PortalStormzzzz]

LOL, Jinter said "burdenofproof" for Soldiers hating their gov. 'Nuff said here.

Nice find stern

 

[Saturos]

For the most part they're certainly not. They're just terribly misinformed thanks to the US media supporting biased opinions rather than bipartisan views that give all sides to a story.

Now THAT's something I can agree with. The mass media in America for the most part, is full of shit.