Looking for an affordable synth

Vegeta897

Vegeta897

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Hey all you music tech junkies... I'm looking to buy a synth machine thingy. I have almost no knowledge of them as you can probably tell, but I know I want one >.>

Pretty much anything with a piano and shit I can tweak on it would be good. I don't know how these things work really, but I want one that works STAND ALONE. Not plugged into a computer or anything (though of course if it can do it, all the better) I want one that I can simply plug speakers or headphones into and be good.

As for price, anything around or under $250 should be fine. Is there even anything this cheap?

I fear there isn't :(
 
That's actually a software synth modeled after that device. You should just get Reaktor 5 and some midi controller/keyboard like the M-Audio Oxygen 8 v2 keyboard.
 
Yeah I noticed that, edited my post.

I am not looking for a software/hardware solution, I want solo hardware I can just sit and play around with without hooking it up to anything. I don't know if that's impractical or not but it's what I crave. Apparantly there's nothing cheap enough. :(

If I can't get anything as cheap as 250, a nice thing would be a list of the lowest priced synths... Would be much appreciated. Or a link where I can get similar help?

Edit: Even a drum machine would be cool too. Probably even more preferrable.

I did some more looking. What can you tell me about these?

http://www.samash.com/catalog/showitem.asp?ItemID=17561
http://www.samash.com/catalog/showitem.asp?ItemID=17561

Do they work stand-alone? (With speakers/headphones of course)
 
Ok, but Reaktor is insanely fun and powerful. I'm still trying to wrap my head around the basics of it but it's just too fun to give up on. I probably can't help you with this, but good luck on finding what you're looking for.
 
Reaktor can be fun if you have the will to figure it out. I don't. =P Physical, hands-on tweaking would be something I'd wrap my head around more easily.

Vegeta, do you understand the basics of things like subtractive and additive synthesis? Because if you don't, I wouldn't go into hardware just yet. You'd be better off fooling around with some VSTs to get a grasp on them first.

In any case though, most of my knowledge regarding hardware is regards to well-known classics... which cost an arm and a leg.

ADDED: Ah, I've seen that drum machine at a shop around here. Was real fun to play around with. I'm not sure if you're looking for percussive devices or anything in particular, but looks like a solid buy.
 
I know I'm very inexperienced with this stuff Absinthe, but it's not really the point. I'm in no way trying to be professional here, I want something to fool around with.

Besides, I've decided I want a drum machine instead which seems a bit simpler with regards to things to understand.

Question, what is the difference between the last item I posted, the Korg, and this Korg? http://www.samash.com/catalog/showi...hrase=&Contains=&Search_Type=SEARCH&GroupCode=

80 dollars more, what is it exactly? An updated version?

Edit: Hmm, looks like it is more focused toward editing your own samples and such. Back to the 200 dollar! Wonder if I could get it for Christmas.
 
I figured as such. But just expect a learning curve. Especially if you start wanting to get more specific sounds from it.

As for the difference, can't take a closer look atm. But yeah, it's probably the sample support. The first one makes reference to external sounds, but I imagine it's more limited.
 
Just as a final clarification, this can run on its own with simple headphones or amps to emit the actual sound, right? Comes with sound packs and no input is required?
 
Should run through any amp, yeah.

This doesn't run on sound packs, but actual analogue-generated sounds. So that can allow deformation of the individual instruments such as length, white noise, tone, modulation, etc). Actual synthesis instead of mere sample editing.
 
Reading through the manual, this is really awesome, looks like the perfect thing I wanted. What a price too!

I can even use my midi keyboard with it too. (finally some real use for the thing) ... All I need is a midi cable. I can also input audio from things like a radio or CD player! Woo, should be interesting... Can't wait 'til this christmas.
 
Funnily enough, I was messing around with a professional synth just yesterday as one of the higher Music Tech studens brought his in. It was... beautiful, if confusing.

I'm still messing around with VST's and stuff like keyboards hooked up into Cubase, etc, so it's not what I'm looking for right now. I am, however, looking for a fairly small-ish and cheap keyboard that I can move around with easily as I work on Cubase on my laptop and it'd be nice to have a keyboard thats easily portable.
 
Have you ever used a proper soft synth?

Don't waste money on hardware before you know your way around synthesis and general music production. I remember you saying you couldn't be arsed to get around reason and hardware is infinitely more cumbersome than software.

sure, my microkorg is fun, but it takes ages to set up versus booting up ableton live and putting on a simple soft synth, so it ends up not being used most of the time. i'm not even going to bother explaining the process for booting up my tr-606 and 707, together with ableton, hooking up the midi cables properly, programming new beats on them because they have poor memory (the 606's memory is ****ing temperature dependant), then syncing everything to the 707 because otherwise the 606 isn't synced to anything.
did i say the 707 tempo changes all the time just because it feels like it?

it's a very expensive realm.. i think you need to prioritise what you really need, maybe get into VST's and stuff. not reaktor because it's pretty hardcore, not beginner material.

you're not going to get the best sound out of your units if you dont have a proper mixer interface, simply hooking it up with a headphone can work but if you wan't to use it together with your computer or anything, hooking it up to your basic soundcard isn't going to sound great.

and a drum machine as your first synth, could be pretty cool i guess, but speaking from my experience with my 606, it's kind of boring only programming a beat for a few hours. you are definitely going to want to incorporate it with something, and if it's one thing software is good for, it's beats.

getting a drum machine and a 303 or something and hooking them up, you can basically make your entire music wth those two, but yeah right, the 303 is ****ing EXPENSIVE.

You want simple things, but simple things are really limited unless you want to go squarepusher or autechre on them and totally **** them up physically. basically, if you get something complex you won't be bored by it.

i think you should get more into software, find out if it's really your thing, then consider buying hardware. also, you're not going to get your money back if you buy something recent. if you buy something old it's going to raise in value. hoping it doesn't get broken of course ;)

a microkorg is pretty nice though for a standalone synth, you said you wanted something portable and the thing can run on frikkin' batteries. sometimes i bring it to bed, i hook up my headphones to it and program myself to sleep :cheese:

one thing i think you should consider is a simple hardware sequencer, a groovebox, like mc-303 (not tb-303, the acid box), its like its own little fun music studio. everyone who has one of some sorts say they're great for creativity, because its simple, you just turn it on and make fun little tunes.
read about the mc303 here http://www.vintagesynth.com/index2.html
 
CrazyHarij said:
Have you ever used a proper soft synth?

Don't waste money on hardware before you know your way around synthesis and general music production. I remember you saying you couldn't be arsed to get around reason and hardware is infinitely more cumbersome than software.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if this is to me or not but either way; I've used keyboards and the like for a good few years now, but some of the stuff this thing could do was really impressive. I was like a kid, just pushing buttons and giggling inanly at the wicked noises. Reason is a programe I still need to get my hands on, until then I use Cubase.

Sorry if not, just wanted to clear that up anyhow. Good information, though.
 
^ Why would you get reason if you already have cubase?
TheAntipop said:
I am, however, looking for a fairly small-ish and cheap keyboard that I can move around with easily as I work on Cubase on my laptop and it'd be nice to have a keyboard thats easily portable.
Click to expand...
Have a look here. There are plenty of little 2 octave controllers on that page. Also in cubase you can probably use the laptop keyboard as a virtual midi keyboard.
Absinthe said:
Reaktor can be fun if you have the will to figure it out. I don't.
Click to expand...
You should check out KarmaFX synth. Its a free and really easy to use and powerful enough modular synth.
 
Harij pretty much stated my position on this, but whatever. Although I'm sure some of the complications he refers to aren't applicable to more recent gear (his 606 being a product of the early 80's). I can't find a year on the Korg drum machine you want, but I can't imagine it being more than a few years old. They just have to have streamlined/improved the process at this point.

Official page on it:
http://korg.com/gear/info.asp?a_prod_no=ERMKII&category_id=2

Also the more advanced one, if you just want another look:
http://korg.com/gear/info.asp?a_prod_no=ES1MKII&category_id=2
 
It is, ive been using it for like a year now. The sound from it is really good especially for dark and techy stuff.
 
Reaktor4 said:
^ Why would you get reason if you already have cubase?

Have a look here. There are plenty of little 2 octave controllers on that page. Also in cubase you can probably use the laptop keyboard as a virtual midi keyboard.
Click to expand...

I just want to see what Reason is like. My freind uses Reason 3 in his college Music Tech class and he much prefers it. But them, he never took the time to read through Cubase. He was more intrested in just knowing how it turns on and how to record. Lately I've been looking around it and experimenting with other Proteus' and the such, giving me a much wider range of kits, synths, etc. It's cool.

Thanks for the link though, some real cool stuff on that page. I'll have a proper look around later, but theres some stuff there I have my eye on.
 
I'm very sure the ER1mkii is what I want. Non-sampled drums, with a nice and simple sequencer.
I'm really wondering what it's capable of though. On the official page they have songs that were made with the ER AND the EA. I wish I could hear just what the ER can do.

I may get an EA further down the line as well.
 
TheAntipop said:
I'm not sure if this is to me or not but either way; I've used keyboards and the like for a good few years now, but some of the stuff this thing could do was really impressive. I was like a kid, just pushing buttons and giggling inanly at the wicked noises. Reason is a programe I still need to get my hands on, until then I use Cubase.

Sorry if not, just wanted to clear that up anyhow. Good information, though.
Click to expand...

well, it was a reply to vegeta, i've talked with him a bit about reason and i've gotten the impression that he wants to make music but doesn't even want to learn reason.

vegeta i dont think you're totally clear on what is out there and what you want. that korg er thing seems pretty cool though, know some idm heads who are into it

this one, emx-1 is pretty popular too, its got tube distortion and shit!
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Korg-ElectribeEMX1?sku=701946

I'm not sure if this is to me or not but either way; I've used keyboards and the like for a good few years now, but some of the stuff this thing could do was really impressive. I was like a kid, just pushing buttons and giggling inanly at the wicked noises. Reason is a programe I still need to get my hands on, until then I use Cubase.
Click to expand...

Antipop, alot of people who use reason like it because of it's hardware like interface. it's much like plugging a real studio. VST hosts like cubase are infinite times more versatile, but the limited concept of reason works great for creativity and LEARNING.. once you become pretty good at it you realise that it's alot more versatile than you might think, you can do lots of imaginitive routing and stuff.

and then there's hardcore people like Absinthe who knows it in and out and just makes really ****ing insanely cool sounding shit with it.

also, i know just the feeling of playing around with a big nice synth, nothing in software that comes even close. i'm totally sold on hardware but its expensive as ****, its not right thing for everyone, especially not someone who hasnt even used software properly

vegeta, let me put it like this..

over the course of development of software music making, this is what the general consensus seems to be on software vs hardware:

what software does great:

any kind of manipulation you could possibly imagine, distortion (unless we're talking tube effects), pitch shifting, stretching, ****ing things up in general works great with software. granular synthesis shit, metasynth and crap that turns pictures into sound.

creativity in general, because its so damn fast and inituitive. in the future its gonna be awesome with like, mind control programs.. when that comes, we're all going to be swamped with awesome tracks

BEAT MANIPULATION. software is the king of beats, let's just put it at that. you can sample, do midi, **** things up all nice and pretty. programming hardware drum machines is long and arduous.. you can easily get bored and angry

what hardware kicks the shit out of software at doing:

synthesis. a software sinewave looks more like a distorted sine wave if you run the waveform through an analog oscilloscope.
the realm of software synthesis is random and mysterious. if FM synthesis is considered to be dark voodoo, software way of handling synthesis is ultra evil sith stay-the-****-away black magic.

compression. im definitely looking into getting a hardware compressor myself, there's just too many rounding errors and stuff in software that ****s with bass frequencies and generally getting a nice sound.. even the cheapest hardware compressor ass****s the most expensive software stuff.

EQ.. EQ software distortion is inharmonic and makes it sound cold and evil, analog EQ adds harmonic distortion that makes it sound pretty nice if youre into the whole analog thing

most hardware except the newest shit = OMG ANALOG.. thats about it.. the reason most ppl invest in any hardware at all, including myself

some dude said:
I have the ER1 MK1 and it can make some cool sounds if you tinker around with it.

However I tend to find the "best" kick/snare drum setting and don't bother creating any more presets.

Though it's very easy to tweak. Depends what kind of music you want to make with it really.
Click to expand...

and also, lastly, consider this:
I'm very sure the ER1mkii is what I want. Non-sampled drums, with a nice and simple sequencer.
I'm really wondering what it's capable of though. On the official page they have songs that were made with the ER AND the EA. I wish I could hear just what the ER can do.
Click to expand...


the korg er mk2 is not analog, it's DSP "analog modelling" bullshit.. basically the same as software, basically the same as sample based. it's a computer shitting out 1's and 0's to get the sound

VA (virtual analog, software-hardware, i.e the shit youre looking at) = something that will be obsoleted by a freeware softsynth in 3 years

the reason i'm trying to convince you to try and rethink what you want is because i'm getting the impression that you're a lazy music maker (just like me and millions others), you want it easy and simple and that's what software does great. buying a cool unit isn't going to make your music any more creative or cooler, it's just going to give you another tool to use. and trust me, alot of people who buy some cool synth or drum machine or something end up leaving it on the shelf alot of the time because it takes time to get into and use it compared to a quick software program. the people who should get hardware are the kind who spend ages in computer programs but still dont find the sound they're looking for, the kind who needs charm and the feeling of tinkering with stuff. music making requires you to be very patient, and hardware music is 10x more time consuming than software music making.

for ****s sake, just learn the basics of reason, find out what it's about, make some good tunes, try all the cool VSTs out, then consider whether you should stay native (software) or go hardware. you don't want to waste cash, or get your parents to waste cash, in something that's not going to be remotely worth what it's sold for once you're done with it.

if you get any hardware, get something older and cheaper, even if its digital , like a roland groovebox or something.. theres nothing that modern hardware does any better than past hardware or modern software

get an mc-303.. or go real oldschool and use an mc-202: http://machines.hyperreal.org/manufacturers/Roland/MC-202/images/mc-202.jpg ****ing ace!

Absinthe said:
Although I'm sure some of the complications he refers to aren't applicable to more recent gear (his 606 being a product of the early 80's).
Click to expand...

yeah you're right man, but i still get the impression that hardware sequencing hasn't got shit on software.. this convo for instance:

you essentially can drag/drop waves they both take smart media cards. The only manual labor involved is when you assign the samples on the card to the empty slots on the ELectribe. I loaded about 30 drum samples in under 20 minutes earlier today.

the main benefit of the electribe for me is the ribbon controller and 16-step sequencer. Unfortunately you cant send midi CC values with the knobs, if there was a midi interface exactly lik the Electribe (like anothe user mentioned) it would be a ****ing god send
Click to expand...

20 minutes!!!! am i supposed to be impressed!?! i can drag and drop 300 drum samples into the nn-xt in reason in 3 seconds.

i see what you mean tho. i do have a hardwad sampler that i can transfer wavs to via smartmedia, but i haven't used it in months for that very reason.
Click to expand...

and i mean the whole step sequencing thing hasn't changed since the 80's. the way you program the ER-1 or 2 or whatever looks just the same as my 707.

I'm really not in the mood to write a proper post so i hope you can extract any sense out of this random collection of thoughts and stolen quotes on the matter. peace out vegeta, just make sure you know what youre getting yourself into. first of all, if i were you, i'd probably get a synth rather than a drum machine.. and i'd save my money for something that doesn't suck.. maybe get a juno 106 or an sh-101 or something like that, something cool around 500 bucks. or a 303!

so you basically have an instrument you can learn music theory on and have lots of fun with..
 
CrazyHarij said:
and then there's hardcore people like Absinthe who knows it in and out and just makes really ****ing insanely cool sounding shit with it.
Click to expand...

Well, I wouldn't say that. :) It's only been recently that I've started to feel I'm breaking new ground for myself in Reason.
 
Thanks for that post Harij.. Made me reconsider some things. First of all I just want to say I have been using Reason. I NEVER said I couldn't be arsed to figure the shit out, you misunderstood me. I said there was a problem I had with understanding the way the sequencer window worked, that is out of the way now and I've been fooling around with it quite a lot.

So now I'm not so sure I want that Korg ER.
But another thing you're misunderstanding is why I want the hardware. Like I said I've been using Reason and I realise it's so much easier than doing stuff in hardware. That doesn't matter to me. I'm not getting hardware to make better music. I don't plan on producing anything anyone wants to listen to. I just want something I can mess with without needed to open up reason every time. Just something to chill with, or bring over to play along with my friends who have instruments.

Don't worry about me wasting money, please.

But I am starting to think I want a synth. Problem is that I want something I can make beats and stuff with. Can the MC303 do that? Does it have any drums whatsoever or am I stuck with just making melodies? I like working with beats and drums far more than creating melodies. I wanted to be able to do that without getting on my computer, loading up reason, finding drum kits I like, etc. I really love the way you can make your own drum sounds, and I like everything else about the ER1.

I'm going to try to find out what the mc303 is capable of.
 
the MC303 has lots of beats, its got loads of samples of old drum machines and stuff as well. i've heard a few tracks made iwth it and they sound very minimal and nice.

yeah do that, google around abit.. theres lots of grooveboxes around, probably better ones out but the mc-303 is cheap and has a nice minimal kind of playful sound. its meant to be a combination of the 303, 909, 808 and techno stuff but it's pretty versatile, from what ive heard of what ppl have made with it. few units in the history of music are actually used the way they're intented to. i mean the tb-303 was supposed to substitute a ****ing bass guitar

theres two realplayer demos on this page: http://www.vintagesynth.com/roland/mc303.shtml

i'm going to try and hook up with the folks on watmm, i know theres some people who make tracks with theirs

edit: i found two tracks:

this one is a bit like drukqs, fast jungle idm
http://www.ftp.nu/files/6287/

this one is really ****ing nice, minimal nostalgic kind of track. definitely an incentive to get a mc-303, if anything
http://sisforawesome.com/upload/files/13/7pd_tokyo lucky hole.mp3.mp3

you can also hook up your midi keyboard with it, it will even be velocity sensitive then
 
Can't afford it. Not what I'm looking for.
I'm getting the Korg ER.

Thanks for the help though.
 
HOLY AWESOME! Just got it today for Christmas, it's everything I'd imagined and more. I couldn't stop playing with it the moment I turned it on... I gotta go to parties for the rest of the day and when I get home I'll try to record some stuff.

WEEEE!!! :D :D :D
 
posted late sorry didn't read to the end of the posts

for future reference
you got sort of a drum machine/synth

not a bad buy though at all

however, if you want a true analog synth eventually (although it seems you found exactly what you were looking for) take a look at the alesis micron
after this it's just bells, whistles, and HDR.
 
Ok here's a little track... Just me messing with a single 1 bar pattern. This thing is so great for live stuff, no need for arranging patterns into a song to have fun, although you can if you want.

Doing rolls and stuff with the delay function is incredibly fun. :)

http://media.putfile.com/Bleepy-Tribe

Did I mention this thing is sexy in the dark? The lights are very vibrant and pretty.

Edit: Another track:

http://media.putfile.com/No-Cross-No-Loss

My fingers are sore from knob twisting D:
 
Nobody has anything to say? :( When I first posted them I felt they weren't that great but listening to them again now for some reason they sound awesome. I might just be in one of those moods I get in at night, or maybe I'm the only one who understands just how fun it is to play with these patterns, but whatever.

I've been working with another pattern, haven't recorded a track yet; but in other news, Eraser told me to try to make something ambient, which is tough with a drum machine, even a synthesized one like mine, but here's what I did.

Some parts are a bit too loud, I haven't mastered it or compressed or anything like that, this is straight from live tweaking on the machine, some parts I really think sounded awesome.

http://media.putfile.com/Loomhostingog
 
:D

Thankyou so much, you made me very happy and relieved :)
 
Pretty nice sounding. Lots of possibilities are available with that. I'm interested as to what you can do with it all.
 
Thankyou Qonf, and yes, I did order it online.

I think they're going out of production... And something this unique, it's sure to be valuable in the future.

Anyway, I'm going to get the synth version soon, 200 dollars as well, looks very similar except it's green and does synths, where you can actually program a melody as opposed to make-shift recorded knob movements. So now I'll have some real nice acid potential. Wee. :)

It's a great starter-instrument, by far the simplest interface, unlike Roland stuff. You get so into it when you're doing live tweaking, rolls and shit, it's a feeling I've never felt and it's fantastic.

If you're interested, there's this vid on YouTube of a guy creating a pattern from scratch. You get to see what it's like, how hands-on it is. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLmk5YtLToQ&mode=user&search=

I don't really enjoy the track itself, it's pretty good but not totally my style, but that's regardless.
 
That was so cool to watch, even though the track was meh, just the idea of moving your hands and those sounds being produced is orgasmic to me.
 
Yeah this is everything I had dreamed physical hardware music production would be. It's so great, I can just grab it and go downstairs, sit on the couch, plug in my headphones, and make a beat while watching TV or something. I can just jump right into it any time I want, go to a blank pattern and tweak up a pattern, jam with it for a while, record something if it's worthy, and ... Well, there you go.

Also, this vid is awesome too. James Bernard playing with the three first-version Electribes, (sampler, rhythm synth, and analog synth) along with the KAOSS Pad (an FX processor that uses an XY pad, very cool)

http://www.clicklive.com/korgUSA/sniffer/electribe/platform.html

Pleasure to watch, that guy is basically what I look like on my 'tribe. Ignore the cheesy video effects :p
 
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