Is the FPS genre dead?

[TwwIX]

Bioshock is a tad overrated imo.
Don't get me wrong,the games story was great and very engaging.
Gameplay wise,it didn't really bring anything breathtakingly new to the table though.
TF2 without a doubt is my all new favorite game.
It has rekindled my interest in Half Life and it's community especially.
I wish more games and mods would follow this trend and try adding a new spin to them.
I would love to see more co-op oriented shooters in the future.
Rainbow Six Vegas could've been a great game if it wasn't just a shitty console port.
We'll see how Left4Dead turns out to be.I have high hopes for it.

 

[Warbie]

I would love to see more co-op oriented shooters in the future.

Totally, co-op is awesome. I'd love a campaign driven fps designed around co-op play only.

Which brings me nicely onto Halo 3 which, despite what some people feel about the series, deserves nothing but praise for its co-op game. Recently i've been playing co-op with a mate on Legendary (naturally) and we've been using the Tough Luck Skull (your enemies never back down, always make their saving throws, and always charge you), Catch Skull (your Enemies throw LOTS of grenades), Thunderstorm Skull (all enemies are given a field promotion, and ranked up to their next available level), Tilt Skull (makes enemy resistance much greater. For example, Brute power armor becomes nearly impossible to take out with anything but plasma ), Mythic Skull (all enemies have double their usual health), Cowbell Skull (explosions become much bigger in the game) and the result is the most intense and visceral combat i've experienced. For the first time in a co-op fps the focus is firmly on cooperation, because without it you're ****ed.

There is so much potential for co-op. Can't wait for Left 4 Dead :bounce:

 

[Cormeh]

Which brings me nicely onto Halo 3 which, despite what some people feel about the series, deserves nothing but praise for its co-op game. Recently i've been playing co-op with a mate on Legendary, naturally, and we've been using the Tough Luck Skull (your enemies never back down, always make their saving throws, and always charge you), Catch Skull (your Enemies throw LOTS of grenades), Thunderstorm Skull (all enemies are given a field promotion, and ranked up to their next available level), Tilt Skull (makes enemy resistance much greater. For example, Brute power armor becomes nearly impossible to take out with nearly anything except for plasma bursts), Mythic Skull (all enemies have double their usual health), Cowbell Skull (explosions become much bigger in the game) and the result is the most intense and visceral combat i've experienced in a fps. For the first time in any co-op gamei've played the focus is firmly on cooperation, because without it you're ****ed.

That is some creepy shit, that is exactly how I've been playing H3 recently, and it is indeed awesome. :O

However, co-op can't really be used to define an excellent FPS experience, because co-op is normally an added bonus of any single-player campaign.

The FPS genre isn't dead, the problem is just how it's evolving. Today, you wouldn't so much as look at a game like the original DooM where the interface is basic point;shoot;repeat stuff, you're after story, atmosphere, immersion, weapons, powers (optional), tactics, RPG, item balance etc etc.

A lot of games try to implement too much of these things in one go and make a pigs ear of it. Although for the most part developers are to blame, the community does have a snobby expectation of what games should be like.

 

[Pesmerga]

It was just more of MoH: Allied Assault.

Uh, no it wasn't.

 

[Warbie]

However, co-op can't really be used to define an excellent FPS experience, because co-op is normally an added bonus of any single-player campaign.

I think H3, especially as we can now score chase and change core gameplay elements, has shown how co-op can be more than an aside. I consider the campain, co-op and multiplayer as quite different entities, something previous games in the series, or any other co-op fps for that matter, has yet to manage.

I agree with pretty much everything else, especially about developers trying to produce the all singing all, dancing fps and ****ing up the basics. These games often end up the polar opposite of Halo 3, which has nothing but the basics - they're just done so well. You could add co-op, the meta game and Skulls to 99% of fps and they wouldn't work. They work in Halo 3 because they're built on a solid foundation.

All this is just scratching the surface of what co-op could bring to fps.

 

[Bad^Hat]

Considering I'm currently tearing my hair out in anticipation for the Orange Box (gets here late and my 360 is being repaired): No, I think not.

 

[Asknoone]

The problem with FPS is, really, games like Halo, and all those who try to follow its mundane example...which seems to be almost all of them lately. Pariah kicked off with a good concept, but it turned out be one of the worst games I have ever played and a lot of that was down to how much they had picked from Halo. There's not much chance of repeating Halo's success, nor doing the things Bungie do well as well in your game, so why bother?

Developers are far too jammed into the idea of making the game a shooting gallery with flat, uninteresting gameplay. They should look to games like Half-life 2+Ep2, Metal Gear Solid or even Resident Evil 4 on how to keep a game fresh on gameplay, and how to make it an experience, rather than just a "pop up and shoot."

 

[Warbie]

Do I take the bait? Surely it's a trap.

*looks around nervously*

 

[Bad^Hat]

Yeah, agreed 110%

Halo is much the same as World of Warcraft in this respect. Fine games, but what they've spawned for their respective genres due to their success hasn't done either any favours. Especially since the larger game development community seems to have translated this as simply "mediocrity = sales".

I'd say the shooter is far from dead, but it's probably the one genre that's most direly in need of some innovation. Bioshock was a step in the right direction, and Valve are still doing their part and then some.

That said, there's always room for a few brainless boom-fests like Halo, as long as it's not at the cost of variety.

 

[Asuka]

What are you talking about? Call of Duty was an amazing cinematic adventures. The pacing was well laid out and every scenario was different- the final rush into Berlin was probably one of the most climactic points of gaming experience for me.

I dont think so, Call of Duty 1 had a interesting take on cool events but 2/3 are the same old with better gfx. As a matter of fake 2 has the worst pacing in the world.

It took you until CoD4 to realise this? Try CoD 1. The FPS genre has always been bland.

The only COD game that has impressed me is 4, i dont know why but i think they are doing some interesting things with mp.

The problem with FPS is, really, games like Halo, and all those who try to follow its mundane example...which seems to be almost all of them lately. Pariah kicked off with a good concept, but it turned out be one of the worst games I have ever played and a lot of that was down to how much they had picked from Halo. There's not much chance of repeating Halo's success, nor doing the things Bungie do well as well in your game, so why bother?

Developers are far too jammed into the idea of making the game a shooting gallery with flat, uninteresting gameplay. They should look to games like Half-life 2+Ep2, Metal Gear Solid or even Resident Evil 4 on how to keep a game fresh on gameplay, and how to make it an experience, rather than just a "pop up and shoot."

I agree 100% one thing that bothers the shit out of me about Bungie is their use of the same level OVER AND OVER again. They copy paste maps right next to each other. Sometimes they invert and paste again. So much of Halo 1 was the same map over and over again. Not to mention the part in Halo 3 where you fight that big spider robot. They used that same arena 3 times not to mention the inside was again, COPY PASTE!

I think coop is the future of MP. Games like the crossing have so much potential. Even tho that game might not be the one to kick start it all. I think we are going to see huge games focused around coop. Left4Dead, The Crossing, Haze, BoarderLands

 

[Warbie]

Fine games, but what they've spawned for their respective genres due to their success hasn't done either any favours

It's not fair to blame any game for those that follow. I mean something like Pariah, it was utter rubbish. So was Unreal 2, and many others. In no way should Halo be blamed for that (and that's before we go into how very different these games are in the first place)

I still find it mildly insulting when someone descibes Halo as brainless as the game took me almost a year to master where as virtually every other fps bends over in a week or two. Try playing Halo 3 in co-op with a few skulls, you'll soon see how far from mindless it can be.

And come on now, Asuka, criticising Halo 3 for copy/paste is really clutching at straws. Fair enough with the original, that was guilty on more than a few occasions, but no. 3 is as varied as virtually any fps I could name.

 

[Asuka]

It's not fair to blame any game for those that follow. I mean something like Pariah, it was utter rubbish. So was Unreal 2, and many others. In no way should Halo be blamed for that (and that's before we go into how very different these games are in the first place)

I still find it mildly insulting when someone descibes Halo as brainless as the game took me almost a year to master where as virtually every other fps bends over in a week or two. Try playing Halo 3 in co-op with a few skulls, you'll soon see how far from mindless it can be.

Halo 3 is EXTREAMLY mindless, the story became rubbish, mind you im still playing it. On chapter 4 or something, and when most of the time i cant wait to finish a game, i play this one once every week. The level design is RETARDED, how do you use the same level more then 2 times? So much as to use it 4-5 times? I look at Valve and how they put a effect to make everything look different and unique. Yes sometimes it warrants to make something look the same, but shit the world of Halo is all about looking the same. Want more detail read my post above.

Im not bashing Halo really. Part 1 was fine it was a cool fps, had some interesting different things, coop, and a interesting storyline. Two was all downhill, 3 so far is just a joke. You cant respect a game like this.

When people say its all marketing it really is.. Halo 3 would never survive if it wasnt the ONLY game on xbox worth owning and for all these cgi and over hyped ass trailers.

 

[Warbie]

Halo 3 is EXTREAMLY mindless

Ok, i'll bite. How so?

btw, have you even played the meta game? Or seen how involved co-op is once you start adding skulls?

Halo 3 would never survive if it wasnt the ONLY game on xbox worth owning and for all these cgi and over hyped ass trailers.

:thumbs:

 

[Cormeh]

Don't bite, Warbie! /o\

 

[Warbie]

Don't bite, Warbie! /o\

I think it's too late!

*takes deep breaths*

All better now. Back on topic!

 

[Asuka]

Ok, i'll bite. How so?

btw, have you even played the meta game? Or seen how involved co-op is once you start adding skulls?



:thumbs:

I already posted my reasons, i feel there is no need to post more. Oh and btw I only play the Halo games coop. Listen i bought them all for a reason, they are fun here and there are are generally speaking worth it. Im trying not to bash the game, but its how i feel about it, same goes for a few guys i know. You want depth look at Deus Ex, thats TRUE depth.

Now only if there was a COOP Deus Ex game. The world would probably collapse.

 

[Warbie]

You want depth look at Deus Ex, thats TRUE depth

A very different kind of depth. I can see why we disagree now, though.

 

[Asuka]

So tell me about the Skulls, how do they make your exp deeper and more fun. I havnt got a chance to play with any yet. From what i have been told its just silly difficulty changes and restrictions. Im playing on Legendary right now btw.

 

[Bad^Hat]

It's not fair to blame any game for those that follow. I mean something like Pariah, it was utter rubbish. So was Unreal 2, and many others. In no way should Halo be blamed for that (and that's before we go into how very different these games are in the first place)

I wasn't critising Halo, as I said I thought they were fine games. I'm not sure I know what you mean by 'blame', but it's undeniable that other companies are trying to copy the Bungie's success, what with the resultant mega-boom of console shooters. Does that mean Bungie should never have made the game? No. It's just an unfortunate side-effect when everyone and their uncle wants to jump on the bandwagon (as with WoW).

I started typing up a response to the rest of your post, but then I remembered how pissed off I normally get when threads degenerate into Halo debates.

 

[xcellerate]

I could probably count on two hands how many soldiers you go through. Which is a very good thing for gameplay, I think.

I hated that, I enjoy fighting combine, I hate fighting hunters and stalkers.

 

[Asknoone]

Do I take the bait? Surely it's a trap.

*looks around nervously*

*Giggles*

It's not fair to blame any game for those that follow. I mean something like Pariah, it was utter rubbish. So was Unreal 2, and many others. In no way should Halo be blamed for that (and that's before we go into how very different these games are in the first place)

Yeah, it should be said I wasn't blaming Halo for the failure of Pariah and its developers. There's plenty other critical errors going on in that circle, and whilst they certainly surface here and there in other shooters, they haven't quite done so as much as they did in Pariah.

I hated that, I enjoy fighting combine, I hate fighting hunters and stalkers.

You don't fight Stalkers, I don't think. And those enemies - or other enemies in general - have absolutely nothing at all to do with my point.

Yeah, agreed 110%

Halo is much the same as World of Warcraft in this respect. Fine games, but what they've spawned for their respective genres due to their success hasn't done either any favours. Especially since the larger game development community seems to have translated this as simply "mediocrity = sales".

I'd say the shooter is far from dead, but it's probably the one genre that's most direly in need of some innovation. Bioshock was a step in the right direction, and Valve are still doing their part and then some.

That said, there's always room for a few brainless boom-fests like Halo, as long as it's not at the cost of variety.

Basically, yeah. I think Crysis is a good example of the wrong direction.

 

[Warbie]

So tell me about the Skulls, how do they make your exp deeper and more fun. I havnt got a chance to play with any yet. From what i have been told its just silly difficulty changes and restrictions. Im playing on Legendary right now btw.

I guess it depends how you look at it. Halo 3 is considerably easier than the previous games in the series, even on Legendary (which is more like the original Heroic). Legendary on co-op is even easier again as you have twice the fire power.

With skulls you can increase the challenge and alter gameplay tremendously - the main result being a far greater emphasis on cooperation with the guy you're playing with. When a Brute has twice as much health and his armour can't be taken down without plasma (cheap Battle Rifle headshots from a distance no longer work) he is a far stronger foe. Now add the fact that he's far more aggresive than normal and often one of a pack and you'll see how tricky situations can be. A single grunt can now kill you and nades are flying everywhere - the bigger explosions sending cover that would have remained stationary flying. Everything is more dynamic - you need to react faster and have a greater sense of situational awreness. You'll have to learn how to move through levels as a pair, covering each other, one taking out shields, one popping headshots. Using equipment well, drawing enemy out for your partner to take down - and you'll have to be able to do all of this instinctively as it only takes a second for you to both die. I've played ALOT of co-op games and none are as involved as this.

Not only is the challenge and demand on teamwork that much greater, but the meta game requires doing things fast for a decent no. of points. Skulls also act as multipliers - the harder it is the bigger the score - and you get rewared for playing well and with style - headshots, sticking the enemy with nades etc etc all adding to your total. Everything is focussed on you improving your skill and working well in a pair.

But yeh, it's mindless :rolling:

 

[Asuka]

I dont see that really as depth but i guess it is based on how you see depth.

 

[kupocake]

Bits of Halo are far better than most of what we'd seen in the years running up to it. Whilst later iterations have been far more consistent products, that polish has been at the expense of Halo 1's more pioneering spirit. Hopefully now Bungie have split from Microsoft, we'll see something with the best of both worlds. The polished, pioneering FPS that Halo 1 promised to be in the first place.

I don't think Halo is responsible for the stagnation of the genre. I think the franchise itself stagnated somewhat, but the best is yet to come.

 

[Warbie]

I would love the best aspects of Halo to meet the best of Half-Life. It would be glorious.

 

[Absinthe]

Alyx/Cortana wrasslin'?

Yeah. That would indeed be glorious.

 

[Warbie]

It would indeed

As 12" female ai made out of blue light go, Cortana is pretty foxy. I think my transformation into gaming nerd is now complete.

 

[kupocake]

It would indeed

As 12" female ai made out of blue light go, Cortana is pretty foxy. I think my transformation into gaming nerd is now complete.

Isn't the appropriate smiley: :dork:

Always wanted to use that one.

 

[Warbie]

Glad to have helped

 

[Kadayi]

Hell, the HL2 episodes aren't really so much FPS now as they are simply FP.

I agree completely. The range of gaming experiences that fall under the loose genre of FPS is so broad it's really time some new definitions came up. FPS Games like Halo3 & Cod4 I then to think of as 'straight shooters', games like Crysis or Stalker are 'sandbox shooters' and games like HL2 & Bioshock are more 'FP adventures'. I think it's acceptable to compare games within their respective categories, but it's the height of stupidity to compare across categories.

 

[Shift]

I thought CoD 4 was brilliant and the multiplayer a huge breath of fresh air, adding awsome new gameplay elements, so no, the genre isn't dead.

For the record, I hated Bioshock, that is because I played it for an hour and was bored. Halo 3, I was bored within 10 minutes. It hard to see how certain FPSs will be revived, but they should either take Valve's example, and build it through exellent storywriting and immersion, or CoD 4, which is have the same engine, but just give it a new coat of paint to make it interesting and exiting the next time around.