ISRAELIS TO THE RESCUE!! YAY!!

[Warped]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snH738Umhqc&feature=topvideos

So after fuking over the Palestinians and continually shitting over their rights the Isreali's basically are helping out a nation over 3,000 miles away. to me this is the worst sort of hypocrisy I've seen in a long time.

your thoughts??

 

[Xevrex]

So after fuking over the Palestinians

Haha "****ing over the Palestinians" haha it was their land first, the Dead Sea Scrolls mentioned that they were God's chosen people, I honestly don't see how people think that the Palestinians' anger was justified. I mean, I understand that they're angry that Jews won't "accept other truths other than their own" and convert to Islam, but after being subjugated so many times (even by the US after WWII) I don't see how anyone can get angry at the Israelis for trying to settle in the homeland they've had since Abraham migrated from Sumer to Canaan.

 

[jverne]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snH738Umhqc&feature=topvideos

So after fuking over the Palestinians and continually shitting over their rights the Isreali's basically are helping out a nation over 3,000 miles away. to me this is the worst sort of hypocrisy I've seen in a long time.

your thoughts??

Dude, i hope your flame-suit is made of Kevlar!

 

[Absinthe]

So after fuking over the Palestinians and continually shitting over their rights the Isreali's basically are helping out a nation over 3,000 miles away. to me this is the worst sort of hypocrisy I've seen in a long time.

your thoughts??

Regardless of their current conflict, I don't see how their aid in Haiti can be considered the worst kind of anything.

Using this as an opportunity to snipe at Israel is pretty cheap tbh.

 

[jverne]

**** i forgot, most here are anti-israel. My bad, please continue.

 

[BabyHeadCrab]

Haha "****ing over the Palestinians" haha it was their land first, the Dead Sea Scrolls mentioned that they were God's chosen people, I honestly don't see how people think that the Palestinians' anger was justified. I mean, I understand that they're angry that Jews won't "accept other truths other than their own" and convert to Islam, but after being subjugated so many times (even by the US after WWII) I don't see how anyone can get angry at the Israelis for trying to settle in the homeland they've had since Abraham migrated from Sumer to Canaan.

You're reasoning what is the most horrifying and obvious example of modern colonialism with the fact that "biblical history" tells us so? So, what, we're still supposed to settle conflicts with fire and brimstone and the entirety of an area completely ungovernable on a modern map belongs to "Jews"? You do know that A) Not all Israelis are Jews B) before the state of Israel, many Jews and arab Palestinians lived happily side by side?

At least know what you're talking about. Sure, the OP's post isn't exactly Chomsky quality but you put him to shame with this horse shit.

 

[Solaris]

Warped your a moron, helping poor people anywhere is never hippocratic, it's the decent human thing to do.

 

[Sulkdodds]

Does seem rather bizarre, but bit of a low blow.

Haha "****ing over the Palestinians" haha it was their land first, the Dead Sea Scrolls mentioned that they were God's chosen people, I honestly don't see how people think that the Palestinians' anger was justified.

You're bonkers, you know that? Sure, 2000-year old documents make it perfectly reasonable to violently displace living human communities.

I would say I don't want to turn this into a debate about Israel and Palestine, but that appears to be the actual purpose of the thread, so let's either have it out or just have it closed.

 

[jet_porkins]

Well, here's where I blow a gasket. If Israel didn't help in this crisis you'd bash them as being "typical Israelis." But now that they are helping--and even moreso than most other nations providing aid--they're being hypocritical. This earthquake is nothing political; it's no land dispute. It's a humanitarian effort which lends itself to a global call to send as much support as you can. All Israel is doing is answering that call.

But I forget myself. Israelis have no soul, and are the scum of the planet.

 

[xdrive]

Haha "****ing over the Palestinians" haha it was their land first, the Dead Sea Scrolls mentioned that they were God's chosen people, I honestly don't see how people think that the Palestinians' anger was justified. I mean, I understand that they're angry that Jews won't "accept other truths other than their own" and convert to Islam, but after being subjugated so many times (even by the US after WWII) I don't see how anyone can get angry at the Israelis for trying to settle in the homeland they've had since Abraham migrated from Sumer to Canaan.

Exactly. I don't know why everyone is saying it's the Palestinians land when it is not. They took it from the jews (calling them jews because i don't know what they were called back then.) hundreds of years ago in an invasion now the jews have taken it back.

 

[BabyHeadCrab]

"ISRAEL DID SOMETHING GOOD HAHA" Is not a good way to start a topic. Congratulations, OP. Can we just leave it to Stern to be the armchair liberal whistle blower?

Exactly. I don't know why everyone is saying it's the Palestinians land when it is not. They took it from the jews hundreds of years ago in an invasion now the jews have taken it back.

Haha "****ing over the Palestinians" haha it was their land first, the Dead Sea Scrolls mentioned that they were God's chosen people, I honestly don't see how people think that the Palestinians' anger was justified. I mean, I understand that they're angry that Jews won't "accept other truths other than their own" and convert to Islam, but after being subjugated so many times (even by the US after WWII) I don't see how anyone can get angry at the Israelis for trying to settle in the homeland they've had since Abraham migrated from Sumer to Canaan.

Read an up to date history book.

pro tip: The Bible also said the Jews must find a new way of life after the destruction of the Temple in the holy land--that's what many of us did--Abraham was not entitled to the land of Palestine even in known biblical scholarship and theology.The bible is thousands of years old, doesn't count. If we read the old testament as a model for who deserves land, you would probably be dead. Stay in school.

I'm not anti-Israel or Israelis, I'm friends with many of them here on campus. I'm just not ignorant enough to ignore blatant history as it's occurred in my own life time--witnessed by my own eyes. I'm Jewish and I personally don't feel connected to Israel at all. Even many Orthodox/Conservative Jews feel this way, as resurrecting the temple before the return is nearly blasphemy to them (as was bringing back Hebrew).

If you think the rise of Israel has anything to due with genuine entitlement as given from the Hebrew God, you better actually meet a few Jews, Israelis and Palestinians. Please actually know what you're talking about before you not only make a zealtrous and bigoted comment, but a completely uninformed and empirically false diatribe on "hot button issues".

 

[Sulkdodds]

Yeah, it's pretty stupid. I agree with statements like porkins' "hur you wouldn't be happy either way" about once in a million years, but this time it seems pretty accurate. It is weird that the Israeli government would display such humanitarian concern for faraway peoples and so little for their most immediate neighbours, but that's a good hook for a sustained argument against its conduct, not a brilliant thread-starter on its own.

Exactly. I don't know why everyone is saying it's the Palestinians land when it is not. They took it from the jews (calling them jews because i don't know what they were called back then.) hundreds of years ago in an invasion now the jews have taken it back.

Wait, which invasion is this? The invasion where the Arab Empire took over the area and the Jewish population was large and relatively well-treated as 'People of the Book', or the invasion of the Crusaders against whom many Jews fought in company with Muslims and after which the Jewish population dwindled?

Honestly now, who lived where in the past is the most ridiculous foundation to build any kind of justification on. That would warrant various native peoples rounding up European-descended Americans and forcing them out of the country. The only important political reality is that both peoples and both cultures live there now. Asserting one's right of superiority over the other is unethical and pointless, and therefore insane.

 

[jverne]

Honestly now, who lived where in the past is the most ridiculous foundation to build any kind of justification on. That would warrant various native peoples rounding up European-descended Americans and forcing them out of the country. The only important political reality is that both peoples and both cultures live there now. Asserting one's right of superiority over the other is unethical and pointless, and therefore insane.

Why does that smell of contradiction?

 

[Sulkdodds]

I don't know, jverne. Why does it smell of contradiction?

EDIT: Oh, sorry, I thought you were telling a funny joke.

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

Hundreds of years ago, Europeans did not live in Australia.
XDRIVE

COME ON
I don't even know what Xeverex's angle is.


I am somewhat disgruntled with people :arms:

 

[BabyHeadCrab]

Oh because he's some "Muslim sympathizer" or something? Grow up. Read up. What you're saying makes no sense and is rooted in utter brainwash rubbish. You're using non-fact and repeating yourself with one-liners because you've been proven wrong by multiple posters.

The. Old. Testament. Does. Not. Promise. Land. To. The. Jews/Israelites.

Israel has done bad things, mmkay? There's no actual debate about it. Palestine has too, particularly under Hamas. Does that warrant killing thousands in Gaza whenever a PM gets itchy over a few territories in the West Bank or a failed missile launch into south Israel? No, but that's how history tends to play itself out. Both sides act irrational but Israel is too valuable a partner for us to pull our thumbs out of their ass and draw up real peace ultimatums.

There's no contradiction, you're just being an idiot. Actually read Sulk and I's prior posts.

 

[unozero]

What a ****ing stupid thread typical libshit I bet Warped wear one of those Scarfs that Arafat used to wear.
I'm no fan of the State of Israel but attacking them for helping other people is just plain silly.

 

[Xevrex]

pro tip: The Bible also said the Jews must find a new way of life after the destruction of the Temple in the holy land--that's what many of us did--Abraham was not entitled to the land of Palestine even in known biblical scholarship and theology.The bible is thousands of years old, doesn't count. If we read the old testament as a model for who deserves land, you would probably be dead. Stay in school.

I'm not anti-Israel or Israelis, I'm friends with many of them here on campus. I'm just not ignorant enough to ignore blatant history as it's occurred in my own life time--witnessed by my own eyes. I'm Jewish and I personally don't feel connected to Israel at all. Even many Orthodox/Conservative Jews feel this way, as resurrecting the temple before the return is nearly blasphemy to them (as was bringing back Hebrew).

Thank you for the information, I was not previously aware of it.

However, my point wasn't really arguing their homeland; it was an angry response to accusing the Israelis of "****ing over the Palestinians", thinking that it was referring to the Israelis stealing the land from the native Arabs and causing the Arab rebellion, etc etc. Regarding that, because England itself looked to Palestine for a place to send the surviving Jews of the Holocaust and the UN partitioned Palestine for the Jews, the Israelis never "****ed over" anyone to begin with -- the English and the UN are the ones who created the state that antagonised the Palestinian Arabs so much.

 

[Sulkdodds]

That's kind of a misleading and incomplete account account. It certainly wasn't a result of the Holocaust - the declaration that a permanent home for Jews should be established in the 'land of israel' was made by the British during WW1. And the people who would become Israelis weren't just shunted from place to place by the colonial powers. Zionist militias fought with the British during their invasion of Ottoman-occupied Palestine, while progressive waves of Jewish immigration into the area were driven by primarily non-governmental or religious initiatives, increased with the rise of Nazi Germany. Arab Palestinians reacted with riots, strikes and revolt, to which the British reacted in turn with collective punishment. That was one part of their strategy for dealing with the problem; the other part was to cap Jewish immigration. Radical Jewish elements responded to this with terrorism. But even the leftists and centrists who assisted in catching some of the culprits themselves felt compelled to organise massive illegal immigrations regardless of the cap.

Thousands of Jewish 'boat people', many of them Holocaust survivors, tried to get to Israel from Europe. The British put them in prison camps (this policy is dramatised in the Alanis Morisette song 'Ironic'). Terror campaigns increased, identifiable as a war between the British and the proto-Israelis, in which the British were effectively forced out of Palestine. After that, the UN stepped in to designate a partition plan, which most Jews agreed with, but most Arabs did not. Riots and conflict developed into a civil war in which the Jewish provisional government declared itself independent. The new nation of Israel was attacked by various Arab countries, and in that war Israel took over various previously-Palestinian lands and forced out (by UN estimates) about 80% of their populations. This explusion was pretty violent. It's probably what people tend to refer to when they talk of Isreal "****ing over the Palestinians".

 

[Xevrex]

That's kind of a misleading and incomplete account account. It certainly wasn't a result of the Holocaust - the declaration that a permanent home for Jews should be established in the 'land of israel' was made by the British during WW1. And the people who would become Israelis weren't just shunted from place to place by the colonial powers. Zionist militias fought with the British during their invasion of Ottoman-occupied Palestine, while progressive waves of Jewish immigration into the area were driven by primarily non-governmental or religious initiatives, increased with the rise of Nazi Germany. Arab Palestinians reacted with riots, strikes and revolt, to which the British reacted in turn with collective punishment. That was one part of their strategy for dealing with the problem; the other part was to cap Jewish immigration. Radical Jewish elements responded to this with terrorism. But even the leftists and centrists who assisted in catching some of the culprits themselves felt compelled to organise massive illegal immigrations regardless of the cap.

Thousands of Jewish 'boat people', many of them Holocaust survivors, tried to get to Israel from Europe. The British put them in prison camps (this policy is dramatised in the Alanis Morisette song 'Ironic'). Terror campaigns increased, identifiable as a war between the British and the proto-Israelis, in which the British were effectively forced out of Palestine. After that, the UN stepped in to designate a partition plan, which most Jews agreed with, but most Arabs did not. Riots and conflict developed into a civil war in which the Jewish provisional government declared itself independent. The new nation of Israel was attacked by various Arab countries, and in that war Israel took over various previously-Palestinian lands and forced out (by UN estimates) about 80% of their populations. This explusion was pretty violent. It's probably what people tend to refer to when they talk of Isreal "****ing over the Palestinians".

Indeed, that would definitely make more sense than just the partition itself being the issue. Thanks for clearing that up.

Concerning Haiti, I don't really think that wanting to support a country that just experienced a devastating natural disaster warrants cries of "Hypocrisy!" America deals with many problems of its own, yet we still support Haiti in reconciliation. There's no real reason to attack a sympathetic decision like that.

 

[Warped]

What a ****ing stupid thread typical libshit I bet Warped wear one of those Scarfs that Arafat used to wear.
I'm no fan of the State of Israel but attacking them for helping other people is just plain silly.

I'm not attacking them for helping people. I'm attacking them for hurting someone while helping someone else. also you could compare Haiti and Palestine as in the same boat these days. both are places that are devastated and controlled by shitty governments. Israel has taken advantage of a poor country but has helped another.

 

[Solaris]

I'm not attacking them for helping people. I'm attacking them for hurting someone while helping someone else. also you could compare Haiti and Palestine as in the same boat these days. both are places that are devastated and controlled by shitty governments. Israel has taken advantage of a poor country but has helped another.

No, you were attacking them for helping Hati.

If you want a 'Isreal is shit' thread, make one, trying to start one with an OP like this though is just going to end in nonsense (like this).

 

[Shyam]

Wait Israel is helping out the Haitians and the OP is actually complaining about it ? As far as I am concerned Israel is guilty of using disproportionate force in retaliation and bulldozing Palestinian settlements in West Bank. And for op' information a lot of Israelis do wish to have a peaceful resolution to the conflict.

 

[BabyHeadCrab]

Sorry I've been a of a vehement prick here. I just get frustrated and feel as if I have to explain to people that merely because I identify as being ethnically Jewish that I don't align myself with Israel.

Also hate explaining that I believe it's stupid to be simply "pro-Israel" or "pro-Palestine." It's a complex issue with it's history rooted long before the formation of the state of Israel, I didn't mean to suppose you didn't know that history, Xev--my role here on campus just involves a lot of having to convince people out of unfair paradigms and binary thinking about the region and the affiliated religious/ethnic groups.

 

[Noodle]

Even if you think the "biblical history" is irrelevant gibberish, it's what a lot of the conflict over there is about. And frankly, it's still one of the better historical sources regarding who was where and when.

Anything Israel has done to exacerbate the conflict has been out of fear. If you were in a relatively small country and surrounded geographically by a decent amount of people that want to literally see your country get sucked into a fiery hellish inferno, you might get nervous, too. I'm not justifying the actions of either side, but I can't blame them for being nervous.

That said, the OP... really dumb.

 

[Shyam]

Sorry I've been a of a vehement prick here. I just get frustrated and feel as if I have to explain to people that merely because I identify as being ethnically Jewish that I don't align myself with Israel.

Also hate explaining that I believe it's stupid to be simply "pro-Israel" or "pro-Palestine." It's a complex issue with it's history rooted long before the formation of the state of Israel, I didn't mean to suppose you didn't know that history, Xev--my role here on campus just involves a lot of having to convince people out of unfair paradigms and binary thinking about the region and the affiliated religious/ethnic groups.

Hey didn't know you were Jewish. And I agree, I think there is fault at both sides (a lot of the world's conflicts tend to be in the gray area). Saying Israel bad or Palestine bad is oversimplifying the issue I think.

 

[tesher06]

I'm not attacking them for helping people. I'm attacking them for hurting someone while helping someone else. also you could compare Haiti and Palestine as in the same boat these days. both are places that are devastated and controlled by shitty governments. Israel has taken advantage of a poor country but has helped another.

Warped, your an idiot simple as that. This has nothing to do with politics as it's a humanitarian effort and also your like those idiots who always try to find a flaw of someone because your a dumb%$#^.

 

[Gargantou]

Guys, let's all stop fighting and agree that if it's okay for the jewish population in Israel to violently displace muslim settlements, because the jews argue that 'it was ours first', then it's perfectly fine for the native American populations to violently displace the majority of Americans(who are european settlers)!

I wonder how many pro-Israeli Americans would feel if the Indians were given more advanced weaponry than the US and came barging into their homes saying "This land used to be ours several hundreds years ago, get the **** out of here!"?

Note, I'm not pro-abolishing Israel, it's here now, it's been established, and both the Israelis and the Palestinians have to accept and deal with that fact and come up with a way to peacefully co-exist without infringing upon eachothers rights, but arguing that that the way Israel was established was a perfectly peaceful and uncriticizable way is just absurd.

I'd like to point out the 'Israeli' rebellions after WW2 in which a bunch of Israeli pro-independence militias took several british soldiers as prisoners and executed them/hung them, in an attempt to force Britain to speed up the establishment process.

I bet that's something you don't get to read about in US history books that relate to Israel.

Yes, that's right, Israeli JEWS killed UK soldiers because they wanted to FORCE the UK to vacate Israel and let'em KILL muslims without being punished for it.

Note, I'm not saying the majority of JEWS acted in this way, but there was in fact several large jewish militias in Israel following WW2, that using the same methods as for example Hamas do, tried to force the superpowers to cede to their demands.

And before anyone calls me 'anti-semitist' or 'racist', I have friends whom are both jewish and muslim in their beliefs, as well as jewish/arab ethnicities.

And saying Israel or Palestine is bad these days is an oversimplification yes, but one could argue that when Fatah was in power in Palestine(rather than the current Hamas), that Israel pursued a far more aggressive policy than the palestinian government did at that time.

Ironically, if Israel had driven a less harsh/aggressive foreign policy towards the Palestinians at the time, maybe the recent armed conflicts there could have been avoided.

IMO Fatah basically lost power specifically because Israel refused to co-operate with them, and thus the Palestinian people felt "Hey, we're not getting any change with Fatah.. Might as well try Hamas then.."

*Flameshield on*

Peace out, bros.

 

[The Monkey]

That's kind of a misleading and incomplete account account. It certainly wasn't a result of the Holocaust - the declaration that a permanent home for Jews should be established in the 'land of israel' was made by the British during WW1.

How could the British possibly promise Palestine to anyone during WWI when they didn't acquire it until after the war? The League of Nations wasn't formed until after the war.

 

[Gargantou]

How could the British possibly promise Palestine to anyone during WWI when they didn't acquire it until after the war? The League of Nations wasn't formed until after the war.

You're right, the British Mandate of Palestine wasn't even signed by the LoN until 1922.

By the way, the British Mandate of Palestine was not what led to the creation of Israel, what led to the creation of Israel was Israeli Jewish militias attack on the UK forces stationed in Palestine that increased notably from 1945 until independence.

Basically Israel in reality was founded because the UK got enough of the terrorism from these jewish militias.

Part of the reason the jewish militias started killing British soldiers etc was because the UK withdrew from the Mandate of Palestine after they saw that it was not possible to attain a peaceful divide of Palestine into a jewish and muslim nation.

 

[Bob_Marley]

How could the British possibly promise Palestine to anyone during WWI when they didn't acquire it until after the war? The League of Nations wasn't formed until after the war.

It was WWI, the British were doing the fighting (or, better yet, getting a bunch of Arabs and Jews to do the fighting for them) and were deciding what to do with the Ottoman empire once they'd finished killing Turks.

They more or less decided that Palestine would be promised to the Jews to get them to fight for the British and also as part of an indipendent Hashemite Arab state to get them to rebel against the Turks. The actual plan was to keep Palestine for themselves and shoot anyone who disagrees.

Also, you don't need the LoN/UN to let a state promise anything. Afterall, its not as if the UK and US had the UN's (or indeed that of the people who lived there) to hand over all of Eastern Europe to the USSR or give themselves a nice, big chunck of Germany, is it?

 

[The Monkey]

Also, you don't need the LoN/UN to let a state promise anything. Afterall, its not as if the UK and US had the UN's (or indeed that of the people who lived there) to hand over all of Eastern Europe to the USSR or give themselves a nice, big chunck of Germany, is it?

I'm aware of that, it's just that the victors formally went through the LoN to acquire the territories of the Ottoman Empire and the German colonies. That was why I brought it up.

Anyway, thanks for clearing it up.

 

[Sulkdodds]

Yep, I was referring to the Balfour Declaration of 1917, which was essentially a formulation of government policy saying "we intend to establish a home for the Jews".

 

[jverne]

I don't know, jverne. Why does it smell of contradiction?

EDIT: Oh, sorry, I thought you were telling a funny joke.

What is your measure of determining who has the right to ownership?

How exactly would you deal with israel/palestine...split the country in two and give them both their half?

 

[Sulkdodds]

I would edge towards Gerrard Winstanley's conviction that true ownership consists in the usage of land - in living there - but let's go with the conventional law of private property. Palestinians were forced off land that they owned and houses that they lived in. Laws were passed to specifically deny their right to ever reclaim their property. Or never mind the past: right now, Palestinians live and operate communities in territories where Israel continues to be the de facto occupying power, and into which violent settlements (and forced removals) have intruded since the Six Day War. These conditions have been catastrophic for the area's economy and for the welfare and liberty of its people. I'm sure you could compile evidence of Palestinian assaults on Israeli citizens as well, although it probably wouldn't constitute the same kind of systematic (and governmental) economic/social destruction.

So perhaps the question of ownership doesn't actually enter into this. There are communities living there. These communities are oppressed and disrupted by other communities. None of said communities have the right to do that to each other.

That seems surprisingly simple for what is widely and rightly acknowledged as one of the most complex political situations in the world.

Since it is so complicated, I don't know how I would deal with Israel and Palestine. I am not a diplomat. The Arab Peace Plan looks pretty alright. Asking "how would you deal" doesn't really detract from the point, i.e. nobody gets to blow up airports and/or each other just because they feel they have a 300-year or 2000-year old mandate.

You still haven't explained the smell.

 

[BabyHeadCrab]

It's difficult because there's some odd ~10million Palestinians many of which live outside of Gaza and the West Bank, they have no country or amnesty to speak of.

Actually you know why it would be tough, because people don't get along. Israel needs more pressure from the west, dammit. /hops on bandwagon

 

[CptStern]

haha it was their land first, the Dead Sea Scrolls mentioned that they were God's chosen people, I honestly don't see how people think that the Palestinians' anger was justified.

well, that absolutely changes everything. a scroll written thousands of years ago by some guy supposedly communicating with god decided that their people should be the rightful owners of land that was never theres to begin with. makes perfect sense. god said it was ok

I mean, I understand that they're angry that Jews won't "accept other truths other than their own" and convert to Islam,

yes this is what the palestinians want: for the jews to convert to islam. source please

but after being subjugated so many times (even by the US after WWII)

like when they helped them found the state of isreal. goddam oppresors. Palenstine was a british colony before it was made into the state of israel. if anything it was the brits who "oppressed" the jews not the US. and if by oppressing you mean defending themselves from jewish zionist/nationalist fueled terrorism then you'd be correct

I don't see how anyone can get angry at the Israelis for trying to settle in the homeland they've had since Abraham migrated from Sumer to Canaan.

really? too bad they werent the only people there. in fact they were the overwhelming majority up until 1947, the year they were given a plot of land to be shared with the non jews also living there:

WE ARE THE JEWS, RESISTANCE IS FUTILE, PREPARE TO BE ASSIMILATED

 

[Bob_Marley]

Just a quick point - niether the Gaza Strip nor the West Bank were Palestinian between '49 and '67, they were annexed by Egypt and Jordan respectively.

 

[Rico]

There sure seems to be a lot of hypocrisy coming out of the mouths of people who live in imperialist countries who have done more wrong in the world than Israel has ever done.

US: I seem to recall a certain group of native people who were displaced and massacred not that long ago.

UK: Gee, I wonder how many centuries of blood and slaughter Europe has been responsible for? It's almost like every developing nation in the world goes through a similar situation on their way to maturity. And plus, it's not like the Israelis have any reason to be hostile to Palestine or any of the other Muslim nations surrounding them... right?

And you know, Africa is a veritable paradise right now, and we all know who's responsible for that...

My point: How about you get your affairs in order in your OWN ****ING HOUSES before you start complaining about your neighbor's. None of you assholes in this thread know jack about what's going in in Palestine or Israel, because you don't live there and are not part of the conflict. If you cared so much about any of this conflict as you seem to in these boards, you'd be doing something to help them instead of squabbling on the internet amongst yourselves. The fact of the matter is that whether one of them is right or wrong, the side with the most power will win, as it has always happened in history. And you know what? The winners will be declared as righteous, because that is just how history works.

Deal with it.

 

[No Limit]

Oh Rico, you're funny. I guess instead of bringing facts in to this thread anger works much better for you. And just a quick hint, our policies today are not killing thousands of native americans each year.