John Kerry's response to Iraq Elections

[CptStern]

That is true....protesting did work during the Vietnam War, but it took so long to have any affect lots of troops were already killed.

yes ..the first few years of the US' involvement in vietnam there was no protests, no public outcry ..it wasnt until journalists started reporting from the front lines that americans actually saw what was going on ...that's why in the wars since, the US is very careful to control media access to the battlefield

But back to the point...only way things are gonna get done now is to do somethin more...how should I say this...dramatic?

If you have a devious mind like I do...you know where I'm comin from.

hehe, yes I do ...but I'm not into that type of change (putting myself at their level ..no thanks) ..it has to come from within

 

[No Limit]

Well not to start a flame war...

Just cause 51% voted for bush doesn't make them "blinded" by religion.MY grandma is one of the truest christians out there...but she voted for Kerry.

If you study and practice it right it can free your mind and body.

Not everything posted here has to be a flame war .

I am not saying that all christians out there voted for Bush or were blinded by religion, I am Catholic and voted for Kerry. The problem I have is with Republicans and Bush using the bible as a reelection strategy. This lead him to get about 27% (off top of my head, number is around there) of the voters to say moral values were the most important issue in this election and most of those voted for Bush. I don't know how you can define moral values by gay marriage and not by the fact that thousands upon thousands of people are dying in Iraq.

So 27% of Bush voters thought the most important thing was gay marriage and the likes while Kerry voters actually cared about issues such as the war, social security, welfare, health care, etc...

 

[KoreBolteR]

you know, yesterday you complained about people quoting you and hacking up your arguments, you only have yourself to blame because you often post "facts" that arent facts


Incorrect KoreBoltr, I voted in that election (dual citizenship), Aznar was on his way out ..the winning party (the opposition, Zapatero) ran on a platform of bringing the troops home from the very day the elections were called ..it was going to be a landslide even without the terrorist attack on madrid. Spaniards were overwhelmingly against the war, at 80%

ok, but i cant think of any country in the world that arent 80% against the war in Iraq tbh, except usa.

yeah i remember telling me that you were half spanish or something cool, its a very nice country, pity it had to be targeted by the militants on that day .

i have spent more time in span than i have spent in any other country, excluding my own, wales.

 

[CptStern]

ok, but i cant think of any country in the world that arent 80% against the war in Iraq tbh, except usa.

yeah i remember telling me that you were half spanish or something cool, its a very nice country, pity it had to be targeted by the militants on that day .

i have spent more time in span than i have spent in any other country, excluding my own, wales.

ok, please try not to use spain as an example next time

 

[KoreBolteR]

ok, please try not to use spain as an example next time

i was stating my opinion, until i found out from you, that that he was gonna lose the elections anyway. how do you know by the way?

i really think maybe 30 percent were for the guy you voted for, but the madrid train bombings got the people fired up at the government, and then voted for the opposition.

ps, do you take offence when i mention spain btw?...

 

[Bodacious]

the guys who slam planes into buildings, that's who

And you wonder why extreme right-wingers accuse liberals of supporting the terrorists when their message is almost the exact same.


you're right, we cant do anything about it as individuals but our voices are getting louder ..before the invasion there was a single day demonstration that had over 30 million participants ..it was history's biggest protest

As Tr0n said, what did that accomplish?

123456

 

[CptStern]

i was stating my opinion, until i found out from you, that that he was gonna lose the elections anyway. how do you know by the way?

because my parents are from spain, they followed the elections ..so did all of my relatives ..I talked to my cousins, uncles etc. I read El Pais (spains largest political paper) I saw the polls, I saw that more than 4 million people protested the war in Barcelona and Madrid alone before the war

i really think maybe 30 percent were for the guy you voted for, but the madrid train bombings got the people fired up at the government, and then voted for the opposition.

is that guess backed by any evidence? the polls clearly showed 80% spaniards were against the war ..after the bombing a new poll showed it was now 90% ..so only a 10% increase

ps, do you take offence when i mention spain btw?...

no, not at all ..But I do take offense when war supporters try to use spain to support their ideology ..which is based on the false assumption that the bombing was the only reason ..spain has been living with terrorism since the last days of Franco ..almost 30 years

 

[No Limit]

As Tr0n said, what did that accomplish?

THis has already been addressed, instead of repeating yourself read a few points up and address that.

 

[Bodacious]

at least you were able to find some connection, most of your friends can't which is why I always ask the question. Usually there is no response proving all these people do is listen to Bush and don't actually look anything up for themselves.

Is that some sort of a complement?

Now, you just admitted that Saddam's 2 examples of 'terrorists support' isn't reason enough to invade Iraq. So since we can't use that and there clearly are no WMDs what is the remaining justification for the war; human rights?

As I have said before: What is the point of asking why did we go to war? What is that going to accomplish? The troops aren't coming home even if you get every war supporter to admit the war wasn't justified.

123456

 

[Bodacious]

THis has already been addressed, instead of repeating yourself read a few points up and address that.

Well no crap, how about you butt out of my conversations and reply to what I have said to you?

 

[No Limit]

Well no crap, how about you butt out of my conversations and reply to what I have said to you?

First off, this is a public forum; no such thing as 'your conversations'. Second, my post was before you posted the question to me; what the hell are you talking about?

 

[No Limit]

Is that some sort of a complement?

Depends on how you take it; it means you are slightly smarter that a lot of your Republican friends. If you want to take that as a compliment or an insult be my guest.

As I have said before: What is the point of asking why did we go to war? What is that going to accomplish? The troops aren't coming home even if you get every war supporter to admit the war wasn't justified.

What is the point of having murder trials; it won't bring the person back so I guess the family and friends of the victim are just bitching. If you don't hold them accountable for their actions they will continue to do wrong; this has been repeated many times in the last 2 pages and you still repeat that same stupid point.

 

[KoreBolteR]

because my parents are from spain, they followed the elections ..so did all of my relatives ..I talked to my cousins, uncles etc. I read El Pais (spains largest political paper) I saw the polls, I saw that more than 4 million people protested the war in Barcelona and Madrid alone before the war

4 million is 10% of the population of spain, and once again theres the media controling everyones emotions and beliefs about politics, ..like i said, the media runs the world these days.
but even so i do believe what you say.

no, not at all ..But I do take offense when war supporters try to use spain to support their ideology ..which is based on the false assumption that the bombing was the only reason ..spain has been living with terrorism since the last days of Franco ..almost 30 years

hmm, are you talking about the terrorist group ETA from bilbao in northern spain... i think its bilbao?

 

[Bodacious]

What is the point of having murder trials; it won't bring the person back so I guess the family and friends of the victim are just bitching. If you don't hold them accountable for their actions they will continue to do wrong; this has been repeated many times in the last 2 pages and you still repeat that same stupid point.

Are you not guilty of that as well? How can you say we need to hold them accountable when the only thing people do is have protests that accomplish nothing and Bush is relected? All of the people's devices to hold people accountable have been %100 ineffective.

I am not saying what you are doing is meaningless and that you shouldn't do it. What I am saying is that your efforts are fruitless and if you really want your message to get across you need to be more active in your cause.

 

[KoreBolteR]

Depends on how you take it; it means you are slightly smarter that a lot of your Republican friends. If you want to take that as a compliment or an insult be my guest..

why do you always think people who support the war on terrorism are republican or support bush? because i dont.. and i support the war against civilian/child killing terrorists :frown:

 

[CptStern]

4 million is 10% of the population of spain, and once again theres the media controling everyones emotions and beliefs about politics, ..like i said, the media runs the world these days.
but even so i do believe what you say.

media? controlling? the media was very much in favour of Aznar ..Zapatero was the underdog

hmm, are you talking about the terrorist group ETA from bilbao in northern spain... i think its bilbao?

bilbao is a city, but yes in that region known as the Basque region

 

[No Limit]

Are you not guilty of that as well? How can you say we need to hold them accountable when the only thing people do is have protests that accomplish nothing and Bush is relected? All of the people's devices to hold people accountable have been %100 ineffective.

I am not saying what you are doing is meaningless and that you shouldn't do it. What I am saying is that your efforts are fruitless and if you really want your message to get across you need to be more active in your cause.

The hope is to accomplish something and them stopping would rip our constitution apart. You honestly believe Americans shouldn't be critical of the war? And as already pointed out and what you ignored; protests had a huge impact on Vietnam.

 

[Bodacious]

You honestly believe Americans shouldn't be critical of the war?

Where did I say that? This is what I said, and you even quoted:
I am not saying what you are doing is meaningless and that you shouldn't do it. What I am saying is that your efforts are fruitless and if you really want your message to get across you need to be more active in your cause.

And as already pointed out and what you ignored; protests had a huge impact on Vietnam.

The war in Iraq isn't vietnam is it? Here come the spin on how Iraq might as well be like vietnam.

 

[No Limit]

Where did I say that? This is what I said, and you even quoted:
I am not saying what you are doing is meaningless and that you shouldn't do it. What I am saying is that your efforts are fruitless and if you really want your message to get across you need to be more active in your cause.

You were complaining about people protesting the war, that is where I got that from that is exactly what you are talking about. If you complain about a protest that means you don't want that protest to take place, or am I just crazy?

The war in Iraq isn't vietnam is it? Here come the spin on how Iraq might as well be like vietnam.

*Slams head against the wall screaming OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!*

Why do you always twist things like this. You said:

What I am saying is that your efforts are fruitless and if you really want your message to get across you need to be more active in your cause.

I said that they are not fruitless and I gave Vietnam as a example that protests do work. How the hell did you get anything else from that?

 

[Absinthe]

The war in Iraq isn't vietnam is it? Here come the spin on how Iraq might as well be like vietnam.

Oh my ****ing God, Bodacious.

He gave an example of how protests can have a major impact on government decision. GJ on diverting the argument to something else.

 

[Bodacious]

You were complaining about people protesting the war, that is where I got that from that is exactly what you are talking about. If you complain about a protest that means you don't want that protest to take place, or am I just crazy?

If I am complaining about people protesting the war then why would I say, "I am not saying what you are doing is meaningless and that you shouldn't do it. What I am saying is that your efforts are fruitless and if you really want your message to get across you need to be more active in your cause.

How are you interpreting what I am doing is complaining? I am making the observation that your protesting is fruitless.



*Slams head against the wall screaming OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!*

Why do you always twist things like this. You said:


I said that they are not fruitless and I gave Vietnam as a example that protests do work. How the hell did you get anything else from that?


And I said, this isn't vietnam, is it? Big deal that they worked in Vietnam. As stern pointed out, 30 million people protested war in Iraq, but that didn't change a thing.

123456

 

[No Limit]

And I said, this isn't vietnam, is it? Big deal that they worked in Vietnam. As stern pointed out, 30 million people protested war in Iraq, but that didn't change a thing.

This proves to me that you aren't competent enough to see simple logic. Again you say that this isn't vietnam and again I'm going to say I AM NOT SAYING IT IS VIETNAM, I AM SHOWING YOU HOW PROTESTING HAS WORKED IN THE PAST.

And I know how you will reply, let me quote you before you even post it:

this isn't vietnam.

And for that reason debating with you is a waste of time and effort.

I won't even address your copy and paste job as I already addressed it twice and you responded EXACTLY the same way failing to address what I said.

 

[Bodacious]

Fine. What is the point of showing me protests that have worked when protests in this case have failed?

 

[No Limit]

Fine. What is the point of showing me protests that have worked when protests in this case have failed?

Who said they failed?

Also, you tell me what the point is, you brought it up.

 

[burner69]

Fine. What is the point of showing me protests that have worked when protests in this case have failed?

I believe you said

What I am saying is that your efforts are fruitless and if you really want your message to get across you need to be more active in your cause.

I believe you are being shown that sometimes it works, and that people's efforts aren't always fruitless. There's something called trying.

EDIT: More active in our cause? Like? There's not much more we can legally do. If we started going further forward we'd get branded terrorists, and get sent to Guantanimo or something.

 

[Bodacious]

30 Million people tried and accomplished nothing. Deserters in Canada are going to end up in Jail and Bush gor re-elected. So far it is fruitless.

 

[No Limit]

30 Million people tried and accomplished nothing. Deserters in Canada are going to end up in Jail and Bush gor re-elected. So far it is fruitless.

Yeah, and support for the war along with Bush's approval rating is below 50%. I would call that working. I think the support for the war is down in the 30% area; I will have to look it up.

What does that accomplish you ask? That means that Bush will think twice before making another decision like this or making more bad decisions in Iraq.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

that's why in the wars since, the US is very careful to control media access to the battlefield

All countries have done this -- even Canada did this in World War II, where after the Juno Beach was taken, Canadian soldiers began executing prisoners of war by throat slicing and gunshots.

Before you try to lay down a comparable measure, allow me this much say: The point is to show you the United States is'int the only country which, as you believe, restricts journalists or coverage.

Russia did this during the Chechyan and Afghanistan campaign. The United States is not the worst, nor is it the only one responsible.

 

[bliink]

Anyone in here planning on talking about "John Kerry's response to the Iraq Elections"?

 

[K e r b e r o s]

Doubtful.

 

[Tr0n]

Hmmmm I guess I should start it up then...

Kerry sux0rz the big one!!111!

 

[bliink]

Doubtful.

Yeah, whether or not the us censors its media is pretty off the point, and the thread has once again come down to individuals on the forum pushing their own opinions.
So, closed.