Issue I have with HDR

[Dario D.]

I just wanted to voice my concern with HDR rendering. I watched the video in one of the steam updates, and now I'm afraid that my game will just be getting bright, dark, bright, dark, bright, dark, bright, dark, bright, dark.... while Im trying to play.

I also wanted to voice the concern I have with the fact that when I am outside, the only time my eyesight *ever* changes, is when I directly face the sun. The effects inherent in the HDR rendering I saw are the effects of a *VIDEO CAMERA*, as the iris opens and shuts radically, because it has to try to keep things balanced and visible.

The effects are certainly not that of human eyes.

It's kind of like when some games use a full-blown *lens* flare when you look at the sun. Only cameras do that. Eyes do a completely different kind of flare that looks closer to HL2 in method, just with streaky lines and much pain.

Is anyone else afraid of this trend? It can make the game really distracting when everything in a certain direction turns black.

It would be better to study what human eyes actually do, rather than imitate what cameras do. It's less radical, and helps the gameplay, because in real life, I can see clearly at all times. My vision never gets so radically contrasty, no matter how bright something is that I'm staring at.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Just today, I woke up and walked around my pitch-black house. Then i went to washroom, turned on the light and was unable to see for a couple seconds. When turned off the light, I was unable to see the darkened things I was able to see earlier.

The effect happens all the time to human eyes, but we are all used to it after decades of practice. What we aren't accustomed to is seeing it in a game.

The only reason it would be un-natural or distracting is that every game up until now has been unrealistic in that respect.

 

[Dario D.]

I disagree, because I went out into the blinding sun and looked around, and could see with the same vivid clarity in all directions.

When you're in normal light, your irises are in the "generally bright" lighting mode, and very ready for lighting changes. But when you're in the dark for hours and hours, then suddenly step into the light, your eyes have to change gears 180 degrees.

What Valve is attempting will put your eyes in a constant 180 degree gear-switching mode even if you're just looking around in the same lighting environment.

It would be cool to have to adjust when you go from bright outdoors to dark interior, or vice-versa, when you enter and exit buildings after being in them for a long time.

But to have everything shift constantly just for facing different directions is ridiculous, and something only cameras do. I know also because I use a video camera very often, and I notice how the camera behaves almost exactly like Valve's HDR. ...and it sucks, because while I'm filming, I can see everything no matter what the lighting changes are like in each direction, but the camera can't see jack and goes HDR on me.

 

[azz0r]

This is utterly retarded.

LOL

 

[G-Dub]

This is utterly retarded.

LOL

why?


6char

 

[Dario D.]

This is utterly retarded.

LOL

You'll say otherwise when the whole level turns black every time you face east.

 

[DEATH eVADER]

You'll be able to disable HDR on the HL2 update, except on Long Coast (initially, at least)

 

[Cole]

But to have everything shift constantly just for facing different directions is ridiculous,

When you change from a low light are into a high light area you will notice. If you are in a relative low light area.. you wont notice..

 

[Jimmeh]

The effect being showcased is more the effect you get on video cameras, very exaggerated. The human eye adjusts very quickly, the only real time it takes a while to adjust in when you've been in the dark sleeping for hours and someone opens the curtains. :upstare: Still, it looks good to me, I just hope my graphics card won't melt, if it can run it at all. Is a pixel shader 3.0 card required? Or can you still play it in 2.0?

 

[RomeoJGuy]

I disagree, because I went out into the blinding sun and looked around, and could see with the same vivid clarity in all directions.

When you're in normal light, your irises are in the "generally bright" lighting mode, and very ready for lighting changes. But when you're in the dark for hours and hours, then suddenly step into the light, your eyes have to change gears 180 degrees.

What Valve is attempting will put your eyes in a constant 180 degree gear-switching mode even if you're just looking around in the same lighting environment.

It would be cool to have to adjust when you go from bright outdoors to dark interior, or vice-versa, when you enter and exit buildings after being in them for a long time.

But to have everything shift constantly just for facing different directions is ridiculous, and something only cameras do. I know also because I use a video camera very often, and I notice how the camera behaves almost exactly like Valve's HDR. ...and it sucks, because while I'm filming, I can see everything no matter what the lighting changes are like in each direction, but the camera can't see jack and goes HDR on me.

HDR deals more with the problem of going from dark to light areas

 

[diluted]

I agree, I hope Valve doesn't overdo the effect.

 

[CyberPitz]

Dario does raise good points..although, really, I don't want to bother with it cause my 9600XT willl never EVEr see this shit.

 

[jondy]

It's all pretty irrelevant as with console commands you'll be able to tweak the effect to all your pedantic desires... or *gasp* turn it off.

 

[Cole]

Still, it looks good to me, I just hope my graphics card won't melt, if it can run it at all. Is a pixel shader 3.0 card required? Or can you still play it in 2.0?

3.0 is not required. Though I believe it will have an overall lower quality of HDR. Some things were reported on what they used for HDR a while back.

 

[Foebane]

What's needed is some way to measure human pupil diameter in all lighting conditions, to see how the human eye reacts, not some stupid electronic camera. But how is that to be done?

I agree, the most extreme cases of iris contraction always happen, say, when you stumble around in the pitch black (fully open pupil) to when you suddenly add bright light (contracts very fast to tiny pupil).

 

[StardogChampion]

Totally agree. I wish they'd focus on something more important than some stupid lighting technique that isn't even entirely realistic, and that only a small amount of buyers will be able to run.

 

[jondy]

Totally agree. I wish they'd focus on something more important than some stupid lighting technique that isn't even entirely realistic, and that only a small amount of buyers will be able to run.

I don't understand. You're saying that they shouldn't focus on next-gen graphics? Anything new in GFX tech, whether it's the new displacement mapping techniques or indeed HDR, by its very nature is system intensive.

To say that it shouldn't be developed and made mainstream because only a third of the demograpic will be able to run it would grind the steady increase in image quality we've seen over the years to a halt.

 

[DevgruSeal]

Ah yes, time for me to quote something:

"We all want realism. Then when we get it, we aren't happy because its TOO realistic. We're very hard people to satisfy." ~ Me

 

[Kebean PFC]

It may suck now, but if we listen to all you naysayers we would still be playing 2D sidescrollers. Since this is new tech, the first time you see it it may not look that great, but it will evolve.

"We all want realism. Then when we get it, we aren't happy because its TOO realistic.

True.

 

[DevgruSeal]

And eventually you get used to it as well..

By the way, I looked at my kitchen, then glanced outside, and felt my eyes have pain, but there was no visual difference. You cannot simulate pain through the computer unless you donate your body to science and let them hook you up and test out new technology

 

[StardogChampion]

To say that it shouldn't be developed and made mainstream because only a third of the demograpic will be able to run it would grind the steady increase in image quality we've seen over the years to a halt.

:bounce: Because HDR is as useful as displacement mapping? Sure.

 

[Defpotec22]

personally, i think the "whole simulate the iris" thing is a ridiculous idea, especially when you have REAL HUMAN IRIS'S WATCHING. think about it. a real iris adjusting to a fake iris on screen? sounds redundant and pointless

 

[jondy]

:bounce: Because HDR is as useful as displacement mapping? Sure.

Hmph, I'm not sure if you're taking the piss or not, but HDR does what our monitors can't. If you've played the PS3.0 1.3 patch of far cry, or run the rthdribl demo on your computer, you'd realise that the step-up in terms of realism is insane. But I'm not going to labour the point if you haven't seen it in action.

EDIT: Defpotec, disregarding the usefulness of bloom here, your monitor cannot produce enough light to make your iris dilate/contract in a way comparable to real life. On top of this, you usually don't play games in pitch darkness, with no other light pollution. So exposure adjustment is needed, to make the scene appear how it would in real life.

 

[DarkStar]

Umm.....

You do know you can turn it off if you don't like it?

 

[Defpotec22]

EDIT: Defpotec, disregarding the usefulness of bloom here, your monitor cannot produce enough light to make your iris dilate/contract in a way comparable to real life. On top of this, you usually don't play games in pitch darkness, with no other light pollution. So exposure adjustment is needed, to make the scene appear how it would in real life.

i play in complete darkness

 

[fifty7var]

It will be nice when we can all get one of these

 

[jondy]

i play in complete darkness

That's fantastic, but

a) the vast majority of people don't

b) your monitor still can't produce enough light to simulate a lightbulb, let alone the sun.

 

[Pesmerga]

When going from a really bright place to a really dark one, the eyes have more trouble adjusting because the rods in the eye have to strain harder to start picking up color in dark places. That's why there's less color in darker areas. When going from a dark place to a bright place, the transition is relatively quick, as the cones are much faster in adjusting.

 

[Styloid]

I can't really tell how 'realistic' the HDR is in HL2 so far but I am really impressed by it. As to HDR, I look at it this way: when you try to create (photoshop) a fake picture from two source pictures, one of the first and easiest things to spot that looks unnatural is not whether a shadow is slightly off or if an edge is too clean--- it's the tone and contrast of the lighting between the two different source pictures. That is what HDR "fixes" in games.

 

[Malfunction]

When I try to sleep, I open up iTunes, put on some tunes, shut off every light in my room but my PC, which means my monitor is also off. A few times I might want to get up to grab a glass of water, so I change what song is playing. I turn on my monitor, my eyes are completely blinded. I literally cannot look at my monitor for a few seconds.

That's HDR. That's real.