Lethal Injection

Hmm. Would cyanide pills/injections work more efficiently?
 
Tyguy said:
http://www.sptimes.com/2006/12/13/State/Executed_man_takes_34.shtml



Somewhat of an old case, but its kind of interesting. Your thoughts?
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While I can't say I support the death penalty (except in cases of crime on a scale far greater than murder), mainly on the basis that retribution is not justice and the simple fact that innocent people will be executed, I think there are far more important things to worry about than whether a murderer gets a painless death.
 
repiV said:
While I can't say I support the death penalty (except in cases of crime on a scale far greater than murder), mainly on the basis that retribution is not justice and the simple fact that innocent people will be executed, I think there are far more important things to worry about than whether a murderer gets a painless death.
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yes well in this case it is despite your assertations to the contrary specifically because it is against the bill of rights:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

which incidentily are modeled after your own bill of rights ...it also forbids "cruel and unusual punishment"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Bill_of_Rights
 
Stigmata said:
Hmm. Would cyanide pills/injections work more efficiently?
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I think so, pills at least. For some reason cyanide when injested kills you in seconds but it takes minutes if injected into your bloodstream.
 
pills are a no no ..you couldnt legally force someone to take death pills ..that's why all lethal injections are administered by a medical team
 
Bring back the firing squad! If I was going to be executed, thats the way i'd want to go, its awesome.
 
guillotine is far less painful and it's effective 100% of the time ..unless they forget to sharpen it ..then it becomes ..messy
 
no it's not ..where does it say it's unconstitutional? if it were unconstitutional there wouldnt be a single law controlling gun ownership ("RPGs for everyone! huzzah!") ...you're really reaching repiv.
 
How about injecting cyanide directly into the base of the brain? Or something. I don't know, I'm no rocket scientist.
 
CptStern said:
no it's not ..where does it say it's unconstitutional? if it were unconstitutional there wouldnt be a single law controlling gun ownership ("RPGs for everyone! huzzah!") ...you're really reaching repiv.
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A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

How can you even argue the second amendment doesn't exist? Ignorance on an epic scale.
You're right, every single gun control law is unconstitutional.
 
repiV said:
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

How can you even argue the second amendment doesn't exist? Ignorance on an epic scale.
You're right, every single gun control law is unconstitutional.
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yet stands up to every single challenge in the supreme court ..ya you really have a point there repiv ...you're reaching
 
CptStern said:
yet stands up to every single challenge in the supreme court ..ya you really have a point there repiv ...you're reaching
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What part of "the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" do you not understand?
Irrespective of what a kangaroo court may decide, are you ****ing blind?
 
With any method the body should remain (relatively) intact, so the body can be relased in to relatives in a reasonable state etc.
So guilotine, firing squad etc are out of the question.

They should simply use a sedative and then a powerful neuro toxin, not instant as such but painless.

I'm still undecided on the whole issue of capital punishment however.
 
Seems fairly cruel and unusual to me.

I am against the death penalty on the sole basis that if you get it wrong there is no going back.

There are a whole load of other reasons like deterrence being rubbish but they are superfluous.

If we were able to tell who did what with absolute, magical certainty, I would warm to it far more.
 
I hate the idea of killing anyone when it isn't absolutely necessary.

The whole execution process in America disturbs me greatly.
 
Also the electric chair has to be the downright darn-tootin' most craziest execution method ever.

It's up there with 'drowned in beans'.

FRIED ALIVE AND BOWLS DISRUPTED

Is this not Cruel and Unusual?
 
No, because it's novel. Or at least it was back when it was invented.
 
whats wrong with hanging, much cheaper....
 
The death penalty is disgusting. Those who execute are no better than those romans who watched arena fights.
 
Sulkdodds said:
Also the electric chair has to be the downright darn-tootin' most craziest execution method ever.

It's up there with 'drowned in beans'.

FRIED ALIVE AND BOWLS DISRUPTED

Is this not Cruel and Unusual?
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Nebraska doesn't even use lethal injection, yet they have the death penalty? How are executions done you ask? Almost entirely chair. Cruel.

**** the death penalty, eye for an eye is outdated barbaric logic.


http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=8&did=245

Nebraska: Electrocution is the sole method.
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disgusting. I'm glad this topic came up actually.. in Government class we discuss this on a daily basis lately, and the various state policies on it.
 
gick said:
Bring back the firing squad!
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Indeed. Cheaper and more effective. Not even a firing squad, really...why do you need an entire squad? Inefficient and costly. Killing a single person requires a single bullet. Not factoring the cost of lead cleanup, executing an inmate can be achieved for a few cents. For 32 cents you can pick up a lead-free tungsten bullet.

And when you put a gun to someone's head and pull the trigger, they're not going to be flopping around for eleven minutes. They're dead.

CptStern said:
guillotine is far less painful and it's effective 100% of the time ..unless they forget to sharpen it ..then it becomes ..messy
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Someone executed by guillotine is still alive for a few seconds/minutes; long enough for the eyes to still be moving around and the mouth to be gasping for the oxygen it can no longer receive. It is not "far less painful"; in fact, it's probably excrutiatingly painful.

Not that I care about criminals suffering pain. If it were up to me I'd feed them all to lions.

Angry, poked-at-in-the-eye with a stick lions. Lions out for blood. I hear they quite like the taste of human flesh...
 
You frighten me Darkside, not gonna lie, fact that people like you are walking the streets scares me shitless. The way you speak about humans, like they are objects or lambs to be slaughtered, your matter-of-fact casual tone is the scariest part of all, the that death is to be deserved or is a measurable form of punishment.

Entertaining to read none the less
 
babyheadcrab said:
You frighten me Darkside, not gonna lie, fact that people like you are walking the streets scares me shitless. The way you speak about humans, like they are objects or lambs to be slaughtered, your matter-of-fact casual tone is the scariest part of all, the that death is to be deserved or is a measurable form of punishment.

Entertaining to read none the less
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I think he was joking :rolleyes:
 
I was only joking about the lions. When I was younger I kinda believed in it, I thought it was a viable idea to ship criminals to an island and have them be tortured in all sorts of ways (BTW Condemned totally stole my idea, except I'd never let a criminal go free) but these days I only use it as a way to show my contempt for criminals, namely those who I feel are deserving of the death penalty.

You have me a bit wrong. I don't view humans as lambs for the slaughter. In fact I view humans as precious; in my eyes, despite all we've done I find us a magnificent species worthy of life. I see humans with a past and future greatness. And this is why I can talk so coldly about criminals.

If I were to put my feelings toward humanity in a metaphor, I would call us a single organism. One body. There are billions of humans, all like the cells of a body, most of which are working together in harmony (or at least we should be). Criminals on the other hand are rogue cells, a cancer that eats away at us as a species. And what do you do with a cancer? You irradiate it. You expunge it from the body. You kill it as fast as possible--so that the rest of the body may live.

I can speak coldly about them because I don't view them as deserving of life. People who only exist to hurt others for their own pleasure or gain are not worthy of human rights, because they are no longer human. They are self-serving things. The man in the original post, the one who was lethally injected, robbed a bar, shot and killed a man, killed another man in his own country, and broke out of jail twice, and attempted a third time. For these types of people, death IS a viable means of punishment. At the very least I advocate a swift and relatively painless means of death, if only for its ease and the economy of it rather than because I care about "cruel and unusual punishment." It is cruel and unusual that these people are allowed to exist in our society, even locked up.
 
The death penalty can be considered a way an uncivilized society solves it's problems. If someone does some horrible crime, it's not gonna stop because you killed him. People are gonna do it again. The trick is to prevent it from happening again, and the death penalty doesn't do that.
 
Darkside55 said:
I was only joking about the lions. When I was younger I kinda believed in it, I thought it was a viable idea to ship criminals to an island and have them be tortured in all sorts of ways (BTW Condemned totally stole my idea, except I'd never let a criminal go free) but these days I only use it as a way to show my contempt for criminals, namely those who I feel are deserving of the death penalty.

You have me a bit wrong. I don't view humans as lambs for the slaughter. In fact I view humans as precious; in my eyes, despite all we've done I find us a magnificent species worthy of life. I see humans with a past and future greatness. And this is why I can talk so coldly about criminals.

If I were to put my feelings toward humanity in a metaphor, I would call us a single organism. One body. There are billions of humans, all like the cells of a body, most of which are working together in harmony (or at least we should be). Criminals on the other hand are rogue cells, a cancer that eats away at us as a species. And what do you do with a cancer? You irradiate it. You expunge it from the body. You kill it as fast as possible--so that the rest of the body may live.
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But why stop at murderers? There's a whole fuckload of people who are detrimental to society, people who can be compared to cancers and should be "dealt with". Anyone who doesn't work with another in harmony - like healthy cells in a body - should be killed, by your logic. Which would be everyone in prison (besides perhaps the pettiest criminals), people that refuse to get a job, people who serve no purpose and only require care (mentally handicapped, the elderly) etc.

Hell, murderers have a pretty limited impact on society, they kill one, perhaps a couple of "cells". The biggest criminals would be those who commit fraud, they should definitely all be executed.

Sorry, the analogy doesn't work. Humanity isn't an organism and people aren't cells. A cancer is a non-sentient blob of cells, humans - as horrible as they can be sometimes - still are sentient and have feeling. No act of them will change anything about that.

There's no rational reason to kill someone who is already in your custody, and "I'M AAANNGGRRYYY AT THOSE MURDERERS!" isn't one. Sentences should only be given to either rehabilitate the criminal if at all possible or to protect society from them. Revenge should never be a reason, and that's ALL the death penalty is.
 
Darkside55 said:
Someone executed by guillotine is still alive for a few seconds/minutes; long enough for the eyes to still be moving around and the mouth to be gasping for the oxygen it can no longer receive. It is not "far less painful"; in fact, it's probably excrutiatingly painful.
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I'm pretty sure that's bullshit.
 
Atomic_Piggy said:
I think he was joking :rolleyes:
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I know plenty of people who really feel this way though, so how was I supposed to know? Also he wasn't entirely joking, as you can see in his well thought out reply.

Sulkdodds said:
It looks a bit ropey these days.
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:LOL::LOL:

Darkside55 said:
I was only joking about the lions. When I was younger I kinda believed in it, I thought it was a viable idea to ship criminals to an island and have them be tortured in all sorts of ways (BTW Condemned totally stole my idea, except I'd never let a criminal go free) but these days I only use it as a way to show my contempt for criminals, namely those who I feel are deserving of the death penalty.

You have me a bit wrong. I don't view humans as lambs for the slaughter. In fact I view humans as precious; in my eyes, despite all we've done I find us a magnificent species worthy of life. I see humans with a past and future greatness. And this is why I can talk so coldly about criminals.

If I were to put my feelings toward humanity in a metaphor, I would call us a single organism. One body. There are billions of humans, all like the cells of a body, most of which are working together in harmony (or at least we should be). Criminals on the other hand are rogue cells, a cancer that eats away at us as a species. And what do you do with a cancer? You irradiate it. You expunge it from the body. You kill it as fast as possible--so that the rest of the body may live.

I can speak coldly about them because I don't view them as deserving of life. People who only exist to hurt others for their own pleasure or gain are not worthy of human rights, because they are no longer human. They are self-serving things. The man in the original post, the one who was lethally injected, robbed a bar, shot and killed a man, killed another man in his own country, and broke out of jail twice, and attempted a third time. For these types of people, death IS a viable means of punishment. At the very least I advocate a swift and relatively painless means of death, if only for its ease and the economy of it rather than because I care about "cruel and unusual punishment." It is cruel and unusual that these people are allowed to exist in our society, even locked up.
Click to expand...

I just don't believe life is ever something to be deserved / not deserved. It's not on par with other material belongings, because we have no idea what exists beyond it or aside from it. But as far as economics, death row inmates - the countless trials to so called "prove guilt" and methods of executions currently implored cost far more than "life in prison" so from a moral and economic standpoint death penalty is just flawed in our country. There is really not getting past our fundamentally different views on humanity, but I think we can both agree that the way the justice system handles capital cases is EXTREMELY flawed.

I also fail to understand what is cruel an unusual about keeping them locked up for life, it is rare these days that anyone escapes from maximum security prison (as in, it really doesn't happen except in movies sans 2000ish). I see capital punishment as hacking off the limbs of society to eradicate disease, and often times further damage than the original cancer is caused in the process.

And as far as your "cells working in harmony" this couldn't be further from the truth, with this theory we'd have to eradicate people for non-capital crimes because they are also holding back our cellular structure; drug dealers / addicts, unethical business owners, politicians, lawyers, and the rest of the general soap scum, bottom feeders of society simply waiting for their handouts. It just doesn't work, lines of morality and terms of injustice are just too thin.
 
Darkside, what does killing that crimanal achieve. You never know, that person could make some life-saving cure or stop war in the middle east or simply become a normal preson once he/she is realeased. Two wrongs don't make a right (at least in this case)
 
Taxman said:
I'm pretty sure that's bullshit.
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You'd think that the shock alone would kill you, huh? Well, from a philosophical point of view, I think it's an ok thing - You get to know the exact second of your death; "To face their apportioned fate, then fall", in the words of Tiber Septim from Elder Scrolls 4: Oblivion.
 
Dr. Killjoy said:
When performing a lethal injection, it is essential that the needles be placed with absolute precision. And unlike standard medical procedures, with a lethal injection you have a patient who probably does not want the procedure to occur. Therefore, it is of vital importance that the restraints be tight and strong. Even with that, trouble may arise, and it may be incumbent for the practitioner to take matters into his own hands, using whatever sharp, bladed objects he may have on his person.

Lacerations to the body at strategic locations may put the patient into a state of shock, making him far more pliable, or at the very least, causing him to bleed to death, thus achieving the desired end. And who are we kidding? We're not really trying to be humane anyway. Class dismissed.
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The Suffering is incredibly philosophical in this subject.

Also, the death penalty is the only penalty that cannot be reverted no matter what if it turns out that the victim of it was indeed innocent.
 
Except for castration and other forms of dismemberment.

(Not meaning to be facetious, or detract from the original point of the post)
 
Meh. Life is just another phenomenon. But if lethal injection really is extremely painful, it should be abolished. If I had to go, I'd rather walk the plank!
 
Darkside55 said:
I was only joking about the lions. When I was younger I kinda believed in it, I thought it was a viable idea to ship criminals to an island and have them be tortured in all sorts of ways (BTW Condemned totally stole my idea, except I'd never let a criminal go free) but these days I only use it as a way to show my contempt for criminals, namely those who I feel are deserving of the death penalty.

You have me a bit wrong. I don't view humans as lambs for the slaughter. In fact I view humans as precious; in my eyes, despite all we've done I find us a magnificent species worthy of life. I see humans with a past and future greatness. And this is why I can talk so coldly about criminals.

If I were to put my feelings toward humanity in a metaphor, I would call us a single organism. One body. There are billions of humans, all like the cells of a body, most of which are working together in harmony (or at least we should be). Criminals on the other hand are rogue cells, a cancer that eats away at us as a species. And what do you do with a cancer? You irradiate it. You expunge it from the body. You kill it as fast as possible--so that the rest of the body may live.

I can speak coldly about them because I don't view them as deserving of life. People who only exist to hurt others for their own pleasure or gain are not worthy of human rights, because they are no longer human. They are self-serving things. The man in the original post, the one who was lethally injected, robbed a bar, shot and killed a man, killed another man in his own country, and broke out of jail twice, and attempted a third time. For these types of people, death IS a viable means of punishment. At the very least I advocate a swift and relatively painless means of death, if only for its ease and the economy of it rather than because I care about "cruel and unusual punishment." It is cruel and unusual that these people are allowed to exist in our society, even locked up.
Click to expand...

I don't care what anybody says, your post is simply orgasmic. QFT to the tenth power.
 
Dr. Breen said:
I don't care what anybody says, your post is simply orgasmic. QFT to the tenth power.
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Thats all very well, but what if the person is innocent. YOu can't just say "oh heres compensation for your wasted time" like you can with other sentances. Besides, if the death penalty is gonna be done do it right! We've all heard about people on deaths row who have been waiting 20 years to be killed and still haven't.
 
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