Learning to love the B.G.

[Sprafa]

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2002/07/28/IN244190.DTL


I was astonished with the similarities of the current times with 1984 when I finnaly read it (a week ago). After a few searching I've found an article that well written and consistent gives the points I would hope to make.

It's dissapointing that so many try to restrict the reality in 1984 to a Communist regime. I found interesting to find maybe as many comparable points in today's America as in Stalinistic Soviet Union.

PERMANENT WAR

In "1984," the state remained perpetually at war against a vague and ever- changing enemy. The war took place largely in the abstract, but it served as a convenient vehicle to fuel hatred, nurture fear and justify the regime's autocratic practices.

Bush's war against terrorism has become almost as amorphous. Although we are told the president's resolve is steady and the mission clear, we seem to know less and less about the enemy we are fighting. What began as a war against Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda quickly morphed into a war against Afghanistan, followed by dire warnings about an "Axis of Evil," the targeting of terrorists in some 50 to 60 countries, and now the beginnings of a major campaign against Iraq. Exactly what will constitute success in this war remains unclear, but the one thing the Bush administration has made certain is that the war will continue "indefinitely."

MINISTRY OF TRUTH

Serving as the propaganda arm of the ruling party in "1984," the Ministry of Truth not only spread lies to suit its strategic goals, but constantly rewrote and falsified history. It is a practice that has become increasingly commonplace in the Bush White House, where presidential transcripts are routinely sanitized to remove the president's gaffes, accounts of intelligence warnings prior to Sept. 11 get spottier with each retelling, and the facts surrounding Bush's past financial dealings are subject to continual revision.

The Bush administration has been surprisingly up front about its intentions of propagating falsehoods. In February, for example, the Pentagon announced a plan to create an Office of Strategic Influence to provide false news and information abroad to help manipulate public opinion and further its military objectives. Following a public outcry, the Pentagon said it would close the office -- news that would have sounded more convincing had it not come from a place that just announced it was planning to spread misinformation.

INFALLIBLE LEADER

An omnipresent and all-powerful leader, Big Brother commanded the total, unquestioning support of the people. He was both adored and feared, and no one dared speak out against him, lest they be met by the wrath of the state.

President Bush may not be as menacing a figure, but he has hardly concealed his desire for greater powers. Never mind that he has mentioned -- on no fewer than three occasions -- how much easier things would be if he were dictator. By abandoning many of the checks and balances established in the Constitution to keep any one branch of government from becoming too powerful, Bush has already achieved the greatest expansion of executive powers since Nixon. His approval ratings remain remarkably high, and his minions have worked hard to cultivate an image of infallibility. Nowhere was that more apparent than during a recent commencement address Bush gave at Ohio State, where students were threatened with arrest and expulsion if they protested the speech. They were ordered to give him a "thunderous ovation," and they did.

BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING

The ever-watchful eye of Big Brother kept constant tabs on the citizens of Orwell's totalitarian state, using two-way telescreens to monitor people's every move while simultaneously broadcasting party propaganda.

While that technology may not have arrived yet, public video surveillance has become all the rage in law enforcement, with cameras being deployed everywhere from sporting events to public beaches. The Bush administration has also announced plans to recruit millions of Americans to form a corps of citizen spies who will serve as "extra eyes and ears for law enforcement," reporting any suspicious activity as part of a program dubbed Operation TIPS --

Terrorism Information and Prevention System.

And thanks to the hastily passed USA Patriot Act, the Justice Department has sweeping new powers to monitor phone conversations, Internet usage, business transactions and library reading records. Best of all, law enforcement need not be burdened any longer with such inconveniences as probable cause.

THOUGHT POLICE

Charged with eradicating dissent and ferreting out resistance, the ever- present Thought Police described in "1984" carefully monitored all unorthodox or potentially subversive thoughts. The Bush administration is not prosecuting thought crime yet, but members have been quick to question the patriotism of anyone who dares criticize their handling of the war on terrorism or homeland defense. Take, for example, the way Attorney General John Ashcroft answered critics of his anti-terrorism measures, saying that opponents of the administration "only aid terrorists" and "give ammunition to America's enemies. "

Even more ominous was the stern warning White House Press Secretary Ari Fleischer sent to Americans after Bill Maher, host of the now defunct "Politically Incorrect," called past U.S. military actions "cowardly." Said Fleischer, "There are reminders to all Americans that they need to watch what they say, watch what they do, and this is not a time for remarks like that; there never is."

What would it take to turn America into the kind of society that Orwell warned about, a society that envisions war as peace, freedom as slavery and ignorance as strength? Would it happen overnight, or would it involve a gradual erosion of freedoms with the people's consent?

Because we are a nation at war -- as we are constantly reminded -- most Americans say they are willing to sacrifice many of our freedoms in return for the promise of greater security. We have been asked to put our blind faith in government and most of us have done so with patriotic fervor. But when the government abuses that trust and begins to stamp out the freedom of dissent that is the hallmark of a democratic society, can there be any turning back?

So powerful was the state's control over people's minds in "1984" that, eventually, everyone came to love Big Brother. Perhaps in time we all will, too.

 

[Rupertvdb]

Such a good article, i have found a few examples of the patriot act causing people's liberties to not only only be restricted but out and out quashed.

I seriously suggest everyone give 1984 a go, another book that is worth checking out is Farenheit 451, which is the inspiration for the Michael Moore film title.

That's another good book about liberties being removed and a passive society in distopia. Brave New World is a good one too but that is more for the biological crowd.

Comparisons to '1984' have become more and more frequent since the Bush presidency, it is pretty worrying. These elections seem to be suffering from the Ministry of Truth syndrome, the electorate get fed a lot of lies and misinformation and it is quite concerning. At least there can only be four more years of Bush, it remains to be seen what he could do with that time...

 

[Sprafa]

I find that narrowing it down just to Bush a little hypocrit.
Kerry uses the same tactics. As a matter of fact, the entire Western World is going closer and closer to Oceania. Although, America, as the formal representative of the Western World is not closer to 1984 than we would ever hope...

he forgot about Revisionism historians

New avatar

 

[Korgoth]

yes.
That is all I can say.

 

[Sgt_Shellback]

You all cling to this but support the Govt in taking the rights of its citizen to bear arms away?

Strange...

 

[CptStern]

no one has the right to bear arms IMHO.... only cops and the military should have guns ..your murder rate proves that. Baltimore, an average sized city has more murders per year than all of canada.

 

[Korgoth]

You all cling to this but support the Govt in taking the rights of its citizen to bear arms away?

Strange...

Well you cling to the govt but support keeping the weapons to protect yourself from them.

Strange....

 

[Sgt_Shellback]

no one has the right to bear arms IMHO.... only cops and the military should have guns ..your murder rate proves that. Baltimore, an average sized city has more murders per year than all of canada.

First step towards big brother... Ensure the Citizens have absolutely no power over the Govt.

 

[Korgoth]

oh btw, I don't support taking guns away/assualt weapons away, and I don't support keeping guns/assualt rifles. I'm neutral on the whole issue, not sure where i stand yet.

 

[CptStern]

ya, I'm sure you'd be the first one to fight back. You support you're government no matter what, so I dont honestly believe you would take the side of the rebels

I'm also sure the government would be gentle when confronted with a mob of citizens armed with hunting rifles and the odd machine gun. Go to any protest in the US, just to see how fast dissent is crushed

 

[Korgoth]

I have a question sgt. shellback, since your in the armed services. Did you have to sign forms when you enlisted, agreeing that if ordered you would fired upon/kill american citizens?

 

[Sgt_Shellback]

ya, I'm sure you'd be the first one to fight back. You support you're government no matter what, so I dont honestly believe you would take the side of the rebels

I'm also sure the government would be gentle when confronted with a mob of citizens armed with hunting rifles and the odd machine gun. Go to any protest in the US, just to see how fast dissent is crushed

I suppport my country... I love it... I've been around the world. Spain, UK, Australia, Italy, Israel, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Guam, Japan, South Korea, Mexico, Canada... And know that there's no better place.

A Nations freedom and the rights of it's citizens are not something anyone should give up lightly.

 

[Sgt_Shellback]

I have a question sgt. shellback, since your in the armed services. Did you have to sign forms when you enlisted, agreeing that if ordered you would fired upon/kill american citizens?

No... I took an oath to support and defend the Nation.

 

[CptStern]

even if that means firing upon american citizens?

 

[CptStern]

I suppport my country... I love it... I've been around the world. Spain, UK, Australia, Italy, Israel, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Guam, Japan, South Korea, Mexico, Canada... And know that there's no better place.

well all I can say is that you must not have visited for long

not that I'm saying my country is better than yours, that's just silly

"my bit of cloth and imaginary lines on a map is better than your bit of cloth and imaginary lines on a map"

 

[Sgt_Shellback]

Against all enemies foreign and domestic...

 

[Sgt_Shellback]

well all I can say is that you must not have visited for long

Too long in some cases.

 

[Rupertvdb]

I didn't narrow it down to the Bush administration but it is true that since Bush has come into power the comparisons have become more and more frequent.

I am referring ot the obvious Patriot act issues, the war on terrorism and the way it is thought etc.

On the right to bear arms front you would hope that in a current democracy you could overthrow the government without needing to turn to firearms. If this fails then we are all stuffed anyways and Bubba with his shotguns isn't going to prevent anything except the continuing existence of a few of his neighbours.
The right to bear arms is a bit of a joke, it is a dated and crazy idea. I think that people owning weapons is not a problem and in a controlled environment and when hadnled with care they can make for excellent sport, but to have it as part of your constitutional rights and to be held in such regard is dangerous.

 

[MindCrafter]

even if that means firing upon american citizens?

Of course, you know that.

 

[Korgoth]

No... I took an oath to support and defend the Nation.

So if ever ordered to fire upon american citezens who lets say, where demonstrating in a march or rally, would you? (just curious please don't take offence)

 

[Sgt_Shellback]

Of course, you know that.

And if a person in Norway illegally grabbed control of your Govt. and formed a dictatorship you'd what? Wave your umbrella at them?

You guys kill me... You go... "OH NO BIG BROTHER!" But suggest we willingly throw freedom away.

 

[CptStern]

Against all enemies foreign and domestic...

is this defending the country, or an agenda?

she was part of a PEACEFUL protest

his crime was that he didnt run away fast enough

is this freedom? what about freedom of speech? freedom to protest?

were these people enemies of the state?

 

[Sgt_Shellback]

So if ever ordered to fire upon american citezens who lets say, where demonstrating in a march or rally, would you? (just curious please don't take offence)

If a Citizen is running a truck load of explosives up to the county court house I'd put a bullet through his brain faster than the next moderator will come in and warn me not to be so graphic. :wink:

 

[CptStern]

If a guy is running a truck load of explosives up to the county court house I'd put a bullet through his brain faster than the next moderator will come in and warn me not to be so graphic. :wink:

protestors dont do that sort of thing

 

[Korgoth]

no thats not what I meant, of course you would in that situation, anyone would. I'm saying if you were stationed at the rnc for instance and an order came from the president himself to fire upon the protesters for whatever reason, "to break them up" or "scare them off" would you do it? Would you follow the order from the commander in chief?

 

[Sgt_Shellback]

protestors dont do that sort of thing

No but domestic enemies do.

 

[CptStern]

no thats not what I meant, of course you would in that situation, anyone would. I'm saying if you were stationed at the rnc for instance and an order came from the president himself to fire upon the protesters for whatever reason, "to break them up" or "scare them off" would you do it? Would you follow the order from the commander in chief?

narrow it down:

if you (Sgt_Shellback) were at kent state May 4, 1970, would you have fired on the unarmed students, as your fellow soldiers did?

 

[Hazar]

When I read the title, I thought you ment Bene Gesserit.

 

[Sprafa]

Sgt_Shellback I really don't know what to say.

You should read History of Sin & 1984. Patriotism is usually an excuse of the powerful to extend their power.

 

[Sgt_Shellback]

no thats not what I meant, of course you would in that situation, anyone would. I'm saying if you were stationed at the rnc for instance and an order came from the president himself to fire upon the protesters for whatever reason, "to break them up" or "scare them off" would you do it? Would you follow the order from the commander in chief?

Ohhhh... That's easy... If some hippy wack job threatened me I'd just slap him... I'm sure he'd faint or run home crying.

 

[Sprafa]

Ohhhh... That's easy... If some hippy wack job threatened me I'd just slap him... I'm sure he'd faint or run home crying.

You shouldn't be like that. :burp:

Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it.
- George Bernard Shaw

A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government.
- Edward Abbey

 

[Korgoth]

Ohhhh... That's easy... If some hippy wack job threatened me I'd just slap him... I'm sure he'd faint or run home crying.

lol, nice dodge mate. Please don't be offended by me asking though, I was just curious.

(of course i'm not a hippy, somewhat of a wack job yes, hippy no. I'd slap back
)

 

[MindCrafter]

And if a person in Norway illegally grabbed control of your Govt. and formed a dictatorship you'd what? Wave your umbrella at them?

You guys kill me... You go... "OH NO BIG BROTHER!" But suggest we willingly throw freedom away.

No actually I would grab the nearest shotgun :naughty:

 

[blahblahblah]

Sgt_Shellback I really don't know what to say.

You should read History of Sin & 1984. Patriotism is usually an excuse of the powerful to extend their power.

Patriotism = Nationalism

Nationalism is used to provide unification of states. Without unification, we would still be in fuedal times. Nationalism is the key to an succesful country. Saying nationalism is an evil thing is wrong. In fact, if there was no nationalism, a country could never become unified which would lead to rampant wars and violence. On the other hand, nationalism has been used for ulterior purposes. Germany before and during WWII comes to mind. However, nationalism is necessary for internal peace.

PS - Before you ask, no I don't think my nationalism has gone to far yet.

PPS - By saying nationalism is evil, Sprafa you should be able to say I hate Portugal. And every country in the world. Because you have no national identity.

 

[Sgt_Shellback]

Sgt_Shellback I really don't know what to say.

You should read History of Sin & 1984. Patriotism is usually an excuse of the powerful to extend their power.

First thing Hitler did was remove the right of the citizens to bear arms.

1984 was required reading for me... What, in a book that portrays big govt as bad, suggests that it's a good idea for it's citizens to give up their right to bear arms?

 

[Rupertvdb]

This has shown a worrying side of HL2.net, Sgt. Shellback can't be a real member of military, you are so off key! Talking about slapping hippies is just ridiculous, you defend these people's rights! You compare protesters to terrorists. The right to free speech is an essential part of your country and defending that is your supposed job!

The part you wrote about Big Brother doesn't hang together very well,

You go... "OH NO BIG BROTHER!" But suggest we willingly throw freedom away.

the but confused me, what is your point?

 

[Sgt_Shellback]

No actually I would grab the nearest shotgun :naughty:

LOL - You can have the shotgun. I'll keep my 'assault' weapon.

 

[Sgt_Shellback]

This has shown a worrying side of HL2.net, Sgt. Shellback can't be a real member of military, you are so off key! Talking about slapping hippies is just ridiculous, you defend these people's rights! You compare protesters to terrorists. The right to free speech is an essential part of your country and defending that is your supposed job!

The part you wrote about Big Brother doesn't hang together very well,



the but confused me, what is your point?

You would push out your cheek if threatened? I'm not so spineless or complacent.

 

[Rupertvdb]

once again, what are you talking about? What part of that suggests i would accept being threatened? I simply pointed out you have a disregard for free speech...

Plus you forgot to clarify what you meant.

 

[Sprafa]

This has nothing to do with the right to bear arms, who the hell brought it up?

Patriotism has been the single #1 excuse for totalitarian governments. Stalin called WW2 the Great Patriotic War. Patriotism has nothing to do with nationalism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationalism