Kyle (from [H]ardOCP, famous nVidia biased site) finally seen the light...

[Pr()ZaC]

Kyle (from [H]ardOCP, famous nVidia biased site) finally "seen the light"...

I'm not posting this just to make users open their eyes, but because to me it's like some kind of miracle!
That's right.
Kyle wrote an editorial (a little too late, huh, Kyle? ) about how he NOW feels about nVidia strategies.
I still disagree with his opinion about the nV's quasi-Trilinear being "good enough" in UT2003...anyway, here you go:

The last year has been an incredible year when it comes to video cards. No wait, it has not. It has been an incredible year when it comes to video card companies that develop the technology. As far as the actual hardware goes, the Radeon R3XX series still remains the most impressive VPU introduction in recent memory as it truly revolutionized the way we play games and continues to do so. On the other end of the scale we have the GeForceFX 5800 series that without a doubt turned into the biggest joke in our community since Matrox brought us the Parhelia. That is not what I want to talk about however. I want to talk about the way NVIDIA is treating the people that have bought its products recently and every enthusiast that keeps up with the goings on in the world of VPU/GPUs.

ATI has been building targets for NVIDIA to aim at for the last year and NVIDIA has done little more than shoot themselves in the foot every chance they have gotten. Let’s recap a couple of the highlights shall we?

On the topic of 3DMark03, everyone but NVIDIA, Futuremark, and their lawyers will tell you that NVIDIA cheated in that benchmark to get a better score. No matter what the press releases say about optimizations, I think many of us know very well that it was cheating. You can characterize NVIDIA’s actions as “optimizations” and argue that point well, but to accept that take on the issue you have to throw out everything you know about past experience when it comes to benchmarking. The way that NVIDIA went about optimizing for 3DMark03 recently can only be looked at as an attack on the enthusiast community and everything we have built and believe in. NVIDIA’s actions and optimizations for 3DMark03 tear at the very fabric of our community and violate some unwritten laws. I personally put no real value in 3DMark03 scores, but many folks did, and certainly it is used by large OEMs. NVIDIA got caught with their hand in the cookie jar and when they pulled it out, they gave everyone the bird.

I cannot be sure of their motives behind those actions but NVIDIA has ensured us that they have taken measures so that it will not happen again. Sadly, the person they need to be talking to is you. The person they need to be apologizing to is you. What NVIDIA has done in the world of benchmarks is inexcusable and they simply owe us all an apology for dumping on every person that ever supported them.

We took NVIDIA to task earlier this year on the topic of image quality and they got down to brass tacks and fixed some things that were wrong. We were impressed, but they seem to be backsliding. We recently addressed the issue of NVIDIA and their Trilinear Filtering that they use in UT2K3. I still stand behind our results, but that article raised a wealth of other questions. Why is NVIDIA “decreasing” Trilinear Filtering samples? Why do they force the optimization in this one game? Why do I not have the control over image quality that I think I should have?

It seems that to me that NVIDIA has implemented a legitimate optimization with UT2K3 in order to win what is a very widely used benchmark. I personally do not have an issue with that. The optimizations are present in the benchmark are also applied in the game which is widely played and many persons might find that useful during gameplay. The issue with this “quasi-Trilinear Filtering” optimization is that you cannot turn it off should you wish to. If you go into the UT2K3 video setup GUI, there is a checkbox there for “Trilinear Filtering”, so it seems obvious to me that the game developer seemed to think that Trilinear Filtering would be something that would enhance the game. Some folks are upset that they do not get to enable this feature using NVIDIA GFFX cards as it is commonly understood to work.

Quite frankly, I don’t like not having that ability taken from me either. I think when we spend $400 or $500 on a video card, we should be able to turn on true Trilinear Filtering in the game if that is what we want, and NVIDIA has taken this away from us. We spoke to NVIDIA about this months ago, and we thought we had negotiated an answer that would make everyone happy. We have publicly referred to this multiple times. We expected a control in their new drivers that would allow the application to set influences that affect image quality.

As of last night, using NVIDIA’s new driver set, we were not able to turn on true Trilinear Filtering in UT2K3. We went to NVIDIA and asked about this. They explained that we had never been told what we thought we had been told. It seemed to turn into a semantics game; one I did not feel like playing. Why NVIDIA is refusing to give this option to the enthusiasts is simply beyond me. The fact of the matter is that this option is not our birthright or anything close. NVIDIA has a fiduciary duty to its stockholders to make them money and apparently they think this decision on forcing their optimizations on the end user is one that will go their way and help them be profitable.

Now we are hearing rumors of NVIDIA once again joining Futuremark’s 3DMark Beta program. As of this morning NVIDIA PR neither confirmed nor denied the rumor. IF this is true it simply leaves me numb after all the efforts that NVIDIA has expended to discredit Futuremark. We have already seen Futuremark roll over at NVIDIA’s command here recently. What integrity Futuremark had was spent this year. I am not sure how anyone can actually use their benchmarks now and think that there is some semblance of objectivity. Futuremark takes direct payments from the companies that profit from the hardware it benchmarks and that is unacceptable as it is a glaring conflict of interest. We are talking about payments adding up to millions of dollars. At this point, if NVIDIA does in fact climb back into the Futuremark Beta program I can only think of the move as being laughable.

I am sorry, but I have now had enough. NVIDIA needs to fess up to their actions publicly. NVIDIA needs to apologize for their actions publicly. NVIDIA needs to spell out the corrections they are going to make publicly. NVIDIA needs to make the community aware of the optimizations they will make that affect benchmark scores in games and synthetics. NVIDIA needs to treat the community with the respect they deserve. If they do not, the enthusiast community needs to go spend their money with the competition and urge all the people that ask them for buying advice to do the same.

The bottom line is this. NVIDIA has broken a sacred trust between themselves and the community and unless they get their issues together very quickly and address them, I have a feeling that many more of you will not be buying their products. NVIDIA’s current line of cards is very strong and they look to be good products, but as a consumer I would personally have a hard time giving them my money right now. The only real power we consumers have is to vote with our wallets.

ATI and NVIDIA need to pull out of the Futuremark Beta Program and recommit themselves to focusing on their customers gaming experience. But, this is all just my opinion.

Feel free to steal, rip, copy, fax, email, and post this article in whole or in part, as your own words, or as mine.

Taken from http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NTAz

I hope admins won't be forced to delete this post :dozey:

 

[dawdler]

You know, you could have just linked it without quoting...
But he appears to bash Nvidia pretty hard, yes... Though not enough most would think. There are people that would have worded it quite more harshly

 

[reever2]

What a hypocrite. I wouldn't believe anything he says in this article until you see his reaction to Nvidias next PR stunt/drivel and driver hackery/resonse to the editorial

 

[nsxownzme]

I couldn't agree with him more, NVIDIA needs to change. ATi just seems so much better right now. I still can't believe NVIDIA would rather fuK the image quaility to raise the FPS.

 

[Doobz]

reever, if you don't believe Nvidia has done anything wrong, you are most naive

 

[reever2]

Originally posted by Doobz
reever, if you don't believe Nvidia has done anything wrong, you are most naive

My reply isnt towards Nvidia, but to Kyle. His opinion changes very rapidly, and he just may be swooned over (again!) by something a nvidia rep tells him next and he will post a rebuttal to the article saying everything is fine.

 

[Ridic]

well i wish some uber new company comes out of the shadows crushing nvidia and ATi at the same time so no one would have anything to argue about since everyone would be buying from the same ppl.

 

[crabcakes66]

Originally posted by [Hunter]Ridic
well i wish some uber new company comes out of the shadows crushing nvidia and ATi at the same time so no one would have anything to argue about since everyone would be buying from the same ppl.

But then we would have to pay more for gfx cards......

 

[gMANiac]

Originally posted by crabcakes66
But then we would have to pay more for gfx cards......

Yes...competition=good

Pr()ZaC, what makes you say [H] is nVIDIA biased? They favor the 9800 over the 5900 and have always complemented ATi's excellence in IQ. I don't get that statement. They were longtime pro-3dfx anti-nVIDIA before the take-over/buy out. That's what I'll always remember Kyle and the gang for.

Originally posted by Pr()ZaC
I still disagree with his opinion about the nV's quasi-Trilinear being "good enough" in UT2003...

Kyle's stand-point is this : if you play UT2K3 with the 'optimised' drivers, it isn't as big of a deal because it's a run-gun-keep-your-head-down-frag-fest game. Giving up some graphic quality with less of a hit to fpsec helps. He does have a problem with not being able to turn off the 'optimization/cheat'. They were, supposedly, told that this would be fixed and it wasn't. So NOW they make a stink.

I tend to agree with that stand-point. I'm not playing UT2K3 to look at the pretty pictures. Or to notice the lack thereof in the textures. Sure, I want decent graphics. But not ALL OUT eye-candy if I get fragged for it. That's not what I'm there for. Now, if any naive prospective video card buyer thinks that "more fps in UT2K3 =better card" or "higher 3DMark score=better card", then it serves them right. That's what their narrow mind is likely buying it for anyway. So let them have their 'cheat' in this game.

Now, don't get me wrong. I'm opting out of nVIDIA on my next purchase and I think it's sad they stoop to these 'cheats' to get higher fps/scores and even sadder that it's not able to be toggled correctly. Though that's not my only reason. But, not everyone is a hot head and is immediate to jump on the "let's bash nVIDIA" wagon. Some are patient enough to give someone a chance to admit they're wrong. I think that's what Kyle has done, and I have no problem with that. If you want to take his hesitation as ass-kissing then I guess that's your (and others') prerogative.

 

[Pr()ZaC]

nVidia is being bashed because it deserves it.
Cheating=deceiving OEMs ---> end users and make them think that nVidia has the fastest hardware out there.
And what about the HUGE OFFICIAL LIE nVidia has spreaded around with its 44.03 drivers and the performance boost using AF in UT2003 (5600 case)?
Of course there is a performance boost! THERE'S NO FREAKIN AF BEING USED! And mind you, it's not a bug as it's an "application specific" (via detection) "optimization".
You DO visit HardOCP and read Kyle's reviews and forum posts, right?
If not, you should really go there and make yourself an idea of what he did in the past, trying covering nVidia's silly cheating attempts.
Some of the posts have been deleted and users banned when trying questioning him, even with reason.
NOW that he didn't get what he wanted from nVidia (full Trilinear feature...) a controversal editorial pops up.
You really should read what other users (not n00bs) have to say about this and Kyle's past behaviour.
You'll surely find it an interesting read:
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7373&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

 

[SidewinderX]

I can't belive the short memories everyone has. a year ago, nvidia was only making golden cards, and ati was doing pretty poorly. I can understand people saying "i don't like nvidia for the cheating thing", but when people say "i odn't like nvidia cause they can't make a good video card", i get pissed.

 

[reever2]

Originally posted by crabcakes66
But then we would have to pay more for gfx cards......

But way back in the voodoo days there were 10+ gfx manufacturers and prices were still very high...