Is Valve intergrating the AI Director in EP?

[cheesepie]

We all know that Valve likes to constantly improve technologies for the Source engine. Well, one of Valve's biggest technologies recently is Left 4 Dead's AI Director. It is entirely possible that Valve is even now using the AI Director to create a more dynamic single player experience for EP3.

My Conspiracy Theory:

The AI Director in EP3 is one of Valve's "very good reasons" for the very long delay for any EP3 info. Think about it: If Valve is integrating the AI Director with Episode three, then it will take a lot of time. Half-Life 2 is much more complicated then Left 4 Dead. There are scripted events, more NPC characters, much more variance in enemy types, more possible enemy actions, etc.

That's all the stuff I can think of now....

P.S. If I am in any way correct, I hereby claim all bragging rights.

 

[Barnz]

Probably not for EP3, but hopefully for HL3.

 

[jeepis]

Seriously doubt it. The AI Director is in L4D2 to make the campaigns less repetetive, because you also play the campaigns online. For EP3 or HL3 it wouldn't make that much sense, since it's not like people will be playing the story through as many times as L4D2...

 

[PimpinPenguin]

Sorry, but Doug has already said in one of the interviews that the AI director will not be used in EP3. Half-Life requires a lot of hand tuning and it's built to wow you once or twice it's not built to be played differently. EP2 already has a very crude version of the AI director were it can make certain set pieces slightly different.
I don't think we will see the AI director in any of the Half -Life games, they are built to precise for something as random as the AI director.

 

[Kamikazie]

I'm going to say this. Look how Rockstar used the table tennis game to test certain aspects for GTA IV.

L4D could be the same for either EP3 or HL3. Discuss.

 

[PimpinPenguin]

The AI director - I don't want to say it fell out of Half-Life 2, but it was definitely a jumping-off point of stuff we did in Half-Life 2, particularly Episode 2. There are a couple of key battles where the number of Combine, and where they come at you from, uses something like that. It's much cruder than what we accomplished with Left 4 Dead, but there was some of that there. I think you can definitely extend that. You're still going to have that moment where you need those big Half-Life and Modern Warfare set-pieces where there's got to be some hand-stitching: by nature, that's going to be the same each time you play it. So it's weird: you're mixing replayable sandboxes with these climax moments which aren't going to have that - at least for the foreseeable future. I don't know to what extent that's enjoyed by the consumer. I don't know how many times people would be willing to play the single-player part of the experience.

My hunch is that, in the case of Half-Life, or Half-Life 2, or Modern Warfare, there's a chance that a higher proportion of people finish those games because the combat didn't feel like a shooting gallery and the climax were really satisfying. But my hunch is that people finish those games, and then they don't say: "Wow, that was so good, I want to play it again." I haven't spoken to people who have said, "I wanted to play Half-Life 2 ten times." Instead, they want to find out who the G-Man is.

Half-Life already has the AI Director. We are not going to get Left4Dead's AI director because it and Half-Life are two very different games. I personally hope Valve don't because i prefer the hand crafted set pieces to the AI Directed set pieces.

 

[cheesepie]

I didn't say that Valve would directly port the L4D Director, I just meant that Valve might add some of the more complex features of the AI Director.

One example could be the ability to increase/decrease zombies slightly in some scripted encounter based on the fact that the player has x amount of hp and y amount of ammo. NOT striders parachuting out of the air because you have the rocket launcher.

EP2 had only a really basic AI Director, and the fact that there even was a Director means Valve probably will add more of these features.

 

[Darkside55]

striders parachuting out of the air

I want to see this.

 

[Eejit]

Half-Life already has the AI Director. We are not going to get Left4Dead's AI director because it and Half-Life are two very different games. I personally hope Valve don't because i prefer the hand crafted set pieces to the AI Directed set pieces.

Eh you're assuming they're mutually exclusive.It's perfectly possible to mix the two methods.

 

[Asknoone]

Eejit is right; you can unify the two - it isn't a case of 'one or the other'.

 

[Przemek]

I would love something similar to AI director in a story driven single player game.
If I could play Half-Life the second time and encounter different enemies in different areas... it would be great, cause I could replay the game multiple times and never be bored

I don't think anyone wants to see similar gameplay to L4D in HL.
But I also don't think everybody loves the fact the game is exactly the same each time it is played...

 

[Eejit]

There are a lot of ways to combine the two approaches.
The AID choosing between multiple versions of the same scripted event at a particular point, controlling ammo or health spawns, having some areas completely controlled by AID (a Ravenholme-like environment perhaps) while others are wholly scripted, changing which scripted events occur at different areas of a level.
Lots of scope to play with which would allow Valve to maintain the quality of their set-pieces while increasing replayability.

 

[DEATH eVADER]

Couldn't they use the AI director exclusively for Item drops and Chaning the way you go through the maps (i.e. A passage way is blocked in one case, forcing you to go another way that you are unfamiliar with the last time you played)

It would resolve the randomness that the AI Director brings with it, and still brings linearity with it

I totally agree with what your saying Eejit; AID has different level of control depending on the map

 

[leib10]

Integrating the AI director is contradictory to the entire concept of the HL series: a few painstakingly designed setpiece battles that will play almost the same way almost every time. The AI director would effectively ruin this. However, I agree with the post above: it could randomly force the player to take alternate paths without really putting the X factor into the game.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

The AI director could be used for the sections between setpieces. Take the Highway 17 section of HL2 for example - use the director for the non-scripted bits of action, for random Combine/antlion encounters.

 

[TheOneFreeMan]

The AI director could be used for the sections between setpieces. Take the Highway 17 section of HL2 for example - use the director for the non-scripted bits of action, for random Combine/antlion encounters.

Would that not detract from atmosphere, to have random encounters with enemies which have no logical reason within the world for being there? There's always been a purpose for Combine attacking you in HL2 ... an outpost, or a blockade, or something along those lines. I'm not sure how you could make it totally random and maintain that.

 

[Przemek]

Would that not detract from atmosphere, to have random encounters with enemies which have no logical reason within the world for being there? There's always been a purpose for Combine attacking you in HL2 ... an outpost, or a blockade, or something along those lines. I'm not sure how you could make it totally random and maintain that.

I don't see a problem here. If it's important for the storyline, Combine soldiers would not be attacking. Instead, some offworld life (like headcrabs), zombies and zombines, stuff like that.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

That's pretty much what I mean. Pretty much all the combat sequences in HL2 are scripted to some extent. However, the non-set piece ones could be handled by the director as opposed to being strictly scripted.

 

[Absinthe]

I can see how it can be done, but it seems contrary to the design philosophy behind Half-Life and I don't think it would gel well even if you relegated it to between setpieces.

I'd rather not see it implemented to be honest.

 

[PimpinPenguin]

The only problem is the pacing, the great thing with Half-Life is the down time where you can relax and enjoy the environment between battles. If the Ai Director takes over between combat sequences it's just going to keep throwing out random critters to keep me supposedly entertained.

 

[Przemek]

I don't see why relaxed moments in the game wouldn't be possible with AI Director.
Also, what philosophy? Is Half-Life going to be extremely linear forever?

 

[PimpinPenguin]

I don't see why relaxed moments in the game wouldn't be possible with AI Director.
Also, what philosophy? Is Half-Life going to be extremely linear forever?

Well the Ai Director is supposed to make battles interesting and fun. If it sees i'm doing well with a lot of health it's going to want to give me a fight, unless Valve tell it that this area is meant for the player to relax in. I could see it used for ammo and health placement, that would work great. I just don't want to see the Ai Director involved in the battles or if it is have an option to disable it.

 

[Eejit]

It could be used to make battles tougher without adding extra battles - leaving pacing unaffected. Use your imagination, there are ways it could be used so that it only adds to HL rather than changing what the series is about or causing problems.
In theory at least, I'm no AI programmer

 

[Asknoone]

I don't see why relaxed moments in the game wouldn't be possible with AI Director.
Also, what philosophy? Is Half-Life going to be extremely linear forever?

The AI director would not re-contextualise the linearity of the Half-life series; Half-life is inherently linear, and it works purely on this basis. The use of the AI director would simply dictate the terms of 'open' combat sequences.

 

[swan_song1973]

that could be crazy enough to be true, but l4d is such a different kind of game i dont know if itd be able to translate well.

 

[Przemek]

Perhaps it's something else that's making the work so long... Image Based Rendering!

 

[Eejit]

I'd be surprised. Valve tend to focus on gameplay over graphic shineys.

 

[Xendance]

striders parachuting out of the air

Apart from Darkside55, did no one else notice this and just had to laugh?

 

[cheesepie]

Apart from Darkside55, did no one else notice this and just had to laugh?

Yeah, I have to admit, I surprised myself with that.

 

[cheesepie]

So, um, anyone else have a good theory why it's taking Valve Time Plus for anyone outside of Valve to get anything even remotely Ep3 related?

 

[Ennui]

I'm personally hoping it's because Ep3 is twice as long as Ep2 was and is going to kick ****ing ass.

 

[MorganFreeman911]

Apart from Darkside55, did no one else notice this and just had to laugh?

Yeah, I saw it

 

[Calhoun]

So, um, anyone else have a good theory why it's taking Valve Time Plus for anyone outside of Valve to get anything even remotely Ep3 related?

Valve probably realized it's a lot better to keep as much as possible secret, so that you can discover everything for yourself when it's released.

 

[ChiliFan]

I still think that at some point they decided the story or gameplay wasn't going the way they wanted and they re-did a whole chunk of it.

 

[Narvi]

My guess is they're having trouble implementing some new features. Like snow.

HEADCRABS FROM UNDER THE SNOW.

And what is this about Episode 2 having a crude version of the AI director?

 

[DEATH eVADER]

HEADCRABS FROM UNDER THE SNOW.

Cant be that hard, in HL1 you have headcrabs hiding in sand

 

[13LACKBISHOP]

I would only like certain things to be directed. Like rebel stashes so you have to look out for them even if you have played it though 5 or 6 times rather than just memorize the locations of the stashes(this includes different puzzles every time so it still keeps me on my toes). Other things include crates full of RPG rockets for taking out strider's and gunships. Gunships could also come form different sides of the map to prevent you from waiting with an RPG wherever they spawn. Dropships could also land in different places to prevent camping outside of a scripted point. Snipers could also be randomized as well as burrowed headcrabs,camping headcrabs, exploding barrels,extra things that the enemies cold use for cover like randomly placed barrels. A good idea would be to have a combine APC crash through a wall and hit one of your rebels but when you least expect it.

Things like the number of enemies,map,story and ammo placements should be left alone though.

If it could be implemented well I think it would be a good idea.

 

[PimpinPenguin]

Who camps in a Half-Life game?

 

[13LACKBISHOP]

Who camps in a Half-Life game?

I was referring to headcrabs hiding behind boxes and desks and stuff. Wrong choice of words me thinks. Oh and hiding near gunship spawns. I imagine people would do that though.

 

[Narvi]

Cant be that hard, in HL1 you have headcrabs hiding in sand

That's in the second game too, dude.