Just saw Farenheit 9/11

[DarkStar]

DarkStar: I never said I was sure it was true, I said "I think he might have been drafted". I could really care less about Kerry seeing as I'm not interested in him in the least. Go ahead and do your own research but don't try to beat my argument by pointing out personal flaws, that's a fallacy buddy.

That wasn't meant as a personal attack friend. I was just pointing out that perhaps you're not quite as informed about politics as you claim...

 

[Rico]

You mean by attacking how informed I might be? I can't know everything about everyone can I?

You know, that's a fallacy and there's a link at the bottom of the post that says (and I quote)

"An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. Typically, this fallacy involves two steps. First, an attack against the character of person making the claim, her circumstances, or her actions is made (or the character, circumstances, or actions of the person reporting the claim). Second, this attack is taken to be evidence against the claim or argument the person in question is making (or presenting)."

Had your post come from the original thread where I said such a thing (and I did, and then accepted my mistake in a post further down) it wouldn't have a fallacy, but seeing as you posted here so as to say I didn't know what I was talking about, that makes you the willing creator of a fallacy.

 

[63]

I saw Fahrenheit the day of it's release. Was brilliant. I had a Poutine from New York Fries with me. I spilled it on my lap.

 

[Javert]

I saw Fahrenheit the day of it's release. Was brilliant. I had a Poutine from New York Fries with me. I spilled it on my lap.

That is the most intelligent post I've seen so far...</nosarcasm>

 

[DarkStar]

You mean by attacking how informed I might be? I can't know everything about everyone can I?

You know, that's a fallacy and there's a link at the bottom of the post that says (and I quote)

"An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. Typically, this fallacy involves two steps. First, an attack against the character of person making the claim, her circumstances, or her actions is made (or the character, circumstances, or actions of the person reporting the claim). Second, this attack is taken to be evidence against the claim or argument the person in question is making (or presenting)."

Had your post come from the original thread where I said such a thing (and I did, and then accepted my mistake in a post further down) it wouldn't have a fallacy, but seeing as you posted here so as to say I didn't know what I was talking about, that makes you the willing creator of a fallacy.

Dude, all I'm saying is that you claim to research and research and research this stuff but you got a very basic fact wrong about one of the main players. Anybody who's read even the smallest amount on politics in the last 6 months would know that Kerry wasn't drafted. The media has made a huge issue of it.

 

[DarkStar]

why don't YOU tell me why the Laden family shouldn't have been allowed to leave the country? Do you have certain proof that the members of the family in the US had something to do with the attacks?

You know, you make such a big deal about this bin Ladens leaving the country stuff. Personally I could care less if they were allowed the leave the country or not. The only bin Laden that had anything to do with 911 was Osama.

The overarching issue is crucial though. The United States has been in the pocket of Saudi Arabia for decades. That's the main problem. This is not new. Farenheit 9/11 did not discover this, and it's a point that remains true despite whatever you're opinion is of Michael Moore or his movies.

 

[blahblahblah]

DarkStar - Let's assume you are right that the US has a great relationship with Saudi Arabia. But which way does it go?

The United States in the pocket of Saudi Arabia

Or

Saudi Arabia in the pocket of the United States

There is evidence that either one can be true. Think about that for a minute. Try and look at an issue from both sides of the fence. I think the issues are not as clear cut as you make them out to be.

 

[Rico]

Let them believe what they want to believe, it's clear that they aren't willing to accept the fact that both sides may be right on some parts of the issue. They either want to be 100% right or wrong, and it seems like even being wrong is out of the picture because they avoid logical argument and choose to derail instead.

So be it, it's their choice and I'm not one to critique it. I just don't want to hear whining when the crap hits the fan and when/if they turn into hypocrites bashing the men they helped put into office.

I don't even know why I bother posting in these threads, everywhere I go they all turn out the same way, I guess I'll just avoid these topics in the future.

 

[gh0st]

Kerry willingly enlisted in the Navy in 1965.

I dont want to get involved with the whole Moore aspect of this thread.

But no, he didnt willingly enlist. Kerry approached his draft board, and requested an additional year to study in Paris in lieu of being drafted. After his request was denied, he decided to join the navy. Its well known, and is even in the Harvard Crimson. He also joined in 1966.

 

[DarkStar]

I dont want to get involved with the whole Moore aspect of this thread.

But no, he didnt willingly enlist. Kerry approached his draft board, and requested an additional year to study in Paris in lieu of being drafted. After his request was denied, he decided to join the navy. Its well known, and is even in the Harvard Crimson. He also joined in 1966.

Do you have a link to that info? I can't find anything on it.

It's not mentioned in this Telegraph UK article that talks about Kerry's journey to Vietnam:

http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/02/19/wdean219.xml

And technically, you're still saying he wasn't drafted. Which means he willingly enlisted. It's either one or the other bub. I mean, if he really didn't want to go, why wouldn't he wait to see if he got drafted?

 

[Cybernoid]

If the government was up to anything dodgy (which im sure they are), it'd all be kept secret, well away from people like this, and he wouldnt have anything to make the documentary on.

I'm sorry, but we don't live in the X-Files. Governments are lousy at keeping secrets.

I'd wager that most people who debunk the entire film have attached their fragile egos to the US flag.

 

[oldagerocker]

Im sure if the government wants to keep secrets they can keep secrets, afterall, nobodys knows what happens in area51 do they? thast a very secret military base.

 

[Cybernoid]

Im sure if the government wants to keep secrets they can keep secrets, afterall, nobodys knows what happens in area51 do they? thast a very secret military base.

Granted, Area 51 is a notable exception. No one really knows what the hell they do in there (to my knowledge, at least). But in general, secrets have a habit of getting out because humans are involved.

 

[CyberSh33p]

Granted, Area 51 is a notable exception. No one really knows what the hell they do in there (to my knowledge, at least). But in general, secrets have a habit of getting out because humans are involved.

you wouldn't know how many secrets there are, because they are secret. thats the whole point of em. thats what makes conspiracy theorists' jobs so easy.

 

[Gunner]

you wouldn't know how many secrets there are, because they are secret. thats the whole point of em. thats what makes conspiracy theorists' jobs so easy.

What do you think they're doing there? dissecting little greys? researching anti-gravitational technology?

 

[clarky003]

Granted, Area 51 is a notable exception. No one really knows what the hell they do in there (to my knowledge, at least). But in general, secrets have a habit of getting out because humans are involved.

that depends how much power the group of people in question have, and weither it might be in their best intrests to leak information.. The important stuff they keep to themselves. we can only speculate.

 

[clarky003]

What do you think they're doing there? dissecting little greys? researching anti-gravitational technology?

the latter.

Anti grav,

different propulsion systems , new aircraft.

weapons? maybe.

sorry for the double post.

 

[CptStern]

wasnt this thread about f 9/11? I'm curious to know if anyone who supported the war saw the movie...I'd be interested to hear a review from someone that is opposed to MM who actually saw the movie