July 30th Release Candidate almost impossible...

[hiln]

Don't see how they are...

The beta lasts until the 12th, to confirm that Source is all in order. After 2 or 3 RCs, It goes gold in the latter part of August. 2 to 3 weeks production time puts us in early September.

Who said it lasts until the 12th? And if they see good results early on, I don't see why they would wait that long.

 

[RoguePsi]

Just look at the Doom 3 community, they couldn't be happier, even before the Gold announcement, because id doesn't screw their fans like Valve does.

For that reason alone, Gabe should hang you by your balls until you say sorry. Oh, and not let you ever play a Source game. Ever. :dozey:

 

[hiln]

For that reason alone, Gabe should hang you by your balls until you say sorry. Oh, and not let you ever play a Source game. Ever. :dozey:

Or he will just let him buy his game and become that much richer...

 

[FISKER_Q]

I couldn't agree more Gmeister. I would rather Valve wait and make sure the game is finished before releasing it, but I also wish Valve would take a leaf out of ID's book at just tell people "It's done when it's done" instead of this crap they keep pulling.

Just look at the Doom 3 community, they couldn't be happier, even before the Gold announcement, because id doesn't screw their fans like Valve does.

So first stating the game is out in 2002, then 2003, then 2004. Isn't the same crap? I'm impressed.

Edit: ID Software were also the ones who launched the biggest building ad, atleast at E3, with big letters saying "Coming 2003"

 

[Sparta]

Just look at the Doom 3 community, they couldn't be happier, even before the Gold announcement, because id doesn't screw their fans like Valve does.

Actually the only reason Valve is coping so much flack is because of immature and inpatient gamers, like yourself

 

[FISKER_Q]

Actually the only reason Valve is coping so much flack is because of immature and inpatient gamers, like yourself

Yeah that's what i'm talking about.

He was probably one of the first to go "OMG [AKS]WARRIOR H4X0RED US ALL OH NOES!!1"

 

[iamaelephant]

So first stating the game is out in 2002, then 2003, then 2004. Isn't the same crap? I'm impressed.

Edit: ID Software were also the ones who launched the biggest building ad, at least at E3, with big letters saying "Coming 2003"

That was Activision, not id, and considering id's amazing history in both PR and absolutely awesome games, one slip up is excusable. They dont keep things shrouded in mystery and let little bits of cryptic information past every few weeks to confuse the hell out of their loyal fan base. Doom 3 fans are happy, and for the most part HL2 fans are confused and irritated.

 

[Sparta]

And we are confused and irritated mainly because of people like you, who doubt everything that Valve says simply because of one slip-up.

 

[FISKER_Q]

That was Activision, not id, and considering id's amazing history in both PR and absolutely awesome games, one slip up is excusable. They dont keep things shrouded in mystery and let little bits of cryptic information past every few weeks to confuse the hell out of their loyal fan base. Doom 3 fans are happy, and for the most part HL2 fans are confused and irritated.

Haha that's rich, do you really believe ID would approve it? If the publisher went behind their backs?

Vivendi did it, Take 2 did it. And they both got screwed.

Anyways it doesn't take a moron to know that Carmack isn't that gamertype developer anymore. And that's probably why his game will suck big donkey balls, he's of course more than welcome to prove me wrong though.

 

[Sparta]

Ok Fisker Q, that last comment was just ridiculous. You haven't even played Doom 3 and you're already saying it will "suck big donkey balls"? Thats about as Fanboy as it gets

 

[Sparta]

one slip up is excusable.

Then why do you doubt every single thing Valve say?
When Gabe stated the system specification for HL2 a week or so ago
you said "Yet another flat out lie perpetrated by our good friends at Valve."

Why the hell would they lie about the system specs?
And after Valve makes one slip-up you start saying sh*t like this. Get lost

 

[FISKER_Q]

Ok Fisker Q, that last comment was just ridiculous. You haven't even played Doom 3 and you're already saying it will "suck big donkey balls"? Thats about as Fanboy as it gets

Let's just say that a generation of games with no storyline.
An addition to that by his anti-storyline remarks.
An addition to that, to go from gamer to developer.

There was once where lo-poly models didn't have to be ugly, have you had a polycount on those models in Doom 3 lately?

That ideal is other companies living of right now, the ATi team uses it in their 3DC compression, Epic also uses it in their Unreal Engine.

There is no doubt in my mind, that the engines made by ID are of superior quality. But their games has never cut it, and i doubt Doom 3 will either. There is no doubt that i'll probably scared to death by playing the game.

But you can easily see that games doesn't matter to Carmack, he's of course just trying to sell his engine, by maxing out the technology in his game, even though it's unessecary.

So please show me how the hell i CAN expect else from Doom 3?

The game looks like plastic, Carmack want's nothing to do with storyline at all, the previous games doesn't exactly show otherwise else.

If Doom 3 can do anything else than scaring me to death i'll be the first to admit i'm wrong, but i know that Carmack is a engine builder, not a gamedeveloper. And he's damn good at that.

 

[subtlesnake]

Repeat after me:

id is not Carmack.
id is not Carmack.
id is not Carmack.

Everybody forgets about the people really making this game, really trying to make an incredibly intense and immersive experience.
Notice:

1. The combat only starts after a lengthy combat less, introductory segment, where the player is free to explore the base (can anybody think of another game that did this?)

2. The player has access to e-mail logs which tell a complete backstory, a la SS2

3. The player has to work with other characters, keeping them alive so they can help him (sound familiar?)

4. The flashlight can only be used on it's own, forcing the user to choose between light or a fully armed weapon.

5. Ammo and weapons are in limited supply and every shot counts. The player is not some tanked up superhuman unlike in other id games and hits from monsters will actually disorient him.

 

[FISKER_Q]

Repeat after me:

id is not Carmack.
id is not Carmack.
id is not Carmack.

Everybody forgets about the people really making this game, really trying to make an incredibly intense and immersive experience.
Notice:

1. The combat only starts after a lengthy combat less, introductory segment, where the player is free to explore the base (can anybody think of another game that did this?)

2. The player has access to e-mail logs which tell a complete backstory, a la SS2

3. The player has to work with other characters, keeping them alive so they can help him (sound familiar?)

4. The flashlight can only be used on it's own, forcing the user to choose between light or a fully armed weapon.

5. Ammo and weapons are in limited supply and every shot counts. The player is not some tanked up superhuman unlike in other id games and hits from monsters will actually disorient him.

Firstly i didn't say that ID = Carmack.
Secondly Carmack happens to be one of the ones apparently willing to give us a "immersive experience" (Which i know is bull, cause he'd rather earn his money on 1 million $ engine deals with rojalties.)

And lastly, DUH ITS A FREAKING HORROR GAME, of course it's going to be hard and dark.

 

[subtlesnake]

You were making a judgement about Doom 3 based on your interpretation of Carmacks views. Carmack is not the one making the gameplay experience and If you look at what the dev team have said you'll see they're very dedicated to story.

The last single player fps they made was 7 years ago, there is no legacy of modern single player games to judge from. Certainly, they've made a great many steps in the direction of HL with regards to integrating story into the game.

If they'd wanted to slap together a quick tech demo they could have done so some time ago. Neither did they have to make the game a 20+ hour experience.

 

[kevinb456]

keep on topic...

i can see from a business point of view a later release may be good (after september). For one, it will give hl2 better sales because there will be little competition (if they released at the same time as doom3 there would be alot more competition). also it would be closer to christmas, which we all know is a big time for the game industry.

while im still hoping against hope that valve release hl2 as soon as possible, i can see that from a money making point of view a release date closer to christmas is much more sensible. its already been years and years in developement, whats 1 or 2 months extra to valve? after all, theyre a business and im sure making money one of the top priorities.

what do u think?

 

[FISKER_Q]

You were making a judgement about Doom 3 based on your interpretation of Carmacks views. Carmack is not the one making the gameplay experience and If you look at what the dev team have said you'll see they're very dedicated to story.

The last single player fps they made was 7 years ago, there is no legacy of modern single player games to judge from. Certainly, they've made a great many steps in the direction of HL with regards to integrating story into the game.

If they'd wanted to slap together a quick tech demo they could have done so some time ago. Neither did they have to make the game a 20+ hour experience.

Yes amongst other things i'm also judging it on Carmack's views. And there's nothing to interpret, only what he says, and he says that story is unnessecary. I don't try to dig out false statements by boring into what people mean, i dig out what's already there.

What else do i have to judge it on? It's like having Gabe Newell saying that Physics will be great, but not trust him as representing his own company.(Yes i know that Carmack only cofounded ID)
And as i already said that they're welcome to prove me wrong, but the only thing they have shown sofar is that it's a horror game based on a good engine.

Horror games are supposed to have some kind of immersion, otherwise it wouldn't be a horrorgame.
And i'm sure they have forfilled those tasks that makes it a horrorgame, and that's what i take it for. A horrogame with what it needs, and no more.

 

[Darkknighttt]

i think hl2 will come out early september.

 

[Seppo]

i think hl2 will come out early september.

Me too. At the time of E3 when everyone thought the release date would be damn near, I was almost certain that HL2 would come out in July. But now I think it's late August or early September.

 

[subtlesnake]

Yes amongst other things i'm also judging it on Carmack's views. And there's nothing to interpret, only what he says, and he says that story is unnessecary. I don't try to dig out false statements by boring into what people mean, i dig out what's already there.

What else do i have to judge it on? It's like having Gabe Newell saying that Physics will be great, but not trust him as representing his own company.(Yes i know that Carmack only cofounded ID)
And as i already said that they're welcome to prove me wrong, but the only thing they have shown sofar is that it's a horror game based on a good engine.

Horror games are supposed to have some kind of immersion, otherwise it wouldn't be a horrorgame.
And i'm sure they have forfilled those tasks that makes it a horrorgame, and that's what i take it for. A horrogame with what it needs, and no more.

So they hired a writer because they didn't care about the story? Seriously, I don't think you should be judging the game just based on Carmack's comments. Carmack actively fought the development team over several issues, for instance the inclusion of the crouch key (a fight he lost) and he does not represent the views of id as a whole.

Yes, it's just a horror game. But being a horror game doesn't mean it will automatically suck. And there are lots of indications that Doom 3 will be a very immersive experience. The lighting system, the sound system, the unified game interface (a PDA) the seamless destructible geometry.

 

[Wesisapie]

who needs crouch anyway, or jump?
just run and shoot buttons, baby!

 

[63]

who needs crouch anyway, or jump?
just run and shoot buttons, baby!

Welcome to the vast imagination of Wesisapie!

 

[Fender357]

Valve have recently stated that the release candidate for Half Life 2 is due to be sent to Vivendi on 30th of July (source). This date is practically impossible, because Valve is planning on releasing the Counter Strike Source beta "close to the 28th" (presumably this month, but who really knows with Valve?) (source).

As we know, CS:S beta is a beta, or public test program for the Source engine(source), therefore if these dates were true, Valve have given themselves a total of two days to find and eliminate all the bugs that CS:S beta reveals.

Furthermore, a summer release is extremely unlikely in this scenario. Let's say Valve release CS:S beta on the 28th of July. The beta test goes for, say, 3 weeks (and I'm being very generous to Valve here). On August 18th, the source engine is deemed as bug-free as possible, the beta is closed and Valve sends a release candidate to VU. VU plays through the game on several machines (from what I've heard, publishers test RC's very thoroughly). If Valve are very lucky the first RC will make it through, and go gold on, say, the 30th of August.

Valve have promised us a worldwide release (and we all know how Valve like to keep their promises) so expect at least 3 weeks between Gold and shipping date. At the very best, we'll see HL2 September 20th. That is being extremely optimistic. I'm still putting my money on October - November.

Sory for not reading the rest of the thread, i jsut wanted to put my input on this post.

What if Valve did send out the RC on July 30, and the CS:S is out the 28th.

SO what? Who says that Valve can't gather the info they need off of CS:S before HL2 is shipped, and when it is shipped, make the fixes they need in updates? I mean....alot of what will be tested with CS:S will be Sources online abilities (and of course how it runs in different systems). But by now they should be pretty sure they've got everything right.

CS:S will just be out ahead of the big thing so that if any problems arise with it, it can be fixed before HL2 ships, and then updated after you've got HL2 on your pc.



Thats what I think could happen at least.


But then thats only if any of those dates have any validity at all. Which is hard to be sure of.

 

[Cerpin]

Welcome to the vast imagination of Wesisapie!

Ah, sarcasm, that`s awesome!

 

[Octavian]

Here's my input. When HL2 comes out, all the developers are going out for 1+ night(s) of excessive tequila.

It'll be out soon, guys. No worries.

 

[nc17]

So many good games comming out this year

HL2
Doom3
Splinter Cell Chaos Theory (SC 3)
Stalker (Hopefully)

I am personally looking forward to the new splinter cell game, that is my most anticipated next to HL2

 

[Arc. KiLL]

I hope is going to be out on the 28th, that means its competion for doom 3, i think thats why VALVe Really want to beta test it with everyone , HL2's not far off then ha...........

 

[Seppo]

when is Pariah supposed to come out? I read an E3 2004 article from a gaming magazine and according to it the release date was set to October 4, 2004?

edit: in fact, what I'm I doing postin this here? I need some sleep

 

[Wolf]

That was Activision, not id, and considering id's amazing history in both PR and absolutely awesome games, one slip up is excusable.

Amazing history of awesome games? ROFL not this century. Wolf3D? - Great. Doom? - Great. Doom2 - great but more of the same. Quake - impressive leap in terms of fully 3D graphics, but still the same old gameplay and the same old monochromatic art design. SS1 & Duke were better by far. Quake 2 - terrible, easily one of worst single player FPS ever made. Multiplayer saved by CTF mod. Gameplay, design, story, art assets, everything about it was absolutely killed by Unreal, HL1, Shogo and NOLF1. Quake 3 - glorified deathmatch, even if it did require skillz. Nothing to write home about beyond the awesome engine. RtCW - same old derivative crap with decent multiplayer. MoHAA was the better game.

Not one of id's recent games is an awesome single player game in comparison to the competition. D3 will hopefully change id's abysmal track record with single player games...

 

[Seppo]

You forgot to mention Commandr Keen, which is awesome!

The multiplayer in RtCW wasn't decent, it was awesome. The multiplayer itself could've been enough of a reason to buy the game. But I don't deny taht id's singleplayer campaignes have been somewhat dull. But it's not only id, before Half-Life hardly any FPS had even a decent plot, so that's sometimes unfair criticism.

 

[X-Vector]

But it's not only id, before Half-Life hardly any FPS had even a decent plot, so that's sometimes unfair criticism.

Not quite; compare Quake and Quake 2 to their respective LucasArts counterparts, Dark Forces and Jedi Knight, and you'll see just how dull id's post-DooM singleplayer efforts have been.

As for people ragging on imaelephant's comments, I feel that's unjustified as the gist of his argument is entirely defendable.
Unlike id, Valve have repeatedly promised to deliver content in a certain timeframe and have repeatedly failed to live up to those promises - Half-Life 2, the SDK, Bink movies, etc.
I won't accuse Valve of malicious intent, but I do wonder why they haven't adopted the "once bitten, twice shy" adagio and stopped keeping people's hopes up with unsustainable estimates, even if they're as wide-ranging as "summer" or "fall".

I'm a big fan of Half-Life and still have high expectations for its successor, but Valve certainly should not be exempt from justifiable criticism, nor should their honour be defended by means of unjustifiable flaming.

 

[Mountain Man]

Well, Valve is more closely connected with their fanbase than any other developer I know of, so it's quite possible that we occasionally hear things that are subject to change. Remember, the alternative is the frustrating Area 51 where don't hear anything about the game until it's done. Given the wealth of "on the fly" information we get from Valve on a regular basis, I much prefer that to not hearing anything at all.

 

[Mr-Fusion]

SO IN CONCLUSION.

Iamelephant is almost certainly correct.

Assumptions based off percentages, odds and dates.

-First HL2 RC given at July 30th will not be perfect. Will require many more weeks of bug fixing and testing
-CS:S beta starts around the 28th July runs for 2 weeks. Therefore it is IMPOSSIBLE that HL2 which includes CS:S, will even go gold before mid-August.
-CS:S beta test will probably reveal even more problems which will have to be fixed.

To me, mid to late September looks like a likely gold date. October will be release time.

 

[FISKER_Q]

SO IN CONCLUSION.

Iamelephant is almost certainly correct.

Assumptions based off percentages, odds and dates.

-First HL2 RC given at July 30th will not be perfect. Will require many more weeks of bug fixing and testing
-CS:S beta starts around the 28th July runs for 2 weeks. Therefore it is IMPOSSIBLE that HL2 which includes CS:S, will even go gold before mid-August.
-CS:S beta test will probably reveal even more problems which will have to be fixed.

To me, mid to late September looks like a likely gold date. October will be release time.

If that's what he has been saying then someone needs some courses in expressions.

The only thing i remember is that HL2 for some reason can't go RC because of CS:S beta.

We don't even know what version CS:S is when it gets released. I'm in the Windows XP SP 2 beta test as well, but that doesn't mean the product is beta. Right now we've been going through a couple of betabuilds, and since that it's been nothing but RC releases.

I agree that Half-Life 2 probably might not make it to stores before mid-september/late-september/early-october.

But CS:S is only a source engine and compatibility test, not a gameplay test, And Half-Life 2 is the same.

So it's essentially, that on one side we have some game testers to report bugs in HL2.

On the other side we have some game testers to report bugs in CS: S.

And this is only a good thing.

Not only do they get to test their reliability under network load(Won->Steam transision, CS: Source download/preload) But they also get a headstart on all the compatibillity issues that might arise. And when HL2 is RC'ed they also get a much bigger testing audience, to fix bugs based upon.

This ensures that the RC process will go as planned, and it will be as successful as possible. And i believe a 4 week schedule should be possible.

 

[Tyredas]

It is also possible that the include the beta of CS: S on the HL2 cd and then get the 1.0 patch ready and upload it via steam by the day of the release. This way they don't delay the whole stuff.

I'm not particularly versed in the way video games are released but that seem rather plausible to me.

 

[X-Vector]

Remember, the alternative is the frustrating Area 51 where don't hear anything about the game until it's done. Given the wealth of "on the fly" information we get from Valve on a regular basis, I much prefer that to not hearing anything at all.

I don't.

The trouble is, any information and media given out will be gobbled up by people like me who don't have the self-discipline to deny themselves.
The negative effect is that the game loses some of its 'freshness', IMO the total amount of HL2 footage recieved since April last year is overkill.

Besides, when it comes to a release date, I'd rather hear nothing at all than claims that turn out untrue.
If Valve are adamant on dishing out info on the game, at least they could refrain from commenting on release schedules.
Even a company such as 3DR has seen the light in this regard, so why can't Newell & co.?

 

[Mr-Fusion]

Of course in the long run it's a fantastic thing to delay it to get more bugs out.

But in the short term with peoples patience running thin, it's a bad thing

I must admit i'm pretty damn anxious for the revolution to begin when this juggernaught is rolled out. It's a battle between emotion and professionalism really. The more it's delayed the more i start to think they should just release as is and patch it with steam. But the little logical voice inside whispers "omg liek wtf, the game will be much more polished and bug free if they delay for another month dude, omg wtf liek signing out"

 

[Crusader]

I just can't wait for the big ol' HL2 bandwagon to start a rolling and that very first day when everyone is getting online for the first time and experiencing the new world that is Source Engine muliplayer *sigh*... awesomeness..

 

[RoguePsi]

SO IN CONCLUSION.

Iamelephant is almost certainly correct.

Assumptions based off percentages, odds and dates.

-First HL2 RC given at July 30th will not be perfect. Will require many more weeks of bug fixing and testing
-CS:S beta starts around the 28th July runs for 2 weeks. Therefore it is IMPOSSIBLE that HL2 which includes CS:S, will even go gold before mid-August.
-CS:S beta test will probably reveal even more problems which will have to be fixed.

To me, mid to late September looks like a likely gold date. October will be release time.

So, you've managed to jump from mid-August sometime to late-September before going gold. Is that when Valve goes on holiday? Or the whole development team suddenly becomes very lazy?

As far as I see it, once the beta ends and Valve see's how their network system will cope, it won't be long after that when both games go gold. Both are balanced, bug-fixed and otherwise complete, bar a few tweaks here and there and the beta simply tests the demand on Steam and the network code. It won't be the first test of either of these so any fixes required will be minor.

Prediction: Gold status will be reached a week after the beta ends.

 

[Mr-Fusion]

I gave them buffer time. I said there's no chance of anything going gold before mid-August. Give them 1-2 weeks to review and assess the data collected from the CS:S beta test. 2-3 more weeks to test another RC for both games (internally). That easily brings us to September. Since murphy's law applies to all things Valve, add another month and bang!! We're there. :cheers: