Islamic Cultural Centre to be built near Ground Zero

[CptStern]

his point is that mecca has religious significance, ground zero does not

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

his point is that mecca has religious significance, ground zero does not

Ground Zero does.

I personally don't feel it is significant to my religion- but to say that it is not religious ground for massive amounts of Christians and Americans is ridiculous. It clearly is. It is referred to as 'hallowed ground.'

That is why it is unwise to build near it. Particularly when they have been offered nearly double over market value for the property and offered land in the same region- just a couple blocks down, in order to ease the tensions.

And if the Mosque is approved, the Church's approval needs to be expedited as well- why the double standard?



Like I said- they're free to. I absolutely oppose any 'legal' or 'state' means to block it. The choice to move absolutely should come from the developers though- it is not a good choice to place it there.

 

[Raziaar]

I don't see why people would say it's religious. Why is it religious, because some group of religious whackjobs killed other people of various faiths(including their own) or non-faiths?

It's a place where people were murdered by religious extremist murderers. Nothing more.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

I don't see why people would say it's religious. Why is it religious, because some group of religious whackjobs killed other people of various faiths(including their own) or non-faiths?

It's a place where people were murdered by religious extremist murderers. Nothing more.

Don't know, but I recognize that a huge number of Christians and Americans feel it is now. Just do a quick google search for "911 hallowed ground" or "ground zero hallowed ground" and you'll see thats an old discussion. Fact is that people feel it is though.

Just like I dont view Mecca as anything of importance other than a place where lots of people go. It's nothing to me- but it definately IS to others and I can understand that fact even if I don't agree.

Denying that huge amounts of people view ground zero as hallowed ground is like denying that there's gravity. It's just a fact. The debate about whether it really IS or not doesn't have any bearing on that fact.

 

[kineaesth]

"I don't really know if this is true, but a lot of people think that it is, so I guess it must be!"

how many times can I type 'logical fallacy' in a minute.

 

[Yuri]

Just to clarify

Ground Zero is not a religiously sensitive area. Culturally, maybe.

I understand the difference between a religious site, like Mecca, and a religiously sensitive area, like buttsex (or Ground Zero)

Read: Just to clarify, I am not on the same boat as Rajuki tenjianamin. We're not even in the same ocean!

 

[<RJMC>]

I don't see why people would say it's religious. Why is it religious, because some group of religious whackjobs killed other people of various faiths(including their own) or non-faiths?

It's a place where people were murdered by religious extremist murderers. Nothing more.

well go build a mcdonalds where there was a mass killings of jews or something like that

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

"I don't really know if this is true, but a lot of people think that it is, so I guess it must be!"

how many times can I type 'logical fallacy' in a minute.

Sigh


The point I am making is that building it where it is CLEARLY upsets people because the site holds religious meaning to them.

Where is the "logical fallacy" in that point? There is no way to determine/prove whether or not a site, whether its Mecca, the temple mount, or ground zero, is really "hallowed".

The only thing you can prove is that it holds religious significance or is considered hallowed by a group of people and that's what I'm saying.


And erestheux- it appears to me we are saying the same thing, so I don't quite understand why you're distancing from it.


RJMC makes a good point. A good parallel would be building a mosque at Auschwitz, etc. Muslims had nothing to do with that- but it is a very sensitive religious site/hallowed ground to Jews. It isn't hallowed ground to me- but it definately is to them.

 

[Krynn72]

Ive never in my life heard someone say that ground zero is a religious site before.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Ive never in my life heard someone say that ground zero is a religious site before.

You've NEVER heard anyone claim ground zero is hallowed ground? Even just a quick google on the subject reveals a lot of people feel that way.

I think that is a bit silly considering there are strip clubs and fast food joints everywhere there, but my point isn't 'defending it as being hallowed ground' it's that there is a ton of people that feel that way.

If a large group of people did not think it is, why would the Imam make statements disputing that fact? You don't dispute something that nobody believes- that'd be a waste of time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkht9E8KY4U

 

[Krynn72]

Calling something hallowed ground doesn't means its got anything to do with religion. Especially since most Americans feel that way, including Christians, Catholics, Jews, Muslims, Atheists, etc. So nobody could possibly claim its religious, because its something considered hallowed by everybody, religion being entirely irrelevant. It just means its a place of great importance to Americans.

And I still stand by my point of view where just because a lot of idiots believe something, doesn't mean we should give a shit about their misinformed point of view.

 

[Sparta]

WHY ARE THEIR PLANS TO REBUILD BEING STALLED? DOUBLE STANDARD

This isn't a double-standard at all. The Port Authority and the Greek Orthodox Bishop who ran the Church broke down negotiations last year (after the Port Authority had offered originally offered 20 million and then upped it's offer to 40 million to help rebuild the church) when the church kept demanding more and more concessions.

This is really a non-issue. One building is a community centre with a mosque in it, at a place that was once an old coat factory. The other is rebuilding a church that was crushed by one of the towers. Given all the hickups with rebuilding anything at Ground Zero, it's not really a surprise that the church is having trouble being rebuilt, but it's not a double-standard.

 

[Vegeta897]

Hey guys lookit a funny video relevant to this

http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1941211

 

[<RJMC>]

I am not saying is religious,but have a importance similiar to it,still the "mosque" is made on top of it and from what I know is not even facing it so that dont matter

 

[Dynasty]

Hasnt America moved on yet and realised they need to grow up?

I seriously dont see what the big deal is. Just because some extremists did what they did, doesnt mean you condemn the ENTIRE muslim world. They're some of the nicest people you will ever meet.

Just because they believe in god in a different way and have a different skin colour doesnt give them less right to be in your country. You have to be flexible.

 

[CptStern]

Ground Zero does.

I personally don't feel it is significant to my religion- but to say that it is not religious ground for massive amounts of Christians and Americans is ridiculous. It clearly is. It is referred to as 'hallowed ground.'

no religious significance whatsoever. it doesnt matter if people who follow the faith attach sentiment/religious significance to a particular building it has to come from the religious organization itself. hell if what you say were true ever bedroom in america would have religious significance judging by how many people say "oh jesus" and "oh lord, yes, jebus I'M CUUUUMMMIIIIINNNGGG"

That is why it is unwise to build near it.

you know as well as I do why it's unwise: because the bigots will use this as an excuse to be bigoted. there is absolutely no rational reason why it's unwise otherwise; the mosque/cultural centre attendees had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11

 

[Yuri]

you know as well as I do why it's unwise: because the bigots will use this as an excuse to be bigoted. there is absolutely no rational reason why it's unwise otherwise; the mosque/cultural centre attendees had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11

Is this you agreeing that it is unwise, or was that unintentional?

 

[CptStern]

I'm not one to coddle the bigots. they should supersize the mosque with plenty of minarets and put a big statue of osama in front flipping the bird. just for shits and giggles

 

[MuToiD_MaN]

WE REQUIRE MORE MINARETS.

There's gotta be a way they can build there without causing all this hubbub...

 

[kathaksung]

With the fake issue "Mosque on Ground Zero", they successfully skipped another 911 aniversary which people usually demand the truth. Do you find how they make "Mosque in Ground Zero" a noisy market of discussion and the "Burning the Kolan" a hot issue as well? The media rarely touch the topic of 911 truth even though it is a much more important issue.

 

[kathaksung]

The mosque was supported by Zionist group. It is the old tactic - to monitor the muslim as close as they can - even in thier temple. You could imagine those Imam are undercover agents or informants. Don't forget those hijackers of 911, they were in government payroll too. This is a spy country.
Fox News co-owner funded ‘Ground Zero mosque’

The second largest shareholder in News Corp . -- the parent company of Fox News -- has donated hundreds of thousands of dollars to causes linked to the imam planning to build a Muslim community center and mosque near Ground Zero in Manhattan, says a report from Yahoo!News.





Last week, Daily Show host Jon Stewart lambasted Fox panelist Eric Bolling's attempt to link the Cordoba Initiative to Hamas and Iran. Stewart used News Corp.'s connections to Prince Al-Waleed, and the prince's connections to the Carlyle Group and Osama bin Laden to make a tongue-in-cheek argument that Fox News may be a "terrorist command center."

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/08/fox-shareholder-funded-mosque-imam/

 

[Ennui]

The mosque was supported by Zionist group. It is the old tactic - to monitor the muslim as close as they can - even in thier temple. You could imagine those Imam are undercover agents or informants. Don't forget those hijackers of 911, they were in government payroll too. This is a spy country.
Fox News co-owner funded ‘Ground Zero mosque’

this is some heavy shit man. Zionist Muslim Terrorist Republican conspiracy!

 

[kathaksung]

Some of the so said hijackers of 911 were agents to monitor Islamic group.

Stanley Hilton Interview
Interview of Stanley Hilton, attorney for 9/11 taxpayers' lawsuit
Alex Jones Radio Show http://www.prisonplanet.com http://www.infowars.com
September 10, 2004 Transcription by "Rat Cat"

AJ: He is back with us. He is former Bob Dole's chief of staff, very successful counselor, lawyer. He represents hundreds of the victims families of 9/11. He is suing Bush for involvement in 9/11. Now a major Zogby poll out - half of New Yorkers think the government was involved in 9/11.

SH: My office was broken into about 6 months ago. The file cabinets - it was obvious they had been rifled through. Files were stolen. Files dealing with this particular case and particularly with the documents I had regarding the fact that the - some of these hijackers, at least some of them were on the payroll of the U.S. government as undercover FBI, CIA, double agents. They are spying on Arab groups in the U.S. And, in effect, all this lead up to the effect that al Qaeda is a creation of the George Bush administration, basically. That's the entity that he called al Qaeda.is directly linked to George Bush.

http://www.911review.org/Wiki/StanleyHiltonInterview.shtml

 

[Cancer]

With the fake issue "Mosque on Ground Zero", they successfully skipped another 911 aniversary which people usually demand the truth. Do you find how they make "Mosque in Ground Zero" a noisy market of discussion and the "Burning the Kolan" a hot issue as well? The media rarely touch the topic of 911 truth even though it is a much more important issue.

The problem is that it has been 9 years now, people are moving on and forgetting. So the people that actually want to the truth are shrinking into a small minority.

 

[VirusType2]

. The file cabinets - it was obvious they had been rifled through. Files were stolen. Files dealing with this particular case and particularly with the documents I had regarding the fact that the - some of these hijackers, at least some of them were on the payroll of the U.S. government as undercover FBI, CIA, double agents. They are spying on Arab groups in the U.S.

"I had proof that the US paid the hijackers, but my dog ate it."

(like money would be of any use to dead people).

Do you even think, or is it just hallucinations and verbal diarrhea?

So the people that actually want to the truth are shrinking into a small minority.

Right.. everyone else wants the lie.

 

[Krynn72]

Do you even think, or is it just hallucinations and verbal diarrhea?

Man, have you been living under a rock for the last five years? Kathaksung is HL2.net's most unabashed crazy person. Hes the conspiracy theorist that Danimal can only ever dream of becoming.

 

[Warped]

Man, have you been living under a rock for the last five years? Kathaksung is HL2.net's most unabashed crazy person. Hes the conspiracy theorist that Danimal can only ever dream of becoming.

thank you so much for the new sig!!

 

[SpotEnemyBoats]

One thing though, wouldn't building it cause only more decention? It's only going to divide the country further, this country is divided on enough things about party issues and job losses than a silly thing like this. It's stupid.

 

[CptStern]

I thought religion was evil? If that's the case, wouldn't building it cause only more decention? It's only going to divide the country further, this country is divided on enough things about party issues and job losses than a silly thing like this. It's stupid.

who cares if a bunch of bigots have misplaced rage over an issue they dont even understand?

 

[MuToiD_MaN]

It's probably fun to sit and watch from a different country huh

 

[CptStern]

yes america provides endless amusement for us foreigners

 

[Krynn72]

It's probably fun to sit and watch from a different country huh

Says the guy who isn't even from REAL AMERICA.

 

[SpotEnemyBoats]

who cares if a bunch of bigots have misplaced rage over an issue they dont even understand?

What do you mean "don't understand"? It's been one of the hotest topics here one of the most culturally diverse cities in the world and annoying too.

 

[comradesean]

What do you mean "don't understand"? It's been one of the hotest topics here in NY, one of the most culturally diverse cities in the world. What is there to understand? Hurt feelings? There is more important issues anyway. Like the spiraling economy.

Have you heard some of the shit they've been saying? Almost every complaint that they've had has either been exaggerated or made up.

I think that's the definition of "don't understand".

Not even mentioning the fact that you're so eager to jump on this bandwagon under the guise of, "There are more important things to worry about so **** them."

 

[CptStern]

What do you mean "don't understand"? It's been one of the hotest topics here in NY, one of the most culturally diverse cities in the world. What is there to understand? Hurt feelings? There is more important issues anyway. Like the spiraling economy.

what do I mean about the fact that they dont understand the issue? they dont; they have a right to do whatever the hell they want with a building they own that's nowhere near ground zero. in fact no one seemed to have a problem with the other mosque near ground zero just this one. in fact no one had a problem with a mosque IN one of the towers before 9/11. so yes those that oppose it dont know what the **** they're talking about. it's not even a goddam mosque but a cultural awareness centre that includes a mosque; it's meant to foster understanding between muslims and non muslims but all the bigots see is this

 

[SpotEnemyBoats]

Oh god, that is ****ing awesome stern.

 

[CptStern]

I think krynn originally posted it

 

[SpotEnemyBoats]

Have you heard some of the shit they've been saying? Almost every complaint that they've had has either been exaggerated or made up.

I think that's the definition of "don't understand".

Not even mentioning the fact that you're so eager to jump on this bandwagon under the guise of, "There are more important things to worry about so **** them."

I haven't even said one thing about me being either for or against, I honestly don't give two shits. It's on the news everyday, people like O'Rielly won't even shut up about it nor others. :/

 

[Xevrex]

It's sad that the country of compromise cannot even bring itself to compromise in this day and age. Not real compromise that fixes the issue and satisfies everyone. Things like this (and I mean that in a very broad sense) started the Civil War.

 

[Krynn72]

I haven't even said one thing about me being either for or against, I honestly don't give two shits. It's on the news everyday, people like O'Rielly won't even shut up about it nor others. :/

First off, stop watching O'Rielly. Secondly, just because you dont give a shit either way doesn't mean everyone should just shut the hell up about it. If people are imposing their will on others illegally, nobody should shut the hell up about it just because others don't want to hear it.