Live dog dissection

[15357]

Unit 731?

i think so.


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anyway, poor doggie..

 

[CptStern]

Hey i don't know every situation which happens with these things. Perhaps there could be morons doing this without sedation, i don't know, but as the article goes he intends to use a sedative. I mean i can't see him not using one, getting the dog pinning him doing then opening him up in front of all those students. Yeah i know theres loads of morons out there who may doing this practice unlawfully, but as far as this goes in this situation he's going to be using a sedative. I'm not debating that animals that havent been anaesthetised should be stopped, that goes without saying, thats a wickedly cruel thing, and i would NEVER support anything like that. This situation, in front of students i'm saying would be lawful a with use of sedative.

And yes most comestic experiments on animals are not good, but as far as i'm aware this is in the name of teaching biological principles.

yes I agree, but checks and balances have to be put into place so that animals do not suffer ...unforetunately very few clinics give a shit cuz sedatives cost money. Oh and it's not just a few "morons" this is industry wide. Animals are suffering needlessly on a daily basis all around the world in the name of science ..and most of the times the findings from these expreiments are never published and therefore are a waste

 

[Shippi]

.

 

[short recoil]

Does it really matter if animals suffer though?
It might be because i have a low level of emotion towards others but i frankly don't care how much suffering an animal has.
Call me evil or whatever you like but an animal suffering dosn't effect anything else.

 

[CptStern]

Does it really matter if animals suffer though?
It might be because i have a low level of emotion towards others but i frankly don't care how much suffering an animal has.
Call me evil or whatever you like but an animal suffering dosn't effect anything else.

that's nice, live in a vacuum why dont cha? No empathy for suffering leads to poor social skills later in life. Seriously some of you need a reality check, your blase attitude towards suffering some of you exhibit is more than a little disconcerting

 

[kirovman]

that's nice, live in a vacuum why dont cha? No empathy for suffering leads to poor social skills later in life. Seriously some of you need a reality check, your blase attitude towards suffering some of you exhibit is more than a little disconcerting

Empathy, a life skill, needs to be learnt.

Those that don't learn it end up becoming the Washington sniper, being a bandit, invading Iraq etc.

 

[short recoil]

that's nice, live in a vacuum why dont cha? No empathy for suffering leads to poor social skills later in life. Seriously some of you need a reality check, your blase attitude towards suffering some of you exhibit is more than a little disconcerting

While i might have little feeling for others it does not mean i can't work in a soceity, i know it is to my advantage to live in soceity and provide for it, i help another person, they help me.

It makes no difference if you use animals to help your soceity, wether it be food, research or whatever, helping an animal will only help you in small ways (having a pet dog can be good)

 

[satch919]

Does it really matter if animals suffer though?
It might be because i have a low level of emotion towards others but i frankly don't care how much suffering an animal has.
Call me evil or whatever you like but an animal suffering dosn't effect anything else.

Yes, it does matter. Animals are capable of showing emotion. You're an animal aren't you? We're all animals.

Thats a pretty cold thing to say on your part. Your total lack of sympathy and compassion is pretty sad.

 

[short recoil]

Yes, it does matter. Animals are capable of showing emotion. You're an animal aren't you? We're all animals.

Thats a pretty cold thing to say on your part. Your total lack of sympathy and compassion is pretty sad.

Yes we are all animals, what does the fact an animal is capable of showing emotion effect how it should be treated?
Don't give me the "Oh if you were a rabbit you wouldn't like it" crap, those arguments make no useful sense at all.

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

short recoil is a cold hearted moron at times, but I do understand his reasoning in this case.

 

[CptStern]

While i might have little feeling for others it does not mean i can't work in a soceity, i know it is to my advantage to live in soceity and provide for it, i help another person, they help me.

while you may be able to function in a society, the lack of empathy will only get you so far ...I shudder to think how your base attitude to animal suffering translates to if and when you have children ..will you pass that on to your kids?

It makes no difference if you use animals to help your soceity, wether it be food, research or whatever, helping an animal will only help you in small ways (having a pet dog can be good)

the exact opposite is true ..animal research is a mixed blessing at best ...it's not reliable and really serves no purpose.

Helping an animal will go a long way, not helping it only strips you further from humaity. It's this sort of detachment to empathy that is responsible for many of the ills of society. An example of this would be that case in new york where a woman was brutally raped and beaten to death within direct earshot of hundreds of people ..she could have been saved had someone been "bothered" to get invloved

 

[Laivasse]

that's nice, live in a vacuum why dont cha? No empathy for suffering leads to poor social skills later in life. Seriously some of you need a reality check, your blase attitude towards suffering some of you exhibit is more than a little disconcerting

What Stern said.

Plus - newsflash people, this wasn't cancer research. It's just a school. Contrary to popular belief you don't actually learn that much there. Do you think these kids are going to go home and say "wow, I learned how a dog's digestive system worked today!"? or are they going to say "whoa, I saw a dog get cut up while it was still alive!"? I know what everyone in my school, including me, would have said.

Fair enough people doing this kind of thing back in the 17th century when we were still trying to figure out the way the universe worked - and were pretty brutal about how we did it - but I'm pretty sure we KNOW how a dog's digestive system works by now. What the layman can't learn from a book in this regard, they don't need to know. I'm not certain that this sort of thing really needs to go on at all any more, let alone just for the sake of provoking the bloody mindedness of kids, or making some Emmett Brown wannabe feel like he's pushing the boundaries of teaching.

 

[SimonomiS]

Did the students actually learn anything from it in the end? Or were they too busy being outraged they didn't even make the most of it?

Offtopic but .

 

[15357]

this should be in the politics section, btw.

Yes we are all animals, what does the fact an animal is capable of showing emotion effect how it should be treated?

well, nothing...

 

[CptStern]

Yes we are all animals, what does the fact an animal is capable of showing emotion effect how it should be treated?
Don't give me the "Oh if you were a rabbit you wouldn't like it" crap, those arguments make no useful sense at all.

so in other words, because an animal can feel pain it doesnt necessitate that the clinics do everything in their power from preventing pain? "this animal serves a purpose and because of that selfish purpose we should be able to do whatever we want with it" ...sorry but as far as I'm concerned companies do NOT own lifeforms, nor do they have a right to do what they want with a life form

what a sorry world we live in if everyone felt the same way you did

 

[short recoil]

while you may be able to function in a society, the lack of empathy will only get you so far ...I shudder to think how your base attitude to animal suffering translates to if and when you have children ..will you pass that on to your kids?

Well, i'm not having children so i never need to think of this.
And no, i'm not "immature" by saying this like when kids say "i'm not having kids, i'm gonna live in a tree house with david and peter!"
I've stated why i have no intention of having kids in other threads.

Helping an animal will go a long way, not helping it only strips you further from humaity. It's this sort of detachment to empathy that is responsible for many of the ills of society. An example of this would be that case in new york where a woman was brutally raped and beaten to death within direct earshot of hundreds of people ..she could have been saved had someone been "bothered" to get invloved

Well, if we all learnt to get along properly then we wouldn't need to sort out problems caused by idiots, i have never caused anyone harm in my life, only helped people
Don't ever go thinking that my way of thinking makes me bad, i've probably done more "nice" things than all of you put together.
There is no set rule for being human, you cannot be stripped from humanity.

EDIT:

so in other words, because an animal can feel pain it doesnt necessitate that the clinics do everything in their power from preventing pain? "this animal serves a purpose and because of that selfish purpose we should be able to do whatever we want with it" ...sorry but as far as I'm concerned companies do NOT own lifeforms, nor do they have a right to do what they want with a life form

what a sorry world we live in if everyone felt the same way you did

Well bud, you better get used to the fact that we have been using animals for thousands of years, i presume you are one of the people that thinks life is special in that it's a blessing.
A bag of food can be converted into several baby rabbits, these rabbits can be eaten, it serves its purpose and that's all that matters.
Of course a rabbit has more rights than a tree for some reason.
Oh noes, lets not buy some furniture, it was made from a lifeform!
Again we come back to the argument of intelligent life and emotions, from what i see people are gauging an animals "rights" on it's intelligence/emotional capability.

 

[15357]

this has turned into a hostile "everyone VS short recoil" type of thread...

 

[short recoil]

this has turned into a hostile "everyone VS short recoil" type of thread...

When i was at college, the girls from the "animal rights and vegetarian club" loved me

 

[Laivasse]

Again we come back to the argument of intelligent life and emotions, from what i see people are gauging an animals "rights" on it's intelligence/emotional capability.

You have a fair enough way of looking at the world if you're consistent. And to be consistent you have to extend that to humans - just because we are self-aware and have the best developed minds, that doesn't entitle us to any special rights (the right not to feel unnecessary pain, or be variously screwed over).

Which again is fair enough - but then you've got a worldview which approaches anarchy, because the only rights you get are the ones you take. And anarchy's cool and all, but it just doesn't work. Who looks after the disabled in an anarchy? Is Stephen Hawking writing books or is he dead in a ditch after some chav took his chair for a joyride?

Soooo....IMO empathy has to start somewhere. Smart animals, like dogs, are a good place to start.

 

[CptStern]

Well, i'm not having children so i never need to think of this.

regardless if you plan to have kids or not, you will need to empathy ...you'll understand when you're a little older

And no, i'm not "immature" by saying this like when kids say "i'm not having kids, i'm gonna live in a tree house with david and peter!"

I dont know what you're trying to get at

I've stated why i have no intention of having kids in other threads.

it's none of my business what choice YOU make for YOUR life ...but once it affects others around you, you become fair game

Well, if we all learnt to get along properly then we wouldn't need to sort out problems caused by idiots,

so in other words all bad things are prepetrated by people who are sub-intelligent? that doesnt explain iraq now does it?

i have never caused anyone harm in my life, only helped people
Don't ever go thinking that my way of thinking makes me bad, i've probably done more "nice" things than all of you put together.

I doubt it, but that's not the point ...oh and you can cause just as much good/harm by not helping as you do by helping

There is no set rule for being human, you cannot be stripped from humanity.

yes you can ..it's more than abundantly clear in places like abu-gharib

Well bud, you better get used to the fact that we have been using animals for thousands of years, i presume you are one of the people that thinks life is special in that it's a blessing.

for thousands of years men believed women were sub-humans ...because that was the accepted norm it doesnt mean it's right

A bag of food can be converted into several baby rabbits, these rabbits can be eaten, it serves its purpose and that's all that matters.

using that language you can justify slavery or even the holocasut "those jews served a purpose so that's all that matters

Of course a rabbit has more rights than a tree for some reason.

you'd be surprised but that is NOT the case ...trees are protected (on crown land) animals rarely are. Most developed nations still view animals as legal property (mostly cuz it benefits farmers)

Oh noes, lets not buy some furniture, it was made from a lifeform!
Again we come back to the argument of intelligent life and emotions, from what i see people are gauging an animals "rights" on it's intelligence/emotional capability.

no, ...animal rights has always been judged by the same criteria that determines whether humans have undeniable rights ..sentience is not good enough, there must be some other factor that comes into play: I call it the "cute" factor ..people are outraged when they learn the local vetrinary is selling euthanised dogs to the local dog food comglomerate, yet when these same dogs are abondonded or left to die under horrible circumstances everyone turns a blind eye