Lombardi: "We chose the wrong word in 'episode'"

[V-Man339]

What else could they have used I wonder.

 

[dogboy73]

What else could they have used I wonder.

They could have just stuck with the original idea. What turned into HL2: EP1 was originally going to be HL2: Aftermath. The reason they changed it into EP1 was because of the idea of 'episodic' content that was meant to appear somewhat more regularly than what it actually is. By the time EP3 comes out the total production time of the 3 episodes is probably going to exceed the production time of HL2 by at least a year. That's fine with me but it's not what Valve originally intended that's for sure.

 

[G(ordon)-man]

Maybe they should release ep3 merged together with ep2 and 1 and name it Half Life 3?

 

[Hunter-Killer]

Maybe they should release ep3 merged together with ep2 and 1 and name it Half Life 3?

Nah that would be tacky and its still in the time line of Half-Life 2.
They should make it the Aftermath for people who haven't already played the Episodes.

I've always hoped that once they have completed the "Episodes" that they will combine all 3 of them and create the "Aftermath".

 

[ShadowJustice]

they should call them "Half-life 2: mission pack 1 and 2" or "half-life 2: add on disk 1 and 2".

 

[Druckles]

But they're neither mission packs nor expansion packs. They're full games that extend the storyline to the next chapter.

 

[Fiberawptic]

Im a little confused, why the hell does the name justify anything? Aftermath or Episode, its still parts of the continuing HL2 story. The Episodes come out every 2 years max, which is more often than the 6 years half life 2 took. SO they are still more like t.v episodes than movie releases like the normal HL2. yeah, they dont come out as often as people would like but its sure more often than 6 years... Can someone explain this to me?

 

[Druckles]

Yes. 6 years was for an entirely new engine the first time.

The second 6 years didn't involve a new engine.

Explain that to me.

 

[Fiberawptic]

Yes. 6 years was for an entirely new engine the first time.

The second 6 years didn't involve a new engine.

Explain that to me.

Stop counting the episodic time frame by how long it takes for ALL episodes to be finished. The reason valve approached the episodic delivery was so the gamers didn't have to wait 6 years to play a new half life game. Now Episode 1 came out a year and a half after HL2, not 6 years. The idea is that you get each episode when they come out, play them, and are satisfied until the next episode comes out, not wait until all the episodes come out and then play them, see? It would be a 7 year wait to play a new half life game after HL2, versus a 1 year wait for an episode. And yea, the episodes are gonna be shorter... DUHHHHHH.

 

[Absinthe]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

I would much like another full Half-Life title that continues the trajectory set from HL1 to HL2. And I don't mind waiting another 6 or 7 years for it if it will give the same pant-shitting awesome sensation that was the unveiling of Half-Life 2. Maybe it's just because I'm high right now, but don't you think having that legacy broken up into more frequent intervals takes a bit of the fun out of that? =P

 

[Druckles]

Stop counting the episodic time frame by how long it takes for ALL episodes to be finished.

Valve said themselves the episodes were equivalent to a Half-Life 3. Rest of argument has been nullified.

 

[Fiberawptic]

Valve said themselves the episodes were equivalent to a Half-Life 3. Rest of argument has been nullified.

They said it was Half life 3 broken down into three shorter bits so people can get their hands on it sooner. i guess you're unable to counter any of my other valid points, so its all been nullified, lmao...

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

I would much like another full Half-Life title that continues the trajectory set from HL1 to HL2.

Dude, i agree, a HL3 with new engine/ chracters, story arc would be the bomb if they could pull it off. but just because i would love this doesn't mean ill denounce the episodes as any good. it was a great idea and they were perfectly executed, but no matter how good the qaulity, i would like a longer game...

 

[kineaesth]

By 'Half Life 3' do you mean 'Half Life 2 Aftermath'?

 

[wormstrangler]

Valve said themselves the episodes were equivalent to a Half-Life 3. Rest of argument has been nullified.

They also said the Episodes would be released every 6 months. Don't believe everything anyone says.

I'm certain that there will be a separate HL3 built on a new engine (source2).

 

[Druckles]

They said it was Half life 3 broken down into three shorter bits so people can get their hands on it sooner. i guess you're unable to counter any of my other valid points, so its all been nullified, lmao...

I never said "Half-Life 3 wasn't broken into smaller bits" and I didn't say "people didn't get their hands on each individual bit sooner on average", but what you don't appear to realise is that you don't get your entire story until the episodes are finished, finito, complete, all released. People can't get their hands on "it" sooner, because it would be the entire thing. Our maths appear to be contrasting and thus we do not agree.

Also, the rest of your arguments were based on this one, so by taking away the foundation for your post, I essentially take away the reasoning behind your entire post.

ill denounce the episodes as any good.

Woah, woah, woah, woah!

No-one said the episodes were any good. We were merely pointing out that Valve have contradicted themselves.

If you think we don't like the episodes, you're arguing with yourself.

They also said the Episodes would be released every 6 months. Don't believe everything anyone says.

I'm certain that there will be a separate HL3 built on a new engine (source2).

I'm not. I doubt they'll ever scrap source. I think they'll revamp it a lot if they did a Half-Life 3. I think Source is practically a trademark of Valve, and keeping it with them is beneficial.

 

[Fiberawptic]

I never said "Half-Life 3 wasn't broken into smaller bits" and I didn't say "people didn't get their hands on each individual bit sooner on average", but what you don't appear to realise is that you don't get your entire story until the episodes are finished, finito, complete, all released. People can't get their hands on "it" sooner, because it would be the entire thing. Our maths appear to be contrasting and thus we do not agree.

The term 'LMAO' couldn't fit better in any other situation than this. Clearly YOUR not getting MY points. I never said YOU said HL3 was broken into smaller bits, i said valve said it. And thats the reason why they made the episodes, its broken down so it comes out more often. Im on the edge of wrapping this up, because i just think we're going in circles and i don't think you understand what im saying most of the time...

.



I'm not. I doubt they'll ever scrap source. I think they'll revamp it a lot if they did a Half-Life 3. I think Source is practically a trademark of Valve, and keeping it with them is beneficial.

You'd be suprised, Source can't last and be taken seriously forever, unless they did some serious, and i mean SERIOUS revamping, like which would take them years to do. I don't want to sound like a typical graphics whore, but they are soo damn good at keeping up with the latest technology and producing some of the best technologies ever, that i really think it would be great if they revisited that and made brand new engine which games couldn't top for years... they did this with the original HL2, id like to see it again.

 

[Druckles]

So why didn't they simply bring out a HL3?

 

[kineaesth]

Guys?

By 'Half Life 3' do you mean 'Half Life 2 Aftermath'?

I'm pretty sure the episodes were split up snippets of a planned expansion/continuation, Aftermath.

 

[Druckles]

I'm pretty sure Aftermath was always going to be Episode One, and I'm pretty sure it was most likely that Aftermath was predicted to be played by Alyx.

 

[kineaesth]

In that case, I'm entirely wrong, and I'll leave.

 

[Druckles]

I read it in a PCGamer an age ago.

 

[Fiberawptic]

So why didn't they simply bring out a HL3?

GAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!! Wow, BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO GIVE THEIR CUSTOMERS A NEW GAME TO PLAY SOONER THAN THE 7 YEARS FOR A HALF LIFE 3... Dude, it was all about timing. They wanted to give a new game, new engine or not, to the fans sooner than 7 years. Which they did, Episode 1 came out 1.5 years after HL2 vs. 7 years for a grander HL3.

You still dont understand it, do you???

 

[Druckles]

But it was no where near as long as a new game would have been.

So surely you agree that Episode One didn't satisfy their customers quite as much?

 

[Fiberawptic]

But it was no where near as long as a new game would have been.

So surely you agree that Episode One didn't satisfy their customers quite as much?

It wouldn't have satisfied them as much, BUT it would come to them (the fans) sooner, so they didnt have to wait as long. Its a trade-off thing, where the upside of Episodic was it is released more often than a grand, new game. The downside is the games wont be as long when they do arrive. See, it cant go both ways, its either, you get a large-length game which you'll have to wait longer for, or you wait less time for a shorter game...

valve took this decision, and obviously went with the EPisodic way, which was a smart move, because i mainly wanted the cliff-hanger and mysterious HL2 plot to be more revealed but not have to wait as long for the next game.... But after EPisode 3, i would LOVE to see a brand new, full scale game...

 

[MattyDienhoff]

I'm not sure the issue here is that 'episode' is the wrong word, but rather that the inclusion of 'Half-Life 2' in the title before it makes no sense. That's what I've been thinking since shortly after they came up it. Think about it, they'd already released a game named 'Half-Life 2', and then began on a series of episodic sequels to that game, named 'Half-Life 2: Episode #'. That makes no sense at all because anyone with no former knowledge of Half-Life 2, would assume the episodes are Half-Life 2, seperated into segments, not sequels to Half-Life 2.

Valve said themselves the episodes were equivalent to a Half-Life 3. Rest of argument has been nullified.

Exactly, which is why it would have made so much more sense if they'd named Half-Life 2: Episode One > Half-Life 3: Episode One or Half-Life 3: Part One...

Ah well, there's nothing anyone can do about it now, and the games are great anyway, whatever they're called.

 

[Hunter-Killer]

Everyone seems to be going round in circles here. From what I can tell in a nut shell they were going to make a full game, but thought hang on, it took us 7 years to make Half-Life 2, are fans are itching for more and if we start work on a new full game, by the time we are done the technology will be out of date and our fans will be getting bored. Simple they went for what I feel is the better route of splitting up their next big game into 3 pieces. This allows them to be more creative with what they do, from making the story deeper and more interesting to the game engine adding new lighting, effects etc. Sure these games are shorter and don't get me wrong when I finish an Episode I'm annoyed I can't play the next one but the quality we are getting is always there. Valve did think they would be able to get the Episodes out quicker than they have done, but I would rather wait for quality than be stuck with an average game. Plus it’s not like they don't give us other games to play along the line such as TF2 and now Left 4 Dead. I disagree with all this "It should be called Half-Life 3" because in my mind, Half-Life 3 would take place in a different timeline (much like how Half-Life was Black Mesa, and Half-Life 2 was City 17). Who knows what they will do after Episode 3, we don’t even know how it will affect the Half-Life story! I’m still hoping they merge all the Episodes and call it HL2: Aftermath, almost like an expansion to the Half-Life 2 story. Whatever they end up doing, I can guarantee that even if we are made to wait, it will be worth it.

 

[Laivasse]

I don't buy the idea that the Episodes together are equivalent to HL3 (regardless of what Valve said once upon a time), nor any notion that they are just the split up version of the next HL game Valve intended to make.

I don't think one can seriously say that had Valve gone for another monolithic release they would have kept the same setting, same arsenal, 95% same enemies, same plot points, and same NPCs apart from one minor addition. You could argue that we're going to see changes to all these things in Episode 3, but even if you believe that's true (which I don't) that's well over 50% of what would constitute this hypothetical HL3 using essentially the same gameplay components from HL2.

Releasing something episodically doesn't just mean you release shorter games more quickly, it results in a completely different type of game overall, once you take the episodes as a whole. For a simple demonstration of this, take a look at the weaponless intro-torial sections that have started each of the episodes so far - it would be bizarre to include more than one of these in a large-scale single release, yet over the course of Episodes 1-3 we're likely to have seen three of them, because they make sense in the context of an episode.

That's not to say I don't think the Episodes are inspired games, but you can't say that they're the same as what HL3 would have been, just split into smaller, more frequent chunks. They're not. They're more like Half-Life 2.5. When people say they would have preferred Valve not to go episodic it's because they want to see the HL game that Valve would have released otherwise, even if it would still be deep in development at this stage.

 

[dogboy73]

The idea is that you get each episode when they come out, play them, and are satisfied until the next episode comes out, not wait until all the episodes come out and then play them, see? It would be a 7 year wait to play a new half life game after HL2, versus a 1 year wait for an episode.

Meanwhile (hopefully) a team at Valve are already hard at work on the Source 2 engine so that by the time EP3 comes out work is already well underway on Half Life 3. Thus Half Life 3's development time to completion, from the release of EP3, will only be a few years at most. I think if this scenario turns out to be the case then the Episodes would have more than done their job of giving the fan base fantastic HL content in between major projects i.e. HL1 to HL2 (with sod all in between).

 

[kupocake]

My view on this is that Valve wanted to make Expansions for Half-Life 2, and realised that they'd created such a good game, that they could string them together and people would still be playing them by the end of the series, so long as they didn't call them Expansions.

Anyone on the outside reading this thread would think that 'more Half-Life 2' was the worst thing that Valve could have given us.