Kerry being beaten like a gong.

[Rupertvdb]

Reading some of the latest articles on the presidential election makes me a bit sad, i'm from the UK so I may not get the best impression but it seems that Kerry really can't pull his finger out. The last poll from Time shows Dubbya with an 11 point lead!

Funnily enough in time it also reassures that winning from this position is possible citing the last election when another democrat, by the name of Gore managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory against...well, your reigning Chief of Staff.

The campaign seems disorganised, unable to defend itself and totally incompetent when it comes to sticking the mud to the Republicans when they are obviously in the wrong.

They have managed to focus all their energy into a couple of issues, which have gone against them through poor management of crises, they have made sweeping no brainer points of general issues that do nothing to sway any of the voters and have turned possible gold mines into nothing more than a series of trenches (excuse the mixed metaphors) here i am of course referring to the fact that the ongoing wars are not being resolved, are costing the taxpayers billions and are being lied about.

Cheny gets away with comparing a vote for Kerry to a vote for terrorism and attacks on the president (regarding coke use at Camp David) have been shot down in flames.

At this rate Bush will not only get voted into the White House (which i think is in all likelihood going to happen) but he will win with a landslide.

Anyways, what say you?

 

[Korgoth]

Not if my vote counts.
And since no one has ever "polled" me, I could say maybe just maybe, there is a few thousand/million more like me.

 

[CptStern]

if bush wins, the world loses

 

[Rupertvdb]

Not if my vote counts.
And since no one has ever "polled" me, I could say maybe just maybe, there is a few thousand/million more like me.

...That is not an arguement, a poll is designed to get a balanced cross section of the populous, because you were consulted does not mean it is wrong, i realised polls cannot ever be completely accurate, but they can give an impression of the political climate that is meaningful. There may be a few million more like you, however, there are probably more millions who are not like you.

 

[Sgt_Shellback]

Reading some of the latest articles on the presidential election makes me a bit sad, i'm from the UK so I may not get the best impression but it seems that Kerry really can't pull his finger out. The last poll from Time shows Dubbya with an 11 point lead!

Yeap the Dems have really blown it.. Simply by fielding Kerry in the first place when there was to many questions about him. The Dems could have put a number of better candidates up for the running . I think Kerry bought the nomination with his ketchup money because most dems are looking at Hillary in 08

Funnily enough in time it also reassures that winning from this position is possible citing the last election when another democrat, by the name of Gore managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory against...well, your reigning Chief of Staff.

The campaign seems disorganised, unable to defend itself and totally incompetent when it comes to sticking the mud to the Republicans when they are obviously in the wrong.

The Dems spent 60 Million dollars to the GOP's 6 million dollars in 527 ads (Mud slinging ads)... Polls show the American public didn't buy it.

They have managed to focus all their energy into a couple of issues, which have gone against them through poor management of crises, they have made sweeping no brainer points of general issues that do nothing to sway any of the voters and have turned possible gold mines into nothing more than a series of trenches (excuse the mixed metaphors) here i am of course referring to the fact that the ongoing wars are not being resolved, are costing the taxpayers billions and are being lied about.

Kerry started his campaign by show caseing his Vietnam Service... Big mistake. His campaign manager should have been fired for that lunacy.

Cheny gets away with comparing a vote for Kerry to a vote for terrorism and attacks on the president (regarding coke use at Camp David) have been shot down in flames.

Terrorism is a fair topic in this election... More so than Vietnam by a long shot. Kerry might have had a chance of winning had he come out and said there would be less terrorism at home if he were president. But he doesn't speak much if any about Iraq or Terrorism... Another bad move in the Kerry campaign... The GOP is talking current events. Kerry is talking the 60's. Voters have seen his ad with him jumping off the boat in Vietnam enough to make us puke.

At this rate Bush will not only get voted into the White House (which i think is in all likelihood going to happen) but he will win with a landslide.

Anyways, what say you?

I think you're right... There are some serious issues that point that way too.

Bush lowered taxes. Kerry has promised to raise taxes. Usually a candidate who intends to raise taxes simply refrains from saying anything about taxes because promising to raise them is bound to lose voters

Bush is against gay marriage and Kerry is for it. I know most of the people who'll read this here are liberal in this area but the fact is most American voters are slightly conservative Christians.

Bush supports the 2nd Ammendment. Kerry is for gun control... Again irregardless of what people on HalfLife2.com might think the NRA in the US has millions of voters at their disposal who they are pushing towards Bush.

Usually when a candiadate intends to piss off large groups of the American public they are quiet about those subjects but with Gun Control, Gay Marriage, and Taxes Kerry has been singing it. The result is that he's not getting those voters.

Bush also gained the vote of the AARP by issuing the prescription drug plan for seniors. This is a very large group of loyal voters who will not miss election day.

Bush also gained some moderates by authorizing stem cell research. Any hit that he recieves from conservative christians in this area is going to be small because most Americans don't even know what stem cells are. Plus Bush has been keeping mostly quiet about it and Kerry's campaign failed to put a spot light on it. For the life of me I don't know why. Dumb.

Lastly Kerry's support with his own party is somewhat questionable. It seems like they've already got their eye on 08 with Hillary and if Kerry gets elected their plans would be blown. I don't think there's any real undercutting going on except for Zell Miller but I don't think they're pushing as hard for Kerry as they could.

 

[Korgoth]

...That is not an arguement, a poll is designed to get a balanced cross section of the populous, because you were consulted does not mean it is wrong, i realised polls cannot ever be completely accurate, but they can give an impression of the political climate that is meaningful. There may be a few million more like you, however, there are probably more millions who are not like you.

First off, it wasn't meant as an argument, second, I never accused the poll of being wrong.

I'll add, no, polls aren't ever accurate %100. Any number of things can happen to make the polls moot, and kerry is actually leading by some 7 points in a few battle ground states, it all just depends on what happens in november.

 

[Rupertvdb]

First off, it wasn't meant as an argument, second, I never accused the poll of being wrong.

I'll add, no, polls aren't ever accurate %100. Any number of things can happen to make the polls moot, and kerry is actually leading by some 7 points in a few battle ground states, it all just depends on what happens in november.

I didn't say you did bud, no worries there, i was just emphasising the point that polls give good indications despite the fact they don't speak for everyone.

General good points

Thanks for the run down, you expanded on everything i said with some good facts, cheers!

I hope someone can argue for Kerry winning soon because otherwise this thread will die, it is kind of worrying that people aren't holding out much hope.

 

[CptStern]

I find it mind boggling that a candidate who has a terrible enviromental record, invades a country on faulty pretenses, supports the union of church and state, has bloated the deficit to an all time high, is against abortion, same sex marriage, butchered healthcare, attacks on civil liberties etc is in the lead. I'm at a loss as to why anyone would want him as the next US president: he's done a horrible job so far ...with is record and platforms he wouldnt even be in the top 3 had he been seeking election in canada

 

[alehm]

I would agree CptStern especially when you have government officials like this:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/americas/08/28/canada.killerwhale.ap/index.html

A "playful" killer whale who likes to frolic alongside fishermen has damaged three boats in separate incidents in recent weeks.

Now Canadian officials ......... that believes the animal is the reincarnation of its late chief are working on a plan to protect both Luna and humans. Officials hope to eventually reunite him with his pod of U.S. relatives.

 

[DiSTuRbEd]

It seems like they've already got their eye on 08 with Hillary and if Kerry gets elected their plans would be blown.

So true, Hillary obviously needed another 4 years to get things together and then run, cause she would obviously lose to Bush, I really want to see what republicans have up their sleeves for 08 cause its going to be hard to beat Hillary.

 

[CptStern]

I would agree CptStern especially when you have government officials like this:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/americas/08/28/canada.killerwhale.ap/index.html

ummmmmm you do know whaling is illegal right? only certain native communities can hunt whales. The US solution would have been to hunt every last one down to extinction because they may sooner or later attack someone, somewhere at sometime

 

[Rupertvdb]

that's just weird....

But yeah, it would seem America is willing to vote in a president that is not doing America, both short term and long term, all that much good. For the occasional positive there is a plethora of negative actions by the incumbent and yet the American people maintain support for him.

This shows how badly the Kerry campaign is going, actually it shows how average the campaign is and how devious and misleading the Bush campaign is.

 

[Sgt_Shellback]

So true, Hillary obviously needed another 4 years to get things together and then run, cause she would obviously lose to Bush, I really want to see what republicans have up their sleeves for 08 cause its going to be hard to beat Hillary.

I agree.... There's been some head nodding at Rudi...

It's not that she needs another four years or that she'd obviously lose to Bush so much as the incubent always has an advantage. If Bush wins now the field will be wide open in 08. (No advantage to either side) If Kerry wins now she can't run in 08 unless Kerry gets himslef impeached.

It'll be interesting if it is Hillary and Rudi. Like you said these two are a cut above what we have now. As a Senator Hillary's voting record will be wide open to scrutiny. As Mayor of NYC Rudi's position on issues wont be as clear.

I can't in anyway see Cheney running BTW.

 

[Korgoth]

I hope hillary doesn't run, i'd much rather see obama before hillary in office

And I haven't lost hope in my candidate. I actually watch his speeches and debates, and try and stay current with his views. I have yet to actually see this ad of him jumping off the boat shellback keeps referring to but I do however want to puke everytime i see the swift boat ads, over, and over, and over....

In November we will see what happens. Until then pay no attention to polls, or surveys. It seems as though no one got all "hopeless" when bush was behind in the polls before the RNC. Whats the difference?

I'm waiting for the debates, that is, if bush doesn't try and avoid them. Kerry asked him to debate once a week until the election but was turned down. I'm ready to see them go head to head. Should be interesting.

 

[Korgoth]

I agree.... There's been some head nodding at Rudi...

It's not that she needs another four years or that she'd obviously lose to Bush so much as the incubent always has an advantage. If Bush wins now the field will be wide open in 08. (No advantage to either side) If Kerry wins now she can't run in 08 unless Kerry gets himslef impeached.

It'll be interesting if it is Hillary and Rudi. Like you said these two are a cut above what we have now. As a Senator Hillary's voting record will be wide open to scrutiny. As Mayor of NYC Rudi's position on issues wont be as clear.

I can't in anyway see Cheney running BTW.

I think that if cheney tried to run on his own merit he would lose so horrible it would cause him to have another heart attack.

 

[Sgt_Shellback]

I hope hillary doesn't run, i'd much rather see obama before hillary in office

And I haven't lost hope in my candidate. I actually watch his speeches and debates, and try and stay current with his views. I have yet to actually see this ad of him jumping off the boat shellback keeps referring to but I do however want to puke everytime i see the swift boat ads, over, and over, and over....

In November we will see what happens. Until then pay no attention to polls, or surveys. It seems as though no one got all "hopeless" when bush was behind in the polls before the RNC. Whats the difference?

I'm waiting for the debates, that is, if bush doesn't try and avoid them. Kerry asked him to debate once a week until the election but was turned down. I'm ready to see them go head to head. Should be interesting.

I live in a swing state so we've been hammered with them. Personally I'm getting sick of our city and towns shutting down whenever either candidate comes to visit.

The GOP letting Cheney run in 08 would be a blunder as big as the DNC putting up Kerry this year... You and I know that but idiocy in politics is nothing new.

 

[Rupertvdb]

That's the thing it wouldn't be. A debate would be a doctored affair that wouldn't really demonstrate anything that intelligent people already didn't know. People did get hopeless when Bush was behind i recall lots of coverage expressing democratic longetivity, however, things happened and Bush won, he has a very mean campaign machine.

Cheney not running? I see no reason for him not to but i don't think he could win, or the American people wanting him to win, he is worse than Bush.

It's true but ridiculous that the Democrats aren't hoping for an 04 victory. Four more years is not what America needs.

 

[alehm]

ummmmmm you do know whaling is illegal right? only certain native communities can hunt whales. The US solution would have been to hunt every last one down to extinction because they may sooner or later attack someone, somewhere at sometime

Ummmm you missed the point of Canadian officials believing the whale is a reincarnated Indian chief. Your tirade about whaling was an entertaining piece. You never dissapoint.

 

[Rupertvdb]

I don't think that really matters Alehm...in fact it is the American Indians who think that and the officials are kindly respecting their beliefs.

 

[blahblahblah]

First off, it wasn't meant as an argument, second, I never accused the poll of being wrong.

I'll add, no, polls aren't ever accurate %100. Any number of things can happen to make the polls moot, and kerry is actually leading by some 7 points in a few battle ground states, it all just depends on what happens in november.

They are accurate if you know how to assign them a proper context. I'm not teaching you guys statistics right now, but they can be accurate. Right now, Bush has a minor lead (which is less than what you may have heard) because of statistical variations. Traditional these types of leads usually close up by October 1 if it is a close election.

I find it mind boggling that a candidate who has a terrible enviromental record, invades a country on faulty pretenses, supports the union of church and state, has bloated the deficit to an all time high, is against abortion, same sex marriage, butchered healthcare, attacks on civil liberties etc is in the lead. I'm at a loss as to why anyone would want him as the next US president: he's done a horrible job so far ...with is record and platforms he wouldnt even be in the top 3 had he been seeking election in canada

I'll give you 1. Can debate number 2. I disagree with you on 3. Support you on 4 with a minor debate. I disagree with you on 5. I disagree with you on 6. I disagree with you on 7 (current healthcare situation is a direct results of current economic implications, not government missteps. If government did provide healthcare to the masses, it would be like putting a band-aid over a big wound. It wouldn't fix the problem of spiraling health care costs /rant). I moderately disagree wtih you on 8.

Wait a minute. Its not as clear cut as you think when somebody has a different point of view on things, is it?

 

[CptStern]

Ummmm you missed the point of Canadian officials believing the whale is a reincarnated Indian chief. Your tirade about whaling was an entertaining piece. You never dissapoint.

where? where does it say the canadian government believed that ...that's just ludicrous. Maybe you misinterpreted them as saying they respect the native people's belief system

pick another country, canada has very little to complain about ..even as canadians we're stumped as to what we could make better (A big wall running along the 49th parallel would be a good start :E )

 

[alehm]

LOL my bad.

 

[lePobz]

Why do political candidates tour the country to get more votes? Does it really make people change their views?

"Oh look, Bush is in our town at a hospital full of sick kids... let's vote for him instead of Kerry now"

Would you make Adolf Hitler a cup of tea if he were on your doorstep?

I just don't see the logic in changing your political views just because the candidate 'gets around' a lot. Stupidity if you ask me.

 

[Sgt_Shellback]

Why do political candidates tour the country to get more votes? Does it really make people change their views?

"Oh look, Bush is in our town at a hospital full of sick kids... let's vote for him instead of Kerry now"

Would you make Adolf Hitler a cup of tea if he were on your doorstep?

I just don't see the logic in changing your political views just because the candidate 'gets around' a lot. Stupidity if you ask me.

There are a lot of people who are undecided that need to hear what the candidates think... A better source than the tabloids or the internet don't you think?

 

[lePobz]

Maybe, but them candidates say anything to get votes ... I'd vote Kerry simply because it'd be pretty hard to be worse than Bush.

 

[Foxtrot]

if bush wins, the world loses

If Bush loses, the terrorists win.

 

[lePobz]

If Bush loses, the terrorists win.

Newsflash: There are no terrorists :|

 

[Sgt_Shellback]

Maybe, but them candidates say anything to get votes ... I'd vote Kerry simply because it'd be pretty hard to be worse than Bush.

You could be worse than Bush if you promised to raise taxes, legalize gay marriage, piss on the bill of rights, cut funding to the military, and let the UN decide the course of the Country. Like Kerry has.

 

[lePobz]

Fix everything that's wrong with America you mean, then...

 

[DiSTuRbEd]

Maybe, but them candidates say anything to get votes ... I'd vote Kerry simply because it'd be pretty hard to be worse than Bush.

After you saying that, I can now understand you know nothing about either of the canidates, step off.

 

[No Limit]

You have to understand the 2 polls with Bush up 11 points are misleading, in reality Bush is only up by about 1 point. You can read MMFA here http://mediamatters.org/items/200409090001 or for a non partisan view you can see the polls at http://www.rasmussenreports.com/Presidential_Tracking_Poll.htm .

There have been A LOT more 527s against Bush this election year but there is a good reason for it. Conservatives pretty much run the radio and have huge media support (FOX anybody?). Thanks to the internet this is changing and in my opinion this is very good, we needs these types of things balanced.

Currently it is way too close to call who will win the election. The real turning point will be when the debates come around.

 

[lePobz]

I'll step off, only to prevent another flame war... Your country has issues, the scary thing is that only a tiny percentage of your population knows the score.

OK, i'm done. Bye.

 

[DiSTuRbEd]

I'll step off, only to prevent another flame war... Your country has issues, the scary thing is that only a tiny percentage of your population knows the score.

OK, i'm done. Bye.

Thank you. :thumbs:

 

[No Limit]

I'll step off, only to prevent another flame war... Your country has issues, the scary thing is that only a tiny percentage of your population knows the score.

OK, i'm done. Bye.

I ****ing love how people that don't even live here want to tell us how they know more about this country then we do :upstare:. News flash, you don't know shit. Sorry to be flaming but people like these piss me off.

 

[HatRabit]

If Bush loses, the terrorists win.

Bush is exactly the sort of person the terrorists want running America. If he wins, the terrorists win.

and imo it really looks like he will.


:frown:

 

[No Limit]

If Bush loses, the terrorists win.

This is the biggest conservative BS ever. Let me guess, you are one of the people that thinks invading Iraq has made the US safer?

 

[PvtRyan]

This is the biggest conservative BS ever. Let me guess, you are one of the people that thinks invading Iraq has made the US safer?

If you care about your feeeeemmmmlyyyy and Amerrrrrrca then you vote George Dubbaya Bush,

 

[No Limit]

If you care about your feeeeemmmmlyyyy and Amerrrrrrca then you vote George Dubbaya Bush,

Fo shizzle :upstare:

 

[Sgt_Shellback]

I vote for a no politics Thrusday... Every week at HL2.com. Ban anyone who brings it up until the next Thrusday. :brows:

 

[Foxtrot]

This is the biggest conservative BS ever. Let me guess, you are one of the people that thinks invading Iraq has made the US safer?

The only reason I said it was because of what Stern said, he said somthing dumb so he gets a dumb response.