Learning to drive

[repiV]

So I took my first driving lesson today. Not out of choice, you understand - but as I'm under doctor's orders not to ride until near enough 2009, I don't see that I have any other options.
First impressions - cars are slow and unwieldly. Turning a corner on the bike is a simple matter of applying force to the bars and over it goes, in the car you need to turn the freaking wheel about three whole rotations to get anywhere.
Massive width, ridiculously low visibility, a total lack of any agility, slug-like acceleration and long braking distances...going everywhere at half the speed as on the bike seems to be generally appropriate. If that.

Anyway after he'd been through all the bureaucratic crap, like how the examiner wants to see you put your seatbelt on in a certain way, and adjust all the aspects of the car in a certain order (WTF does it matter whether I adjust the seat or the mirrors first?) I got to drive round the block a few times. Mildly entertaining...it's weird having clutch/throttle as pedals instead of hand controls, especially as one of my legs is broken. Had a little trouble with taking corners at anything over walking pace because it's so incredibly unresponsive, and I kept forgetting the handbrake, but hopefully once I've got the controls down I should be sorted as the rest is all second nature anyway.
He kept telling me not to bother looking over my shoulder prior to changing direction - only to use the mirrors. This seems downright irresponsible to me, there's a haaauuge farking great big blindspot all around the damn thing, if that's what they teach people it's no wonder people try to kill me so often on the bike.

Alas, I don't know anything about what's a good car and what isn't. Even most of the 1.6s seem to put out less power than my 180 kilo bike, and have longer 0-60 times than my bike's quarter-mile times. Just seems frankly ridiculous, my bike is a budget commuter machine!
I want something that's cheap to buy, run and insure but that bears as little resemblance as possible to an asthmatic slug carrying a rucksack full of bricks as possible, and if it doesn't handle like an overloaded shopping trolley that's also a major bonus. If it can cruise at 100mph without blowing up, that would help.
Any suggestions?

 

[Hectic Glenn]

You're right, cars are rubbish. They'll never catch on!

 

[Vegeta897]

I'm just waiting til this whole car fad is over.

 

[Rico]

I give it a week.

 

[Dekstar]

You change your seat first because if you don't, then when you adjust your seat, your mirrors will be in the wrong positon.

Oh and Glenn, you made me lol. Hard.

 

[repiV]

You're right, cars are rubbish. They'll never catch on!

If you started out on machines which accelerate so quickly it feels like your guts are being sucked out through your spine, effortlessly take 20mph car corners at 60, yet cost peanuts to buy, run and insure, don't spend half their time sitting in traffic and cost nothing to park, and which you can actually redline in every gear without being dangerous, you too would feel that you were taking a massive step backwards.

But...that was never the point of this thread.

 

[Viperidae]

I want something that's cheap to buy, run and insure but that bears as little resemblance as possible to an asthmatic slug carrying a rucksack full of bricks as possible, and if it doesn't handle like an overloaded shopping trolley that's also a major bonus. If it can cruise at 100mph without blowing up, that would help.
Any suggestions?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaWoo82zNUA

 

[Krynn72]

wtf bikes have better 0-60 times than cars?! WHAT

Also, I always thought you had to learn to drive before you could ride a motorcycle. Do you need a totally separate license for a bike?

 

[repiV]

You change your seat first because if you don't, then when you adjust your seat, your mirrors will be in the wrong positon.

Oh and Glenn, you made me lol. Hard.

Good point. It wasn't just that though, there's a whole procedure for everything - even down to exactly how you should put on and take off your seatbelt and open the door.
Classic case of learning by repetition rather than understanding.

 

[repiV]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaWoo82zNUA

If only!

wtf bikes have better 0-60 times than cars?! WHAT

It's not just better... we're talking five times better here. That's a shock to the system.

Also, I always thought you had to learn to drive before you could ride a motorcycle. Do you need a totally separate license for a bike?

In the UK, yes. The standards for bike licensing are actually significantly higher than for obtaining a car license, unlike (afaik) in the States.

 

[Rico]

Cars = safer than motorcycles.

If I had a dime for every time I saw some biker speed past me driving and cut me off, I'd be rich. IMHO, a lot of motorcycle accidents are caused because a lot of bikers tend to be reckless and drive way too fast in traffic.

My uncle has a bike and he's gotten so many injuries since he started. Man.

 

[repiV]

Cars = safer than motorcycles.

Given the circumstances surrounding this thread in the first place, I think it's fair to say you don't need to tell me that.

If I had a dime for every time I saw some biker speed past me driving and cut me off, I'd be rich. IMHO, a lot of motorcycle accidents are caused because a lot of bikers tend to be reckless and drive way too fast in traffic.

The vast majority of motorcycle accidents are caused by other drivers. 73% of total bike accidents are cars pulling out at junctions into the path of an oncoming bike, and that doesn't even cover any of the other non-fault scenarios. It is true that most fatal accidents are caused by the rider, though - but you can obviously pick up some horrific injuries from hitting a car and still not die.
There are obviously reckless bikers, but bikes can do a hell of a lot of things that cars can't. You may think they're being reckless and dangerous when what they're doing is perfectly safe.

My uncle has a bike and he's gotten so many injuries since he started. Man.

The biggest risk you can take in life is not to follow your dreams.

 

[Acepilotf14]

I'm getting a bike sometime. Also, whatever car you have obviously sucks, as you can dish off $400,000 for a car that can do 0-60 faster than a bike.

 

[repiV]

I'm getting a bike sometime. Also, whatever car you have obviously sucks, as you can dish off $400,000 for a car that can do 0-60 faster than a bike.

Yeah I know, but I'll settle for something which has a tolerable suckage threshold. I was thinking something like a Golf 2.0, but that's probably stupidly expensive.

 

[Solaris]

How can you afford the lessons?

 

[repiV]

How can you afford the lessons?

I work from home. Boring as hell, but the money's good.

 

[xcellerate]

I was thinking something like a Golf 2.0, but that's probably stupidly expensive.

I'm assuming you're talking about the 2.0 8v, not the 2.0t or the 2.0l 16v (9a or ABF version)

lol, god sometimes I love car prices in america. People who (stupidly) bought the 2.0 instead of the vr6 or 1.8t would virtually give their cars away.

 

[repiV]

I'm assuming you're talking about the 2.0 8v, not the 2.0t or the 2.0l 16v (9a or ABF version)

lol, god sometimes I love car prices in america. People who (stupidly) bought the 2.0 instead of the vr6 or 1.8t would virtually give their cars away.

I don't know the difference between any of them.

Here we have to worry about insurance too, it costs the earth. A friend of mine insured her 1.6 (I think it was a Golf or a Polo or something like that) when she was 19 and it cost her over ?1000 ($2000) for a year's third-party insurance. Insurance is far cheaper for women, too.
Unfortunately as a new driver I'll get shafted just as much as people who don't have any prior experience on bikes. Surely you'd have to be retarded to cause a car accident.

 

[xcellerate]

I don't know the difference between any of them.

2.0l 8v = 115hp / 122ft/lbs...generally found in mkIII's ('93-'98) and beetles)
2.0l 16v (9a) = 134hp / 133ft/lbs (found in mkII gti/jetta '88-'92)
2.0l 16v (ABF) = 175/150hp (european only, it started in '93 don't know when it stopped being made)
2.0t = ~207hp / ~225ft/lbs (mkV's '06+)

 

[Dan]

I think this is really just a motorcycle rant wearing the guise of a learn-to-drive thread.

 

[repiV]

2.0l 8v = 115hp / 122ft/lbs...generally found in mkIII's ('93-'98) and beetles)
2.0l 16v (9a) = 134hp / 133ft/lbs (found in mkII gti/jetta '88-'92)
2.0l 16v (ABF) = 175/150hp (european only, it started in '93 don't know when it stopped being made)
2.0t = ~207hp / ~225ft/lbs (mkV's '06+)

Gotcha.

I think this is really just a motorcycle rant wearing the guise of a learn-to-drive thread.

And I think you're an asshole.

No, it's quite obviously a "what car should I get?" thread.

 

[AKIRA]

i want an audi r8 so bad

 

[theotherguy]

If you started out on machines which accelerate so quickly it feels like your guts are being sucked out through your spine, effortlessly take 20mph car corners at 60, yet cost peanuts to buy, run and insure, don't spend half their time sitting in traffic and cost nothing to park, and which you can actually redline in every gear without being dangerous, you too would feel that you were taking a massive step backwards.

But...that was never the point of this thread.

...until you collide with another vehicle or object on said motorized bicycle and end up a blip on the pavement.

...or you have to transport anything. At all.

 

[Solaris]

A ring

 

[repiV]

...until you collide with another vehicle or object on said motorized bicycle and end up a blip on the pavement.

Point being?

...or you have to transport anything. At all.

90% of people could carry everything they need to on a bike, you just have to be a little creative sometimes.
People use bikes to travel around the world on, after all.

 

[_Z_Ryuken]

I've made store runs on my bike. All you need is a back pack, and maybe saddle bags.

He kept telling me not to bother looking over my shoulder prior to changing direction - only to use the mirrors. This seems downright irresponsible to me,

True. They expect you to adjust your mirrors in some perfect area that covers all spots, but this is ridiculous. There are times however when it is not necessary to look around.

The vast majority of motorcycle accidents are caused by other drivers.

True.
People who ride bikes are often far more aware of their surroundings.

I can't make a suggestion for a car you'd like because I'm into GTs. You wouldn't like what I drive despite the cockpit view.

 

[Dan]

And I think you're an asshole.

You're kind of snappy, and I don't mean well dressed.
I will remember that comment.

 

[Taboo]

Point being?



90% of people could carry everything they need to on a bike, you just have to be a little creative sometimes.
People use bikes to travel around the world on, after all.

What about when the weather is poor? Snow, rain, flood, etc? What then?

 

[Cavalry]

What about when the weather is poor? Snow, rain, flood, etc? What then?

Bikes on 24"s


(like cars in southern US)

 

[repiV]

I've made store runs on my bike. All you need is a back pack, and maybe saddle bags.

True. They expect you to adjust your mirrors in some perfect area that covers all spots, but this is ridiculous. There are times however when it is not necessary to look around.

I found the whole experience a touch claustrophobic. If anything I felt less safe than on a bike, it's much harder to determine whether it's safe to perform a maneuvre before committing to it - and much harder to avoid a collision or whatever. To my brain that's tuned into the mindset of never doing ANYTHING without being 150% sure it's clear and safe, the approach just seemed plain wrong.
I'll happily ride through my housing estate at 30-40mph, it's easy to see what's going on all around and easy to turn and slow down.
In the car it was like dawdling, 5-15mph everywhere. Sometimes impossible to see through all the parked cars, leaving no option but to pull out into the middle of the road without knowing whether or not it's clear. Then had to reverse to get out of the way of oncoming car - this was all under instructor's guidance, so I don't think it was through my error.
It just requires a completely different mindset.

One thing that highlights the difference is that when I first learned to ride, the instructor kept telling me to speed up to the speed limit (or up to 5mph over) because I was being dangerously slow, whereas the driving instructor said to me "there's no such thing as too slow". I was holding up all sorts of traffic, and every time I sped up to stop being a pain in the arse, he told me to slow it down a bit.
Completely different attitudes to self-preservation.

True.
People who ride bikes are often far more aware of their surroundings.

My instructor said that the learning curve for bikers is basically exponential - you struggle with the mechanical concepts at first, control of the car etc, but then when that clicks into place you make rapid progress.
He said I should be up to test standard in 10 lessons, average for a driver with no road experience being 40-50.

I can't make a suggestion for a car you'd like because I'm into GTs. You wouldn't like what I drive despite the cockpit view.

It's ok, whatever you drive I probably wouldn't be able to get insurance on anyway.

You're kind of snappy, and I don't mean well dressed.
I will remember that comment.

Your comment came across as quite hostile, that's all.

 

[repiV]

What about when the weather is poor? Snow, rain, flood, etc? What then?

Rain isn't an issue on modern bikes. Tyres today offer excellent grip - you have to be a lot more careful in the wet, but there can still be enough grip to get your knee down (although you'd have to be insane to try). You just have to be more careful and observant and slow down the pace.
And there is plenty of choice in waterproof, windproof, armoured bike clothing - I once rode 100 miles down the motorway in torrential rain at up to 100mph and didn't get even the slightest bit wet.
Pricier helmets have anti-fogging visor capabilities and you can get sprays and wipes that make the outer surface of the visor slick, so the rain runs away. It doesn't work so well at urban speeds, but that's just one of the challenges of riding...

It's possible to ride in snow, but I wouldn't want to try. Fortunately it snows here maybe one day a year, so it's not really an issue. If you live in a Scandinavian climate obviously a bike is not a viable means of year-round transport, but in the UK it is.

 

[AKIRA]

i prefer cars for the following reason:

better looking
safer
more options
better driving experience
can carry a lot more than a bike
you can drive in a variety of weather conditions
more comfortable

 

[Cavalry]

It's possible to ride in snow, but I wouldn't want to try. Fortunately it snows here maybe one day a year, so it's not really an issue. If you live in a Scandinavian climate obviously a bike is not a viable means of year-round transport, but in the UK it is.

Aye, but in a Scandinavian climate, Snowmobile are massive fun, a few fast-food places have these new "Snow Mobile Thru", which is a drive through for snowmobiles, I have yet to see one for motorbikes.

 

[repiV]

i prefer cars for the following reason:

better looking
safer
more options
better driving experience
can carry a lot more than a bike
you can drive in a variety of weather conditions
more comfortable

And that's fine. We all have different priorities.

Aye, but in a Scandinavian climate, Snowmobile are massive fun, a few fast-food places have these new "Snow Mobile Thru", which is a drive through for snowmobiles, I have yet to see one for motorbikes.

Haha awesome. You can ride snowmobiles on the road?

I went through a McDonald's drive through on my bike once, I got some funny looks. Balancing the bag and shit on top of my tank as I rode up to the next window, fiddling with my wallet through my gloves, chucking it all in my backpack etc.

 

[Cavalry]

And that's fine. We all have different priorities.



Haha awesome. You can ride snowmobiles on the road?

I went through a McDonald's drive through on my bike once, I got some funny looks. Balancing the bag and shit on top of my tank as I rode up to the next window, fiddling with my wallet through my gloves, chucking it all in my backpack etc.

Yes we can, but this is only if there is snow/ice on the road, and there usually is.
too bad for your balancing, for snowmobiles, we get sleds to pull children along, I rode in one when I first saw it :bounce:Is fun.

There should be more vehicle-type friendly drive thru's at fast food joints.

 

[repiV]

Yes we can, but this is only if there is snow/ice on the road, and there usually is.
too bad for your balancing, for snowmobiles, we get sleds to pull children along, I rode in one when I first saw it :bounce:Is fun.

I love it. That's just one of those crazy, magical and joyous things that says a hearty **** you to the stifling seriousness of modern life. Awesome.

There should be more vehicle-type friendly drive thru's at fast food joints.

The staff never asked me any questions, but that could have something to do with the fact that my friends and I used the place as a meeting point every Friday night and we didn't rob anyone or kill any kittens as most people seem to think the big scary bikers do.

 

[xcellerate]

Yes we can, but this is only if there is snow/ice on the road, and there usually is.

we got a local guy with a snow mobile that he races at the drag strip. It's not too fast, but it's loud as hell...and not in a good way, it's such a high pitch you think your head is going to explode.

 

[Glirk Dient]

I live in MN...so a bike isn't really an option. It snows/rains ALL the time and theres no way I could sober cab so it wouldn't even fit in with my social life.

 

[Bad^Hat]

I was about to say you're less likely to run off the road and slam into a tree in a car, until I remembered my dad did exactly that about a year ago...

In his defense, he had accidentally taken a bunch of sleeping pills (thinking them to be paracetamol) before setting off. :|

 

[kirovman]

What's the name of your driving school? Is it a national one?