Lily Mesa: Immigrant's Right Force

[Tyguy]

http://www.peaceworkmagazine.org/node/342

Lily Mesa is a Manchester, New Hampshire representative trying to pass a law making it illegal for police officers to be involved in any kind of illegal immigrant law enforcement. It should be noted that she speaks in an extremely broken English dialect....in New Hampshire....:hmph:

The article has many humorous parts, one being

"But simply because of their immigrant status, many students can?t obtain college education that they deserve because they are forced to pay out-of-state tuition, regardless of the fact that they have lived here for nearly their whole lives and their families pay taxes here!"

The entire article is just stupid and she has been laughed at for a good while. My question is to any New Hampshire voting residents...WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?

If you are interested in hearing an interview with her and a radio personality, click here.

Then click on the "NH Rep. Lily Mesa: Dumber Than She Sounds" link and download the audio blog. I encourage anyone willing to discuss this to listen to her try and make her points.

 

[Solaris]

Why shouldn't immigrants get an education, you complain about immigrants scrounging benifits and committing crimes, well, if they had an education, that wouldn't happen.

 

[Tyguy]

Why shouldn't immigrants get an education, you complain about immigrants scrounging benifits and committing crimes, well, if they had an education, that wouldn't happen.

Your saying that people with an education do not commit crimes? Ill leave that alone. Lets assume an illegal immigrant wants to go to college. How are they paying for this? My guess would either be the money they saved from not paying any kind of taxes, OR, the state would pay for it if they were lucky enough . No matter how you slice it, legal Americans are losing a great deal of money.

 

[Baratos]

Your saying that people with an education do not commit crimes? Ill leave that alone. Lets assume an illegal immigrant wants to go to college. How are they paying for this? My guess would either be the money they saved from not paying any kind of taxes, OR, the state would pay for it if they were lucky enough . No matter how you slice it, legal Americans are losing a great deal of money.

You realize that the American state has never, to the best of my knowledge, provided funding to an illegal immigrant? Illegal immigrants are barred from social security and every welfare program out there made by the government. Also, many illegal aliens end up paying taxes, despite the fact that they are given nothing in return.

 

[ríomhaire]

I have untterly no sympathy for illegal immigrants. They should not be in the country in the first place.

 

[Tyguy]

You realize that the American state has never, to the best of my knowledge, provided funding to an illegal immigrant? Illegal immigrants are barred from social security and every welfare program out there made by the government. Also, many illegal aliens end up paying taxes, despite the fact that they are given nothing in return.

Medical costs, legal costs, imprisonment costs....just to name a few...doesn't have to be just funding

 

[theotherguy]

Yes, everyone deserves an education. It's not funny or ironic, its the god damn truth.

The real solution to the immigration "problem": open borders, easy citizenship. Let our cultures and people naturally diffuse, and we will have a stronger economy and better understanding of one another. If someone wants to hop across the Rio Grande because things suck in Mexico, let them. Stamp them with citizenship, make them pay their taxes, and provide them with all the benefits of a native. If they refuse, deport them. It is that simple.

 

[leib10]

Legal immigrants who are not naturalized citizens have no right to have the state pay for their education. It's taking away money from the citizens who pay their taxes.

 

[delusional]

Legal immigrants who are not naturalized citizens have no right to have the state pay for their education. It's taking away money from the citizens who pay their taxes.

do you mean illegal immigrants?

 

[poo poo head]

I wish you guys understood the life of an immigrant. I grew up in the immigrant world and now how hard it is just to get by here, and how it is even harder to get by back home.

Thats all i have to say, I shouldn't stick my nose into this because i know i won't make any progress...

 

[leib10]

do you mean illegal immigrants?

Both. I should've said a person who has a visa to be here legally in the United States. They shouldn't receive state funding for their education. That's the right of naturalized and US-born citizens. Illegal immigrants have no right to be here at all.

 

[Nate_90]

I'm sorry but illegals aliens need t gtfo plz

 

[Nate_90]

You realize that the American state has never, to the best of my knowledge, provided funding to an illegal immigrant? Illegal immigrants are barred from social security and every welfare program out there made by the government. Also, many illegal aliens end up paying taxes, despite the fact that they are given nothing in return.

you need to get your facts straight man.

 

[Solaris]

I have untterly no sympathy for illegal immigrants. They should not be in the country in the first place.

Try and put yourself in their shoes.
Imagine living in a shitty country where any available jobs pay barely enough to feed your family, if that, your kids live in poverty, wouldn't you want to try and find them a better life, even if that meant becoming an illegal immigrant.

 

[Neo_Kuja]

Try and put yourself in their shoes.
Imagine living in a shitty country where any available jobs pay barely enough to feed your family, if that, your kids live in poverty, wouldn't you want to try and find them a better life, even if that meant becoming an illegal immigrant.

Erm, if you broke into my house (i.e crossed the border illegaly), squatted in it (i.e living in USA illegaly), ate my food (i.e using state-funded healthcare/etc) without paying the bills (i.e taxes), I would sure as hell call the cops to kick you out (i.e Homeland Security). If a lobbyist group disagrees, they should move out with the illegal immigrants, live in squalor with them, and campaign to fix it.

They are Illegal Immigrants NOT Sort-of-maybe-kind-of-Illegal Immigrants. If you come in by breaking the law, you should be kicked back out.

 

[ríomhaire]

Try and put yourself in their shoes.
Imagine living in a shitty country where any available jobs pay barely enough to feed your family, if that, your kids live in poverty, wouldn't you want to try and find them a better life, even if that meant becoming an illegal immigrant.

Fair enough, but I think they shouldn't get any help from the state that they undermined in order to get into the country in the first place.

 

[Solaris]

Fair enough, but I think they shouldn't get any help from the state that they undermined in order to get into the country in the first place.

Of course they undermined it, and I fully support their descision to do so.

If I was faced with a choice of getting my family out of poverty and undermining the US government in the process, I'm sure as hell I would and I bet you would too.

What ever happened to kindness to those less fortunate than ourselves?

 

[Tyguy]

Of course they undermined it, and I fully support their descision to do so.

If I was faced with a choice of getting my family out of poverty and undermining the US government in the process, I'm sure as hell I would and I bet you would too.

What ever happened to kindness to those less fortunate than ourselves?

So you would fully support the release of all inmates in prison who were convicted of theft, because they were less fortunate.....

You have to understand that about 10% of illegal immigrants are convicted felons from their own country, and not forcibly securing our borders doesn't just let in the poor fathers trying to make some money for their families, it lets in ANYONE.

 

[CptStern]

you know there's this strange dichotomy in the US ..on the one hand the rabid masses want to do away with illegal immigration but at the same time they dont want american jobs to go over seas ...well who's going to do the jobs you wont? how many americans are willing to work for $3 and hour at a sweat shop? or pick oranges for 12 hours a day to what amounts to a slaves wage? who will do these jobs? you? ok so let's make it all legal ..no illegal migrant working force ...all previously migrant jobs have to be regulated by federal law like any other industry: minimum wages, job protection, benefits, entitlement to unemployment insurance ..sound fair? you just ran half the companies that rely on cheap labour out of business ..or worse yet, you just sent them overseas where wages are lower and they dont have to worry about humane working conditions, unions or workers rights


I see a lot of gums flapping about the "illegal immigration" problem but none of you are willing to accept the problems that arise from closing your borders. I mean there's a reason why so many illegals get into the US

 

[Solaris]

So you would fully support the release of all inmates in prison who were convicted of theft, because they were less fortunate.....

Yes, I don't believe in Prisons.

You have to understand that about 10% of illegal immigrants are convicted felons from their own country, and not forcibly securing our borders doesn't just let in the poor fathers trying to make some money for their families, it lets in ANYONE.

Is this your source?

If not, please provide a better one for that statistic.

 

[jondy]

Fair enough, but I think they shouldn't get any help from the state that they undermined in order to get into the country in the first place.

Vast swathes of the US economy rely on cheap alien labour. They're not undermining shit. If companies weren't so willing to keep hiring illegals for piss poor wages, maybe things would be different, but as it stands, they're propping up the state they're 'undermining'.

 

[Tyguy]

Yes, I don't believe in Prisons.

What do I say to that.....


These companies that hire illegals would be forced to pay their legal workers a fare wage. If they go bankrupt because of it, its their own fault. Technically they should be in prison.

Of course obvious short-term problems would arise from closing the borders but it is outweighed by years upon years of illegal immigration. Honestly, what do you think will happen if this doesn't stop in 20 or so years?

 

[CptStern]

What do I say to that.....


These companies that hire illegals would be forced to pay their legal workers a fare wage.

how would that work? they're not legal citizens so are not entitled to protection under the law, at least not when it comes to labour laws ..companies would never willingly replace cheap unregulated labour with union jobs that cost 3 times the money

If they go bankrupt because of it, its their own fault. Technically they should be in prison.

it's contract or piece work, they're not breakin laws ..at least on the surface ..besides ..if american corporation go to other countries and take advantage of it's work force why would you think it wouldnt happen in the US ..any crack down on theoir workforce will automatically send them packing to foreign countries for cheap labor/manufacturing

Of course obvious short-term problems would arise from closing the borders but it is outweighed by years upon years of illegal immigration. Honestly, what do you think will happen if this doesn't stop in 20 or so years?

the US economy would take steep nose dive ..literally over night thousands of compnaies would go bankrupt as they couldnt afford to replace their work force ..their business plans rely on cheap labour ..they'd be forced to take business elsewhere again hurtin gthe american economy

 

[Tyguy]

the US economy would take steep nose dive ..literally over night thousands of compnaies would go bankrupt as they couldnt afford to replace their work force ..their business plans rely on cheap labour ..they'd be forced to take business elsewhere again hurtin gthe american economy

Only possible way that could happen would be if every illegal worker suddenly disappeared over night. I would have to assume a decision to close the borders would be a long arduous process.

 

[Mr Stabby]

Try and put yourself in their shoes.
Imagine living in a shitty country where any available jobs pay barely enough to feed your family, if that, your kids live in poverty, wouldn't you want to try and find them a better life, even if that meant becoming an illegal immigrant.

Not everyone in the third world can emigrate to the first world, immigration is not a solution to poverty.

 

[Tyguy]

Yes, I don't believe in Prisons.

I know I quoted you on this already but you have sparked my interest. What kind of system would you advocate for criminals?

 

[leib10]

Erm, if you broke into my house (i.e crossed the border illegaly), squatted in it (i.e living in USA illegaly), ate my food (i.e using state-funded healthcare/etc) without paying the bills (i.e taxes), I would sure as hell call the cops to kick you out (i.e Homeland Security). If a lobbyist group disagrees, they should move out with the illegal immigrants, live in squalor with them, and campaign to fix it.

They are Illegal Immigrants NOT Sort-of-maybe-kind-of-Illegal Immigrants. If you come in by breaking the law, you should be kicked back out.

Well said.

 

[CptStern]

ummm how do illegal immigrants use up state healthcare when american citizens have no access to state healthcare?

..oh I get it ...you mean like if a tractor falls on top of a illgal worker instead of leaving him to die they send him to the hospital and since he's uninsured they have no choice but to honour their hippopotamus oath and treat their patient

 

[Nate_90]

When an Illegal goes to a Hospital to..lets say give birth and they can'y pay for it.Then the County pays for it.

 

[Solaris]

I know I quoted you on this already but you have sparked my interest. What kind of system would you advocate for criminals?

Rehabilitation centers.

Not everyone in the third world can emigrate to the first world, immigration is not a solution to poverty.

No-one claimed it was, it is however a solution for those who can immigrate.

 

[CptStern]

and this is a problem? should the mother just fend for herself then? perhaps it would be better if she gave birth on the street like an animal ..perhaps the government should get ahead of the game and just hand out coat hangers to all females illegally crossing the border

I dont get it ..you'll willingly sacrifice 1000's of your own citizens in a false war clear across the world in the name of humanitarianism yet pregnant illegals on your very doorstep get coat hangers .. ok I exaggerate: a kick in the ass and a "hey good luck, buhbye"

 

[leib10]

No-one claimed it was, it is however a solution for those who can immigrate.

Immigrate legally. If they want to become American citizens, great, they're welcome. If they're here illegally, they aren't welcome.

 

[repiV]

I didn't get the memo that said we were obliged to accomodate people coming in illegally because "they want to improve their life".

I wouldn't blame them, but tough luck. Life ain't fair, it's not my problem. We elect governments to serve the best interests of the tax-paying or eventual tax-paying electorate (in theory), not to serve the best interests of foreigners with no right to vote and who don't pay taxes.

Nation-states are systems designed to protect and represent the people that belong to them, they are not charities.
One reason they are a necessity because we do not live in a world of infinite resources and we need to protect our investments, for the good of the people that have spent their lives contributing to this system. Just like a union, but with sharper teeth and less commies.

To accomodate illegal immigrants at the expense of the law abiding population is nothing less than a complete fallacy of democracy and a miscarriage of justice. It's also an exercise in futility from any sort of "humanitarian" perspective, as the only long-term result will be reduced quality of life in the country absorbing all the illegals.

 

[No Limit]

I didn't get the memo that said we were obliged to accomodate people coming in illegally because "they want to improve their life".

I wouldn't blame them, but tough luck. Life ain't fair, it's not my problem.

I'm glad you aren't spewing that shit about how unfair the fact that they come here and you can't is, looks like we got that point sorted out.

But...

Remember that quote above when you apply for a worker visa to come here and you are denied. We have plenty of unemployed americans here, we certainly don't need you foreigners.

And Stern, who the **** cares about Mexicans. Let them die, I'm sick of them taking my hard earned tax money when their life needs to be saved, that money is way better spent on killing Iraqis instead.

 

[CptStern]

I didn't get the memo that said we were obliged to accomodate people coming in illegally because "they want to improve their life".

so the next time the coast guard finds a sinking ship of refugees they should drop them an anchor? why give aid at all to anyone who cant trace their lineage at least 2 generations on native soil?

I wouldn't blame them, but tough luck. Life ain't fair, it's not my problem.

boat anchors it is then

We elect governments to serve the best interests of the tax-paying or eventual tax-paying electorate (in theory), not to serve the best interests of foreigners with no right to vote and who don't pay taxes.

the best interests? you make it sound like there's long lines of illegals at emergecy rooms complaining of athlete's foot and dry cough ..it doesnt occur to any of you that the majority of illegals wouldnt want to walk into a building full public servants who could very easily call immigration ...in fact why doesnt Immigration camp out in front of hospitals and just wait for the illegals to stroll right in ..it's a no brainer and the non cartoon equivilent to catching them with a giant butterfly net

Nation-states are systems designed to protect and represent the people that belong to them, they are not charities.
One reason they are a necessity because we do not live in a world of infinite resources and we need to protect our investments, for the good of the people that have spent their lives contributing to this system.

yadda yadda yadda ...boat anchors for sinking rufugee boats? there has to be some give somewhere right? stop sending aid to anyone, shut down charities across the board because it's not your responsibility ..oh and kindly bring up your children somwhere else because I dont want my kids to live in your world

To accomodate illegal immigrants at the expense of the law abiding population is nothing less than a complete fallacy of democracy and a miscarriage of justice. It's also an exercise in futility from any sort of "humanitarian" perspective, as the only long-term result will be reduced quality of life in the country absorbing all the illegals.

that's all nice and dandy and sure does sound good on paper however in practicallity it's not such a clear cut issue ..if it were they'd be handing out coat hangers at the border

 

[repiV]

I'm glad you aren't spewing that shit about how unfair the fact that they come here and you can't is, looks like we got that point sorted out.

Sorted out?
No, don't speak for me. It quite clearly remains unfair that unskilled Mexicans who can't even speak English and create rifts in society are given priority over skilled professionals with a high degree of cultural affinity.
It just isn't particularly relevant at this point in time.

But...

Remember that quote above when you apply for a worker visa to come here and you are denied. We have plenty of unemployed americans here, we certainly don't need you foreigners.

Immigration is a two-way street, so your comment is bullshit. Visas aren't granted because of what the individual might gain, they're granted on the whim of the official based on the policy of the government.
Completely irrelevant.

 

[repiV]

so the next time the coast guard finds a sinking ship of refugees they should drop them an anchor? why give aid at all to anyone who cant trace their lineage at least 2 generations on native soil?


boat anchors it is then

the best interests? you make it sound like there's long lines of illegals at emergecy rooms complaining of athlete's foot and dry cough ..it doesnt occur to any of you that the majority of illegals wouldnt want to walk into a building full public servants who could very easily call immigration ...in fact why doesnt Immigration camp out in front of hospitals and just wait for the illegals to stroll right in ..it's a no brainer and the non cartoon equivilent to catching them with a giant butterfly net

Considering that we have 60 million people in a country about the size of Florida (the real number is estimated to be closer to 100 million), I'd say the problems illegal immigration causes the UK are abundantly self-evident.
Not to mention the immense cultural problems involved in just letting people in without any kind of checks or requirements.

yadda yadda yadda ...boat anchors for sinking rufugee boats? there has to be some give somewhere right? stop sending aid to anyone, shut down charities across the board because it's not your responsibility ..oh and kindly bring up your children somwhere else because I dont want my kids to live in your world

Charities aren't self-defense mechanisms, and are entirely voluntary. They do not breach anyone's democratic rights.
There's a clear and distinct difference between voluntarily giving to a cause you believe in (charity) and being forced to sacrifice something in order to fulfil someone else's idea of the greater good (eg. endorsed illegal immigration).

that's all nice and dandy and sure does sound good on paper however in practicallity it's not such a clear cut issue ..if it were they'd be handing out coat hangers at the border

Well, this country sure ain't getting any better the more crowded and socially isolated it gets.

 

[No Limit]

Sorted out?
No, don't speak for me. It quite clearly remains unfair that unskilled Mexicans who can't even speak English and create rifts in society are given priority over skilled professionals with a high degree of cultural affinity.
It just isn't particularly relevant at this point in time.

Okay, then. So even if you refused to address my rebuttal to this in the previous thread you are going to repeat this same bullshit?

I already made you an offer, if you want to come in here illegally come right on in. I'll even find you a shitty job. You want me to pm you my phone number so we can arrange this?

If you don't want to do this then stfu about how unfair it is.

Immigration is a two-way street, so your comment is bullshit. Visas aren't granted because of what the individual might gain, they're granted on the whim of the official based on the policy of the government.
Completely irrelevant.

I don't get what you are saying. We give out a very limited amounts of visas to foreign countries. The same people that think mexicans should be here want to abolish or at least limit those visas.

So if you don't qualify for one of those visas because there are a million people a head of you tough luck, life isn't fair. Enjoy your country, but stay out of mine. We don't need you here to take our high paying jobs, afterall, we aren't a charity, we're a country.

 

[repiV]

Okay, then. So even if you refused to address my rebuttal to this in the previous thread you are going to repeat this same bullshit?

No, I just couldn't be arsed to discuss politics with you at that moment in time. It's not refusal, more like apathy.

I already made you an offer, if you want to come in here illegally come right on in. I'll even find you a shitty job. You want me to pm you my phone number so we can arrange this?

Why would I want to come in illegally?

If you don't want to do this then stfu about how unfair it is.

Repeating your same infantile "challenge" doesn't make you any more correct now than you were before. You're in serious danger of believing your own hype.

I don't get what you are saying. We give out a very limited amounts of visas to foreign countries. The same people that think mexicans should be here want to abolish or at least limit those visas.

I don't get what you're saying, either.

So if you don't qualify for one of those visas because there are a million people a head of you tough luck, life isn't fair. Enjoy your country, but stay out of mine. We don't need you here to take our high paying jobs, afterall, we aren't a charity, we're a country.

What's your point?
Tough luck indeed, I'll take my talents somewhere else. It's not a massive loss to me at the end of the day, I'll contribute to someone else's economy instead.
Using a tone that makes you sound like an aggravating **** to make a point that I obviously agree with doesn't really help your argument any.
I'm allowed to complain about things without disputing the right of the authorities to impose that policy, am I not?

 

[CptStern]

what? dont roll your eyes at me ..it's a valid point, one in which you know you cant answer without looking bad ....boat anchors it is

Considering that we have 60 million people in a country about the size of Florida (the real number is estimated to be closer to 100 million), I'd say the problems illegal immigration causes the UK are abundantly self-evident.

ok can we keep it on the US of A cuz I'm getting confused here and I'm not familiar with your illegal immigration "crisis"

Not to mention the immense cultural problems involved in just letting people in without any kind of checks or requirements.

ya like poverty, no healthcare, shoddy quality of life ..but god forbid they inconvience you in any way

Charities aren't self-defense mechanisms, and are entirely voluntary. They do not breach anyone's democratic rights.

and giving aid to a mother who's about to give birth somehow is? and charities are not entirely voluntary ..some of your tax dollars goes into it charitable works

Well, this country sure ain't getting any better the more crowded and socially isolated it gets.

and that problem stems solely from illegal immigration? I think illegal immigration is the least of your worries atm ..but i digress ..can we stick to one country?