Lethal Injection

[Jintor]

The problem is, the rest of you logical monkeys have to go mad too, otherwise you can't follow the logic. The logic dictates you go into a hive-minded beuracracy; therefore, if the logic dictates you go mad, you go mad. Then you stop following the logic, and then we get the CHAOS!

Yay! CHAOS!

Lol, Numbers is Lawful Neutral tending to Evil. :O

 

[0mar]

I can't believe people here are against the death penalty. For some crimes (too little, IMO, but that's another thread), the only penalty is death.

If you guys are against the death penalty, what should have the SS officals gotten? A slap on the wrist and told not to do it again? Maybe a small fine would have shown them the error of their ways.

Angel Diaz didn't jaywalk or run a red light. He shot a manager in cold blood. We aren't talking about a Nobel Laureate here or even someone of importantance/value. I'm glad it took him 34 minutes to die, in fact, I think the more suffering the better. If anything, he got off easy. He certainly deserved worse.

 

[15357]

The problem is, the rest of you logical monkeys have to go mad too, otherwise you can't follow the logic. The logic dictates you go into a hive-minded beuracracy; therefore, if the logic dictates you go mad, you go mad. Then you stop following the logic, and then we get the CHAOS!

Yay! CHAOS!

Lol, Numbers is Lawful Neutral tending to Evil. :O

And you must be Chaotic, mirite?


Or Undead.

 

[The Monkey]

I can't believe people here are against the death penalty. For some crimes (too little, IMO, but that's another thread), the only penalty is death.

Why should the state sink to the murderers' level and become murderers themselves?

If you guys are against the death penalty, what should have the SS officals gotten?

Life in prison.

Angel Diaz didn't jaywalk or run a red light. He shot a manager in cold blood. We aren't talking about a Nobel Laureate here or even someone of importantance/value. I'm glad it took him 34 minutes to die, in fact, I think the more suffering the better. If anything, he got off easy. He certainly deserved worse.

Yes, that's all nice until you kill someone who didn't do it.

 

[Jintor]

Personally, I think that no-one has the right to choose whether another person lives or dies. Conversely, I believe we do have the right to seriously restrict a person's freedom of... anything... if they're a ****ing criminal. I know that one is incredibly more expensive than the other, and it's a large price to pay for keeping my morality intact. I also know that a boatload of people would rather go the eye for an eye route (or the eye for a cartload of eye route, serially speaking) and, I guess, that's up to them; if they can live with that, they can live with that. But I would rather not impose my will of life or death on someone else.

Life in prison sounds about right, anyway.

Numbers? I'm MALKAVIAN, ***tch! Not just Chaotic.

 

[repiV]

I don't want to get into the political implications of having CCTVs and mobile listening posts at every street corner. (V for Vendetta D: )

All I'm saying is, if I can't talk openly to my family without the state overhearing it, I'd rather not live at all.
It's the principle that all freedom struggles are based on.

In London, we do have CCTV on every street corner. Not only that, it's completely effortless to track pretty much anyone's movements around the city as congestion charging cameras record numberplates entering and leaving central London, and the Oyster smartcard used for public transport records all journeys taken.
The only thing we're lacking is the mobile listening posts, and there have been discussions within government about using CCTV that can overhear conversations on the street (although I don't expect anything to come of it...for now).
You're subject to more government surveillance in London than you are in Beijing...food for thought.

 

[Sulkdodds]

As you say, the surveillance itself is not so worrying, as - hey, surprise surprise - when you're out on the street people can see you. It is the concentration of such resources, and a million other information feeds, in the hands of government that raises more concern.

I would have it noted that afaik much of the CCTV in this country is, in fact (reasonably enough) on private property, and facing inward. Certainly the vast majority of cameras I have spotted, admittedly in bohemian big gay bright-town are placed watching loading bays and suchlike.

 

[repiV]

As you say, the surveillance itself is not so worrying, as - hey, surprise surprise - when you're out on the street people can see you. It is the concentration of such resources, and a million other information feeds, in the hands of government that raises more concern.

I would have it noted that afaik much of the CCTV in this country is, in fact (reasonably enough) on private property, and facing inward. Certainly the vast majority of cameras I have spotted, admittedly in bohemian big gay bright-town are placed watching loading bays and suchlike.

I've got no problem with surveillance of private property. That's merely the natural extension of technology for the purposes of protection - if you don't want to get caught on camera, you have the right not to go onto their property.
You don't really have that choice with public property. And yes, I suppose the centralised power is the prime concern.
Cameras are bloody everywhere here in London though, especially in Inner London...although, oddly, I don't think there are any to speak of in Soho. Soho puzzles me - there are conspicuous brothels everywhere (nothing wrong with that in itself, but most of the girls are probably enslaved)...but more interestingly, there are the Triad-run gambling dens in Chinatown and the scam joints that extort unstreetwise tourists etc. out of hundreds of pounds.
Yet the police do nothing about it...you do see quite a heavy police presence but they just seem to drive around. And no cameras. The only conclusion I can come to is that organised crime is paying the police off.
Sorry for the tangent there, I just find it really peculiar. It seems to be the one area of the city where you can get away with anything.

 

[kirovman]

I can't believe people here are against the death penalty. For some crimes (too little, IMO, but that's another thread), the only penalty is death.

Why not? I'm against the death penalty because innocent people will inevitably fall through the system and become executed.

Also I believe that the death penalty is a form of revenge. Justice should be about public safety and calculated punishment, not about revenge.

Whilst I would not agree with sentencing Saddam Hussein to death, or someone like Harold Shipman, I didn't shed tears when Saddam died, or when Shipman took his own life, but I believed in the idea that the state should not take someone's life.

 

[Sulkdodds]

That is indeed very odd.

I was going to say at least large-scale surveillance helps fight crime - at least a little, in-between being used for more untoward ends. Perhaps there is some reason why the police act like they do in Soho, although I'm damned if I know it. Disturbing, anyway.

 

[repiV]

That is indeed very odd.

I was going to say at least large-scale surveillance helps fight crime - at least a little, in-between being used for more untoward ends.

You'd think that...but I've heard so many accounts of there being clear CCTV evidence of a crime being committed (car theft, assault etc.) and yet the police don't bother to pursue it because they can't be arsed.
I think policing is all about revenue these days. A veritable army of cameras, talivans and vulture-like wardens to enforce speeding fines and parking tickets (did you see that article about parking wardens being targeted to book 100 vehicles per hour to raise the required amount of cash for the council?)...but solving a burglary doesn't make money.

Perhaps there is some reason why the police act like they do in Soho, although I'm damned if I know it. Disturbing, anyway.

Soho is a very odd place in general. It's like a grimy den of illegitimacy hiding in the backstreets of the biggest tourist/entertainment district of the country.

 

[repiV]

Speaking of the surveillance and control society...

Excellent article by the Independent

It all makes me so mad. And what really pisses me off as well is the way people in this country just lie down and take it.

 

[Darkside55]

You'd think that...but I've heard so many accounts of there being clear CCTV evidence of a crime being committed (car theft, assault etc.) and yet the police don't bother to pursue it because they can't be arsed.

That is indeed pretty retarded. You have cameras set up for protection yet the cops don't do anything about it, and then on top of that most people dislike the cameras anyway. That's the trouble these days, you have systems in place but nobody uses them correctly (if at all).

BTW your link didn't work, mate.

And Jintor, Numbers, the only acceptable alignment is Lawful Evil. Peace through tyranny!

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

Excellent article by the Independent

D:

Can't wait till Tony leaves. God hes a dickhead. Anyway, the camera thing is really irritating, it hasn't lowered crime or got more people imprisoned since they were installed around my place (proboaly because CCTV has got such a crappy picture)

 

[Jintor]

And Jintor, Numbers, the only acceptable alignment is Lawful Evil. Peace through tyranny!

Imho Ankh-Morpork's government probably works pretty damn well.

 

[Sulkdodds]

(did you see that article about parking wardens being targeted to book 100 vehicles per hour to raise the required amount of cash for the council?)

Arr, something like that happens here - one one occasion someone I know got fined massively for filling in their parking-permit-display-in-windscreen-disk-thing slightly wrong when it was clear what they had meant to put.

(proboaly because CCTV has got such a crappy picture)

They should get blu-ray CCTV.