Israel is accusing Swedish government of Antisemitism.

[Gargantou]

Sadly, I do not have any links since all I've read has been in newspaper form, but to sum it up.

Recently one of Swedens biggest newspapers published an article about how there have been several instances of Palestinians killed by Israelis in the recent war, having been emptied of their organs, family members claim they believe these organs might have been stolen by IDF soldiers with connections to the black organ-markets(Which is quite big in Israel FYI), now, after the newspaper called Aftonbladet published this article, Israel went really mad, and demanded our government strongly condemn the article and the magazine.

Our governments response was that in Sweden we have full freedom of the press, and it's not our right to tell a paper what they should and shouldn't print.

This led to Lieberman, the Israeli foreign minister, calling the Swedish government for antisemitist, and even went as far as to say "The Swedish government is acting like they did during World War 2, and not intervening against the holocaust."

Now, am I the only one that finds it friggin' hilarious that the moment our government doesn't do as they tell it to, they start calling us antisemitist?

I think it's a real shame what's happening, because of the fact Israel immediately pulls up the "Get-out-of-jail-for-free"card(AKA the holocaust), I believe this will only lead to strengthening antisemitism, because people feel like Israell thinks just because they suffered during the holocaust, they should not be held under scrutiny by the press etc.

Another funny thing is, in Israel, the debate over this is not related to whether or not the organ theft rumours are true, but rather as to whether or not freedom of speech should be okay.

 

[Kadayi]

Pulling out the holocaust card again Israel? No surprise.

 

[Solaris]

Pulling out the holocaust card again Israel? No surprise.

I'd be careful with saying the word 'again' like that.

Many, many Israeli people suffered terribly under the holocaust. That huge grievance is still a large and legitimate part of the national conciousness.

They are right to be angry at Sweden for its neutrality, but not right to ask it to censor its press.

 

[Gargantou]

I'd be careful with saying the word 'again' like that.

Many, many Israeli people suffered terribly under the holocaust. That huge grievance is still a large and legitimate part of the national conciousness.

They are right to be angry at Sweden for its neutrality, but not right to ask it to censor its press.

Ironically, Sweden took in more jewish refugees during WW2 than many other European nations.

 

[leib10]

Yeah, like Sweden could've stopped the holocaust.

 

[<RJMC>]

I'd be careful with saying the word 'again' like that.

Many, many Israeli people suffered terribly under the holocaust. That huge grievance is still a large and legitimate part of the national conciousness.

They are right to be angry at Sweden for its neutrality, but not right to ask it to censor its press.

pffft that was the mossad that created the holocaust as a false flag operation,its allways the mossad:dozey::dozey::dozey::dozey:


btw I think is more to the fact of saying israeli troops killing palestinians instead of the organ theft,instead of israel defending themself from palesitinians

 

[Kadayi]

I'd be careful with saying the word 'again' like that.

Many, many Israeli people suffered terribly under the holocaust.

Actually I'm pretty sure very few Israeli people suffered under the holocaust. A lot of European Jews did, as well as a **** tonne of other minorities on top of the 20 million Russians who died resisting the Nazis (The Russians lost more people than everyone else combined fact fans), but very few actual Israelis suffered. I think its important get the facts right there in future Solaris.

As for the use of 'again' can you please point me in the direction of the argument where when things didn't go Israels way politically, or when they've been criticised haven't cited the Holocaust or anti-Semitism in some manner. Either to justify their complete disregard for international law or attempt to belittle their critics?

Fact of the matter is, if the foreign secretary for the UK labelled Israel as racists the howls for his resignation would be endless. Yet here you have a situation where the politically unacceptable is permitted.

Perhaps next time a couple of your 'freedom fighters' pop across the border to shoot up some Squadies (made your day I suspect that one), we'll carpet bomb Cork into the stone age in retaliation, just so you appreciate what it's like to be a Palestinian, under Israeli dominion. :dozey:

 

[Gargantou]

Kadayi, you seem knowledgeable on the subject, didn't Stalin kill more of his own people within the same time period, than the Germans killed jews?

 

[Kadayi]

Kadayi, you seem knowledgeable on the subject, didn't Stalin kill more of his own people within the same time period, than the Germans killed jews?

Stalin killed a lot of Russians prior to WW2 during the purges, esp those from the middle classes which included a lot of military officers. More than anything else he severely weakened the Russian Military machine as a result and subsequently make them less effective when fighting the Germans during WW2. It was really as much down to the harshness of the environments and the Germans lack of adequate equipment than to the Russians military genius that the Eastern front became the Germans undoing. Stalins approach to victory was to just drown the Germans through sheer force of numbers. Certainly it worked, but the human cost in terms of casualties was horrific.

I found this that has a summary for you, of the madness that was Stalins purges:-

http://www.gendercide.org/case_stalin.html

 

[nurizeko]

Israell thinks just because they suffered during the holocaust, they should not be held under scrutiny by the press etc.

Israel didn't exist during the second world war so technically they've never suffered as a political nation state from the holocaust, that was the preserve of Jewish citizens of existential nation states.

Israel's history though is marked decidedly by its treatment of Arabs within and near its own borders sooo....you know, Israel really shouldn't be so quick to judge and point fingures and less it wants its own dirty laundry scrutinized.

 

[Ravioli]

Yeah, like Sweden could've stopped the holocaust.

This made me lol

also:
Do Israel really think that we will just bend over and let them **** us in the ass with the "we are jews, we suffered more than you, therefore we can tell you what to do or else we will call you anti-semitists" bullshit? Unlike they, we actually believe in freedom of speech.

This only makes Israel look bad, not the other way around.

 

[Solaris]

Actually I'm pretty sure very few Israeli people suffered under the holocaust. A lot of European Jews did, as well as a **** tonne of other minorities on top of the 20 million Russians who died resisting the Nazis (The Russians lost more people than everyone else combined fact fans), but very few actual Israelis suffered. I think its important get the facts right there in future Solaris.

The state of Isreal didn't exist then, when it did many holocaust survivors and people who lost relatives moved there and became Isrealis. But it's a trivial point.

 

[Kadayi]

This only makes Israel look bad, not the other way around.

Indeed, and I think the joke is wearing increasing thin.

The state of Isreal didn't exist then, when it did many holocaust survivors and people who lost relatives moved there and became Isrealis. But it's a trivial point.

And a bunch load didn't, and a bunch load who were never in any way shape or form in danger from the Nazis also moved there as well. History is not a trivial point. In future get it right.

 

[Solaris]

Indeed, and I think the joke is wearing increasing thin.



And a bunch load didn't, and a bunch load who were never in any way shape or form in danger from the Nazis also moved there as well. History is not a trivial point. In future get it right.

I am right. Isrealis suffered under the holocaust. They may not have been Isrealis when they suffered, as Isreal didn't exist then, but they are isrealis and they did suffer.

 

[Ravioli]

I am right. Isrealis suffered under the holocaust. They may not have been Isrealis when they suffered, as Isreal didn't exist then, but they are isrealis and they did suffer.

Actually, they are the children and grandchildren of those who suffered in the holocaust. They themselves have never been in it, except for the incredibly small minority of the old people. So im having a hard time sympathizing with a population that claims to have suffered in a holocaust when in fact they weren't even alive when it happened.

 

[Kadayi]

I am right. Isrealis suffered under the holocaust. They may not have been Isrealis when they suffered, as Isreal didn't exist then, but they are isrealis and they did suffer.

Jesus wept, you can't even spell Israeli properly let alone formulate an argument. So by that very rationale its fair to say that as some Jews from the Holocaust returned to Germany that Germans suffered under the Holocaust Yes? Or Americans? Or the French? Or the English?

See you can say that the Jews suffered during the Holocaust, but its not remotely correct (as pointed out by others as well) that Israel as a nation (because that what Israel is, a nation..not a race) suffered under the holocaust.

 

[Solaris]

Actually, they are the children and grandchildren of those who suffered in the holocaust. They themselves have never been in it, except for the incredibly small minority of the old people. So im having a hard time sympathizing with a population that claims to have suffered in a holocaust when in fact they weren't even alive when it happened.

Stop for a minute and imagine how you'd feel knowing your parents/grandparents went through something like that.

 

[jverne]

considering how Israel handles palestine, their inherently evil religion and one of the biggest war industries i wouldn't call them so innocent.
i'm more than convinced if israel switched places with germany they'd probably did something similar.
i'm not apologizing the holocaust, but the Israelis need to know when to shut up.

 

[VirusType2]

I think an article relating to the topic is in order

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3765445,00.html

The article, published Monday in the Swedish tabloid Aftonbladet, implied without evidence that there was a link between charges of organ theft from Palestinians and the recent arrest in the United States of an American Jew suspected of illicit organ trafficking.

Later, I'd like to read the article that started this mess.

Another part of the story:

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3764086,00.html

Leading Swedish daily Aftonbladet claimed Tuesday that IDF soldiers killed Palestinians in order to trade in their organs, adding that this suspicion may lead to an international war crimes investigation against Israel.

So basically, some newspaper in Sweden claimed something without proof and Israel thinks the government should step in. In a democracy with free speech, it's not the job of government to regulate newspaper usually, unless it is regarding something top secret. Frankly, Israel is just bringing worldwide attention to it.

 

[leib10]

The problem with a lot of Jews is that any criticism directed at them is immediately interpreted as antisemitism rather than a legitimate complaint. Then they delve into the thousands of years of the persecution of Jews by one group of people or another, as if this fact can grant them immunity from criticism or attack.

 

[Solaris]

The problem with a lot of Jews is that any criticism directed at them is immediately interpreted as antisemitism rather than a legitimate complaint. Then they delve into the thousands of years of the persecution of Jews by one group of people or another, as if this fact can grant them immunity from criticism or attack.

I think your being a bit anti-semitic there tbh

 

[The Monkey]

Yeah, this is turning into a real shitstorm. Israel's reaction sort of reminds me of many arab states' reaction to the Muhammad cartoons. Ironic, when you think about it.

 

[leib10]

I think your being a bit anti-semitic there tbh

Nope, just calling it as it is.

 

[Sulkdodds]

Here is an example of antisemitism:

Jews are hypocrites because they refuse to eat pigs but they as animals are just as dirty.

Here is an example of not-antisemitism:

The nation of Israel has a political culture which is very often repugnant.

However, diligent forumites may wish to avoid starting any sentences whatsoever with word-sequences like "The problem with the Jews is..."

JUST SAYIN

 

[Ravioli]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0qICvnkQmM

 

[<RJMC>]

the fact is that since the jews have been the favorites persecuted people of tons of civilizations during many ages them is not weird a critique may be considered as anti-semitism

like if you say to a black person "all your kind is like animals" or something like that

 

[Combined]

So basically, some newspaper in Sweden claimed something without proof and Israel thinks the government should step in. In a democracy with free speech, it's not the job of government to regulate newspaper usually, unless it is regarding something top secret. Frankly, Israel is just bringing worldwide attention to it.

VirusType. I've now actually read the article from Aftonbladet which started the whole conflict. It doesn't in any way "claim something without proof".
The article reported on some Palestinian individuals accusing the Israeli army of stealing body parts from Palestinian victims.
Just wanted to set things straight.

Another thing worth mentioning is that, according to the Israeli embassy in Sweden, Swedish journalists in Israel are now being opposed...

Very interesting thread. Since anti-semitism without doubt is a big widespread problem, it's such a shame seeing Israeli leaders using it as an argument in matters where it's totally irrelevant. Especially in a case like this where they are telling the Swedish governement to violate the constitution and freedom of the press.