Is Warez Bad...

[Kamakiri]

...when you are going to buy the game anyway?

Ok just say if the HL2 warez came out 2 weeks before the release date? Would you people download it and play single player and buy the game anyway because you want to all play on multiplayer anyway?

Is this classed as a bad thing? If you really intend to buy it?

 

[Direwolf]

I suppose its just an ethics issue. Few big time games ever come out that early, and so many people just use that as an excuse.

 

[Tamora]

Well, I wouldn't call it a bad thing. But I believe that most people just d/l the game or music or what have you and then don't bother buying the software later, even though perhaps it's great.

Then again. Alot of music, films, games etc is not worth the money that you would spend on them since the authors didn't put a real effort to it.

I sometimes d/l software and test it out, and if it's good, perhaps I'll buy it
That's my 2 cents.

 

[Kamakiri]

HL2 is going to be released on the warez scene early because it's it's a world wide release. They always do.

How tempting hey...

 

[ComradeBadger]

I would never warez a game.... I'm sorry but since I am an amateur games developer myself I would hate it if people warezed a game of mine... so therefore I do unto others as I would like to be done unto me

 

[Tamora]

Good point mrBadger.

Well, I'm also into gamedesigning. I guess I will hate that too when I've released a game one day heh. But when you don't really have got an income you tend to download stuff sometimes. Though, if it's a game I really care about I'll of course go ahead and buy it. I know it's a little ****ed up but whatever

 

[Mountain Man]

The ends don't justify the means. Of course it's wrong to steal something, even if you plan on doing the right thing later.

Using that logic, go steal a car from a dealership, then go back a week later and try and pay for it and see if your ass doesn't wind up in jail.

 

[Tamora]

hehe, yeah. Of course you're right.

 

[Dalamari]

I only get warez copies of old games, like Dungeon Keeper 2 and Max Payne. I would never get a warez copy of a new game, because that just isnt right. Not that getting a warez copy at all is good.

 

[SidewinderX]

"old games like Max payne"? How long have you been gaming? An old game for me is Combat, Max payne is a new game.



Just soemthing that you guys might want to keep in mind.... In the DC area, the courts have issues over 800 subpenoas for poeple downlaoding music... i'll add the article link when i ifnd it.

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

Originally posted by Tamora


Then again. Alot of music, films, games etc is not worth the money that you would spend on them since the authors didn't put a real effort to it.

I sometimes d/l software and test it out, and if it's good, perhaps I'll buy it
That's my 2 cents.

There aren't any excuses for it really. Even the ones you give.

Who are you to way that someone hasn't put effort into a game. Not only that but even if they haven't they will still have put a lot of money and time into the game. In the few hours that you take to download a game you are basically stealing months even years out of someones life. Added to that the money you will be taking from them. Its just plain wrong. You shouldn't do it. Even if in your opinion its morally right.....its still against the law.

If you want to test out a game get the demo, don't download the whole game.

If you buy a game and don't like it then that is your problem. most places you buy games from allow you to take them back anyway. If not for a refund then at least a replacement.


I for one think that downloading music doesn't harm the bands nearly as much as anyone thinks. Bands now make their money from tours and possibly promotional stuff. The contracts they have to sign when they join a record label often mean they get hardly anything from CD sales etc.

However having said that i don't download music because it is in fact illegal. As soon as it becomes a more viable option i will start going to sites which allow you to download songs at a penny a song or whatever. Until then i will simply rip songs off my CD's.

 

[adio2001]

Well if you think that it is right what you are doing don't worry about what anyone else thinks.

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

Its not about caring what others think. Its about breaking the law and hurting the people you are stealing from. I'm sure a mass murderer might not think what he is doing is bad does that mean he should carry on and not care what others think? If someone breaks the law, no matter what they think of it then they should be punished.

 

[Nostradamus]

warez is to test stuff..so i usually test a game if I'm not certain to buy it.. but some games are just too good and godly to be warezed(wierd though, but i think that way) ...HL2 for exsample..i wouldnt touch a warez copy of it in a 100 yrs.. it is eeeevil ...

did that make any sense? hope so

 

[HalfAsleep]

Originally posted by Farrowlesparrow
There aren't any excuses for it really. Even the ones you give.

If you want to test out a game get the demo, don't download the whole game.

If you buy a game and don't like it then that is your problem. most places you buy games from allow you to take them back anyway. If not for a refund then at least a replacement.

Now that is the problem. Because of the abundant piracy, most shops will not let you change your game, only after some pleading and begging will they sometimes let you change it.
I think the major reason many shops hesitate to exchange games if because of piracy.

HalfAsleep

 

[Guest]

i only download warz games if there one player only.

 

[A2597]

Have I DLed Warez? yep, definately.
two cases of it,
JK2:
E-mailed Lucas Arts for WEEKS asking if there was going to be a demo, read the forums, everything. No word. at the time I had NO clue if my PC could run the game, so, with no word from the sources I tried, I DLed the warez version. it ran OK. (Of course, the demo was suddenly "Announced" the day after the DL finished...took a week).

That was a good game, and worthy of my cash.

to counterbalance a good story, look at Unreal 2 and BF1942.

in Unreal2 I baught into the hype, and ran out to get it the day it was available. played it though and now its a dust gatherer. Stank BIG TIME

BF1942.
everyone I talked to said how awsome it was.
so, baught it, never bothered with a demo, nothing...hate it. never play it.

that 80$ + tax waisted, and there are others as well.

If no demo, then I WILL DL a ripped copy. if it is worth my money, I'll buy the version. if it isn't, I delete it. simple as that.

For me, if companies released demos in a timely manner, I'd never have to DL warez. But I work to hard for my cash to waist it on a game I'll hate.

I Fully appreciate the work that goes into these games, I do some developing meself, enough to know how much work it is. That don't mean however that I will go out and buy ever game on the shelf just because the developers worked hard on it though. I want to be happy with what I buy, as I know the developer wants the end user to have a good time with their product. Anyone that buys things without trying them is asking to be let down in a big way.

There ARE however exceptions to that statement though, such as UT2003. It had a new engion and a HUGE community, the Unreal engion itself was worth 50$, and even if the game stank (It rocks BTW) the community would be making TCs and mods the day it was released. This also applies to HL2, there are already many TCs and mods started. So again, even if the game stinks, the community can make it worth buying.

 

[chili pepper]

You can download a warez copy of HL2 but half the features will be missing just like every other warez game (missing sound, music, speech, cutscenes, etc).

I don't see why anyone would put up warez much less an ISO. The bandwidth to provide people with free games costs an arm and a leg. You'd be lucky to get more than 10k/sec download speed.

WAREZ IS FOR LOSERS.

 

[A2597]

Originally posted by HL2 Stone
i only download warz games if there one player only.

now THAT is just stupid...

Yes, some SP only games stink, like U2. But if you play it though, you owe the developoers your cash.

And what about games like The Thing, and the GTA series? you don't buy those either?

gah...

 

[SidewinderX]

Originally posted by HL2 Stone
i only download warz games if there one player only.

does this make it right?

Downloading Warez is the same as breaking into an artist's studio and stealing thier work. It's the same as breaking into an auto plant and stealing a car. It is illegal and I hope you get arressted and/or sued. Actaully, now that you all have admited it, it wouldn't be too hard to find. The board registers ips and isp would be most helpful twards the police....

 

[Ahnteis]

Originally posted by chili pepper
You can download a warez copy of HL2 but half the features will be missing just like every other warez game (missing sound, music, speech, cutscenes, etc).

I don't see why anyone would put up warez much less an ISO. The bandwidth to provide people with free games costs an arm and a leg. You'd be lucky to get more than 10k/sec download speed.

Dude, you're just making yourself sound like an idiot by posting false information. If you're going to try to make an argument, make a GOOD argument, don't just spout off stuff that's completely wrong.

 

[droper]

2 ways warez can be ethical.


1) you can't afford it and are willing to pay for it when you can.

2) the product does not offer the value for which it is being sold or any value at all in some cases eg beta testing or the program is too subpar or unusable to be considered a value.

Either case is a fair reason to not pay. beyond that you are stealing from those who deserve to be conpinsated for what they have given you. doing this will hurt the value of future products as in they will not be able to do more for money reason steming from the imbalanced return on investment. Overall piracy and theft hinders the industry from growing or progressing.

side note to guy saying bf1942 has no value: you obviously never play multiplayer or desertcombat mod.

 

[mannyfresh027]

id warez it, but for such a good game, id buy it as soon as i could get a legit copy

 

[ferd]

i would dl it, but i would buy the game for sure, and the Game of the Year edition...and everything else that looks cool..simply because when i look back and a count the hours i played HL and its mp components...well then i should conclude that HL was worth x100 time his prize...

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

Originally posted by droper
2 ways warez can be ethical.


1) you can't afford it and are willing to pay for it when you can.

2) the product does not offer the value for which it is being sold or any value at all in some cases eg beta testing or the program is too subpar or unusable to be considered a value.

Either case is a fair reason to not pay. beyond that you are stealing from those who deserve to be conpinsated for what they have given you. doing this will hurt the value of future products as in they will not be able to do more for money reason steming from the imbalanced return on investment. Overall piracy and theft hinders the industry from growing or progressing.

side note to guy saying bf1942 has no value: you obviously never play multiplayer or desertcombat mod.

Both your points are not good reasons. If you don't have the money to buy the game, why are you trying to buy games anyway. Surely if you are short on cash you should keep it for more important stuff. Or learn what i now call the lost Virtue AKA patience. People don't seem to have much of that now. Wait for the game to be released and wait till you have the money. Its not going to kill you if you wait a month or so.

If the product isn't worth the value its being sold at then don't bother buying. But don't steal it. If its overpriced then that is the problem of the producer. Besides over priced games are often a result of high development costs and the priced usually drops after a while.

If the game is a open beta then obviously the producers have given the permission out to people to freely use it.

There is no way to justify stealing something like this.

In the long term all Warez will do is let Microsoft and other like them justify themselves in putting spyware into the programs they sell and accessing peoples computers without permission.

 

[rootbin]

hmmm... interesting subject.

someone compared it to stealing a car, and i think that's completely off. stealing the actual game from the store is COMPLETELY different than getting a warez copy. if you are not going to buy the game anyways, what money is the game developer losing if you get a warez copy? that's my personal philosophy. i don't warez games anymore, because these days most games don't hold my interest for more than an hour or so. is that worth $50 though? i don't even HAVE $50.

i do know people who warez every game even though they have plenty of money to pay for it. that's just stupid.

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

They are losing the money they would have made off someone buying the game instead of stealing it. Like i said before you are stealing years from their life not just money. Im sure producers could ahve done other things with their lives but they chose to make a game for other peoples enjoyment. And it is as bad as stealing it straight from the store. Although stealing it from the store would probably be smarter because you get a real copy.

Im sorry, but if you dont have the money, that is no excuse for stealing. Sometimes you just have to get by without them. Life isnt all about having pleasure, specifically on computers. There are other more important things to think about.

 

[rootbin]

stealing bread because you cannot afford food is wrong because they are losing money that they could get from someone else. when you download a game off the internet they are losing nothing physical. the only thing they are losing is YOUR money, but if you cannot give them money anyways, they aren't losing anything.

you're implying that any game i do not buy i must be stealing from, because they are not getting my money.

 

[SirMcNugget]

Stealing software is alot like littering. Everyone knows its wrong but they figure everyone else will just keep doing it so why shouldnt I be able to, I wont make a difference. That leads to everyone continuing to download warez/litter. Ethics/morals are complicated everyone has their own system of rationalizing.

 

[Pumbert]

Originally posted by Mountain Man
The ends don't justify the means. Of course it's wrong to steal something, even if you plan on doing the right thing later.

Using that logic, go steal a car from a dealership, then go back a week later and try and pay for it and see if your ass doesn't wind up in jail.

Your analogy does not make sense. People don't go into a store, steal a game, and call it warez.

 

[Pumbert]

Originally posted by nietzsche
You never have to feel bad again for downloading pirated software Nostradamus. The game industry came up with the idea of releasing special game versions for demonstration purposes, a long time ago. You can download them for free at many game-related websites.

I hope that helps...

That does not help. The content of these free versions ie "demos" are controlled by whoever is releasing the game. The fault lies in the idea that obviously they want people to buy their game so they are going to show off the best part of the game leaving out all the other crap that may be included. I've played too many demo's where I enjoyed playing and then bought the game and found out that it was a dissapointment.

 

[SidewinderX]

Well, for us mature people, we have to understand that people who download warez are most likey 10 years old, and haven't made anyhting on their own. When you spend time to create soemthing, you'd like to get paid for it.

someone compared it to stealing a car, and i think that's completely off. stealing the actual game from the store is COMPLETELY different than getting a warez copy. if you are not going to buy the game anyways, what money is the game developer losing if you get a warez copy? that's my personal philosophy. i don't warez games anymore, because these days most games don't hold my interest for more than an hour or so. is that worth $50 though? i don't even HAVE $50.

If you wern't going to buy the car, what money is the car dealer loosing?
So do take everything you see and jsut use that as an excuse?



Also, you guys who downlaod warez because you can't afford the game, the reason the gmae is so expensive is because they have to raise the price to make a profit because soo many people downlaod warez. You are the reason that games are so expensive.

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

I'm not implying that you not buying the game is wrong. I'm saying that using something they created without paying for it is wrong. They lose out a lot from warez. Games that would be sold aren't because people download them. Ive said it before and i will say it again. By illegally obtaining games through warez you are stealing not just money but peoples time. They put time into making the product and now you are taking it off them without compensation. can you imagine going to work and at the end of the week or month the boss says. "Sorry i don't want to pay you. Ive decided that i don't in fact like you and I'm sending you away"


The comment about demos is a bit dumb as well. If you know that they are showing off the best features of a game. Then you shouldn't get duped into buying them so easily.


This whole thread is stupid. How can anyone possibly be trying to justify something that not is illegal but is also damaging to people? I think someone else has said if before. Imagine of more people had gotten half-life illegally. Valve might not have made so much money and HL could have fizzled by now. And in all likelihood we would be seeing HL2. At least in any kind of decent form.


Everyone does have their own sense of morals and rationalising. This is part of the reason we have laws against this kind of thing. The laws are they to protect game makers from people who don't see any trouble with stealing their games. Yes it is stealing OK. Just because you didn't take one off the shelf doesn't mean you did steal from them.

 

[Direwolf]

I've only truley warezed one game. Essentially there was a warez copy of Serious Sam hanging around (dumb story), and I wanted to see if I found it fun or tiring after a while. I got bored pretty fast and saved about $20.
And my take on music is this: I buy as much music as I can (and much more than I should) on my budget, and download what I can't afford at the moment. Musicians get all the money I can give them, and I get some extra enjoyment. And if they do impress me enough I always end up buying it anyway.
And BF1942 had TWO demos, that might have been a wise move.
PS-Sidewinder: Combat rocked.

 

[cyborgguineapig]

Oh man, there are obviously many immature folks on these forums and obviously people don't get the point. I guess we can agree that most/if not 75% of people using these forums are software pirates and use Warez which is very sad. Obviously by not closing this thread, it has openned up mnay excuses for PRO Warez users to give their reasons why Warez is ok. The car steeling point is absolutely correct, I'm not going to steal a $500,000 dollar lamborgini and tell the car dealers that I'm not going to buy it anyway. 10 year olds shouldn't even be playing a mature rating game like HL2 anyway so you have ***** up priorities. I suppose the word Warez spreads through elementary school like the pokemon craze. "Hey I get my games from Warez, its free!" And only ******* idiots admit on the web that they are Warez users. It boils me that developers work crazy unnimaginable hours to create something in the form of art and although to an artist its not really about the money, These people however need money so they can afford the bills and living! You would be surprised at how LITTLE some game developers make because of other factors in the world like greedy bank systems and taxes and other corporate assholes you woupdn't even begin to understand because your too young. CG/GD is the same as having any other career besides the fact that sometimes you barely make ends meet because at some times you have to freelance work and that is extremely hard. Every persons sale counts and the more a company makes, the more in will profit in return. You think you steeling doesn't make an impact? Eat your own words when you get thrown in the lock. Show respect and just buy the freaging game, don't have the money, oh poor you...Thats just too bad...SO go steal since thats teh right thing to do. :flame:

 

[ValVed RaY]

9 out of 10 doctors recommend warez, it helps grow a good immune system and grows strong bones, try the new cherry flavor.
available at eckerds.

 

[jipe]

from dictionary.com:

steal (v.) - 1. To take (the property of another) without right or permission.


It all comes down to this essential thing - Half Life 2 does not belong to you, and you are obtaining it without Valve's permission. It does not matter if you were never planning on buying the game - the age old argument of "well, they were never going to get my money anyway, so they didn't lose anything" does not stand. You are still stealing it, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. There is no grey area - you either pay for the game and obtain the right to install and play the game, or you steal the game (by whatever means - from the store, or online). This is a black and white issue, and if you cannot see that, you *are* wrong.

Don't know if the game will run? Want to try it out? Play the demo. No demo? There will probably be one, eventually. If not, tough luck. Find a friend and play it at his/her house (do *not* just ask him/her to rip it for you).

Still not convinced? There are dozens of reputable websites that offer reviews of almost every game released. Sites like gamespot, gamespy, ign, etc. are all good sources of reference. I recommend checking out gamerankings.com to make your search easier, and I personally like to use the ShackReviews (shacknews.com) for many different perspectives.

Bought the game, it sucked, and can't return it (hm, now what made stores implement strict return policies? oh right, piracy)? Sell it online, through amazon or ebay, and get back almost as much as you spent.

Finally, take a good hard look at what you're doing when you're warezing - each person who worked on the game spent years of their life putting everything they had into it so YOU could have fun playing it. They have a family, a house that needs payments, credit card bills, retirement funds, grocery bills, etc., and they rely on you, the consumer, buying their game, to continue their lifestyle.

Put yourself in the developer's shoes, and for once in your life, think of someone other than yourself. If you cannot see that warez is wrong, that you are hurting actual people, then you, my "friend", are what is wrong with the world today. I am ashamed to be a fellow human being - grow the hell up, or get off this planet.

 

[nw909]

Originally posted by Direwolf
I suppose its just an ethics issue. Few big time games ever come out that early, and so many people just use that as an excuse.

"Your not going soft on that ethics issue again, are you?"
~scientist

 

[Bad^Hat]

i still warez all my apps, but only because they're overpriced and I'm poor, eg - PSP and Flash. I don't think it's right but... eh.

 

[SpuD]

I always buy games, but not apps, i have no money to buy them and i need them.