Iraqi PM hails vote as 'victory'

[Solaris]

Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri Maliki has hailed a largely peaceful vote for new provincial councils across the country as a victory for all Iraqis.

Voting was extended by one hour due to a strong turnout, including among Sunni Muslims who boycotted the last polls.

The first nationwide vote in four years is being seen as a test of Iraq's stability ahead of a general election due later this year.

Thousands of soldiers and police were deployed around polling stations.
The election is also being seen as a quasi-referendum on the leadership of Mr Maliki.
"This is a victory for all the Iraqis," he said, after casting his vote in Baghdad's highly-protected Green Zone.

He said a high turnout would be an indicator of "the Iraqi people's trust in their government and in the elections" and "proof that the Iraqi people are now living in real security".

It's nice to see Iraq is really starting to move towards a decent future, with the appalling levels of violence we've seen in the last few years failing to prevent Iraq's transition from a totalitarian dictatorship to a free and democratic state.

It must be great as an Iraqi to be able to vote for who you want without fearing for your life given Iraqs past.

Whether you think the invasion was a mistake or not, I'm sure we can all welcome peaceful elections. Hopefully as Iraq starts to improve some more and the coalition forces withdraw; its success will inspire movements in other Middle Eastern countries such as Iran and Saudi Arabia to push for democracy in their own country.

All human beings deserve to choose their own government regardless of race or religion, humanity as a whole should be thankful to the coalition forces for bringing that right to the people of Iraq and giving them dignity as free citizens.

 

[Warped]

lets just hope this peace lasts for a long time. it seems like pakistan is having more trouble than iraq now in terms of terrorist uprisings and there are 50 nukes sitting in that country. if it falls to the bad guys expect a big problem

 

[<RJMC>]

solaris defending the goverment the us placed by force?

 

[Solaris]

solaris defending the goverment the us placed by force?

Most free nations were established by 'force'.

 

[Cornerstone]

All free nations define what meant by free. Hmmmmmmm.

 

[Tagaziel]

Most free nations were established by 'force'.

Such as?

 

[Solaris]

Such as?

The USA, I'd say Britian and France to with regards to the civil war and the French revolution.

But is this really a worthwhile line of argument to go down.

All I'm saying is, it is not wrong to use force to create a democratic government, democracy almost always needs to be fought for.

 

[Emporius]

Yay, now they can ELECT their corrupt government officials. :dozey:

 

[swan_song1973]

yeah, he would say that.

 

[Tagaziel]

The USA, I'd say Britian and France to with regards to the civil war and the French revolution.

But is this really a worthwhile line of argument to go down.

All I'm saying is, it is not wrong to use force to create a democratic government, democracy almost always needs to be fought for.

The brutal USSR didn't slaughter the Baltic States or East Germany when they moved towards independence and democracy, even though it laid in their power.

 

[Cornerstone]

Democracy now equals freedom. Hooray for association and propaganda.

 

[staticprimer]

The USA, I'd say Britian and France to with regards to the civil war and the French revolution.

But is this really a worthwhile line of argument to go down.

All I'm saying is, it is not wrong to use force to create a democratic government, democracy almost always needs to be fought for.

Yes, it is true force is sometimes needed to create democracies. That force needs to be internal though. The USA, Britain, and France all had the enlightenment framework needed to create the representative democracy that you seem to believe in synonymous with freedom. Show me that framework in Iraq.

 

[Sulkdodds]

All things proceed by some kind of force.

 

[PvtRyan]

All sex is preceded by force.

 

[Vegeta897]

So Iraqi PM'd vote and addressed him as victory?

 

[jet_porkins]

It really makes me wonder what those voters/citizens would be doing right now if the U.S. decision-makers felt like Obama at the time and never invaded Iraq.

 

[Laivasse]

Maybe they'd be chatting to the million or so Iraqis who might be still alive.

 

[Escaep]

Maybe they'd be chatting to the million or so Iraqis who might be still alive.

It baffles me how people can believe that statistic.

 

[Laivasse]

Maybe because it's what the two most robust assessments so far (Lancet and ORB) hint at? (Note: upper boundary of the 95% Lancet confidence interval was still over 900k in 2006)

This has been discussed here at length without anyone pointing out a significant flaw. Unless you have a new critique forthcoming...? Don't just start parroting the IBC again; even they acknowledge their own tally as an undercount.

 

[Escaep]

Maybe because it's what the two most robust assessments so far (Lancet and ORB) hint at? (Note: upper boundary of the 95% Lancet confidence interval was still over 900k in 2006)

This has been discussed here at length without anyone pointing out a significant flaw. Unless you have a new critique forthcoming...? Don't just start parroting the IBC again; even they acknowledge their own tally as an undercount.

OK. If an average of 456 people dying a day since the war began sounds correct then it must be. Or more specifically since you cited the Lancet estimate in 2006 at 900k deaths with 913 people dying a day then I guess that makes it more accurate.

I stand corrected. :upstare:

 

[Laivasse]

Although Burnham, Roberts & co. have responded to all criticism comprehensively and convincingly, in light of your withering sarcasm I'm sure they'll now be retracting their entire survey. Why don't you direct the same criticism to the science adviser to the British Ministry of Defence, or all the statisticians who commend the methodology as the best available?

I cited the upper boundary of the 2006 survey not because it's an accurate representation of their findings, but to show how here, in 2009, the Lancet report can support an estimate of excess deaths of 'a million or so' as I said (thanks for the implicit straw man).

BTW even the Iraqi ministry of health's estimate for 2006 was not much lower at 400k, they simply differed in what they thought were the proportion of violent deaths (150k, but the 400k were still considered excess deaths due to the war). The The Iraqi MoH's estimate is however riddled with problems and generally unscientific.

I note that all you seem to be implying, with your sarcasm, is that the above estimates don't 'sound correct'. Well wow. Instead of spending money, time and toil on using best practice to figure out a good estimate, why didn't the Lancet and the ORB just contact you to ask you what kind of figure 'sounds correct'?? Those fools!

 

[No Limit]

A million+ people dead and we get another election, wooohooo! Tell me Solaris, do you know anything about the people they actually elected?

 

[No Limit]

And just ran in to this story from the BBC this morning. Freedom on the march:

A sculpture of a shoe erected in Iraq to honour a journalist who threw his footwear at George W Bush has been dismantled, reports say.

Foreign media say the bronze-coloured fibre-glass shoe was removed from its site in the city of Tikrit on the orders of the local authorities.

It had been erected in the grounds of an orphanage.

The monument was reportedly taken down just a day after being unveiled in the late Saddam Hussein's home town.

The head of the Childhood organisation, which owns the orphanage, said she had been told to remove the monument immediately by the Salaheddin Provincial Joint Coordination Centre.

...

Since his arrest, the TV journalist has reportedly been beaten in custody, suffering a broken arm, broken ribs and internal bleeding.

He has been charged with aggression against a foreign head of state, and faces up to 15 years in jail if convicted. His family denies he has done anything wrong.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7862180.stm

I guess they are free as long as free means not insulting the once great leader of the united states.

 

[V-Man339]

I can't help but find that direct democracy is much more balanced than electing a single person to rule for whatever he thinks, wether he told you he was going to do so or lied about it in the election.

 

[unozero]

And just ran in to this story from the BBC this morning. Freedom on the march:



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7862180.stm

I guess they are free as long as free means not insulting the once great leader of the united states.

lol libfag good job in posting something not related to the topi,c just so can jerk off and hate bush some more.



back on topic good for them I hope things will get even better once the bulk of foreign troops leave.

 

[Emporius]

lol confag seeing black and white

 

[Sulkdodds]

lol libfag good job in posting something not related to the topi,c just so can jerk off and hate bush some more.

The topic is about Iraqi 'freedom' and elections, and Solaris has already made it about the question of whether the war was 'worth it'.

Examples of the liberty (or lack thereof) afforded by the new regime are completely on-topic.

 

[Sam]

Freedom is the right of all sentient beings.

 

[Solaris]

And just ran in to this story from the BBC this morning. Freedom on the march:



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7862180.stm

I guess they are free as long as free means not insulting the once great leader of the united states.

If you read the article you'll see it was built on government property with a state organisation. If an orphanage in Britain decided to use it's funds to erect political statues, it would be pulled down too.

 

[Laivasse]

Although the dismantling of the shitty little statue hardly seems as big an issue as the torturing of a guy for throwing a shoe. If you were of a mind to be at all cynical, you might even postulate that the motive for tearing down the shoe was the same as the motive behind the torture.

 

[No Limit]

If you read the article you'll see it was built on government property with a state organisation. If an orphanage in Britain decided to use it's funds to erect political statues, it would be pulled down too.

That's fair enough, but I was more worried about the fact he got his ass kicked to the point of internal bleeding and that he is now facing 15 years in prison, where he will probably continue to get his ass kicked. You didn't answer my other question, you seem extremely stoked about this election, but do you actually know anything about the people that they elected? Wouldn't it be smart for you to wait and see the results before jumping up in the air claiming "mission accomplished"? I would love nothing more than to be proven wrong, but I'm sure you are aware of other middle eastern elections that didn't work out so well in terms of advancing freedom.

 

[Dinkleberry]

Freedom is the right of all sentient beings.

How come?

 

[Solaris]

That's fair enough, but I was more worried about the fact he got his ass kicked to the point of internal bleeding and that he is now facing 15 years in prison, where he will probably continue to get his ass kicked. You didn't answer my other question, you seem extremely stoked about this election, but do you actually know anything about the people that they elected? Wouldn't it be smart for you to wait and see the results before jumping up in the air claiming "mission accomplished"? I would love nothing more than to be proven wrong, but I'm sure you are aware of other middle eastern elections that didn't work out so well in terms of advancing freedom.

Well firstly, as far as I'm aware, only his lawyers are claiming he was mistreated; is there any evidence that that actually happened?

Clearly abusing prisoners is not acceptable; however it is a step up from the Sadamm era. If we're talking about torture and prison beatings; Iraq has improved MASSIVELY in the last 5 years. Undeniably.

Now, who the Iraqis elected? I have no idea. However, I know a bit about President Telibani or whatever he's called. He is a good social democrat from Kurdistan.

 

[No Limit]

Well firstly, as far as I'm aware, only his lawyers are claiming he was mistreated; is there any evidence that that actually happened?

Clearly abusing prisoners is not acceptable; however it is a step up from the Sadamm era. If we're talking about torture and prison beatings; Iraq has improved MASSIVELY in the last 5 years. Undeniably.

Now, who the Iraqis elected? I have no idea. However, I know a bit about President Telibani or whatever he's called. He is a good social democrat from Kurdistan.

Not only his lawyer, his family also. And the judge that saw him a few days later said he had injuries to his face from being beaten. You can excuse that on the culture, fine. But what's your excuse for the fact that he is facing 15 years for this? This is directly attributed to their "democratic legal system".

The fact you have no idea who they elected is exactly my point. You might want to wait to find out before you claim democracy is taking course. Will you be as gleeful is they elected a bunch of religious extremists that support shira law?

 

[unozero]

Freedom is the right of all sentient beings.

are you one of dem vegan terrerwrists?

 

[No Limit]

And run in to this other interesting story today:

A gay Iraqi man due for deportation tomorrow has been told by the UK Border Agency to conduct his relationships "in private" on his return to Iraq, where homosexuality is punishable by death.

Campaign group Iraqi LGBT says the asylum seeker will become the seventh gay Iraqi to be returned to the country by the UK, despite the country being one of only nine in the world where homosexual people are executed.

Though a ruling was made in September 2007 allowing two gay Iraqis to remain in the UK, campaigners working on behalf of the man facing deportation tomorrow say his case was held too long ago to benefit from the change in case law achieved in 2007.

Keith Best, the director of the Immigration Advisory Service, told the Guardian that the government ought to give the asylum seeker a fresh hearing.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/feb/03/gay-iraqi-asylum-seeker

Freedom for all (unless you're a faggit of course). I hope I am missing something here, but the article seems to clearly state under the current legal system homosexuality is punishable by death. This is what a million + people and a trillion + dollars got us?

 

[V-Man339]

Why are we worried more about the corruption of people in other countries more than our own?

 

[Eejit]

Well if it's a country that yours went to war with in order to replace a corrupt repressive regime with something 'better' it's at least as important. Probably more so given that hundreds of thousands of people haven't died to put corrupt politicians into power in your own country.