London and Birmingham Riots

[kazsymonds]

So we're just going to straight-up insult anyone who doesn't brand the riots as 100% hooligan behaviour with absolutely no basis in politics or economics?

Yes.

If there is some kind of coherent political or economical message in these riots, I'd love to hear it. The rioters they have interviewed on the BBC have been nothing better than mouthbreathing scum. The only consistent message seems to be "**** the po-lice" (because we have white english black american people in abundance).

Anyone that gives these riots any kind of acknowledgement is a moron.

For the record, I believe action can get results (like the 1980s poll tax protests / riots). These are senseless acts of petty crimes, carried out by the type of person you wouldn't let clean your shoes.

 

[Shift]

Shift - making people he argues against look good by comparison since 2006.

By your own pretentious opinion of course?

You know the insolence on this forum is sometimes enough to make me throw up.

 

[Krynn72]

You can't fight fire with fire.

Haha, its funny because thats what firefighters successfully do to stop fires.

 

[Smoke]

By your own pretentious opinion of course?

You know the insolence on this forum is sometimes enough to make me throw up.

Actually, you're just making yourself look like a bit of a twat.

 

[Eejit]

By your own pretentious opinion of course?

You know the insolence on this forum is sometimes enough to make me throw up.

You're making Solaris look reasonable and intelligent by comparison. As for insolence er...

I don't care if you are playing the devils advocate, just shut the **** up.

 

[CptStern]

By your own pretentious opinion of course?

You know the insolence on this forum is sometimes enough to make me throw up.

speaking of fighting fire with fire:

You know the insolence on this forum is sometimes enough to make me throw up.

By your own pretentious opinion of course?

hello, nice to meet you, charmed I'm sure, hello, nice to meet you

 

[The Monkey]

Haha, its funny because thats what firefighters successfully do to stop fires.

If fire fighters fight fire, and crime fighters fight crime, what do freedom fighters fight?

 

[Stylo]

I'm devil's advocating on their behalf in reaction to such hyperbole. I'm allowed to.

Hyperbole? Sorry, I must have missed the part were innocent people's businesses being looted, smashed up and set on fire in many major cities all over England wasn't a serious issue.

Oh look, masses of people are mugging injured people on the street, but calm down guys, I'm sure they have a great reason for it.

WTH, man? There's literally no justification for the actions of these people.

 

[Shift]

Guh I am literally always on my own in this forum, if someone laughs at my post everyone else has to join in too and to be honest it works in making feel completely stupid. But at least I don't pretend to be super intelligent like most of the members, but yeah its been clear for a while that no one likes me here so I know when I'm not wanted, I'll find somewhere else. Laters.

 

[Shakermaker]

Interesting article in The Guardian: Egyptians swap views online over roots of unrest

I think it's insulting to compare the Egyptian uprising, which was entirely political with clear goals, to a bunch of angry poor youths in London stealing trainers. But there's no escaping the fact that on some level they are both fuelled by inequality. I joined the Tahrir [Square] protests but I would never dream of joining the London riots.

Yet if a protest movement that targeted inequality arose out of this unrest then I would be on board … these rioters are mindless opportunists but through their actions they might actually get British society thinking.

On 28 January [when Mubarak's security forces had to withdraw from the streets] there were no police anywhere and yet there was still less looting than we've seen now in Britain. If the police were completely withdrawn on any given day in the UK the country would probably implode. That raises tough questions … the issue isn't just economical, it's societal.

Also, from the riots in Manchester earlier tonight:

 

[Stylo]

According to surfacing reports on Sky News, The Independent and 'I' (our newest newspaper) - David Cameron has given the order to allow Police to use rubber bullets.

 

[Dynasty]

I havent been this angry about something in ages.

It's disgusting, immoral, anything else you can label these chavs (youths) with.

Scum. Thats the only way I can describe them all as being for doing this. Saying it's about the police is just crap, they're stealing, and this will continue until the police have their commander tell them to grow some pairs, get in there and start some ass-kicking.

Standing in riot gear is doing nothing, clearly. They just run at the crowd, who throw stones and reportedly fend the police off with a fire extinguisher in one case (!!!! WTF!), and the police just resort to;

And the PM is going to get some real shit for this. ''We dont want to use water cannons which are proved to be effective or rubber bullets, also extremely effective, or tear gas, extremely effective, because that would give a sense of things being out of control.''

Shut the f up and GET IN THERE! IT IS CLEARLY ALREADY OUT OF CONTROL YOU MORONS!

So many people are crying out about the police just standing around fending off ''missiles'' and pushing the odd chav back who thinks he's hard. Drag them into the bloody alleys and beat them senseless. Give public examples of police dominance to these brats. Crack some skulls. Ethnic cleansing. Trim the heard, for the greater good.

Set up a curfew.

Believe me, anyone who complains later that the police acted too harshly will be slapped down as an idiot, because if we dont do anything now, it's just going to get worse and worse, no matter how many police you throw onto the streets.

The UK youths need to be beaten into submission. Screw the human rights crap. Screw the racism crap, as they're clearly mainly black youths as depicted in almost every shot on the news of youths breaking into places, just get in there and smash some faces in with the riot gear, shoot back when necessary.

CLEAR THESE STREETS OF THE SCUM THAT IS THE UK YOUTH IN LONDON.

 

[Ennui]

This is getting dramatic. You guys need to relax a little bit and stop biting each others heads off over this. It's just a bit of civil unrest - yes, rioters are scumbags, huge surprise.

At least you guys don't all have guns. More than 50 people died in the LA riots back in 1992.

 

[CptStern]

Guh I am literally always on my own in this forum, if someone laughs at my post everyone else has to join in too and to be honest it works in making feel completely stupid. But at least I don't pretend to be super intelligent like most of the members, but yeah its been clear for a while that no one likes me here so I know when I'm not wanted, I'll find somewhere else. Laters.

I really dont care what the other wieners have to say I chimed in because what you said was ridiculous. I suspect the other people thought the same way. abstinence education is ineffectual and completely unrealistic

 

[Smoke]

I don't care if you are playing the devils advocate, just shut the **** up.

So yes, I will insult anyone who defends these people even slightly. They are an abomination of humanity.

Put simply, their parents are to blame primarily, people who can spawn scum like that shouldn't be having children, yet the teenage pregnancy rates in this country continues to grow meaning more and more people are having children who are simply unfit to be parents. They then have to go off benefits and end up council homes, which are ALWAYS the catalyst for chav communities. Abstinence classes REALLY need to be enforced early in education.

Not to mention I'm pretty sure the ones causing the violence in Manchester at the moment aren't black.

By your own pretentious opinion of course?

You know the insolence on this forum is sometimes enough to make me throw up.

Guh I am literally always on my own in this forum, if someone laughs at my post everyone else has to join in too and to be honest it works in making feel completely stupid. But at least I don't pretend to be super intelligent like most of the members, but yeah its been clear for a while that no one likes me here so I know when I'm not wanted, I'll find somewhere else. Laters.

Actually, you're just making yourself look like a bit of a twat.

This is getting dramatic. You guys need to relax a little bit and stop biting each others heads off over this. It's just a bit of civil unrest - yes, rioters are scumbags, huge surprise.

At least you guys don't all have guns. More than 50 people died in the LA riots back in 1992.

Excellent point.

 

[Shem]

According to surfacing reports on Sky News, The Independent and 'I' (our newest newspaper) - David Cameron has given the order to allow Police to use rubber bullets.

That should prove as an effective deterrent.

 

[Shakermaker]

Rubber bullets have been authorized.

And these rioters aren't all black. On the contrary.

 

[Remus]

I'm glad they take the time to do group photos, or shots with all their loot. It's going to make things a lot easier for the police to arrest all these assholes.

 

[kupocake]

Man. I never knew what poverty the other half lived in. Blackberry Messenger? Really makes you count your blessings.

 

[Stylo]

I'm glad they take the time to do group photos, or shots with all their loot. It's going to make things a lot easier for the police to arrest all these assholes.

More proof that the kind of people who do this kind of thing aren't exactly the most educated Brits!

Also, I absolutely refute the statement that the people condemning the rioters are being "Middle Class" about it. I come from a working class background myself and I grew up in an area that's a total shit hole full of idiots and crime but instead of taking to the streets and being a f*cking violent, moral-lacking, vandal asshole, I'd rather speak out against such retardedness.

 

[Shakermaker]

I didn't think it would happen but I found an incident of looting I do condone.

@ManchesterRiots
Liam Gallagher's store on King Street has been looted earlier this evening. #ManchesterRiots

I bet Noel will laugh when he finds out about this.

 

[Pulse]

[video=youtube_share;faPJx7zmbUk]http://youtu.be/faPJx7zmbUk[/video]

How political.

 

[Shakermaker]

I can't stop watching this stupidity.

 

[DEATH eVADER]

It's not rioting for any kind of Social Motivation as all this is literally terrorism.

I agree, Terrorism

Shaker, whats the link to that .gif, that is freaking hilarious

 

[Dandan]

I agree, Terrorism

Shaker, whats the link to that .gif, that is freaking hilarious

it is really good marketing

 

[kupocake]

If more people end up buying Heineken, the terrorists have won.

 

[Shakermaker]

Shaker, whats the link to that .gif, that is freaking hilarious

http://www.pr0gramm.com/data/images/2011/08/34776ro.gif


This is horrific btw:

Her Twitter account is still up remarkably. She even seems to appreciate the negative attention her tweet is getting.

EDIT Nevermind, it's a 4chan troll.

 

[The Monkey]

Wait, a cop got stabbed?

 

[Ennui]

Dude, click on her twitter account and scroll down a ways:

https://twitter.com/#!/Hey__SoulSister

Get back to May / April tweets. Their tone changes and they get really internetty / 4channy. This is the troll Twitter account of some internet troll jerkoff not a legitimate rioter. Which is why they are loving the attention... it's not real.

 

[Pulse]

Pffttt, clearly trolling. There's loads of fake accounts claiming all sorts so they can retweet people's angry messages. That's truly doing it for the 'lulz'.

 

[Shakermaker]

Dude, click on her twitter account and scroll down a ways:

https://twitter.com/#!/Hey__SoulSister

Get back to May / April tweets. Their tone changes and they get really internetty / 4channy. This is the troll Twitter account of some internet troll jerkoff not a legitimate rioter. Which is why they are loving the attention... it's not real.

Yeah, it's definitely 4chan. "I am behind 7 proxies" and all that.

 

[Sheepo]

Actually on this side of the pond they're just bludgeoned into complete ignorant submission by means of their education, livelihoods, public welfare, and access to an informative, truthful media being systematically ****ed by the beneficiaries of the Bush tax cuts (both the free-market utopists who believe in things like fairies, unicorns, and the invisible hand of capitalism and the people who don't actually care) so that they effectively rally as part of a pseudo-grassroots movement against any measure which could lift them out of their entrenched poverty. God bless the USA~

Soz guise but I'm effectively with Eejit on this one. Yeah, I'm into the whole Shelleyan violence-perpetuates-violence opposition to riots, but a lot of the responses here are pre-etty repugnant. Presuming that everyone involved has only a vague notion of the political significance of their actions, or that they aren't considering the political implications at all is ****ing classist as **** and you all should be pretty ashamed about that?

Even that non-specific '**** da man' attitude which so many of you are criticising (quite rightly) as objectionable is, to an extent, inevitable. What reason do these people have to engage with a system which, by all outward appearances, they have no bearing on: one that only serves to **** them and then **** them again? The UK is pretty much like softer (i.e., more European) version of the picture of the US I described above. Again, I'm not saying that gives them any right to put people's lives in danger or destroy someone's livelihood, but rather that it's lazy thinking to pin the blame on 'chavs'* as if the real source of the problem is that a load of individual people just up and decided for no particular reason to smash some things up for laughs. Even in a nation rife with inequality, people value order more than you think; if this many people are willing to violently break away from that order, then it should be a strong indication that there is something quite fundamentally wrong with your society.

*seriously though how do you guys manage to say this word without wanting to scrub yourself with a wire brush afterward, doesn't it disgust you to use a classist slur to unproblematically refer to a group of people who are frequently born into generations' worth of poverty, doesn't that make you feel really gross and bad inside

I quite like this post. I can understand the condemnation going on here, but the fact that you guys absolutely refuse to see this as anything but black and white, "These people are filth who I wouldn't mind all dying" is pretty ridiculous, and quite unlike the usual intelligence I see here. Yes, this is bad. And illogical. And their actions won't cause anything but harm to themselves and innocent people. But the completely close-minded generalizations and bashing are absurd*.

*I recognize that the worst and strongest source was Shift, but there are clearly sentiments not so different from his expressed by others.

 

[Shakermaker]

Sangat TV, right there on the scene as ever. Too bad their Justin TV channel is at capacity.

 

[Pulse]

Sangat TV, right there on the scene as ever. Too bad their Justin TV channel is at capacity.

This is great I'm watching live on TV now they're literally going street by street.

 

[15357]

Presuming that everyone involved has only a vague notion of the political significance of their actions, or that they aren't considering the political implications at all is ****ing classist as **** and you all should be pretty ashamed about that?

Are you a communist or something? Not to be rude, but you're talking about "grassroots" and this frankly obsolete and somewhat dangerous notion of "class". I'm asking only because the usage of such notions in a non-statistical/economic analysis way but in a semi-political setting that is your post kinda reminds me of Marxists (or those who claim to be so). This is also unimportant and you don't have to answer; I'll just pretend that you are and send kill-teams to recover your head.


But moving on.

We rarely have "riots" (the protests you see could hardly be called riots; nobody dies, nobody loots, and only a small portion of the entire city is engulfed in violence by extremely politically motivated people instead of people reaching for iron pipes spontaneously). So the news here is pretty unhelpful in trying to figure out a reason why normal, sane people, poor as they may be, suddenly set places on fire and loot businesses. They think that it's about race issues, but are having a hard time keeping that story when everyone, regardless of race, is liberating the neighborhood's liquor from the oppressive bourgeois. It also doesn't help that everyone over here thinks that the UK is compromised purely of true gentlemen and classy ladies.

Seriously, "lets destroy our own neighborhood and consequently our own livelihoods because we're poor" is unconvincing and retarded. I mean, you guys have universal education and stuff.

 

[Lucid]

 

[Smoke]

Exterminate populace.

 

[Stylo]

Ahahaha oh my god I can't believe I missed this. Do you even know what terrorism is?

Yes, purposefully spreading terror. I'd call burning down shops and destroying property, pretty much terrorism.

Because the effects of class oppression can be quite clearly seen in the education system and also because apparently when one person on the internet who's from a working-class background is able to recognise that stealing and burning things is wrong, that totally negates decades' worth of class tension in the situation at hand while simultaneously exonerating everyone else from classism, even those who are middle class?!

What? This is totally missing my point. My point was to say that condemning the rioters is "Middle Class" is stupid because that's tarnishing entire classes and dividing this whole thing into "Oh, all the rioters are working class and those that don't agree are very middle class unless they sympathise with the rioters." That's just retarded.

There's plenty of working class people out there who don't act like these rioters. Just as, as proven by the student protests, Middle Class people can be just as f*cking stupid.

 

[Sulkdodds]

Um, just to say, the definition of terrorism is violence with a political purpose. So you can't actually say that this is terrorism at the same time as you say it has no political intent. It's one or the other.

 

[Krynn72]

I quite like this post. I can understand the condemnation going on here, but the fact that you guys absolutely refuse to see this as anything but black and white, "These people are filth who I wouldn't mind all dying" is pretty ridiculous, and quite unlike the usual intelligence I see here. Yes, this is bad. And illogical. And their actions won't cause anything but harm to themselves and innocent people. But the completely close-minded generalizations and bashing are absurd*.

*I recognize that the worst and strongest source was Shift, but there are clearly sentiments not so different from his expressed by others.

I think the biggest reason people seem to be lacking any sympathy for them is because they don't seem to have any thought out reason for doing this. From where I stand, it really does seem like they're just doing it because they got overexcited about something, and "the government" is the issue they brought up after they started burning/looting civilian and private business buildings. Its hard to be sympathetic when they don't seem to have any significant or even remotely clear reason to be so violent. I mean, obviously there is a reason for it if we step back and look at the broad situation that likely reveals mounting frustrations, but it seems like the rioters don't even know what it is, they're just burning and stealing shit because they're mad about stuff.