King of Deathmatch: Quake 3 or UT?

[Shamrock]

I've never played either! Go me!

I selected other.

Barbie Dreamland DM

 

[repiV]

So you're asking people that generally don't play competitively about the relative merits of games that you only judge on their competitive merit? Interesting choice there.

I'm not asking anyone anything - I didn't start the thread.
Nor was I aware that I'm not entitled to my own set of criteria from which to draw a conclusion because few people here use the same criteria.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

There's nothing wrong with using your own criteria, but yours certainly take you to some funny places.

 

[Asuka]

Half-Life Deathmatch!

 

[repiV]

There's nothing wrong with using your own criteria, but yours certainly take you to some funny places.

Seems perfectly logical to judge a game based on competition by its competitive merit to me.

 

[Lt. Drebin]

No, I think TFC is an abomination because it's slow, dull and the engine is terrible.

You sir are one in a million.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

I was referring more to your assertion that the Q3 modding scene surpassed that of HL. From your narrow focus of mods that don't really change anything major, sure.

 

[Lt. Drebin]

Plus the fact that I've actually given reasons why Q3 is a superior game.

Hang on...all I've seen is that you prefer the mods and you feel Q3 is far more competetive. You have not given "several" reasons. So which is it? Was Quake 3 really the better game? Or did it simply have an abundance of mods you prefered? And an added dose of competetive spirit...

You know...that may be a false positive. If people have to go out and create a shit load of variations on the game it could simply mean that the original wasn't overly good to begin with. Hell, you yourself admited that no one even touched Quake 3 a few years after release. I know I played UT for several years.

 

[ComradeBadger]

No amount of modding will ever make HLDM or HLCTF a good game. It always was and always will be terrible.

HLDM is the daddy of deathmatch games, it requires the most skill to play.. there's a reason why a lot of the top pro gamers started out on HLDM - it's the one game you can't pick up and be good at right away, it's got a fantastically high learning curve - bunnyhopping/gaussjumping etc.

Brilliant.
As a multiplayer experience it's never been bettered.

 

[repiV]

You sir are one in a million.

Hardly. The vast majority of people who've ever played the original TF or Q3F hold the exact same sentiment.

I was referring more to your assertion that the Q3 modding scene surpassed that of HL. From your narrow focus of mods that don't really change anything major, sure.

I see. The HL modding scene is inherently different, I'm not even sure comparison is appropriate. The only competitive mod of any real worth it's turned out is CS, and even that's debatable.
Like I said, these are all TCs. The actual game of HLDM is beyond dreadful.

Hang on...all I've seen is that you prefer the mods and you feel Q3 is far more competetive. You have not given "several" reasons. So which is it? Was Quake 3 really the better game? Or did it simply have an abundance of mods you prefered? And an added dose of competetive spirit...

OK:

#1 Quake 3 has near-perfect weapon balance. No game either before or since has been able to create such a well tuned, perfectly balanced set of weaponry.
UT has terrible weapon balance, and the starting weapon is far too powerful. It turns the game into something of a spamfest.
#2 Quake 3 is a much faster, and therefore more skilful game.
#3 The movement is more skilful - rather than doubletapping at appropriate moments to get around quickly, Q3 movement is complicated and full of subtle nuances. It takes years to master, and really separates the wheat from the chaff.
#4 Unlike UT, Quake 3 does not have redundant weapons. Redundant weapons means less emphasis on controlling particular weapons in TDM, and therefore UT is a less tactical game.
#5 Q3 has better netcode and a better engine. It runs more smoothly and just feels right - you can rely on utterly precise reactions from the game, it will do what you expect, every time.
#6 Q3 is much more tweakable.
#7 The armour system is much more tactical - you can stack armours, putting more emphasis on map control. Armour also does not provide you invulnerability from health damage, unlike in UT. This also reduces the depth of the game.
#8 Q3 doesn't have stupid, useless pickups like jump boots.

Q3 strips away all the crap and just leaves you with the bare bones. UT is full of pointless, redundant or ridiculous gimmicks that detract from the gameplay. It requires considerably more skill to play than UT, and it has a higher, longer learning curve.

You know...that may be a false positive. If people have to go out and create a shit load of variations on the game it could simply mean that the original wasn't overly good to begin with. Hell, you yourself admited that no one even touched Quake 3 a few years after release. I know I played UT for several years.

Loads of people touched Quake 3 a few years after release - and it's still more popular than all the UT games put together. The major Q3 mods don't alter the basic gameplay in any major way, they make a raft of minor tweaks. It's still the same Q3 under all of them.
OSP adds competitive functionality (brightskins, health-dependent hitsounds, better netcode, admin functions, modified maps etc.).
CPMA does much the same, except it modifies the movement and weapon balance. It's a much, much faster game - rather like the original Quake.
Threewave is a CTF mod - it brings fully-featured CTF to Q3, with loads of great maps aswell. The underlying gameplay is identical.
Rocket Arena 3 is just Quake III with no pickups, all weapons, small arenas and one life - fight to the death.

Those are the main ones, really. UT died long before Q3 was still burning.

 

[repiV]

HLDM is the daddy of deathmatch games, it requires the most skill to play.. there's a reason why a lot of the top pro gamers started out on HLDM - it's the one game you can't pick up and be good at right away, it's got a fantastically high learning curve - bunnyhopping/gaussjumping etc.

Brilliant.
As a multiplayer experience it's never been bettered.

What top pro gamers? I can assure you that Fatality never played HLDM.

The weakest aspect of Halflife was the combat, but to turn that into a multiplayer game? Yuk.

 

[Deleted member 56031]

UT gets my vote on this one.

 

[Lt. Drebin]

Hardly. The vast majority of people who've ever played the original TF or Q3F hold the exact same sentiment..

Disputed by the shear amount of people that still play the original TFC as well as TF2.

OK:

#1 Quake 3 has near-perfect weapon balance. No game either before or since has been able to create such a well tuned, perfectly balanced set of weaponry.
UT has terrible weapon balance, and the starting weapon is far too powerful. It turns the game into something of a spamfest.
#2 Quake 3 is a much faster, and therefore more skilful game.
#3 The movement is more skilful - rather than doubletapping at appropriate moments to get around quickly, Q3 movement is complicated and full of subtle nuances. It takes years to master, and really separates the wheat from the chaff.
#4 Unlike UT, Quake 3 does not have redundant weapons. Redundant weapons means less emphasis on controlling particular weapons in TDM, and therefore UT is a less tactical game.
#5 Q3 has better netcode and a better engine. It runs more smoothly and just feels right - you can rely on utterly precise reactions from the game, it will do what you expect, every time.
#6 Q3 is much more tweakable.
#7 The armour system is much more tactical - you can stack armours, putting more emphasis on map control. Armour also does not provide you invulnerability from health damage, unlike in UT. This also reduces the depth of the game.
#8 Q3 doesn't have stupid, useless pickups like jump boots.

Q3 strips away all the crap and just leaves you with the bare bones. UT is full of pointless, redundant or ridiculous gimmicks that detract from the gameplay. It requires considerably more skill to play than UT, and it has a higher, longer learning curve.

Wow, a much better opinion than just telling people their wrong. I don't agree with most of those, particularly the weaponry comment...there's absolutly NOTHING new about Q3...the weapons in UT at least seemed like someone had an original thought. But I can see why someone may prefer one over the other. Further UT absolutly SMOKES Quake 3 in level design.

Loads of people touched Quake 3 a few years after release - and it's still more popular than all the UT games put together.

Uhh...source. Do you have to question why there hasn't been another arena-based Quake since? Why has there been umpteen sequels to the original UT. Because it's insanely popular and people called for more...still.

The major Q3 mods don't alter the basic gameplay in any major way, they make a raft of minor tweaks. It's still the same Q3 under all of them. OSP adds competitive functionality (brightskins, health-dependent hitsounds, better netcode, admin functions, modified maps etc.).CPMA does much the same, except it modifies the movement and weapon balance. It's a much, much faster game - rather like the original Quake.Threewave is a CTF mod - it brings fully-featured CTF to Q3, with loads of great maps aswell. The underlying gameplay is identical.
Rocket Arena 3 is just Quake III with no pickups, all weapons, small arenas and one life - fight to the death.

That's all great. Shall I gather the UT mods that were exactly the same. By the way...you still haven't commented on the undeniable game options people were provided straight out of the box with UT...without relying on the mod community.

Those are the main ones, really. UT died long before Q3 was still burning.

Again, are you talking about the mod scene or the original game?? You just said two pages ago that no one played Quake 3 a few years after release. If that's the case, I assure you you are wrong.

 

[repiV]

Disputed by the shear amount of people that still play the original TFC as well as TF2.

TF was wildly popular years before TFC was even a concept. Most of the people who play TFC probably have no idea there was even a TF that preceded it.
TFC and TF2 are a total departure from what TF was all about. Back in the days before mainstreaming drowned such thoughts, TFC was always considered to be TF for n00bs. Because, well, it is.

Wow, a much better opinion than just telling people their wrong. I don't agree with most of those, particularly the weaponry comment...there's absolutly NOTHING new about Q3...the weapons in UT at least seemed like someone had an original thought.

Uh, what?
I never said there was anything new about Q3. That's the whole point. Q3 refined the existing concepts to perfection, while UT toyed with fancy gimmicks that don't work so well in practice.
The weapons in UT are fancy and original yes, so what? They suck. The weapon balance is almost game-breakingly bad.

But I can see why someone may prefer one over the other. Further UT absolutly SMOKES Quake 3 in level design.

If that's the case, then why are UT servers full of Q3 remakes?
I think you mean to say that UT maps are more artistically interesting or whatever, which is true. But that doesn't mean the layouts are any good.

Uhh...source.

Try Gamespy or something.

Do you have to question why there hasn't been another arena-based Quake since? Why has there been umpteen sequels to the original UT. Because it's insanely popular and people called for more...still.

Quake 3 didn't need umpteen sequels, because everyone was still playing Quake 3. Releasing new games unnecessarily just serves to divide the community. Also, they spent five years developing Doom 3, so they didn't have time for sequels. Quake IV was actually developed by Raven Software, under guidance from id.
UT2003 was dead within six months, UT2004 was dead within a year. Several months after UT2004's release, it had less players than Quake 3, a five year old game - and most of those players were playing Onslaught. Go figure.
Quake 4's multiplayer was basically a replica of Quake 3. Problem was, it wasn't quite as good as Quake 3, and it was full of bugs that didn't get fixed until it was too late. It couldn't possibly hope to live up to Q3 so it didn't take off in the same way - though it still had a decent enough community for a few years, moreso than any of the UT sequels managed.
Incidentally, id's next release will be Quake Zero - a free version of Q3. Something of a testament to its enduring appeal.
Quake Five is also in the works - which will be a true sequel to Q3.

That's all great. Shall I gather the UT mods that were exactly the same.

Noone played them. Rocket Arena UT sucked.

By the way...you still haven't commented on the undeniable game options people were provided straight out of the box with UT...without relying on the mod community.

Yes I have - I said that UT is quite possibly a better game than Q3 out of the box. Read, please.

Again, are you talking about the mod scene or the original game?? You just said two pages ago that no one played Quake 3 a few years after release. If that's the case, I assure you you are wrong.

With Quake 3, the mod scene IS the original game. They are one and the same. It has always been the way with Quake games, they are platforms to be modded.
We were all playing modded versions of Quake IV within three weeks of release!

 

[Darkside55]

I never liked the "feel" of Quake 3. The movement, the way the weapons handled. In my mind the only thing Quake 3 had over UT was frenetic pace, but that doesn't make it the better deathmatch game.

I had a lot more fun with UT. Having bought both of them around the same time and playing them both extensively, eventually I stopped playing Q3 altogether and focused on UT.

TFC is an abomination

...I'll kill you, son.

I'll KILL you.

You just insulted f*cking ten years of my life right there. We're enemies now. I'm serious.

 

[repiV]

I never liked the "feel" of Quake 3. The movement, the way the weapons handled. In my mind the only thing Quake 3 had over UT was frenetic pace, but that doesn't make it the better deathmatch game.

I had a lot more fun with UT. Having bought both of them around the same time and playing them both extensively, eventually I stopped playing Q3 altogether and focused on UT.

For me it was the other way around. I did play UT2004 for a year too, to me it's the closest any game has ever come to equalling Q3 - except for Q4, but that's just like a second-rate copy of Q3 so it doesn't really count.

...I'll kill you, son.

I'll KILL you.

You just insulted f*cking ten years of my life right there. We're enemies now. I'm serious.

I'll be waiting...with a gun and a pack of sandwiches. And nothing.

 

[Tagaziel]

Unreal Tournament, definitely. Quake 3 Arena and it's relatives are dull and too twitch-based for me.

Besides, Assault, Domination and lately Warfare are priceless and trample the inherently dull TDM.

 

[Crushenator 500]

Bemoan Unreal Tournament and HLDM all you want for not being competetive, but I think counter strike is the clear winner here, and it came out around the same time as ut/q3 did

 

[Darkside55]

For me it was the other way around. I did play UT2004 for a year too, to me it's the closest any game has ever come to equalling Q3 - except for Q4, but that's just like a second-rate copy of Q3 so it doesn't really count.

Interestingly enough, I felt UT2k4 was rather gimmicky compared to UT. I mean, I ended up playing all the other modes rather than straight deathmatch, and while the vehicles and assaulting enemy bases was fun, for some reason I didn't enjoy the deathmatch as much as the original. Can't really say why that is.

I'll be waiting...with a gun and a pack of sandwiches. And nothing.

I'm coming. I'm feigning death in your area, watching you, waiting for the right moment when you let your guard down. Then I'll strike at you like a viper!

 

[Lt. Drebin]

Yes I have - I said that UT is quite possibly a better game than Q3 out of the box. Read, please.

Oh, so then we're done. Cool. That's what I thought the thread was about in the first place.

But, yeah...Quake 3 had better mods.

 

[ericms]

I'll be waiting...with a gun and a pack of sandwiches. And nothing.

Nothing
Nothing
Nothing

 

[Gorgon]

i CHOOSE q3 over UT,

Q3 = pure skills game
UT = any noob can play it and score....

 

[repiV]

Bemoan Unreal Tournament and HLDM all you want for not being competetive, but I think counter strike is the clear winner here, and it came out around the same time as ut/q3 did

CS is the king of deathmatch?

Sure you don't want one last chance to revise that statement?

Interestingly enough, I felt UT2k4 was rather gimmicky compared to UT. I mean, I ended up playing all the other modes rather than straight deathmatch, and while the vehicles and assaulting enemy bases was fun, for some reason I didn't enjoy the deathmatch as much as the original. Can't really say why that is.

I think UT2003 and 2004 had a decidely Quake 3 feel about them. Intentional, probably. Quite a few Q3rs played these games.
Not as minimalist as Q3 by any means, but UT2004 had well balanced weapons, fast movement and most of the skill-free crap from UT was culled. The starting weapon is as weak as it should be, you can't stack up 6 rockets like you could in UT (that was just moronic), the shock combo radius is much more reasonable, the minigun isn't a rapid-fire BFG anymore, no Ripper, some pretty damn good map design...
And I must admit to being addicted to AS-Convoy. Could just play that over and over and over again...

UT3 is a big step backwards IMO. It's slow and unbalanced, just like the original game. More so in fact, the shock combo makes all other weapons redundant. And it doesn't have any of the things going for it that the original game did, like cool maps.

I'm coming. I'm feigning death in your area, watching you, waiting for the right moment when you let your guard down. Then I'll strike at you like a viper!

I'm a backwards viper - it will be a tough match.

Oh, so then we're done. Cool. That's what I thought the thread was about in the first place.

But, yeah...Quake 3 had better mods.

Well like I said, to me Quake games and mods go hand in hand. It's meaningless to judge a Quake game based on its boxed state because they are modding platforms in themselves - I think id understood the community when they created Q3. Team Arena, the expansion pack, was received poorly because people didn't want to pay for something they could get for free. I thought TA was great though, didn't last long sadly.
But yeah, for six months to a year following Q3s release, UT was better.

 

[Tagaziel]

I think UT2003 and 2004 had a decidely Quake 3 feel about them. Intentional, probably. Quite a few Q3rs played these games.
Not as minimalist as Q3 by any means, but UT2004 had well balanced weapons, fast movement and most of the skill-free crap from UT was culled. The starting weapon is as weak as it should be, you can't stack up 6 rockets like you could in UT (that was just moronic), the shock combo radius is much more reasonable, the minigun isn't a rapid-fire BFG anymore, no Ripper, some pretty damn good map design...
And I must admit to being addicted to AS-Convoy. Could just play that over and over and over again...

I prefer a game with strong weapons that give you a fighting chance no matter what enemy's weapon you face (with varying degrees of difficulty) instead of a game that forces you to run around like a headless chicken frantically searching for a gun that does more than signal the enemy that he can get a free frag.

UT FTW.

 

[Crushenator 500]

CS is the king of deathmatch?

Sure you don't want one last chance to revise that statement?

Heh I fergot this was just deathmatch we were talking

CS is still the winner though if you're talking multiplayer in general

 

[repiV]

I prefer a game with strong weapons that give you a fighting chance no matter what enemy's weapon you face (with varying degrees of difficulty) instead of a game that forces you to run around like a headless chicken frantically searching for a gun that does more than signal the enemy that he can get a free frag.

UT FTW.

The stronger the starting weapon, the more brainless the game is. It has an absolutely monumental effect on gameplay - it alone can make the difference between a tactical match of map control, teamwork and staying alive and a mindless spamfest.
Contrary to popular belief, TDM is a very intelligent, challenging and tactical game. Arguably more so than any other. But not when the starting weapon is too powerful.
If anything, Q3s starting weapon is too powerful - it can deal some pretty significant damage with ease.

Heh I fergot this was just deathmatch we were talking

CS is still the winner though if you're talking multiplayer in general

I disagree completely, but you have a right to your opinion.

 

[Deleted member 56031]

CS is still the winner though if you're talking multiplayer in general

I disagree completely, but you have a right to your opinion.

 

[Tagaziel]

The stronger the starting weapon, the more brainless the game is. It has an absolutely monumental effect on gameplay - it alone can make the difference between a tactical match of map control, teamwork and staying alive and a mindless spamfest.
Contrary to popular belief, TDM is a very intelligent, challenging and tactical game. Arguably more so than any other. But not when the starting weapon is too powerful.
If anything, Q3s starting weapon is too powerful - it can deal some pretty significant damage with ease.

I'd still take Battlefield over Q3A any time of the year. Even despite it's a "mindless spamfest" with powerful starting weapons.

 

[Gray Fox]

Battlefield 2> TF2> rest

 

[Vigilante]

Deathmatch was definitely Q3. However, I thought UT was a much more enjoyable game.

 

[Seppo]

quake 2 is the best ever.

 

[Wanted Bob]

UT is my favourite.

 

[repiV]

I'd still take Battlefield over Q3A any time of the year. Even despite it's a "mindless spamfest" with powerful starting weapons.

The analogy doesn't apply to Battlefield because item control is not a part of the game...

 

[Lt. Drebin]

Well like I said, to me Quake games and mods go hand in hand. It's meaningless to judge a Quake game based on its boxed state because they are modding platforms in themselves - I think id understood the community when they created Q3. Team Arena, the expansion pack, was received poorly because people didn't want to pay for something they could get for free.

You do realize that there are probably a crap-load more people that don't mod and have no interest in playing modded games than there are mod fans...to those people Id has a history of releasing games that simply don't feel as complete as it's competitors. Epic gave gamers MORE than they needed right from the get go.

Once again though, UT was still and is still huge in the modding community. You continue to sell them short. It's still extremely popular. You are aware that there are still tons of servers (over 2000 according to wiki) still up and running and it's a direct result of the modding and mutators for UT...same as Q3.

And let's look deeper at that since we still are talking about mods. Even in the face of numerous reiterations in the franchise, the original UT continues to be played by a lot of people.

I thought TA was great though, didn't last long sadly. But yeah, for six months to a year following Q3s release, UT was better.

I still stand by the statement that UT was so varied and refined from the get-go that modding didn't have to play such a huge roll in the beggining. That's critical to the main question in this thread. That's more of a testament to Epic. But, in the end, it was and still is huge for UT as well.

 

[Lt. Drebin]

quake 2 is the best ever.

QFT. :smoking:

 

[99.vikram]

Contrary to popular belief, TDM is a very intelligent, challenging and tactical game.

I've never played competitive TDM (more into CTF or tactical MP like ET), so if you could explain what it's all about that would be great.

If anything, Q3s starting weapon is too powerful - it can deal some pretty significant damage with ease.

I can track a target pretty well, so a lot of my kills are, surprisingly, machine gun kills from medium range. And if the server's all about sniping, then I own with the railgun. Q3's weapons are far too accurate.

EDIT:

quake 2 is the best ever.

People complain about weak RL in Q2 but I think that's exactly what a good DM game should have: a RL that's good for nothing but rocket jumping (impact hammer). There's still the issue of the worthless chaingun and overpowered hyperblaster though(in close combat).

And HLDM was awesome - some weapons were useless (pistol, satchel charges, hivehand and snarks) but the rest forced you to think hard to win. And gauss jumping beats rocket jumping IMO. And it has a much, MUCH steeper learning curve than Q3 despite being a slower game.

 

[repiV]

You do realize that there are probably a crap-load more people that don't mod and have no interest in playing modded games than there are mod fans...to those people Id has a history of releasing games that simply don't feel as complete as it's competitors. Epic gave gamers MORE than they needed right from the get go.

You've got to put things in context - think about Quake's origins.
The game was released in 1995...QuakeWorld, the online version of Quake, was a mod in itself. Back then, the internet was not a mainstream thing at all, and PC gaming certainly wasn't. Online gaming was the preserve of an elite few.
Quake has its roots firmly in the hardcore gaming community, people who would upgrade their PCs and internet connections just for the game, who would spend hours tweaking their CFGs to get the most competitive results and who would mod the crap out of the game. It was very much an underground thing.
Back then, there were no casual gamers. Quake has never been mainstream, and the people who play Quake are a very different kind of gamer from the people who play UT or CS or anything else. Most Q3 players had a background in QW or Q2, at least initially.

UT came out in an era when online gaming was already popular, and was aimed squarely at the mainstream. To aim a Quake game at the mainstream would do a disservice to what the game is all about. If you think Q3 is too fast, you should try QuakeWorld. It's about three times as fast and completely ruthless - if your opponent is slightly more skilled than you, you'll get utterly annihilated. A lot of QW players thought Q3 was for n00bs.

Once again though, UT was still and is still huge in the modding community. You continue to sell them short. It's still extremely popular. You are aware that there are still tons of servers (over 2000 according to wiki) still up and running and it's a direct result of the modding and mutators for UT...same as Q3.

Yes, but it's just not the same thing.

And let's look deeper at that since we still are talking about mods. Even in the face of numerous reiterations in the franchise, the original UT continues to be played by a lot of people.

I still stand by the statement that UT was so varied and refined from the get-go that modding didn't have to play such a huge roll in the beggining. That's critical to the main question in this thread. That's more of a testament to Epic. But, in the end, it was and still is huge for UT as well.

Varied, yes...but the gameplay is anything but refined. UT is a lacklustre game with great packaging, whereas Q3 is a great game with lacklustre packaging.
The key difference is that mods gave Q3 the great packaging.

I've never played competitive TDM (more into CTF or tactical MP like ET), so if you could explain what it's all about that would be great.

It's all about map control. Keeping control of the weapons, armours, powerups etc. - weapons spawn every 30 seconds, armours every 25 and powerups every 2 minutes. It requires a great deal of coordination to keep control, and if you die then you start from scratch and you leave yourself open to repeated slaughter from the other team.
You can get an astronomical lead on the other team and just destroy them over and over and over again, which is a key dynamic of TDM - in CTF you can't get ahead to such an extent. It's really hard to regain control of the map, so you have to hang on to your advantage at all costs.
It forces you to think on your feet because the situation is constantly changing and you have to keep everything together in that high-pressure environment, and keep track of everyone when they're constantly respawning, as well as the items and the enemy team. That's what makes it so challenging. If CS is about sound tactical plans, then TDM is about sheer mental agility.
Most people think it's about getting kills but it's much more about staying alive. Running away is often the best tactic.

I can track a target pretty well, so a lot of my kills are, surprisingly, machine gun kills from medium range. And if the server's all about sniping, then I own with the railgun. Q3's weapons are far too accurate.

That is one problem with Q3. It was balanced for an era when most people had pings in excess of 200, and the lowest anyone really had was 50.
Now with everyone on sub-30 pings, the railgun and especially the lightning gun are too powerful. Armour is your railgun insurance, though.
You can kill an unarmoured opponent with the machinegun from full health in 12 shots - pretty damn OTT in my opinion.

EDIT:

People complain about weak RL in Q2 but I think that's exactly what a good DM game should have: a RL that's good for nothing but rocket jumping (impact hammer). There's still the issue of the worthless chaingun and overpowered hyperblaster though(in close combat).

I <3 RL. It's always been my best weapon, I don't know why. Most people are rail- or lightning-whores, but I was always a rocket monkey. I got like 80% accuracy with the damn thing. That was my individuality.

 

[ericms]

I'm going to get so grilled on this one, but I've played the first Halo competitively on Xbox. The game type predominantly used was 2v2 team slayer on small maps. Halo had some depth, which I'll try to form into a list of some sort, but Quake 3 and UT probably had more (I've never played either one competitively). Here is a list of things I can think of off the top of my head (I stopped playing over 2 years ago).

1.) All maps came down to whoring power-ups and rockets/sniper. Since all the power items spawned cyclically most competitive players would use watches or egg timers to know when to grab them.

2.) The pistol was the weapon used 99% of the time when one did not have power weapons (rockets/sniper). You could slay someone with full health and shields with a minimum of three shots to the head. Lots and lots of strafing went on also. I mixed in jumping and crouching into my own strafe.

3.) A team could control both their own spawns and to lesser of a degree their opponents. When your teammate died, for example, you needed to stand over a specific area, or jump whilst over a specific area. On some maps a team, when stuck, would deliberately slay one of their members in order to use this trick. Also, you could spawn trap your opponents by forcing them to spawn where you wanted or where you didn't want. You could sometimes spawn rape another team then by repeatedly killing them off right after they spawned. People had to figure out many of these spots on their own for each level.

4.) Grenade spots were also great. Sometimes, in order to get power items that were out of reach or in a dangerous spot, players would toss grenades in specific spots in order to blow power items to them or down from a top floor. There were a ton of these, some very elaborate, and the game would be very frustrating if you didn't know any of these coming into it. Also people would use grenades to blow themselves up to somewhere.

5.) There were two main glitches in the game. One called backpack reloading and another called double meleeing. The first one allowed you to reload one weapon whilst having your other one out (you were only allowed to carry two weapons not including grenades). The other one allowed you to melee twice, which was really powerful since melee damage took out a ton of shield/health. Actually, I believe two melees were enough to slay someone (perfect!).

6.) Other miscellaneous things like sweep sniping online (over XBC which you could use to play the xbox copy online) which utilized lag for you rather than against. Also, you could gang up on power ups by having your team sit over one. There was also a glitch where you could have infinite rocket ammo, but this was the only tactic looked down upon competitively.

 

[99.vikram]

Also people would use grenades to blow themselves up to somewhere.

Just like rocket jumping, eh?

6.) Other miscellaneous things like sweep sniping online (over XBC which you could use to play the xbox copy online) which utilized lag for you rather than against. Also, you could gang up on power ups by having your team sit over one. There was also a glitch where you could have infinite rocket ammo, but this was the only tactic looked down upon competitively.

Why didn't Bungie patch these?

 

[ericms]

Just like rocket jumping, eh?

It's often not as useful. Also, it doesn't propel you great distances and it completely drains your shield making you an easy target. So it's mostly used to get out of shit house spots.

Why didn't Bungie patch these?

The Xbox edition of Halo was never meant to be played online. Gamespy and XBC hacked some makeshift way of allowing this. It wasn't half bad to be honest, and was completely playable with pings around 60 or lower. So Bungie never patched these things because Halo never used Xbox Live like Halo 2+. Besides I think everyone would have unanimously agreed that, with the exception of the rocket ammo glitch, nothing needed to be patched. Hardly anyone used that trick anyway.