Japanese Developers comment on the Revolution

[The Mullinator]

http://cube.ign.com/articles/660/660408p1.html

Since no one seems to care about what is IMO the only "next-gen" console that is actually trying to do something that could be considered "next generation", I just thought I would post this as a little reminder to its existance.

Personally I thought this was an amazing idea:

With good use of the expansion terminal, isn't it possible to make, for instance, a versus shooting game without the use of the monitor, where the fight is through the controller alone? I feel that it is a great controller that can inspire many ideas, even aside from videogames."

Think laser quest at home only much better than those crap toys you used to be able to buy. Plus it could beam the message into the console and have it do something neat like record all the movements of the players and then put it together in a little replay using 3d models stored on the console.

 

[Beerdude26]

Personally I thought this was an amazing idea:
(Quote)
Think laser quest at home only much better than those crap toys you used to be able to buy. Plus it could beam the message into the console and have it do something neat like record all the movements of the players and then put it together in a little replay using 3d models stored on the console.

This sounds like the only reason I'd buy the console

 

[VictimOfScience]

Since no one seems to care about what is IMO the only "next-gen" console that is actually trying to do something that could be considered "next generation"

That's right, because the Cell Processor isn't next-generation...its next-next-gen. The realization and implementation of its architecture is WAY ahead of its time.

Please don't get me wrong though, I love what Nintendo is doing to really incite some positive change in the way developers/publishers/gamers/laypeople think about the concept of "videogaming." We need more creative minds in this field at all levels.

 

[The Mullinator]

That's right, because the Cell Processor isn't next-generation...its next-next-gen. The realization and implementation of its architecture is WAY ahead of its time.

Please don't get me wrong though, I love what Nintendo is doing to really incite some positive change in the way developers/publishers/gamers/laypeople think about the concept of "videogaming." We need more creative minds in this field at all levels.

Gaming isn't just about technology though, Cell is definitaly next generation stuff on the technological front but in terms of gaming no its not all that new at all. Better graphics, better AI, better sound does not create something new. It just improves (by a great deal) on what was already there.

 

[Sulkdodds]

I'm certainly looking far more towards the Revolution than the Xbox 360 although perhaps not more (though certainly not less) than the PS3 due to the latter's third party support.

EDIT: But shit that's a cool idea.

 

[Fishlore]

The Revolution continues to be the only thing in the video game world I'm looking forward to. I couldn't care less about the 360 or the PS3. There hasn't been a PC title in a year or so I've been the least bit interested in. I tried plenty of demos, all of which I considered garbage. If it wasn't for the DS, I would have been video game free for the last year or so. There's nothing in the PC world that I'm looking forward to.

It's Revolution or bust for me. You can call the cell processor next, next, next, next generation if you want to. The fact is, it won't change the way games are played in any way, shape or form.

 

[Dekstar]

The Revolution continues to be the only thing in the video game world I'm looking forward to. I couldn't care less about the 360 or the PS3. There hasn't been a PC title in a year or so I've been the least bit interested in. I tried plenty of demos, all of which I considered garbage. If it wasn't for the DS, I would have been video game free for the last year or so. There's nothing in the PC world that I'm looking forward to.

It's Revolution or bust for me. You can call the cell processor next, next, next, next generation if you want to. The fact is, it won't change the way games are played in any way, shape or form.

Quoted for total truth

 

[Cole]

That's right, because the Cell Processor isn't next-generation...its next-next-gen. The realization and implementation of its architecture is WAY ahead of its time.

Thats Wrong actually. It's only next gen.

Some say the Cell Processor is ahead of it's time when it's not. The architecture is a highly toned down Next-Next gen making it only Next Gen. It's programming format is next-next but it's hardware is only next.
You see, Intel would have a cell type structure but far more sub processors, and they would be able to communicate thus making each one efficent at things like AI for instance. The main processor for the Ps3 must be targeted at things like AI. While if Cell was truly next-next gen it would have about 16 sub processors, each being able to communicate and predict efficently.

Cell's programming format is next-next generation but it's hardware is only next generation because it's co-processors don't communicate and work efficent as what a next-next generation should be which is what Intel's roadmap shows down at about 2009.


This is the one console I will be buying, It's the only console that makes game actually look funner. I've seen an in-game Project Gotham 3, and it didn't look nearly as fun as NFS:U\U2. It looks like the only console that looks.....something new and fun..

 

[destrukt]

ok, so where is the definitive 'next-gen' definition all you cool kids have been using ?

 

[Cole]

The controller can track any way you move it, any tilt, etc.. Basically you could use the controller to move and attack in the gameworld. You could controller the controller anyway you want. It adds a whole new type of scheme that has never been done on such a scale before.
It is the only damn system that is trying to push out new types of gameplay.

 

[gh0st]

ah i see, so in order for a console to be REALLY next generation it must have a different control scheme. so we've been in the 1st generation of console gaming for how long?

 

[Cole]

ah i see, so in order for a console to be REALLY next generation it must have a different control scheme. so we've been in the 1st generation of console gaming for how long?

No, but it needs to provide and try to push the way we play games. Because how we play the game can completely alter the way we have fun with the game.

I don't see how upgrading graphics makes a console any funner, do you? I see how it can add more immersion at times but any funner? No.

 

[Absinthe]

I'm been looking at the Revolution's controller for some time now and I'm not really seeing how it's going to be all that revolutionary without also having some very noticeable limitations.

The very idea of playing FPS games with it just seems... not good. And even if it does turn out to be excellent, I can only imagine it being squandered on the typical Nintendo parade that's been around on every one of its consoles.

 

[Crushenator 500]

The Revolution continues to be the only thing in the video game world I'm looking forward to. I couldn't care less about the 360 or the PS3. There hasn't been a PC title in a year or so I've been the least bit interested in. I tried plenty of demos, all of which I considered garbage. If it wasn't for the DS, I would have been video game free for the last year or so. There's nothing in the PC world that I'm looking forward to.

It's Revolution or bust for me. You can call the cell processor next, next, next, next generation if you want to. The fact is, it won't change the way games are played in any way, shape or form.

Same for me

Well.. apart from the DS, i never got one of those :E

Hell, I've not even played a demo in ages since it takes me forever to download 'em

 

[Kangy]

Look, I like the ideas the Revolution presents (despite being a bit pessimistic about the chances of success), but this one seemed stupid to me:

With good use of the expansion terminal, isn't it possible to make, for instance, a versus shooting game without the use of the monitor, where the fight is through the controller alone? I feel that it is a great controller that can inspire many ideas, even aside from videogames.

Wait, so what he's saying is that we can pay $$$ for the base console, multiple controllers, expansion and game, for what you can get if you buy something that's already existed for years? Woohoo, sign me up!

 

[Absinthe]

Aye, I can also predict that it will turn into an addon whore.

 

[<RJMC>]

I really dont undertand why so many people dont like what the revolution is offering,is really something that really can be called NEW

 

[Absinthe]

Last I checked, "new" was not synonymous with "good" and that the two words are better suited as complementary to each other.

 

[The Mullinator]

And are you unhappy with games as they are now? What's not to like about the way we currently play games?

Yes I am actually becoming quite bored with them. There is almost no difference between the FPS games of old and the FPS games of today, I am sick and tired of remakes. In fact the only games I am willing to purchase today are RPG's and the reason is mainly because it is the stories and the way they are told that make them interesting rather than the way they are played. I want a new way of playing games, I want new styles of games, I want new types of gameplay, and right now Nintendo seems to be the only company willing to at least experiment with new stuff.

ok, so where is the definitive 'next-gen' definition all you cool kids have been using ?

New forms of gameplay, a game is truly all about the gameplay or else its just a tech demo, so a new type of gameplay is essentially the very idea of what "next-gen" should be.

ah i see, so in order for a console to be REALLY next generation it must have a different control scheme. so we've been in the 1st generation of console gaming for how long?

Its not just about a new controller, its about new types of gameplay. Last I checked there is nothing new in that department for the PS3 or the 360. If it requires a new controller to achieve this then so be it.

No one is saying that the Revolution is all about the new controller. Its all about the new options and possibilities that this controller will open up.

Last I checked, "new" was not synonymous with "good" and that the two words are better suited as complementary to each other.

Well guess what... We aren't going to get anything better without trying something new. Think about it that way.

Truly, every gamer should be rooting for Nintendo and hoping that this ends up being a success because guess what? If it doesn't succeed, it is us gamers that will be the real losers.

 

[Absinthe]

Well guess what... We aren't going to get anything better without trying something new. Think about it that way.

Oh, I'm well aware of that. I could also eat crap from a hooker. That would be new.

It's not like I have some vendetta against newness. I just don't particularly care for Nintendo's little revolution.

Truly, every gamer should be rooting for Nintendo and hoping that this ends up being a success because guess what? If it doesn't succeed, it is us gamers that will be the real losers.

I hate this idea that anything innovative or forward-thinking is dependent on Nintendo's input. If the Revolution fails, I couldn't care. I trust that the world has plenty of other bright minds willing to take a step forward. And because I enjoyed last generation's games, I'm willing to settle for the steady evolution of genres as opposed to brand-spanking novelty.

 

[The Mullinator]

Oh, I'm well aware of that. I could also eat crap from a hooker. That would be new.

It's not like I have some vendetta against newness. I just don't particularly care for Nintendo's little revolution.

I hate this idea that anything innovative or forward-thinking is dependent on Nintendo's input. If the Revolution fails, I couldn't care. I trust that the world has plenty of other bright minds willing to take a step forward. And because I enjoyed last generation's games, I'm willing to settle for the steady evolution of genres as opposed to brand-spanking novelty.

You really think that if this fails that anyone else is going to be willing to step up and try it again. Its always a shame when a good idea goes to waste, and I can almost gurantee that if this doesn't work out then it will simply delay other new things down the line. Gaming isn't evolving right now, thats the problem. If you don't consider this a revolution then you must at least consider it an evolution... Which is what you are perfectly happy with right?

 

[Absinthe]

How is gaming not evolving? I'm content with development in areas such as physics, AI, online gaming, distribution, visuals, and genre-blending. I can just look at Oblivion and see what they're trying to do with the AI and I think "Wow!". HL2's use of physics set a standard that games of the future will try to emulate. Yes, there are rehashes of the past, but what generation hasn't had these? Innovation is never hugely widespread. Standout titles raise the bar and then everybody else follows suit at a later point.

If the Revolution's bizarre control scheme fails, I really won't shed a tear. The public will have spoken with their money and it will be made clear that it's not welcomed at this point in time. I'm all for a new control scheme, but something like Nintendo's doesn't ring my bells. If that causes a delay in future innovations (which I doubt it will), I'll survive. I'm happy with the current progress being made. God knows there are other things besides controllers that require tending.

 

[The Mullinator]

How is gaming not evolving? I'm content with development in areas such as physics, AI, online gaming, distribution, visuals, and genre-blending. I can just look at Oblivion and see what they're trying to do with the AI and I think "Wow!". HL2's use of physics set a standard that games of the future will try to emulate. Yes, there are rehashes of the past, but what generation hasn't had these? Innovation is never hugely widespread. Standout titles raise the bar and then everybody else follows suit at a later point.

If the Revolution's bizarre control scheme fails, I really won't shed a tear. The public will have spoken with their money and it will be made clear that it's not welcomed at this point in time. I'm all for a new control scheme, but something like Nintendo's doesn't ring my bells. If that causes a delay in future innovations (which I doubt it will), I'll survive. I'm happy with the current progress being made. God knows there are other things besides controllers that require tending.

I don't consider better graphics, or AI to be gaming evolutions, those are just technological evolutions being applied to games. Physics I will admit is an evolution however. Yet out of all those there is still nothing really new, they are still FPS's or RPG's or Strategy games that are really no different from 5 years ago.

Aside from a new control scheme what else can be done to create something new? We are still pretty far away from virtual reality or holograms. New game play types can be developed but much slower and not very efficiently.

I just don't understand why you don't seem to like this. New kinds of games, almost every first hand report has said that playing current games using it is much more fun, its not sacrificing any older play styles since it can be used like a standard controller. What is not to like about it? Is it the marketing and advertising that bothers people? Because thats a pretty moronic way of not liking it simply because Nintendo is just as guilty of that as Microsoft and Sony.

People hate the marketing that Nintendo has been doing for the Revolution? Well im surprised more people don't hate Sony for marketing the Cell processor the way they have been.

 

[Cole]

Wait, so what he's saying is that we can pay $$$ for the base console, multiple controllers, expansion and game, for what you can get if you buy something that's already existed for years? Woohoo, sign me up!

Well guess what you can go on Xbox live and pay real money to unlock new shirts and new skateboards and new maps omg!!! Ohh wait...I have been able to do that for free on the Pc for many more years.
Same Concept there..... Microsoft is no better..not sure bout Sony..

Last I checked, "new" was not synonymous with "good" and that the two words are better suited as complementary to each other.

So far the Developers who have had a chance to actually use it and play around with it have liked it. I'd like to think we could associate good with it.

I hate this idea that anything innovative or forward-thinking is dependent on Nintendo's input. If the Revolution fails, I couldn't care. I trust that the world has plenty of other bright minds willing to take a step forward. And because I enjoyed last generation's games, I'm willing to settle for the steady evolution of genres as opposed to brand-spanking novelty.

Ok then settle for that, I don't seen to much of a diffrence in the fun factor from Cs 1.5 to Cs:S. Maybe a few laughs at the ragdolls but thats it.

I'm content with development in areas such as physics, AI, online gaming, distribution, visuals, and genre-blending. I can just look at Oblivion and see what they're trying to do with the AI and I think "Wow!". HL2's use of physics set a standard that games of the future will try to emulate. Yes, there are rehashes of the past, but what generation hasn't had these? Innovation is never hugely widespread. Standout titles raise the bar and then everybody else follows suit at a later point.

Still do the games get any funner to play? HL2 introduced physics, and yes it was marvling. But it just raises the bar. It dosn't take the bar break it over it's knee, and craft a bigger and brighter bar. It just raises it.

Something that recreates how you play your game dosn't lift up any bar, it create a new bar.

God knows there are other things besides controllers that require tending.

It's not the controller that I care about, or how it looks or that it's a controller it's what games could be made. I could easily imagine an extremely nice RTS, or fliping out the controller while your flying towards your couch to shoot and hit a guy on the screen. To play a Silent Hill where the controller is your flashlight. Turn off the lights so it's dark and play a Silent Hill, with the controller as your flashlight would basically draw your straight into the game like never done before.
It wont fail, if extremely high end Developers are looking into it, Nintendo has mad sucess in Japan, plus a low price tag on the revolution....trust me it's something that I could easily fall in love with.

I can understand you just ignoring it, but I can also see you never even wanting to try it when a friend or someone offers you a chance to play it. This isn't innovation, it's reconsturcting on how we basically play console games.

 

[gh0st]

i dont WANT anything different. i dont want a gimmicky console, i want something like the xbox or ps2 that are already fun to play. why not focus on improving gameplay not making stupid controllers and useless peripherals. i want better graphics, and better online games. thats it. theres a reason nintendo is consistently behind in console sales - they bring new gimmicky crap that nobody really wants.

 

[The Mullinator]

i dont WANT anything different. i dont want a gimmicky console, i want something like the xbox or ps2 that are already fun to play. why not focus on improving gameplay not making stupid controllers and useless peripherals. i want better graphics, and better online games. thats it. theres a reason nintendo is consistently behind in console sales - they bring new gimmicky crap that nobody really wants.

Its also made them the most profitable out of the three. Besides, I always thought the reason people didn't buy Nintendo stuff was because it wasn't "mature" enough. As for gimmicks? Look at the eye-toy.

 

[Absinthe]

So far the Developers who have had a chance to actually use it and play around with it have liked it. I'd like to think we could associate good with it.

Which is why I have not outright dismissed it.

Ok then settle for that, I don't seen to much of a diffrence in the fun factor from Cs 1.5 to Cs:S. Maybe a few laughs at the ragdolls but thats it.

Awesome. You choose one game that was developed with the sole intent of being a visual overhaul and that's it. Surely that's indicative of the industry?

Still do the games get any funner to play? HL2 introduced physics, and yes it was marvling. But it just raises the bar. It dosn't take the bar break it over it's knee, and craft a bigger and brighter bar. It just raises it.

Something that recreates how you play your game dosn't lift up any bar, it create a new bar.

Funner to play? What the ****? Yes, I find it funner to play. How ridiculous. And where's the cemented evidence that the Revolution is more enjoyable that conventional control pads? Last I checked, enjoyment is something that takes place on a player's end and isn't magically grafted by the console itself.

What are you trying to say? That raising the bar (playing with semantics here) isn't good enough? That the steady achievements that have been made aren't anything worthy of acclaim? Saying that these things "just" raise the standard is like saying that the move from 2D to 3D is "just" an improvement. What a major understatement.

It's not the controller that I care about, or how it looks or that it's a controller it's what games could be made. I could easily imagine an extremely nice RTS, or fliping out the controller while your flying towards your couch to shoot and hit a guy on the screen. To play a Silent Hill where the controller is your flashlight. Turn off the lights so it's dark and play a Silent Hill, with the controller as your flashlight would basically draw your straight into the game like never done before.

And I see the limitations and I see me getting pissed off and playing something else. If there's one thing in that article that I really noticed, it's the commendation for Nintendo using less buttons, as if we were being flooded with them today. Sorry, not my bag. While weaving around the control stick may be great for movement of vision, its lack of other functions (unless Nintendo drops an addon for the price of $30) make it difficult for me to see a grand scope of games extending far beyond the quirky.

I always thought the reason people didn't buy Nintendo stuff was because it wasn't "mature" enough.

I'll be honest, that's another factor in my decision to purchase a console.

 

[Crushenator 500]

its lack of other functions (unless Nintendo drops an addon for the price of $30)

Even if they do do that, then the overall price of the console, that controller addon thing, and whatever else you need is still waaay cheaper than either the 360 or ps3. hell, even throw in a few more games and its still not up to those prices

 

[Cole]

Awesome. You choose one game that was developed with the sole intent of being a visual overhaul and that's it. Surely that's indicative of the industry?

Is HL2 really funner than HL? Some parts are funner in HL2 and plenty in HL. Theres an example for ya to.

What are you trying to say? That raising the bar (playing with semantics here) isn't good enough? That the steady achievements that have been made aren't anything worthy of acclaim? Saying that these things "just" raise the standard is like saying that the move from 2D to 3D is "just" an improvement. What a major understatement.

2D to 3D made a new bar. But how far can we raise the bar till we can't raise it anymore?

And I see the limitations and I see me getting pissed off and playing something else.

Limitations?

its lack of other functions (unless Nintendo drops an addon for the price of $30) make it difficult for me to see a grand scope of games extending far beyond the quirky.

AS Crushenator said, still the revolution will be cheaper than the other consoles. Knowing Nintendo it would even be $30 for an analog add-on.

they bring new gimmicky crap that nobody really wants.

Thats where your wrong. They bring crap to Japan that well in Japan EVERYONE WANTS. Some people look at Nintendogs and say thats crap. Well in Japan there arn't really dogs and Japan people LOVE IT. As you can see, Nintendo focuses on Japan so don't say it's gimmicky crap that nobody wants. It's the same reason Xbox shit dosn't go well over there. Sony focuses on both at the same time which is while the Ps2 still averagely outsells both the gamecube and xbox.

Look, the controller looks nice. New kinds of games could easily branch and then you could start evolving gameplay. I personally can go play HL1 and have much more fun trying to get past the 3 claw things than any part of HL2. Games evolve and it's a good thing. Yes some add to add the enhancement of gameplay, but those games come out slowly. I'm tired of waiting, I want something that will make my draw drop. Nintendo is the only company trying to help developers innovate and evolve gameplay with there console.

 

[Warbie]

Check out the latest issue of Edge guys, it's got a great Revolution article in it (and comes with a DVD of the Tokyo Game Show)

I'm even more excited than I was before

//Would typing it out break some forum rules? it really is a superb article.

 

[Cormeh]

Scan it!

I was all for the Revolution a few months back, then when Nintendo announced that, for whatever reason (I don't recall) they were delaying Twilight Princess untill next summer practically I wasn't too chuffed shall we say.

However, I can't forget how Nintendo know how to do gaming, due to the fact recently me and a few mates rediscovered Mario-Kart multiplayer.

I simply can't overlook Nintendo at all, and will definetly be purchasing a Revolution. But having said that, theres no stopping me buying a 360 either, rather than argue about which is better, I'll just get the best of both world thanks.

 

[Warbie]

Scanning it would be a little naughty, no?

 

[Cormeh]

Scanning it would be a little naughty, no?

Time for Subliminal Cormeh to step in....

Very true. Do it! We don't want to Do it! push our luck and Do it! have our forum memberships revoked. Do it! .

 

[Sulkdodds]

To the arguuers on Page 2: isn't there a place in the gaming universe for both evolution and revolution? I'd say both are essential.

 

[Cormeh]

Revolution.

A sudden or momentous change in a situation: the revolution in computer technology

In terms of revolution and evolution, I concur that both are essential. Just exactly how the Revolution will be..... well revolutionary I am still not clear on.

 

[Fishlore]

i dont WANT anything different. i dont want a gimmicky console, i want something like the xbox or ps2 that are already fun to play. why not focus on improving gameplay not making stupid controllers and useless peripherals. i want better graphics, and better online games. thats it. theres a reason nintendo is consistently behind in console sales - they bring new gimmicky crap that nobody really wants.

Well if *you* don't want anything different then Nintendo is just wasting it's time right? Believe it or not there are plenty of gamers out there that *do* want something different. If you're happy with better graphics and identical gameplay, that's fabulous. You have two new consoles targeting you in addition to most of the new PC stuff as well. Luckily for people sick of the current generation of gaming there is something new and exciting for them.

 

[Absinthe]

Is HL2 really funner than HL? Some parts are funner in HL2 and plenty in HL. Theres an example for ya to.

It's still a ridiculous question because you're acting on the ridiculous and unfounded assumption that Nintendo's Revolution is going to be more fun, which is quite ironic because you've explicitly stated "Oh, but it's a different way to play games" and have therefore shot down comparisons.

I suggest you cut this line of inane questioning because if you have a point, it's not showing.

2D to 3D made a new bar. But how far can we raise the bar till we can't raise it anymore?

Was the inclusion of a Y axis in FPS gaming raising the bar or making a new one? What about the move from static props to real world physics? How about baked lighting to real-time shadowing? The move from charging brainless goons to dynamic realistic intelligence? This is stupid. Are you saying that these things aren't enough? That they mean nothing in the long scheme of things? I'm sorry, but you're freakin' nuts if you think that these haven't shaped the future of games.

The issue of not being able to raise the bar any further is so remote that we have no reason to concern ourselves with it. Our games aren't perfect yet. We still have lots of work to do in plenty of areas. The idea that we've reached some sort of level cap that the Revolution has bypassed is ridiculous.

Limitations?

A lack of buttons as I am accustomed to? A control scheme that, while great for spatial awareness, hampers general movement? That awkward bitch of a remote for a controller? For each of your examples I can only think of "gimmick game" as opposed to a properly fleshed out title.

AS Crushenator said, still the revolution will be cheaper than the other consoles. Knowing Nintendo it would even be $30 for an analog add-on.

Price isn't an issue for me.

Look, the controller looks nice.

No.

Nintendo is the only company trying to help developers innovate and evolve gameplay with there console.

Whatever. You can place Nintendo on a pedestal if you want. I only see their new console as yawn worthy and awkward.

 

[Septih]

I only see their new console as yawn worthy and awkward.

You state that we can't assume that the new system will be good yet, but you seem to be fully able to call it awkward without even seeing it in proper implementation. Not saying you're wrong, but i doubt you can call it awkward yet.

For me, i'll wait and see if they screw this thing up, if they do then i'll go without. If they make it work really well then wahey.

 

[Absinthe]

Well, I'm open to the possibility of being proven entirely wrong when it's released. Like all things, people can form speculative opinions about things they have yet to experience (ie. "Doom movie will suck", "Uwe Boll's next film will be a travesty", "The Crazy Frog game will be more annoying than Crazy Frog himself"). And I'm opinionated.

I never said that the system can't be called good. I did say it was retarded to unflinchingly embrace the idea that it will somehow be more fun than any other console in the complete absence of evidence.

 

[Sulkdodds]

Well, since the Revolution can also use a normal controller for 'normal' games I think it has an advantage on the Xbox 360 and the PS3 - it can do what they do, and also this new stuff which may or may not be the future of gaming.