Iraq: hell on earth

[CptStern]

BAGHDAD -- In a city with few real refuges from sectarian violence -- not government offices, not military bases, not even mosques -- one place always emerged as a safe haven: hospitals.

So Mounthir Abbas Saud, whose right arm and jaw were ripped off when a car bomb exploded six months ago, must have thought the worst was over when he arrived at Ibn al-Nafis Hospital, a major medical center here

Instead, it had just begun. A few days into his recovery at the facility, armed Shiite Muslim militiamen dragged the 43-year-old Sunni mason down the hallway floor, snapping intravenous needles and a breathing tube out of his body, and later riddled his body with bullets, family members said.

Authorities say it was not an isolated incident. In Baghdad these days, not even the hospitals are safe. In growing numbers, sick and wounded Sunnis have been abducted from public hospitals operated by Iraq's Shiite-run Health Ministry and later killed, according to patients, families of victims, doctors and government officials.

As a result, more and more Iraqis are avoiding hospitals, making it even harder to preserve life in a city where death is seemingly everywhere. Gunshot victims are now being treated by nurses in makeshift emergency rooms set up in homes. Women giving birth are smuggled out of Baghdad and into clinics in safer provinces

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/29/AR2006082901680.html

meanwhile:

It's [US embassy in baghdad] being built in the Middle East, but George W's palace, as the locals have dubbed the new US embassy, is designed as a suburb of Washington.

An army of more than 3500 diplomatic and support staff will have their own sports centre, beauty parlour and swimming pool. Each of the six residential blocks will contain more than 600 apartments.

After almost four years, the Americans still can't turn on the lights for the Iraqis, but that won't be a problem for the embassy staffers. The same with the toilets — they will always flush on command. All services for the biggest embassy in the world will operate independently from the rattletrap utilities of the Iraqi capital.

Scheduled for completion next June, this is the only US reconstruction project in Iraq that is on track. Costing more than $US600 million ($A787 million), the fortress is bigger than the Vatican. It dwarfs the edifices of Saddam's wildest dreams and irritates the hell out of ordinary Iraqis.

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2006/08/25/1156012740594.html

on the threat of creating a flame war: **** you america

 

[Ravioli]

Damn, why waste money on this when they can put it into other stuff? Sure they need an embassy, but not a the best palace in the world. You clearly see that bush is just power hungry when he names it after himself.

 

[CptStern]

hehe it was the iraqis who named it George W's palace ..bush isnt that stupid (one would think)

 

[Mr-Fusion]

more than 1800 mutilated corpses were trucked in from across the capital in July, a significant increase on the June toll of almost 1600

Sunni victims of Shiite violence usually have holes drilled in their heads and joints and are found near the Shiite slums of Sadr City. Shiite victims of Sunni violence are often shot in the head or decapitated and usually they are dragged from the tepid waters of the Tigris.

Up to 200 bodies are delivered to the morgue each day. Sometimes there is the dignity of a body bag, but often body parts are delivered in banana boxes discarded at city bazaars.

Hey, but at least they have glorious democracy! This scale of horror did not occur under Saddams reign. Not even close.

**** you America indeed.

At most critical points the Americans have misread the social, tribal, political and military landscape and they have wrong-footed themselves by denying evolving realities that were all too apparent.

Dumbass Americans at it again screwing up the world 1 small step at a time.

Now they want to attack Iran? Goddamn morons...it angers me at times.

 

[Tr0n]

You mean dumbass american goverment right? I advise you to word your sentences carefully.

 

[Mr-Fusion]

OR what? You'll invade my house? Don't tread on me? You have guns?

Typical American....

In a thread about the death of thousands, horror, terror... you pick out the one thing that insults America . Obviously in the context of the post it is referring to the people in power and the people who vote for it, which just happens to be more than half of the people of America. The majority? The majority are dumbasses?

Want to shake the worldwide stereotype? Well you probably don't because you couldn't give a crap what people of countries think. Which is the cause of the problem in the first place! Misunderstanding other countries/cultures and invading like moronic gung-ho idiots.

Ahh well. Go invade Iran now.

 

[kirovman]

Iran would probably give them a beating if they attempted any kind of serious war, especially seeing as they've got their arms tied with Afghanistan and Iraq.

Also not to mention the international outrage.

 

[CptStern]

they'll attack by proxy ..through israel ..why else would they buy these? ...surely not to fight terrorists

 

[Tr0n]

OR what? You'll invade my house? Don't tread on me? You have guns?

I wasn't threatening or anything. When you generalize you're arguement because moot in the first place.

Typical American....

In a thread about the death of thousands, horror, terror... you pick out the one thing that insults America . Obviously in the context of the post it is referring to the people in power and the people who vote for it, which just happens to be more than half of the people of America. The majority? The majority are dumbasses?

How can you label me a typical American when I'm in fact planning on moving to Canada in a few years? Oh shit, there goes your arguement again. Oh I picked it out because you're the only person in the politics forum that generalized and used a old stereotype. So in a sense you have no right to insult because you're no better then those "gung-ho idiots". Now if you would've said, the Bush Adminstration is a bunch of dumbasses or some Americans are dumbasses, then that would be different. Instead you label ALL americans.

Want to shake the worldwide stereotype? Well you probably don't because you couldn't give a crap what people of countries think. Which is the cause of the problem in the first place! Misunderstanding other countries/cultures and invading like moronic gung-ho idiots.

Ahh well. Go invade Iran now.

Again, how can you label me and other people that "we don't care about other cultures/countries" when you do not even know the person you're calling a "typical american". I for one do not care about invading Iran nor do many Americans. I also know and study about diffrent cultures/countries. One of my majors when going to Uni is history, but oh wait, I'm a typical merican. I don't have an education.

So in a sense, you're the dumbass for using a stereotype and generalizing.

 

[Ome_Vince]

Israel is sending a clear message to
Iran that it can strike back if attacked by nuclear weapons.

what are you saying stern , that Israel bought those nuclear subs so it could nuke Iran??

How about:
Israel cant survive even half a nuclear blast, Iran can survive multiple. This signals Iran that Israel would always be able to return fire.
The 6 million Jews living in a piece of land most likely half the size of Holland, are obviously covering their ass for worst case scenarios, and preparing for a future new Cold War...
Note: before i get assaulted with assumptions, i'm not saying Iran will nuke Israel.. jeez (and yes, even though they've called for Israel's anihilation several times they wouldnt be stupid enough to do so. If Iran obtains nukes, in the worst case its heading for a cold-war scenario)

Similar games were played between the US and Russia, or did we forget those?

 

[Korgoth]

Ah but you are forgetting one thing ome_vince

Israel and Iran are batshit insane.

 

[The Monkey]

Hell is underneat the earth, fool!

 

[CptStern]

what are you saying stern , that Israel bought those nuclear subs so it could nuke Iran??

How about:
Israel cant survive even half a nuclear blast, Iran can survive multiple. This signals Iran that Israel would always be able to return fire.
The 6 million Jews living in a piece of land most likely half the size of Holland, are obviously covering their ass for worst case scenarios, and preparing for a future new Cold War...
Note: before i get assaulted with assumptions, i'm not saying Iran will nuke Israel.. jeez (and yes, even though they've called for Israel's anihilation several times they wouldnt be stupid enough to do so. If Iran obtains nukes, in the worst case its heading for a cold-war scenario)

Similar games were played between the US and Russia, or did we forget those?

iran nuclear weapons: 0

israel nuclear weapons: 200+


nuclear capable submarines could support this kind of strike:

http://www.washtimes.com/world/20050428-105543-9139r.htm

as a deterent to retaliation

but I guess in your mind a pre-emptive strike is ok ..so long as it's not the US doing it

 

[Icarusintel]

On threat of not giving a shit: f*ck you Stern. :cheese:

Honestly, the embassy thing sounds dumba dn that money would be better used elsewhere. But it's a little hard to stop all the Iraqis from killing each other. This deep-rooted hatred isn;t going away anytime soon. And anyone who believes politics or merely having US troops leave Iraq is going to solve this is living in a fantasy world.

 

[CptStern]

On threat of not giving a shit: f*ck you Stern. :cheese:

why am I not surprised?

Honestly, the embassy thing sounds dumba dn that money would be better used elsewhere. But it's a little hard to stop all the Iraqis from killing each other. This deep-rooted hatred isn;t going away anytime soon.

yet somehow Saddam kept it in check for 30 years

And anyone who believes politics or merely having US troops leave Iraq is going to solve this is living in a fantasy world.

yes because that's the solution every single war objector has ..frankly imho you should stay and clean up your own mess ..but you're not cleaning up anything are you?:

After almost four years, the Americans still can't turn on the lights for the Iraqis, but that won't be a problem for the embassy staffers. The same with the toilets — they will always flush on command. All services for the biggest embassy in the world will operate independently from the rattletrap utilities of the Iraqi capital.

 

[Raxxman]

Well Saddam kept it quiet for 30 years.

But this war is being miss-managed about as well as 'Nam

Sigh.

 

[Solaris]

Aye f**k America! And the UK!

 

[Ome_Vince]

iran nuclear weapons: 0

israel nuclear weapons: 200+


nuclear capable submarines could support this kind of strike:

http://www.washtimes.com/world/20050428-105543-9139r.htm

as a deterent to retaliation

but I guess in your mind a pre-emptive strike is ok ..so long as it's not the US doing it

Funny, i'm not assuming a thing, you are with your constant "hints" at Israel's nuclear weapons program.
Also, you forgot to add this to your list:

-how many nukes can iran take: multiple

-how many nukes can Israel take: none

-threats of anihilation Iran vs Israel: multiple, by multiple rulers, in multiple occasions including Arab League meetings

-threats of anihilation Israel vs Iran: none

But i guess thats all ok, and most likely Israel would nuke right. :rolling:

Also, in some cases yes i dont have a problem with pre-emptive strikes.
It actually could have saved many lives in the past.

 

[CptStern]

Funny, i'm not assuming a thing, you are with your constant "hints" at Israel's nuclear weapons program.
Also, you forgot to add this to your list:

-how many nukes can iran take: multiple

speculation

-how many nukes can Israel take: none

slippery slope, appeal to emotion

-threats of anihilation Iran vs Israel: multiple, by multiple rulers, in multiple occasions including Arab League meetings

speculation ..actions are louder than words

-threats of anihilation Israel vs Iran: none

that would be speculative

But i guess thats all ok, and most likely Israel would nuke right. :rolling:

attempt to redicule to defer the real issues, and more appeals to emotion: You see everything as black and white dontcha? ..not everyone has such a cartoon outlook when debating this issue Ome_vince

Also, in some cases yes i dont have a problem with pre-emptive strikes.
It actually could have saved many lives in the past.

so you admit your hypocrisy ..perhaps israel should just nuke iran so to get rid of the threat

^- that's what you wanted to hear, right?

 

[Ridge]

Seriously....I dont know about you, but if I was an American in Baghdad, the last place I would be is the beauty parlor or swimming pool...instead of burning money on this heaven among hell, they should invest money into building things like power stations and water treatment plants...something that will actually get the locals on our side, as we really are bettering their lives at this point.

And dont blame Americans for this sh*t. Its the politicians. I would not have voted to keep Bush in office except that the other option was a waste of a vote. (Come on, Dems, admit it, Kerry was a terrible waste of a possible president)

 

[Ome_Vince]

speculation

Speculation? wtf, Please tell me your just playing around.
NUKE

Absolute maximum with all wind conditions etc etc, nuke damage max radius: 250 miles = 400 km

Iran : 636.372 km²

slippery slope, appeal to emotion

emotion? What emotion? That Israel cant take nukes? LOL
What emotion am i appealing too? Its reality :smoking:

speculation ..actions are louder than words

Another addition to your threat list. I'm not implying Iran will nuke (even mentioned in every post i dont think they will but lets just ignore that aye)

that would be speculative

No, i havent found any case in which Israel threatened to whipe out Iran. So its not speculative.

attempt to redicule to defer the real issues, and more appeals to emotion: You see everything as black and white dontcha? ..not everyone has such a cartoon outlook when debating this issue Ome_vince

lol? Funny i'm the one who usually argues the world is not black and white. :smoking: (which is the whole reason i engage extremists)
Another mindless approach to assault credibility, when you're the one making rediculous assumptions not me.

so you admit your hypocrisy ..perhaps israel should just nuke iran so to get rid of the threat

^- that's what you wanted to hear, right?

Jesus stern, calm down, your acting like a frustrated preteen.
What hypocracy are you aiming at? That i dont think pre-emptive strikes are always wrong per definition?
When have i said nobody but Israel is "allowed" to make pre-emptive strikes? When have i said Israel "should nuke" Iran? Or is justified to do so, even if Iran obtains nuclear weapons?
How did me replying to your assumption "Israel's buying of Nuclear Submarines is an indication they will nuke/attack Iran", turn around in you attacking me as if i said Iran would nuke Israel?
How does me saying i dont think Pre-emptive strikes are wrong per definition turn into me supporting the attacking of Iran in a possible nuclear pre-emptive strike because they are a "threat"?

What the hell is going on with you stern, Your jumping all over the place, stop putting words into my mouth.
You keep pushing me in your own black & white corners: "if you dont agree, your pro-attacking/nuking Iran".

 

[CptStern]

sigh ...you clearly have a problem understanding what I've written (seems to be an ongoing problem with you) ..I'm on my way home now so I'll answer your post later ..but I can say this ..you missed about 80% of what I said ..mostly because you take everything so literally. Lateral thinking my friend

 

[Ome_Vince]

hehe, o yes ofcourse -> on with the ungrounded mindless insults aye, seems to be an ongoing problem with you (and now you have me do it too, lol), along with your fanatical assumptions.

I'm sorry i must have missed the part where you said i would want to hear Iran should get nuked to remove the threat, just because i said i didnt think pre-emptive strikes were bad per definition.
Way to go Sterno

 

[delusional]

i thought mexico was hell on earth
anyway all i got to say is that religion isnt nice since a lot of this killing is based on the argument between sunnis and shi'ites.

 

[Black_Wolf]

OR what? You'll invade my house? Don't tread on me? You have guns?

Typical American....

In a thread about the death of thousands, horror, terror... you pick out the one thing that insults America . Obviously in the context of the post it is referring to the people in power and the people who vote for it, which just happens to be more than half of the people of America. The majority? The majority are dumbasses?

Want to shake the worldwide stereotype? Well you probably don't because you couldn't give a crap what people of countries think. Which is the cause of the problem in the first place! Misunderstanding other countries/cultures and invading like moronic gung-ho idiots.

Ahh well. Go invade Iran now.

idiot

 

[AgentXen]

Yes it is the ****ing American goverment. That self elected dictator you call bush is to blame.

i thought mexico was hell on earth
anyway all i got to say is that religion isnt nice since a lot of this killing is based on the argument between sunnis and shi'ites.

BTW Mexico is a Paradise, trust me i have been and lived there for 8 years. Planing on moving there permanently in about 3 years.

 

[satch919]

And the hatred towards America grows.

I can't say that I'm a proud American right now. It saddens me to see what's happening to my country and and to those abroad.

 

[Black_Wolf]

Yes it is the ****ing American goverment. That self elected dictator you call bush is to blame.



BTW Mexico is a Paradise, trust me i have been and lived there for 8 years. Planing on moving there permanently in about 3 years.

its nice for a vacation but it is not a Paradise.
and Im sure they dont want gringos down there btw.

 

[Adabiviak]

Non-violent Iraqi civillians who'd rather get on with their life in a civil manner, you have my deepest sympathies.

 

[Mr-Fusion]

I wasn't threatening or anything. When you generalize you're arguement because moot in the first place.

How can you label me a typical American when I'm in fact planning on moving to Canada in a few years? Oh shit, there goes your arguement again. Oh I picked it out because you're the only person in the politics forum that generalized and used a old stereotype. So in a sense you have no right to insult because you're no better then those "gung-ho idiots". Now if you would've said, the Bush Adminstration is a bunch of dumbasses or some Americans are dumbasses, then that would be different. Instead you label ALL americans.

Again, how can you label me and other people that "we don't care about other cultures/countries" when you do not even know the person you're calling a "typical american". I for one do not care about invading Iran nor do many Americans. I also know and study about diffrent cultures/countries. One of my majors when going to Uni is history, but oh wait, I'm a typical merican. I don't have an education.

So in a sense, you're the dumbass for using a stereotype and generalizing.

I'm glad you study history.

Doesn't change the fact that in a thread where you should probably be criticizing your own government with vigour, you pick out one little thing that sounded anti-American.

Prioritize your rage!

 

[CptStern]

Speculation? wtf, Please tell me your just playing around.
NUKE

you're not understanding what I'm saying:..and purposefully I might add:

you said:

Funny, i'm not assuming a thing, you are with your constant "hints" at Israel's nuclear weapons program.
Also, you forgot to add this to your list:

-how many nukes can iran take: multiple

I said:

speculation

because it is speculation ..you dont know how many nukes it would take to destroy iran (I can only assume that your definition of destroy is to completely eradicate every square inch of iran which is absolutely absurd). A single nuke could completely disable Iran for all you know

Absolute maximum with all wind conditions etc etc, nuke damage max radius: 250 miles = 400 km

Iran : 636.372 km²

why even bother pointing this out? what does land mass have to do with the ability of a government to function properly?

emotion? What emotion? That Israel cant take nukes? LOL
What emotion am i appealing too? Its reality :smoking:

:upstare: appeal to emotion

you said:

hehe, o yes ofcourse -> on with the ungrounded mindless insults aye, seems to be an ongoing problem with you (and now you have me do it too, lol), along with your fanatical assumptions.

"fanatical" assumptions ...lol

I'm sorry i must have missed the part where you said i would want to hear Iran should get nuked to remove the threat, just because i said i didnt think pre-emptive strikes were bad per definition.
Way to go Sterno

black and white vince black and white "it means what it means, it can only have one meaning"



now for the love of whatever god you subscribe to COULD WE REMAIN ON TOPIC JUST THIS ONCE? and not nitpick one freakin sentence to death for another 4 pages?

 

[Ome_Vince]

This is incredible. I'm not quote-waring with you again, since you seem to enjoy pulling all kinds of things out of proportion, pushing me into the conservative corner, as if i see things black & white.
Youve succesfully derailed a discussion about your silly biased assumptions, flipped that around as if i support striking Iran.
Way to go sterno, i suggest you keep thinking that -> i dont care anymore.
It seems your only strategy when having discussions with me, and its highly frustrating.
Keep pulling the "your a conservative dude who wishes to nuke arabs" card.
None of the things you just said, have i ever said or supported. Israel's right to defend itself with nuclear weapons? Where the **** did you get that from?
I take what you've said or implied and respond to it, and it always ends up in a dirty mudslinging campaign of useless crap (and this is only with you funny enough).

Considering my time, and for the well-being of this topic, yes indeed, lets get back on topic. You keep thinking i'm a conservative supporting the nuking of Iran. It only shows your own limited black & white views of the world (and people).

As for Iraq being Hell, yes it is indeed, funny enough, perhaps its better the Americans stay, it seems to be the only thing uniting that country other than what Saddam managed to do (even if it is uniting in hatred ). That country is on a spiral towards Civil War
(Note: its a joke, so dont go all testostoron on me)

 

[CptStern]

This is incredible.

not really


incredible: 1. so extraordinary as to seem impossible

the only way my response would be impossible is if you hadnt made your posts in the first place...I cant answer what hasnt been written

^- an example of dry wit/sarcasm

I'm not quote-waring with you again, since you seem to enjoy pulling all kinds of things out of proportion, pushing me into the conservative corner, as if i see things black & white.

where are you getting conservative from? I never called you conservative ...frankly I dont know where your irrational support of israel stems from ..and I dont pretend to assume I do either

Youve succesfully derailed a discussion

excuse me? it was you who derailed the subject into a geographical analysis as to which country has more landmass to eradicate

about your silly biased assumptions,

I can assure you my "assumptions" are not based on silliness ..I try to keep my assumptions silly free (dry wit again)

flipped that around as if i support striking Iran.

we're talking about 2 diferent things Vince ..it's a commonality in all of our exchanges..you seem to think eradicate whereas I'm saying surgical strike

Way to go sterno, i suggest you keep thinking that -> i dont care anymore.
It seems your only strategy when having discussions with me, and its highly frustrating.

my strategy? the silly one you were referring to earlier? it is you who misinterpret everything I say ..sure I'm partly to blame for my wording but at some point that stops being an excuse you can use effectively

Keep pulling the "your a conservative dude who wishes to nuke arabs" card.

please point out where I've ever said that

None of the things you just said, have i ever said or supported. Israel's right to defend itself with nuclear weapons? Where the **** did you get that from?

look for gods sakes man defense is NOT offense. Stop mixing up the two. And yes you defend Israels right to have nukes ..I've brought it up time and again that they're breaking international law by having nukes and you've bruushed it off as they have to defend themselves from eradication by their enemies

I take what you've said or implied and respond to it, and it always ends up in a dirty mudslinging campaign of useless crap (and this is only with you funny enough).

no you dont, you selectively pick a few points and run with it ..you've done the same with Mechagodzilla, No Limit and others ..they respond in detail and you continuie to harp on a few points ignoring the bulk of what they've said

Considering my time, and for the well-being of this topic, yes indeed, lets get back on topic. You keep thinking i'm a conservative supporting the nuking of Iran.

I never said that you're conservative or that you want israel to nuke iran

It only shows your own limited black & white views of the world (and people).

lol, come on ..you cant possibly expect anyone to swallow that nonsense I probably have more insight into global politics than anyone here

As for Iraq being Hell, yes it is indeed, funny enough, perhaps its better the Americans stay, it seems to be the only thing uniting that country other than what Saddam managed to do (even if it is uniting in hatred ). That country is on a spiral towards Civil War
(Note: its a joke, so dont go all testostoron on me)

the US no intention in leaving iraq ..that was never the plan from the get go...the US is there to stay

 

[Ome_Vince]

Funny how you only quote 1 of the definitions of the word "incredible". Heh, thats how you work dont you? Selectively use explanations to your advantage.

anyways, You "forgot" this one:

not credible; hard to believe; unbelievable: The plot of the book is incredible.

Irrational support for Israel? Please point out which parts are irrational.
Please show me where i am so irrationally supporting for Israel?
Because i dont think Israel's illegal attack on Osirik was "bad" or Israel possibly having Nukes is "bad"? Thats so irrational?
Because I think if Iran obtains nukes, the situation would get worse, especially considering their leaders public calls for destruction?
That kinda pushes me into supporting a strike on Iran aye? What a bullshit.
And me who derailed the discussion? I'm adding stuff to a list you setup because you (again) assumed i was aiming at Iran being a big nuclear threat that would nuke Israel. (why else through such a dickheaded list at me "Iran : 0 Israel: +200).
Never have i supported an attack on Iran, or implied there "should" be one.
Never have i implied or said Iran would nuke Israel, or anything similar.
O, and way-to-go on trying to generalise and pull others into this silly discussion.
Its all about your assumptions, which is what it continiously comes down to (and with YOU, -> no-one else).
I wonder what strategy you'll try next

You ask to end the quote-wars and get on topic, I agree, and end it. Yet you feel the need to "surgically strike" (lol) my exit-post AGAIN with quote-wars AGAIN derailing AGAIN pulling things out of context.
(funny how you accuse ME of selectively taking a few points, quoting and building on that -> pot meet kettel).

You indeed never called me a conservative, yet you constantly push me into a corner as if i share their views.
Also interesting how your ego is so inflated you dare pronounce you probably have "more insights into global politics than anyone here".
Ah well, what does it all matter, i'm so sick of this, can we please keep this topic clean, and ontopic, i will await a PM where we can happily continue this useless mudslinging you so enjoy => so this topic doesnt get completely destroyed.

 

[Spoonoop]

i have no business here but I couldn't resist

 

[CptStern]

hehe a handfull of guys with box cutters did a pretty good job of making you stand up and take notice ..whole armies cant make you crumble to your kneees but guys with boxcutters can ...set a really good precedent for future terrorist attacks

and yes you have no business here :E


Ome_Vince: this is me not really caring enough to reply to your post

/bored out of my mind Stern walks out the door

 

[Baserape>]

I think it's about time we have a Ome_Vince VS CptStern thread. And then have a public vote to see who won the show case show down.

/Walks into glass door

 

[CptStern]

hehe I doubt the majority of Hl2.netters would get past the first page

 

[Ome_Vince]

heh, i'm not even entering that. I have better things to do

As for Iraq, I do think the US will leave, they'll leave, w8 for the Civil War to finally erupt, then point out "we did our best to protect freedom".
Which Freedom is that i sometimes wonder.

 

[CptStern]

they're not going anywhere

http://www.cfr.org/publication/9388...tary_presence_in_the_persian_gulf_region.html
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/nation/president/2004-05-24-bush-iraq_x.htm
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D0CEFD61F30F936A35757C0A967958260