July 30th Release Candidate almost impossible...

[iamaelephant]

Valve have recently stated that the release candidate for Half Life 2 is due to be sent to Vivendi on 30th of July (source). This date is practically impossible, because Valve is planning on releasing the Counter Strike Source beta "close to the 28th" (presumably this month, but who really knows with Valve?) (source).

As we know, CS:S beta is a beta, or public test program for the Source engine(source), therefore if these dates were true, Valve have given themselves a total of two days to find and eliminate all the bugs that CS:S beta reveals.

Furthermore, a summer release is extremely unlikely in this scenario. Let's say Valve release CS:S beta on the 28th of July. The beta test goes for, say, 3 weeks (and I'm being very generous to Valve here). On August 18th, the source engine is deemed as bug-free as possible, the beta is closed and Valve sends a release candidate to VU. VU plays through the game on several machines (from what I've heard, publishers test RC's very thoroughly). If Valve are very lucky the first RC will make it through, and go gold on, say, the 30th of August.

Valve have promised us a worldwide release (and we all know how Valve like to keep their promises) so expect at least 3 weeks between Gold and shipping date. At the very best, we'll see HL2 September 20th. That is being extremely optimistic. I'm still putting my money on October - November.

 

[gunstarhero]

I was wondering about the same thing. September 20th is still Summer so they kind of got us on a BS default there. I am still hoping to be pleasently suprised.

 

[Mr-Fusion]

Yeah that CS:S situation throws a big cog into the works.

It all depends on what they've got planned. If CS:S is supposed to ship on CD, with HL2 then yes we won't be seeing the game for quite a while yet.

If they're planning on releasing CS:S through steam for all HL2 users then our chances of seeing the game soonish (1-2 months) improves.

/goes back to waiting.

 

[alan8325]

You could be right but I don't see how the HL2 release candidate going to Vivendi depends on the completion of the CS:S beta test. As long as CS:S is free with HL2, it can be sent to HL2 owners via Steam at any time. According to Valve, the Source engine is complete and being tested for bugs in-house and will be tested again by Vivendi with the release candidate. There is no reason why they couldn't have finished HL2 while still beta testing CS:S. I think the CS:S beta is primarily to test Steam's ability to handle the bandwidth requirements.

 

[Gossoon]

It kind of makes sense for them to release CS:S exclusively thru Steam because you need Steam to play it. I don't think they're initially releasing it with bots. This way it cuts down on disk space and they don't have to have it ready exactly at launch.

 

[MaDMaXX]

I agree with alan on this actually.
Also, DO NOT expect anything past the first release of the beta, it will have any bugs noted by valve with their feedback program and fixed internally, you'll get one version of the beta for maybe a couple of weeks.

 

[h4vvok]

Sigh...please read all the emails of questions to valve...I recall them saying more than once that CS:Source will not be released at the same time as HL2, and that it will be available for free for those who have HL2 AT A LATER DATE....there have been a few other topics on this, so please read them..

 

[Mr-Fusion]

Ahh thanks for that h4vvok i must of missed them.

 

[MaDMaXX]

Actually h4vvok, if you read the latest info, CS source is on the HL2 CD.

 

[MaDMaXX]

lol, lets see if i can find it.

 

[Sparta]

No i think CS:Source will be distributed through steam after HL2 has been released. I don't think they'd delay the game again just for CS:Source to ship with it when HL2 is all done

 

[Kouler]

Well h4vv0ks post just blows iamanelephant's theory completely out of the water

 

[MaDMaXX]

:/ hmm, can't find it now, (convenient i know) it was on my home comp somewhere, what i can find however, is the most recent interview, quoted on the front page of this site in fact, that CS source and hl2 are *planned* to be available *together*

This of course doesn't mean they are on the same cd.
Could someone do me a favour and find the info saying they plan to put CS source on the HL2 CD, i know i've read it very recently.

Sidenote; please notice how they can only say *plan* at the moment, no one can be anymore specific, this goes for whining about the release date projected time as well, they can only *plan* for a summer release. At the end of the day, its always of mice and men.

 

[iamaelephant]

Sigh...please read all the emails of questions to valve...I recall them saying more than once that CS:Source will not be released at the same time as HL2, and that it will be available for free for those who have HL2 AT A LATER DATE....there have been a few other topics on this, so please read them..

"Sigh"

Please read my original post. I dont give two shits when CS:S is due for release. The CS:S BETA, which is a test for the Source engine, is due on the 28th. Do you really believe Valve will release a public beta/test for an engine they intend on finishing two days after the test? That just wouldnt make sense, there's no way in hell they could fix all of Source's bugs in 2 days.

Please refer me to these "other threads." I'm very curious.

 

[MaDMaXX]

Yeah, there has been lots more up to date info on the avilability of CS source, so technically h4vvok's info is wellout of date.

 

[Dementor]

Computer Games Romania: Will you ship Half-Life: Source and Counter-Strike: Source in the same time with Half-Life 2?

Doug Lombardi: Yes, we plan to make them available at the same time.5. Computer

Games Romania: More important, will Counter-Strike: Source be free for Half-Life 2 owners?
Doug Lombardi: It will be included with Half-Life 2.

Sure sounds like it will be fininshed at the same time.Though it could mean we get to download it off steam

 

[brink's]

Would any off you be mad if valve said that they were releasing HL2 without CS:S. I don't know about you but I would be more pissed if they held back its release just for that. Plus, we will have the CSS beta and if valve has any decentness what so ever they would extent the CSS beta to HL2 owners.

 

[MaDMaXX]

Sparta, that make most sense so far.

 

[MaDMaXX]

Computer Games Romania: Will you ship Half-Life: Source and Counter-Strike: Source in the same time with Half-Life 2?

Doug Lombardi: Yes, we plan to make them available at the same time.5. Computer

Games Romania: More important, will Counter-Strike: Source be free for Half-Life 2 owners?
Doug Lombardi: It will be included with Half-Life 2.

Ok thanks, that is what i was looking for, however;

1) It says available at the same time ( and there is that word *planned* again)

2) It says it will be included with (this does NOT mean on the CD as i originally presumed) it just means as someone else posted, it will be available to those that buy HL2.


This does alleviate the possible problem with timing layed out by elephant. So hopefully, all is going according to plan

 

[Kouler]

Valve aren't stupid, they will release HL2 even if CS:S is not done

 

[iamaelephant]

Computer Games Romania: More important, will Counter-Strike: Source be free for Half-Life 2 owners?
Doug Lombardi: It will be included with Half-Life 2.

I doesnt get much clearer than that. It will be included with Half Life 2. That can only mean one thing, CS:S is in the HL2 box.
Crytek never said Far Cry would be included with a patch, did they? No, because it wasnt. If CS:S was going to be a free download later on down the track, Doug wouldnt be telling us it was coming with HL2.

 

[alan8325]

So we wanted to ship something that people could play, that lots of people knew how to play, that would get the Source engine into lots and lots of people's hands. Shipping a part of CS:Source was the best compromise of a number of factors. Hopefully it will go smoothly, and we'll be that much closer to getting Half-Life 2 out the door. If it doesn't go smoothly, better find out now rather than after we've shipped Half-Life 2.

http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1298&page=43&pp=15

This quote by Gabe Newell leads me to believe that the CS:S beta needs to be finished before HL2 is shipped, but I don't know what that means about the release candidate. Hopefully they can send the first RC to Vivendi before the beta is finished.

 

[iamaelephant]

Thank you so much alan8325, I was searching for that when I first made this post but I couldnt find it.

There is no arguing now, let's face it, HL2 will be late, and it's all CS:S's fault.

Edit: Alan, maybe you want to consider pasting in the first paragraph aswell, for context's sake. It gives the statement a greater impact, and make me look more..... well, right. :smoking:

 

[Kouler]

Theres still the chance of Open Beta Testing

 

[Sparta]

Computer Games Romania: More important, will Counter-Strike: Source be free for Half-Life 2 owners?
Doug Lombardi: It will be included with Half-Life 2.

I doesnt get much clearer than that. It will be included with Half Life 2. That can only mean one thing, CS:S is in the HL2 box.
Crytek never said Far Cry would be included with a patch, did they? No, because it wasnt. If CS:S was going to be a free download later on down the track, Doug wouldnt be telling us it was coming with HL2.

Actually it could quite simply mean that they will include a CD-Key with HL2. Besides, if i know Valve, nothing they say is set in stone (With an exception to the RC on July 28th/30th, whenever it is)

 

[MaDMaXX]

OK, elephant, no, your understanding of english evades you at this point i'm sorry to say, read my post.

Alan, yes, its only required for the SDK, it is the example code they are using for a mod in the SDK, which they want on the CD, if there are still minor bugs, and lets face it, vALVE do have their own beta testers, its not gonna matter about the minor ones int he SDK code, so they're not gonna need to release a beta to the general pubilc to get the major bugs.

 

[iamaelephant]

Wow MaDMaXX, you managed to insult my understanding of the English language, and make yourself look like a complete drongo in one post.

Edit:

We're quite close to shipping Half-Life 2. One thing you'd like to do before you ship a brand new game engine to millions of people is make sure you haven't missed something that is going to affect a bunch of people (.e.g "argh, why didn't it occur to us that some people might have DX 9 hardware, but only have DX8 installed").

So we wanted to ship something that people could play, that lots of people knew how to play, that would get the Source engine into lots and lots of people's hands. Shipping a part of CS:Source was the best compromise of a number of factors. Hopefully it will go smoothly, and we'll be that much closer to getting Half-Life 2 out the door. If it doesn't go smoothly, better find out now rather than after we've shipped Half-Life 2.

Read carefully. Does it look like he's talking about the SDK or making a mod? Honestly mate, dont bother. I started this thread because I know that everything I have said is right. I'm not trying to sound arrogant, but some people around here need to face facts. This game is still a fair ways off.

Why do people have such a hard time accepting, even after all the times Valve have shafted us, that this game will not meet it's intended release date?

 

[Sparta]

Exactly, the beta test is for all the minor bugs that might've slipped by them, and also to test the netcode. Thats it. Unless CS:Source causes everyone's computer to blow up, i doubt HL2 will be delayed because of it.

Also, i think Valve would have extensivly (sic) tested their netcode by now. after all they said MP is just as important as MP so why would they test the netcode for the first time just as the expect HL2 to go Gold?

 

[MaDMaXX]

It may have seemed a little harsh elephant, for that i apologise, it wasn't what i intended, however, your statement of

"I doesnt get much clearer than that. It will be included with Half Life 2. That can only mean one thing, CS:S is in the HL2 box."

unfortunately only states one outcome of a sentence ive already explained can mean two different things.

 

[iamaelephant]

Read my edit above.

Also, sorry about all my spelling mistakes, I'm typing too bloody quickly because I'm so excited about the impending Doom 3 release.

 

[MaDMaXX]

"Shipping a part of CS:Source was the best compromise of a number of factors"

Um, looks imho like SDK, but that doesn't mean i'm right :/

Yes i think we're all excited about the Doom3 release, which reminds me, i must go preorder that.

We're not all trying to deny the possibility of a slight delay in the release, but granted, non of us want that. But so far, it does appear a slight grey area as to how much exactly, CS Source might hold up the release date of HL2.

Perhaps someone might be so kind as to mail this thread to vALVE and see whether they care to comment at all?

 

[lans]

Exactly, the beta test is for all the minor bugs that might've slipped by them, and also to test the netcode. Thats it. Unless CS:Source causes everyone's computer to blow up, i doubt HL2 will be delayed because of it.

Also, i think Valve would have extensivly (sic) tested their netcode by now. after all they said MP is just as important as MP so why would they test the netcode for the first time just as the expect HL2 to go Gold?

Well, Cs:s is going to be available at the same time with HL2 (worded badly by Lombardi), but on steam or with the package?

Anyway, cs:s isn't pushing back HL2's release. They had to write the netcode for the SDK,anyway.

 

[alan8325]

If HL2 is delayed again, it may be CS:S's fault but at least Valve will become aware of bugs in the net-code when large numbers of people are playing at once. Better to get those out of the way now rather than when we are playing HL2 and getting frustrated with bugs in multiplayer. Besides, there's a chance there will be no serious bugs in the beta.

 

[Sparta]

I really wish the next person that goes to Valve asks them about CS:Source shipping with HL2 so we can work this whole business out.

Personally i think Valve are very confident that they will make the RC on the 30th, and that the beta testing will stamp out any little bugs they find. Thats why i think the RC is going to be the final version of the game thats get released after CS:Source is done with Beta testing.

For example. they finish HL2 and make a RC on the 30th. Then they start the beta testing. The RC is made before the beta testing period so as soon as the beta period is over and only a few minor bugs are found they can start publishing HL2 and get it out as soon as possible

 

[iamaelephant]

Eh, I suppose we dont have long to wait and see. It's the 15th today, so in two weeks we will hopefully know what the hell is going on.

Anyways, I'm off to bed. Night fellas.

 

[Sparta]

Eh, I suppose we dont have long to wait and see. It's the 15th today, so in two weeks we will hopefully know what the hell is going on.

But if we still don't know anything, we'll at least have Doom 3 to occupy us :cheers:

 

[iamaelephant]

Indeed :cheers:

 

[ailevation]

:dozey: How do you know if they are sending out the CS:S Beta specifically for CS:S ONLY itself, how Counter Strike handles the Source and not testing out the Source for Half Life 2 through CS:S?

 

[Sparta]

I think what they are concerned about is the engine and the netcode not the actual games (If thats what you meant, i was kinda confused by your statement)

 

[Mr-Fusion]

Really?
here are some exampels for ya.
"July 30th Release Candidate almost impossible"
"Possibly 3 more weeks till HL2 is finished"

Hey it was an extremely optimistic estimate based off the July 30th info Gabe told us.

This was before the July 28th CS:S beta date was announced. So HL2 may still be finished in 3 weeks but CS:S may hold up the release date by quite a bit.

Either way none of us have a damn clue what's going on but talking about this is a good way to waste precious time.