kosovo

[<RJMC>]

so whats yours stand?

I dont know much about the conflict but I read that the UN accorded to stablish the region and give it back to serbia, so what hapened?

that will make the UN not a trustworthy organization

 

[Solaris]

I fully support the kosovinians in their quest for freedom and self determination.

 

[<RJMC>]

I fully support the kosovinians in their quest for freedom and self determination.

yeah right

big pappa russia and china dont support it, even chavez and buddies dont support it too

 

[Escaep]

I still dont get why the serbs (or whoever did it) set fire to our embassy.

 

[Emporius]

I still dont get why the serbs (or whoever did it) set fire to our embassy.

Because Bush/his government advocated the separation.

 

[Solaris]

I say, to hell with Serbia, after they elected milosovic and the crimes he committed I don't give a shit for their country.

 

[<RJMC>]

I say, to hell with Serbia, after they elected milosovic and the crimes he committed I don't give a shit for their country.

but misolevic was a president of the socialist republic of yugoslavia

so why the hate?

castro and stalin would fell dissapointed of you,and you dont want that

 

[Nemesis6]

More nationalism is just what Yugoslavia needs, and we'll be getting the refugees next time someone politician and/or militia commander decides to "Defend Great X from Y'ian aggression."

X and Y = Random Yugoslav country.

 

[staticprimer]

The Kosovars having Hashim Tachi as their first PM is not a good way to start off their country, though not unexpected, and certainly isn't helping things. Tachi was a hardcore nationalist during the Balkans war and a former leader of the KLA. He was responsible for his own series of ethnic cleansing of Serbs within Kosovo, but you won't hear it advertised because Tachi worked closely with NATO in choosing air strike targets. His anti-Serb campaign wasn't nearly as bad as Milosevic's but he is still one of the most hated Kosovars by the Serbs. One crucial aspect to this whole thing that isn't even being talked about is that the Albanian majority of Kosovo is a very new thing, as recently as 20-30 years ago Serbs had a clear majority. Immigration and an anti-Serb environment even before Milosevic made the ethnic make swing so much to the Albanians. Don't think I am specifically pro-Serb, though, its just usually the case that western media has had a pro-kosovo slant and people should know the whole story.

More nationalism is just what Yugoslavia needs, and we'll be getting the refugees next time someone politician and/or militia commander decides to "Defend Great X from Y'ian aggression."

X and Y = Random Yugoslav country.

Exactly. I can't say how long it will be, but before long we'll be seeing Kosovo clamp down on the remaining Serbs in the country. They will try to force all of them out in time, despite what the president says. One of the primary goals of the KLA and Hashim Tachi was to create an ethnically pure "Greater Albania".

 

[Nemesis6]

Albania did the "Greater" thing too? I thought that was a Serb concept. This makes it all the more ironic to see the dumbasses accusing each other of wanting a "Greater (insert the other guy's country here)".

 

[Gray Fox]

but misolevic was a president of the socialist republic of yugoslavia

so why the hate?

castro and stalin would fell dissapointed of you,and you dont want that

If you weren't such a tool you would have noticed solaris has
opposed "socialist", and I use the term in the loosest possible
way, politicians on numerous occasion. Unlike you he can actually
make a stance supported by something other then blind ignorant hate
against a specific group/ideology.




Also Static Primer Wiki ,the most unrealible source possible, disagrees with you,
it says Kosovo has had a large Albanian majority for pretty long now.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Kosovo

 

[marvin-martian]

the only people who can throw rocks better than the Iraqis are the Serbs.

 

[kirovman]

yeah right

big pappa russia and china dont support it, even chavez and buddies dont support it too

Oh yeah, it's true:

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/02/21/america/LA-GEN-Venezuela-Kosovo.php

What a bastard that Chavez is.

 

[staticprimer]

Also Static Primer Wiki ,the most unrealible source possible, disagrees with you,
it says Kosovo has had a large Albanian majority for pretty long now.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Kosovo

I'd have to check my notes again, but I'm pretty sure Serbs have dominated the region until recently. Even if they lost dominance within the last 100 years, that is out of an over 1000 year history. For a people who consistently look to the past for validation, 100 years is very recent and would make it still very sensitive to the Serbs.

 

[Evo]

I say, to hell with Serbia, after they elected milosovic and the crimes he committed I don't give a shit for their country.

Wow....and you claim other people are racist. Way to go and blame a whole country for the actions of one man and his cronies.

For the UN to go and create new borders and shit is bad, haven't they taken anything from what happened after Versailles? Messing around arbitrarily is bad bad news. They should have gotten people from everyone involved and sorted it out like that. The US didn't help matters by just going and supporting it and declaring it independent. They should have know the Serbs wouldn't react well to that.

 

[kirovman]

I have mixed feelings on the matter - on one hand, why not, let them determine their own future. On the other hand, they are relatively new arrivals in Kosovo, the Albanians were helping the Nazis ethnicly cleanse the Serbs, although the Serbs did some ethnic cleansing of Albanians recently. The whole thing just seems like a huge mess, with a powder keg thrown in. But it is a fact that the unilateral independence declaration is against international law.

 

[Nemesis6]

It's one big bag of crap. The most ironic thing is - If they started fighting again, we would be powerless to stop them. Completely powerless.

 

[staticprimer]

It's one big bag of crap. The most ironic thing is - If they started fighting again, we would be powerless to stop them. Completely powerless.

Right now the only thing stopping an open invasion is the fear of intervention by NATO and/or the UN, so we're not completely powerless. The thing is, Kosovo had semi-autonomy after the war. Each side wasn't completely satisfied, but at least there wasn't open conflict.

 

[Solaris]

Deatjh To Capitalism

 

[marvin-martian]

Deatjh To Capitalism

capitalism ftw

 

[Combine_Advisor]

I say, to hell with Serbia, after they elected milosovic and the crimes he committed I don't give a shit for their country.

I say to hell with you.First study a little bit of history before insulting.After tito's death there was no president of yugoslavia.There was only a rotating presidency.When Milosevic's turn came he started all those wars.And btw Yugoslavia didnt want communism.At the end of WW2 the communist partisans took over yugoslavia.! :flame::flame::flame::flame::flame:

 

[Combine_Advisor]

Albania did the "Greater" thing too? I thought that was a Serb concept. This makes it all the more ironic to see the dumbasses accusing each other of wanting a "Greater (insert the other guy's country here)".

There is greater serbia,albania,croatia,greece,bulgaria,slovenia,bosnia,macedonia,montenegro

 

[Solaris]

I say to hell with you.First study a little bit of history before insulting.After tito's death there was no president of yugoslavia.There was only a rotating presidency.When Milosevic's turn came he started all those wars.And btw Yugoslavia didnt want communism.At the end of WW2 the communist partisans took over yugoslavia.! :flame::flame::flame::flame::flame:

If you're trying to paint Serbia as the victim here you shall recieve no sympathy from me.

My history on the Balkans is not what I wish it to be. I did however have the honour last summer of going to the cave in Croatia where Tito ran a large part of his resistance against the Nazi's and I find it hard not to respect him for that.

I am also under the impression that Yugoslavia was democratic, is this not true? Was Milosevic not elected by the Serbian people? On a sidenote, I am proud to say it was my Grandfather in law Richard May who was the chief judge at Milosevics trial.

And even still, it was not Milosvic who ran the death camps and raped and murdered Bosnian women. Elements of the Serbian people hold responcability for this. Serbia was at the least complient in the genocidal state apperatus and so I would support any people who would desire to be independant from this.

 

[Escaep]

My grandpa was born and raised in Serbia (then Yugoslavia.) He was a teen when WW2 started, luckily he managed to escape out of the country.

My my mom's cousin still lives is Krusevic, Serbia.

 

[Combine_Advisor]

My grandpa was born and raised in Serbia (then Yugoslavia.) He was a teen when WW2 started, luckily he managed to escape out of the country.

My my mom's cousin still lives is Krusevic, Serbia.

KrusevAc you mean.

 

[<RJMC>]

solaris saying bad things of a people of a country?

your doctrine shouldnt be about saying the oposite?

 

[Combine_Advisor]

If you're trying to paint Serbia as the victim here you shall recieve no sympathy from me.

My history on the Balkans is not what I wish it to be. I did however have the honour last summer of going to the cave in Croatia where Tito ran a large part of his resistance against the Nazi's and I find it hard not to respect him for that.

I am also under the impression that Yugoslavia was democratic, is this not true? Was Milosevic not elected by the Serbian people? On a sidenote, I am proud to say it was my Grandfather in law Richard May who was the chief judge at Milosevics trial.

And even still, it was not Milosvic who ran the death camps and raped and murdered Bosnian women. Elements of the Serbian people hold responcability for this. Serbia was at the least complient in the genocidal state apperatus and so I would support any people who would desire to be independant from this.

No he wasnt,he was elected by the presidency of the communist party of yugoslavia.Those rapists,thugs and murrdurers where idiots that "represented serbia".In fact they didnt even know how to spell Serbia they were just ordinary criminals.Today those "patriots" are supportors of the Serbian Radikal Party wich is for war for Kosovo (not officialy) and for the release of Ratko Mladic the purputraitor of the crimes in Srebrenica (look wikipedia).On the recent parlimentary elections the SRS lost and their reign has come to a end

 

[Solaris]

No he wasnt,he was elected by the presidency of the communist party of yugoslavia.Those rapists,thugs and murrdurers where idiots that "represented serbia".In fact they didnt even know how to spell Serbia they were just ordinary criminals.Today those "patriots" are supportors of the Serbian Radikal Party wich is for war for Kosovo (not officialy) and for the release of Ratko Mladic the purputraitor of the crimes in Srebrenica (look wikipedia).On the recent parlimentary elections the SRS lost and their reign has come to a end

Your country still constructed a genocidal apperatus which comitted unforgiveable crimes so I support the victims of those crimes in their attempts to be independant.

 

[MiccyNarc]

Your country still constructed a genocidal apperatus which comitted unforgiveable crimes so I support the victims of those crimes in their attempts to be independant.

Don't blame the country for what the leaders did.

Just because a country is called a "democracy" doesn't mean that the label has anything to do with reality.

 

[Solaris]

Don't blame the country for what the leaders did.

Just because a country is called a "democracy" doesn't mean that the label has anything to do with reality.

I bet Milosovic didn't shoot a single person.

Every single Serbian soldier who served then holds responcability for what happened. Not to mention the 100's of thousands who held pro-Milosovic protests as he came to power.

Entire communities turned against the non-serb minorities when it all started. Read how families were burnt out of their homes by their neighbours, taken to labour camps and sadistically murdered. The entire state was complicit in it. I'm not saying your individual Serbian should be punished. But if Kosovo want to run a state seperate from the millions of accomplaces and perpatrotors to genocide that live in Serbia I say we support them one hundred percent.

Genocide is unforgiveable and I think we all would appropiate blame further than just the leaders if we were the victims of it.

 

[Escaep]

KrusevAc you mean.

My bad. :frog:

 

[MiccyNarc]

I bet Milosovic didn't shoot a single person.


Entire communities turned against the non-serb minorities when it all started. Read how families were burnt out of their homes by their neighbours, taken to labour camps and sadistically murdered. The entire state was complicit in it. I'm not saying your individual Serbian should be punished. But if Kosovo want to run a state seperate from the millions of accomplaces and perpatrotors to genocide that live in Serbia I say we support them one hundred percent.

Genocide is unforgiveable and I think we all would appropiate blame further than just the leaders if we were the victims of it.

Come back to me when you've actually talked to people involved in the conflict, on both sides of the borders, and how they all went through living hell.

Don't ****ing blame the Serbs, you know how easily people are mislead, hell you must experience it constantly.

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

I bet Milosovic didn't shoot a single person.

Every single Serbian soldier who served then holds responcability for what happened. Not to mention the 100's of thousands who held pro-Milosovic protests as he came to power.

Entire communities turned against the non-serb minorities when it all started. Read how families were burnt out of their homes by their neighbours, taken to labour camps and sadistically murdered. The entire state was complicit in it. I'm not saying your individual Serbian should be punished. But if Kosovo want to run a state seperate from the millions of accomplaces and perpatrotors to genocide that live in Serbia I say we support them one hundred percent.

Genocide is unforgiveable and I think we all would appropiate blame further than just the leaders if we were the victims of it.

I guess all of the germans in WW2 were evil too. Bloody Germans. Its not like they were manipulated and lied too.

 

[kirovman]

Weren't Serbs victims of attempted genocides too?

Sure there's War Criminals out there in Serbia, but painting all Serbs with the same brush reeks of gross generalisation at best.

 

[staticprimer]

Weren't Serbs victims of attempted genocides too?

Sure there's War Criminals out there in Serbia, but painting all Serbs with the same brush reeks of gross generalisation at best.

Indeed. The Kosovars are far from innocent victims as Solaris would like to believe. The KLA was founded as an ethno-centric paramilitary organization with the expressed interest in creating a ethnically religiously pure Kosovo. During the war the KLA received help from Al-Qaeda, channeling through Albania. And the current prime minister of Kosovo was formally a famous leader of the KLA, Hashim Tachi.

 

[Combine_Advisor]

Indeed. The Kosovars are far from innocent victims as Solaris would like to believe. The KLA was founded as an ethno-centric paramilitary organization with the expressed interest in creating a ethnically religiously pure Kosovo. During the war the KLA received help from Al-Qaeda, channeling through Albania. And the current prime minister of Kosovo was formally a famous leader of the KLA, Hashim Tachi.

Exactly.Glad someone knows the truth.In March of 2004 the Kosovo Albanians started burning churches,exiling people from their homes,and starting living there.That is something we cant forget and forgive

 

[Solaris]

Come back to me when you've actually talked to people involved in the conflict, on both sides of the borders, and how they all went through living hell.

Don't ****ing blame the Serbs, you know how easily people are mislead, hell you must experience it constantly.

Okay, I visited Croatia and Bosnia over summer so I've done that.

Forgive me for not showing sympathy for the Serbs for being 'misled' into commiting genocide, poor people, they are the real victims here...

I guess all of the germans in WW2 were evil too. Bloody Germans. Its not like they were manipulated and lied too.

I'm not saying all the Germans were evil, just as I'm saying not all Serbians are. But such a large percentage of the current Serbian population supported Milosovics genocidal ambitions that I can fully understand why ethnic minorties there would want to seperate from it.

Weren't Serbs victims of attempted genocides too?

Sure there's War Criminals out there in Serbia, but painting all Serbs with the same brush reeks of gross generalisation at best.

No, what is wrong is painting all sides in the conflict as equally responcable. Serbia was the perpertrator and committed the vast majority of the evils with regards to Kosovo.

The people of Kosovo originally launched a campiagn of non violence civil disobediance.

Indeed, when Serbia tried to use military force to stop this the KLA did emerge and elements of it did commit terrible crimes, but these crimes had nowhere near the level of support milosovic did nor were they perpatrated on anywhere near the same scale.

 

[Kula Meenur]

..Come back to me when you've actually talked to people involved in the conflict, on both sides of the borders, and how they all went through living hell.

Don't ****ing blame the Serbs, you know how easily people are mislead...

This.

 

[Solaris]

This.

Thanks for your contribution.

It's not a vote, it's a debate.

 

[Kula Meenur]

Kosovo should regain Serbian majority. Too much history/sociological/economical significance for Serbia to lose. Don't believe it should be an Albanian state.


Then again, change is change and i've never lived there for an extended period of time.