just something i was thinking about

[mindless_moder]

iw as thinking about the realtime shaders and the specular maps ...and other stuf about shading and highlighting in the half life 2 engine.
i was thinking that perhaps after the release of half life 2 and the sdk a lot of the mods will relise that their models and skins do not meet the needs of the rendering system as we have well defined highlights and shading within the skins which wont look right ingame.
another thing is that mods are not using the full potential of the engine ie: normal mapping , specular maps , bump mapping technology.

i thot that we shud just discuss these things and bring concerns into the open for the good of mods.

here are a few examples of things im talking about .
http://www.insurgencymod.net/images/weapons/guer/rpk.jpg
http://www.insurgencymod.net/images/players/guer/iraqi01.jpg
now im not trying to single out a mod these things are there in every mod now if u notice the texturing is amazing and well done and would work in any other engine but in half life 2 i supose it wud look ok but they arent up to the potential that the engine can generrate that wud make the models look much more real...notice the deeply shaded wrinkles and the defined highlights on the gun...what do you guys think ?

 

[mindless_moder]

extremely sorry for
1) gramatical errors
2) missing punctuation

 

[softmonkey]

Its a question of style.

Given a flexible rendering system, via shaders, the look is defined by the artist/designer and not the programmer. I fully expect to see mods with varying styles, from toon shading to photo real.

Normal mapping (and the rest) is not a feature, its a by-product of the rendering system used.

Will people use all this power? Maybe, but only a few. I would hope the community sees the sense in releasing the mods quickly, with basic graphics, and regularly update their work. That way, we gamers get more choice and the modders get more input on graphics/gameplay/...

 

[mindless_moder]

"Normal mapping (and the rest) is not a feature"

i thot that normal mapping was a feature because its one of the engines that alows for the normal mapping technology.
isnt it a tool ?

 

[clarky003]

im not entirely sure how it works, but I imagine once its modelled and mapped in a seperate program, you can import it into the engine without doing anything but program an objects properties, but maybe the engine automatically applies specular to normal maps? and ajusts the bump map with in engine settings?

, if not then, I guess the mapped models will have to be tweaked inside the engine, using a tool of somekind.? thats often why its tough to start making loads of model material for the game when you dont have the SDK, , I say its best to get all your material produced when you have a good idea of what you are working with, ..

Looks like the mod im involved in 'Resonance', will be waiting to produce alot of its game material when we have the SDK.

I guess we really dont know how it'll be handled till we get to grips with what weve got .

 

[mindless_moder]

hmm rendered specular maps would be amazing...but i have no idea how the engine wud do that..
but to the best of my knowledge we have to paint our own specular maps...or maybe jsut set specular properties....in any case i believe taht all mods shud make sure thaey have all their psd files backed up so they can remove unwanted shading and highlights.

 

[random.hero]

'mods are not using the full potential of the engine ie: normal mapping , specular maps , bump mapping.'

have you ever tried making normal maps ? it takes a lot of patience and time, and as you said, some of the model may be tweaked and possibly re-made, in which case, normal maps would have been useless or would have to be re-made. i think once a mod gets down the basics of coding and all that, and have everything intergrated, thats when higher spec models should be made to use normal maps.

about the bumps and specs, well every mod should be using them, the do add a lot of identity and give a real sense of reality when it comes to scratches, dents and other things. you say that those models dont have them, but you can be sure. for that, you have to see how the skin and model reacts to a moving light source ( or in-game ). only then, can you see how realistic and well-made a model is.

PS. with all these games like HL2, Doom III and Unreal 3, its getting harder and harder for us modders to keep up with the standards people expect and technology being used...normal mapping being the biggest change atm.

 

[softmonkey]

The technical specifics aren't important. Normal mapping is a pixel shader in exactly the same way as something like toon shading is. That's the whole point of the shader demo at E3 '03 (the one with the glass cubes).

Yes, HL2's great graphics owe a lot to normal mapping, and as such these techniques will be easy to use/create. But, for those who really want to take advantage of the technology there is so much more you can do... motion blur, depth of field, soft shadows...

 

[mindless_moder]

well u can actually tell people who are modding with normal mapping in mine wud not have textured the wrinkles...i just want modders to be aware so that they dont have to redo a whole lot of tihngs .
so far they can make specular maps ..reflection maps..displacment and bump maps and opacity maps without the sdk.

 

[ankalar]

so far they can make specular maps ..reflection maps..displacment and bump maps and opacity maps without the sdk.

People can make any shader map they want without the SDK...also, it's not as easy as you think to make all these things.

 

[simon]

once we get our mod running with basic weapons/characters etc i think the important thing is to get the gameplat correct 1st, when you start having a decent mod you can always upgrade the models 1 by 1 imHo, and it's not like we have the time to model character high rez and then start making normal maps out of them, only time will tell i think

i do have one question:
how does one make "shaders" for weapons, cause that's something we would like to do though

thanks

 

[The Dark Elf]

and it's not like we have the time to model character high rez and then start making normal maps out of them, only time will tell i think

Why wouldn't you have the time? You've all the time in the world, unless your trying to be the first mod out of the door, which is a bad thing as the first mods, no matter what they are WILL come under suspicion for obvious reasons, especially if they are really quick. You shouldn't be rushing, you should take your time.

 

[random.hero]

no Fen, hes saying it takes a long time to make a detailed high poly model and then normal map it onto the low poly one. and then even longer to do that for a whole set of player models. not that hes trying to rush the mod half unfinished to be the first released mod.

 

[mindless_moder]

if u wnt to make shaders all u have to do is explore all the different types of maps and stuff in max
such as raytrace materials and others and use the specular and bumpa mapping in the right way and create a material the material can then be used as a shader in half life 2.
it isnt too hard to make specular and bump maps ....making bump maps for things like scratches , wrinkles etc is verry easy if u havve it in ur texture layers.