Local Council Elections

[gick]

Sooooooo, most of the results are in, and it looks like a bloody nose for Labour, big gains for the Tories, a shoddy performance from the Liberal Democrats, and a better than expected result for the BNP.

TBH, I'm bloody annoyed by the result, but not at all suprised. When a party has been in power for this long it always does badly in the local elections - I just wish the main beneficiaries of this werent the Tories. As for the Liberal Democrats (my party of choice) this was yet another wasted opportunity.

As for the BNP, I've been curled up in a little ball whispering 'its only a protest vote, its only a protest vote'. They gained a seat on my local council in their first year running. When I get into school I'm going to slap everybody who didnt vote to stop that arse from getting in.

Here is the BBC election map for you to see how things went for your area.

Discuss!

 

[Kangy]

Lib Dems indeed could have done way more to get votes than this. Menzies is in my opinion old and boring, the exact opposite of Kennedy. Who everyone liked, regardless of alcohol problems. Still, they beat Labour in vote projections, as Labour received just 26% to Lib Dems 27%.

I reckon Blair might be out soon, at this rate.

 

[Sulkdodds]

Grhmm.

 

[el Chi]

Charles Kennedy was great. Oh, for the days when an alcohol dpendency wasn't a "problem" but a "manly character trait".
These results are saddening.

 

[clarky003]

lol, Conservative government on the way perhaps.

 

[Sulkdodds]

That's what she said (just before the 1992 election)!

 

[Solaris]

Yup the BNP won 7 seats on my council out of about 45. Thats about
makes my council about 17% Nazi.

On a happy note Respect did significantly well, hurrah!

 

[Mr Stabby]

respect are just as bad as the BNP

 

[CptStern]

lol, Conservative government on the way perhaps.

scary ..so when you guys say conservative do you mean neo-con foam at the mouth raving radicalism or just slightly right of center? cuz in at least one country in north america there is only an "either or" scenario no in between (at least on the leadership/party level)

 

[Mr Stabby]

the conservatives are turning into the Lib Dems, and Labour are becoming the conservatives.

 

[CptStern]

yes but I need something to compare it to ..Canadian conservatives are night and day difference from American republicans ..our Liberals make the american democrats look like conservatives ..and even they are just slightly left of center

 

[gick]

the conservatives are turning into the Lib Dems, and Labour are becoming the conservatives.

Naaah, its more like

1995: Tony Blair becomes Labour leader - Labour become Pre-Thatcher Conservatives (New Labour)
2006: David Cameron becomes Conservative leader, Conservatives become New Labour

Both parties are still a long way off becoming the Lib Dems.

@ Stern: Its often difficult to compare Conservatives, as conservatism as an ideology is depentant on the culture it inhabits.

The Conservative party (UK) traditionally is right wing economically, and authoritarian socially. Basically they are a less extreme version of the Republicans, excpet they are avowedly secular (as are all UK political parties except the BNP) and dont like the idea of federalism.

 

[Solaris]

respect are just as bad as the BNP

Right you've said that.
Now back it up.

You just called me my freinds and familly as bad as the BNP, which pretty pisses me off as I know how bad the BNP are.

Heres my argument.

Respect is a backronym for Respect, Equality, Socialism, Peace, Enviromentalism, Community, and Trade Unionism.

Are any of thoose similar to the core values of the BNP?

From the BNP's consitution:

stands for the preservation of the national and ethnic character of the British people and is wholly opposed to any form of racial integration between British and non-European peoples

So, just to clarify, they believe in racial supperiority.

Oh and

• The repeal of all equality and anti-discrimination legislation, including measures aimed at employing people with disabilities.
• The reunification of the United Kingdom and the Republic of Ireland in a 'federation of the nations of the British Isles'[25]

Holy shit, I didn't even know about the Irealand one! Grr. Now I hate the ****ers even more.

Respect on the Other Hand want:

• Renationalisation of all public transport, including rail and bus networks and creation of a fully integrated national system to include cycling, light rail schemes and facilities for pedestrians. Halt all closures of rural lines and implement programme increasing frequency of services and improving reliability and reopen previously closed lines where possible. Campaign for EU legislation to compel increased energy efficiency for all aircraft landing in or flying over EU, with a view to extending this worldwide.
  [*]Decent, secure jobs with a future. This includes a minimum wage set at the European Union Decency threshold (currently £7.40 an hour). Instead of encouraging high street 'McJobs', the government should be investing in apprenticeships, with jobs upon completion, for young people
  [*]Free, comprehensive education for all young people, from nursery to university. This includes the ending of tuition fees in higher education and the PFI funding of schools
  [*]Respect calls for the immediate writing off of all 'Third World' debt and an end to the neo-liberal policies forced on the 'Third World' by the IMF and World Bank.

Go ahead, show how we're 'just as bad'.

 

[Bob_Marley]

Looks like that Labor are going to have some trouble in the next general election. Which is nice.

 

[Mr Stabby]

Respect is a backronym for Respect, Equality, Socialism, Peace, Enviromentalism, Community, and Trade Unionism.

are you six years old? Do you seriously think an faciful hippy name is a credible attribute.


Respects policies are very unworkable and niave, so if they were ever in charge they would cause a lot of damage to the country, hence as bad as the BNP.

 

[Kangy]

The things they propose aren't even workable, imagine the taxes...

 

[VictimOfScience]

are you six years old? Do you seriously think an faciful hippy name is a credible attribute.

You're right. It would be RESPECTU anyway if he were at all accurate....

 

[Sulkdodds]

scary ..so when you guys say conservative do you mean neo-con foam at the mouth raving radicalism or just slightly right of center? cuz in at least one country in north america there is only an "either or" scenario no in between (at least on the leadership/party level)

Well...

...originally, the Conservative party was based on the central tenet that A) they were the natural party-in-government and B) they were pragmatic and C) they were economically sound. That's their thing. Before 1945 they would have been against a welfare state; after the devastation of the war and in light of popular support, they were all for it. Until the late 70s, the Conservative party was different from others because it was less about ideology than simply getting into government. Pragmatism, full stop.

However, this 'One Nation Conservatism' was mixed with a dose of 'conservatism' by the definition of the word - if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I think it's safe to say that they were always right-leaning and socially authoritarian, but (in the latter case at least) perhaps only because authoritarianism was part of the past they weren't particularly interested in just throwing away. I think it's also safe to say, though, that such an approach attracted a lot of people with stronger opinions on things. Authoritarian, socially regressive opinions.

[It should be noted that they were always very much in favour of one state as opposed to federalism or any other form of devolution - even if they were after small government.]

In 1979, Thatcher won the election for them. Her philosophy was neo-liberalism/Thatcherism which was a lot more of a strong, rigid ideology. This was successful at the beginning, but would later prove the party's downfall. Extremely pro-free-market, go go gadget privatisation, low tax, screw you trade unions, nationalism (the common-or-garden kind, not so much the British Nazi Party kind). Also extremely socially conservative - the start of a long love affair with the nuclear family (with matching nuclear weapons) and, er, homophobia (ie. Section 28. This kind of thing was what motivated V for Vendetta - that should tell you something about the Thatcherites). They were far more like your modern republican party.

Thatcher messed up big time in the late 80s and was kicked out, John Major winning in 1992. He was more One Nationish, although still focused on the family with his 'back to basics campaign'. He failed, really.

The modern conservative party, if David Cameron is to be believed, shares a lot more in common with the 70s One Nation conservatives (updated with all-new progressive social policy...apparently) than with the Thatcherites and uber-Eurosceptics. For a long time the tories have been split between these groups - those who want to move forward and those who were still Thatcheritish. That's why the Tories were being so shit for a very long time - utterly divided. But it's about reached the point now where many of the Thatcherites and Eurosceptics are willing to keep quiet in order to just get back in government. See? Pragmatism.

 

[Kangy]

Cameron's just Tony Blair's clone from 1997 that has been awoken in 2004 in order to revive the sinking New Labour government from within the already sunkern Tories. The Lib Dems are... where are they? None of the parties can solve problems right now, and it's ridiculous that history will just repeat itself as David Cameron swoops to victory sooner or later.

The Cabinet reshuffle is simply Tony Blair's last attempt to avoid having to watch himself go under. Why was Jack Straw fired exactly? I thought he was the most competent of any of Blair's ministers. At this rate he'll be lucky to see the year out. Gordon Brown needs to get in there quickly imo.

 

[Solaris]

are you six years old? Do you seriously think an faciful hippy name is a credible attribute.


Respects policies are very unworkable and niave, so if they were ever in charge they would cause a lot of damage to the country, hence as bad as the BNP.

You don't understand the BNP at all do you?

"The electors of Millwall did not back a postmodernist rightist party, but what they perceived to be a strong, disciplined organisation with the ability to back up its slogan 'Defend Rights for Whites' with well-directed boots and fists. When the crunch comes, power is the product of force and will, not of rational debate.

Hmmm, sounds like facism to me.

Tony Lecomber was jailed for possessing explosives in 1985, after a nail bomb exploded while he was carrying it to the offices of the Workers' Revolutionary Party [62]; and for assault in 1991, when he almost killed a Jewish teacher who was removing a BNP sticker at a London Underground station [63]. He was Propaganda Director of the BNP at the time of the latter conviction.[19] He was Nick Griffin's key deputy in the party from 1999 until January 2006.

Jesus, the leaders deputy had convictions for Trying to bail bomb another poltical party, NAIL BOMB.

How can you at all make a comparrison. What are you thinking?
"I know the BNP like the whole genocide idea and all, but that ****ing Respect guy has some economic policies that could cut efficency by 3%, the bastard!"

 

[Mr Stabby]

You need to pull your head out of George Galloway's arse.

I am well aware the BNP are a far right racist organisation, and that it's a bad thing.

You don't actually seem to know anything about nazi or fascist ideology (apart from OMG RACIST!). Firstly there is a difference between nazies and fascist, hence the two differnet words. Fascism founded by Mussolini's associates , was born out of socialism, Mussolini was himself a former socialist. The fascist were a pro-war, anti- democracy organisation. They only adopted an anti-semitic message when Mussolini was Hitler's puppet. Nazism on the other hand had anti-semitism and white supremecy at it's core.

"I know the BNP like the whole genocide idea and all, but that ****ing Respect guy has some economic policies that could cut efficency by 3%, the bastard!"

There is no need to invent things about the BNP, they do a lot of bad things themselves (they don't say anywhere that they advocate genocide). There is a pretty big step between petty racsim and the systematic murder of an ethnic group,

also the Respect policies, would cripple the econmey, as well as cause social choas, it's pratically communism.

 

[Solaris]

You need to pull your head out of George Galloway's arse.

I am well aware the BNP are a far right racist organisation, and that it's a bad thing.

You don't actually seem to know anything about nazi or fascist ideology (apart from OMG RACIST!). Firstly there is a difference between nazies and fascist, hence the two differnet words. Fascism founded by Mussolini's associates , was born out of socialism, Mussolini was himself a former socialist. The fascist were a pro-war, anti- democracy organisation. They only adopted an anti-semitic message when Mussolini was Hitler's puppet. Nazism on the other hand had anti-semitism and white supremecy at it's core.

Fascism can and has been applied to the Nazis, and alot of other similar groups.

There is no need to invent things about the BNP, they do a lot of bad things themselves (they don't say anywhere that they advocate genocide). There is a pretty big step between petty racsim and the systematic murder of an ethnic group,

I would not put it past them, re. the guy with the Nail bomb.

also the Respect policies, would cripple the econmey, as well as cause social choas, it's pratically communism.

Socialism actually. And which policies and how?

 

[Mr Stabby]

Fascism can and has been applied to the Nazis, and alot of other similar groups.

only by those ignorant of the difference

I would not put it past them, re. the guy with the Nail bomb.

It's still a big jump to genocide, especially with halocaust only 60 years ago, I doubt they would go that far.

Socialism actually. And which policies and how?

- "Heavy fines for companies that pollute environment to make it more cost-effective for them to implement safeguards against pollution incidents."

ridiculous, how is fining them going to allow them to pay for the very very very expensive measures needed to go green, it will only shut down industry in this country, and multinationals will go to other countries.

- also all the tax the crap out of everything not working class policies, best way to stagnate an economey is for the government to take all the money.

there are more non- socialist but equally rubbish policies, I hope I don't need to explain those

 

[Solaris]

only by those ignorant of the difference



It's still a big jump to genocide, especially with halocaust only 60 years ago, I doubt they would go that far.

I hope so, but this party is filled with very violent thugs.

- "Heavy fines for companies that pollute environment to make it more cost-effective for them to implement safeguards against pollution incidents."

ridiculous, how is fining them going to allow them to pay for the very very very expensive measures needed to go green, it will only shut down industry in this country, and multinationals will go to other countries.

How would you deal with it? Plus, alot of things would be nationalised anyway, transport for instance. We would need a hell of alot less oil if we all used public transport. Plus, that quotes about fining companys that have oil spills and chemical leaks, to make sure they put safegaurds their to stop them having to pay fines.

- also all the tax the crap out of everything not working class policies, best way to stagnate an economey is for the government to take all the money.

I would disagree, we can still progress without it being driven by the desire for profit.

there are more non- socialist but equally rubbish policies, I hope I don't need to explain those

Well yes, if you want to say their as bad as the BNP policies, then yes you do need to describe them.

 

[Mr Stabby]

There is no point in explaining why the other policies are rubbish if you can't except the flaws in those policies, you have a dilousional communist veiwpoint.

 

[Solaris]

There is no point in explaining why the other policies are rubbish if you can't except the flaws in those policies, you have a dilousional communist veiwpoint.

That's not a proper argument. It's just slander.

 

[Mr Stabby]

I am only pointing out that 'respect' can do no wrong in your opinion, which makes this debate futile

 

[Solaris]

I am only pointing out that 'respect' can do no wrong in your opinion, which makes this debate futile

I don't actually agree with their animal reserach policies, so there.

Now, you still have yet to back up your statement that they are as bad as the BNP.

 

[SAJ]

You need to pull your head out of George Galloway's arse.

I am well aware the BNP are a far right racist organisation, and that it's a bad thing.

You don't actually seem to know anything about nazi or fascist ideology (apart from OMG RACIST!). Firstly there is a difference between nazies and fascist, hence the two differnet words. Fascism founded by Mussolini's associates , was born out of socialism, Mussolini was himself a former socialist. The fascist were a pro-war, anti- democracy organisation. They only adopted an anti-semitic message when Mussolini was Hitler's puppet. Nazism on the other hand had anti-semitism and white supremecy at it's core.


Quote:
"I know the BNP like the whole genocide idea and all, but that ****ing Respect guy has some economic policies that could cut efficency by 3%, the bastard!"


There is no need to invent things about the BNP, they do a lot of bad things themselves (they don't say anywhere that they advocate genocide). There is a pretty big step between petty racsim and the systematic murder of an ethnic group,

also the Respect policies, would cripple the econmey, as well as cause social choas, it's pratically communism.

Hmmm, it does sound like you would prefer to see the bnp get in rather than respect.
Care to comment?

 

[Mr Stabby]

I think they are both equally as bad, so no I wouldn't rather the BNP got in power

 

[Mr Stabby]

I don't actually agree with their animal reserach policies, so there.

Now, you still have yet to back up your statement that they are as bad as the BNP.

Animal research policies are trivial

You have already proven in the 'BNP support set to rise' thread that you don't understand the economey or society. If you did you would see that Respect's policies are unworkable and if implimented would destroy the UK economically.

Destroying the economey is on par with the BNP's 'white Britain policy' as far as bad concepts go.

 

[el Chi]

Respect's policies are almost perfectly tailored to keep Galloway in power in his constituency, and his constituency alone.
This would be the constituency he neglected, so he could make a complete fool out of himself by going on Big Brother.
The man is an utter arse.

 

[Sulkdodds]

Yeah, that's my objection to them too.

 

[el Chi]

Small-scale megalomania; delusions of self-importance; a shady, shady past with so much smoke that there just has to be some fire and so full of conceited hypocrisy you could bottle it and sell it on eBay: What's not to like about George Galloway?

 

[Solaris]

We must remember that he's the only socialist MP, so of course the media is going to go for him. Big Brother was a mistake, but it was only two weeks, most MP's don't go to parliament for 2 weeks everynow and then.
He was a bit niave, and made a mistake. But think about him going to the sentate, that was heroic, he's done loads of great things and that's what I will think of when I will think of George Galloway, the media, as proven in the daily telegraph court case, are just out to get him, he's a threat to theor capitlaist leaders.

You have already proven in the 'BNP support set to rise' thread that you don't understand the economey or society. If you did you would see that Respect's policies are unworkable and if implimented would destroy the UK economically.

Destroying the economey is on par with the BNP's 'white Britain policy' as far as bad concepts go.

No, they would reform it.

 

[Mr Stabby]

No, they would reform it.

They seek to put it under state control, that's very bad. Economies are driven by private enterprise, without the econemy collapses (USSR is a prime example, as is the economic boom China is facing, after relaxing state controls)

 

[Solaris]

They seek to put it under state control, that's very bad. Economies are driven by private enterprise, without the econemy collapses (USSR is a prime example, as is the economic boom China is facing, after relaxing state controls)

These were still drivenby profit, just state profit.
Socialism would have them run for use.

 

[Mr Stabby]

the indusry in the USSR was driven by state profit....

 

[el Chi]

We must remember that he's the only socialist MP, so of course the media is going to go for him. Big Brother was a mistake, but it was only two weeks, most MP's don't go to parliament for 2 weeks everynow and then.
He was a bit niave, and made a mistake. But think about him going to the sentate, that was heroic, he's done loads of great things and that's what I will think of when I will think of George Galloway, the media, as proven in the daily telegraph court case, are just out to get him, he's a threat to theor capitlaist leaders.

Big Brother was a huge mistake, and he was massively naive.
His tirade in the Senate was funny and impressive but "heroic" is sheer hyperbole.
You're right, the media don't particularly like him, but that's in part because there's a lot not to like about him, not because of some grand conspiracy to protect their capitalist leaders - Solaris, do you really believe a conspiracy theory like that, or are you just trying to justify the bad press he gets with unfounded speculation?

 

[Solaris]

Big Brother was a huge mistake, and he was massively naive.
His tirade in the Senate was funny and impressive but "heroic" is sheer hyperbole.
You're right, the media don't particularly like him, but that's in part because there's a lot not to like about him, not because of some grand conspiracy to protect their capitalist leaders - Solaris, do you really believe a conspiracy theory like that, or are you just trying to justify the bad press he gets with unfounded speculation?

Why do you think the Daily Mail spreads so much lies about Asylum, the war, well ****ing everything? They have a conservative agenda.

the indusry in the USSR was driven by state profit....

Thus the term - State Capitalist.