Low power desktop

[Asus]

Long story short.
1)I want a PC that is lower power than my Q9300 quad and ATI 4850. I have 1 PC on most of the time so I want to improve my power usage and cost.
2)I want 2 PCs at the desk rather than just my Q9300 machine so my wife and I don't have to take turns. hehe
(Q9300/4850 would only be turned on for gaming. Or if I need to check web/email while she is on other PC.)

Intel CPU + Mobo
AMD CPU + Mobo

Memory
PSU
Case
HDD

Both the AMD and Intel above are low power CPUs. A cheap CPU like an AMD X2 250 will have higher power usage which would be enough to add back the cost. So why not go for the highest performing of the low power chips if in the end you spend the same?
The i3-530 has a little lower clock speed and IGP so it will be similar or lower power than the i5-661 here.
The difference in price to power an idle PC w/i3-540 vs Athlon II X2 240e over 4 years (24/7) is $60 which is the difference in buying the parts up front.
The difference between my Q9300/4850 being on @ idle (130w from the wall) 24/7 vs an i3-530 over 4 years is $350.
(130w-30w=100w X 24hrs X 7days X 52wks X 4yrs / 1000 X $.10)


Should I get the i3-530 setup? D:

 

[Quixoticism]

I think that the i3 would be the better system overall. If you want to save more on power still you could underclock it a bit and lower the voltage.
If you're really serious about low power consumption you could look into an Atom setup. Granted it will be slower than the builds you are looking at now, but it should cost less and use less power as well.

Some stuff I picked out. (keep in mind that I'm not too knowledgeable when it comes to the Atom and it's hardware)
Gigabyte Atom D510 prco/mobo combo
Crucial RAM(lowest voltage I could find for the quantity and price you were looking at)
Foxconn case

This is just to help get you started and maybe thinking about some other things. "Green" computers aren't something that I look into so this is just a hasty list of things I found.

Good luck.

 

[Asus]

Yeah, Atom is too low power (performance) for what I would like as a desktop.
The D510 is very low power although moving to an Atom w/Nvidia ION graphics for some extra video power and you pass the idle usage of the i3/i5 32nm CPUs but with way way lower performance of the i3/i5. i3/i5 CPUs can hang with older quad core CPUs for performance even though the i3/i5's are dual core.

I can cut out some of the cost from the parts I listed above if I go with a 2.5 laptop drive and Rosewill case.

I hooked up my kill-a-watt device to both my monitors and my 19" LCD and 17" CRT use 55w. I would have thought the LCD used less. ha

 

[VirusType2]

I've got a phased motherboard. 4 power phases with automatic control in BIOS. Class leading power efficiency.

Look into MSI and see if they make a 'green' phased mobo for the i3. (I don't see one at newegg, but another brand might make one)


I'm surprised to hear that your 17" CRT uses the same wattage also.


It's funny, I was just looking at my 2nd desktop the other day and wondering how I could use it.

Hook up a very small LCD, maybe 7" (with auto shutoff powersaving)
Use only 1 RAM stick
install only one HDD
onboard graphics
rear case fan and CPU fan only
Ethernet cable to other computer to fileshare
(CeleronD)

I was thinking I'd use it as a jukebox - sorta. Basically, a kiosk to access all my music.

But, my main computer is on so much, I don't really have a need to have a separate unit right now. Maybe if they were in a separate room:

I still want to eventually have a juke box machine, a mame/emu cabinet, and a pinmame cabinet. Shit would be awesome.

 

[Asus]

A juke box would be pretty nice.

I have my A64 as my HTPC atm but thinking about this desktop had me wondering if I should upgrade the HTPC too. Can't do hulu on the A64 and it even has an ATI 4350 for off loading the work to the GPU (flash beta installed for GPU acceleration).

Recycling parts into 'new' machines is fun.

I can't find the exact link but I think it was Xbitlabs, they said the Asus board in their review didn't get as low for idle power as the other brand(s) because they used 4? phases instead of the lower amount that the other boards used. Maybe 4 phase is just more efficient while under load? (going from memory)
Here is a separate article showing idle watts between H55 boards.

 

[VirusType2]

Maybe automatic phase control is required as well.

I don't know how it works technically, but I was under the impression that having 4 phases, it is able to reduce power use in 25% increments, depending on demand. So if your computer is idling at the desktop with nothing running, and your CPU has stepping (or whatever)(auto underclocking, or on demand overclocking, like Intel's Turbo), then it may only use 1 or 2 phases, however when more power is required - gaming - for example, all 4 phases will be used to power that bitch.

It's listed as a green feature on my MSI motherboard. This is the i5-750 with the improved turbo feature, so this may work together better than with other processors. Note: There was no sacrifice in performance either.

In the benches, the power consumption of this board was significantly less than the others, particularly AsRock's p55, which used a hell of a lot of power.

 

[Asus]

Phases
"Let’s take the CPU voltage regulator circuit. If this circuit has two phases (or channels), each phase will be operating 50% of the time in order to generate the CPU voltage. If this same circuit is constructed with three phases, each phase will be working 33.3% of the time. With four phases, each phase will be working 25% of the time. With six phases each phase will be working 16.6% of the time. And so on."

I guess with more power phases it is just less time that energy will be on one of the phases, not less energy used.

I am looking at the H55 MSI board now. Has better voltage regulators, similar low idle power as the Intel board and some more features (and costs less).

 

[VirusType2]

Hmm, OK. Ok, yeah, these are special features, like I suspected.

# 1 Phase DrMOS > 4 Phase Traditional MOSFET

3-in-1 server class power component, 400% faster than traditional MOSFET
Offers excellent energy-saving capability and high-computing performance.
# Advantages
.
1. High Efficiency: Up to 96%
2. Efficiency Increase: +38.3%
3. Lower Power Loss: -4.01W (64% Max Saving)

APS is Active Phase Switching, that is complete function to Control Power Demand With Switcing Dynamically, it’s for CPU, Memory and Chipset PWM.

Benefits:
Saving Power under Variable Loading.
Power Usage More Efficiency.

My board at MSI.com
http://www.msi.com/index.php?func=proddesc&maincat_no=1&prod_no=1845

If you can find a MSi board with DrMOS and Active Phase Switching [APS], then look into it.

So they are saying it's a custom 3 in 1 phase, and NOT 4 phases. (First line, first quote)

 

[Asus]

This article covers power saving technics of different boards and all 3 of them shut phases down when not needed to save power. So I guess that would mean less phases use less power but less stable to a degree (when power is needed, also for stable OCs?).

Yeah, I saw the DrMOS thing as well. They come out cooler than the regular setup.

Probably looking at this guy. But then again this has 2 fast PCI-Express slots which I won't use. Wonder if it will off set the power savings (more components on the board).

 

[VirusType2]

Not only pay attention to that, but power saving technologies traditionally hurt performance, but this isn't the case with DrMOS (at least)

But as it doesn't sound like performance is a major factor for this build, and I don't see a MSI board for an i3 (didn't look very hard), then I think any power saving board should do.

 

[VirusType2]

Probably looking at this guy. But then again this has 2 fast PCI-Express slots which I won't use. Wonder if it will off set the power savings (more components on the board).

Didn't see your edit.

You can disable PCIe in the BIOS, right? But I don't know how that all works. Since it's basically just empty slots I don't see how it will use any power. (it's an incomplete, or 'open circuit', like a turned off light switch)

Besides, the PCIe controller is built into the i3 (on-die)? If so, then again, more that leads me to believe it wouldn't hurt power consumption.

However, it seems a waste of money for the mobo more than anything, since a 2nd PCIe slot tends to add like $25, but I have no other motherboards to compare it to.

 

[VirusType2]

Triple Post madness!

I'm dying to know what kind of power supply you will end up with.

For HDD, I was thinking the Hitachi green. Remember that bench where it was ace, along with the WD Falz? They recommended the Hitachi for multimedia systems and the WD for performance systems.

 

[Asus]

edit:I really wish I could put a Flex 220/250w in my system but I don't want to get a cramped case. I'm really looking at 2 seasonic models SS-300ET and S12ii 330 Bronze. Both do much better than other 300/350w PSU. 380w would be over kill.
Some people go with a pico-PSU (also 150w model) and a power brick. Close to 80% efficiency using 20w for the system.


I think I'm going to come back to which board to pick later on.

My next thing to try is having my HTPC (A64 3000+, 1GB, ATI 4350) at my desk and see how well it runs basic desktop things for a few days. See if either of us will notice a huge difference in performance loading up web, email etc from the quad.

If I don't then I could have the A64 as desktop #1, Q9300 as game machine and i3-530 as HTPC (would play HD flash as the A64 can't handle it).

 

[VirusType2]

Some people go with a pico-PSU (also 150w model) and a power brick. Close to 80% efficiency using 20w for the system.

That's awesome. I'm gonna get something like that for my juke box.

Just queue up the playlists and let it play all day. Set up hotkeys on a numpad or something to switch tracks, play/pause stop,etc.
>
http://www.backshop.nl/uploadfoto/KinesisNUMPAD for MiniTypeITK-591.jpg

A traditional juke box does use a numpad to select tracks! Or get a remote or a touch screen monitor for the controls could be easy to swap in, sometime in the future.

The advantage of this dedicated unit is obviously that you can play and select tracks nicely while you are gaming or whatever. Arcade games, mostly.

That power brick is awesome, though. Definitely would prefer a silent PSU when it comes to a music player.

You might not need 300/350w, Asus.

 

[Asus]

Yeah, but getting a pico-psu and the brick adapter is $$.
The little pico-psu just takes 12v DC and splits it to 5 and 3.3. The brick adapter like a laptop power brick does the AC->DC 12v conversion.

And the 230, 250 watt PSUs on newegg are for flex or ITX systems rather than microATX and ATX.

 

[VirusType2]

Not really:

http://www.mini-box.com/Power-Supplies-Kits

http://www.mini-box.com/picoPSU-120-102W-power-kit

And consider this: 0 heat; 0 noise; ~0 space in your case

It looks like this one has a switching fan on the brick (which will generate some noise), but you can put that well away from where you'll be sitting.

Looks like it's designed for a very small layout: http://resources.mini-box.com/online/PWR-Pico120-102WAC-DC-kit/moreimages/image3.jpg

But you can crimp your own connectors and/or extend the wires with a $2 adapters.

What is that coaxial looking cable for?

 

[Asus]

Goes to a PCI expansion plate on the PC. Then the power brick has the small round plug which goes into that from the back.

Maybe I will get the pico...

 

[VirusType2]

Seen anyone hook up a power supply outside of their case, besides in a benchmark?

I guess you would want to use a grounding cord going from the powersupply to the case. Grounding could easily be done with 2 'screw hole' crimp connectors and a thick wire. Then you get the PSU outside of the case, limited by the length of the wires of course.

I'm not sure how hot PSUs even get actually...

 

[Asus]

I'm thinking drop the SSD and go with 2.5" 5400rpm HDD to keep low power consumption. Then I'll just short stroke the drive to give performance a boost. The hitachi 7200rpm (single drive) goes from a minimum read or write of 55MB/s to 80+.

Go from 2x 1GB to 2x 2GB DDR3 1066 1.3v sticks (lower than default 1.5v sticks).

And I probably will stick with the Intel board just because every review that has included it got lower power use with it over MSI, ECS etc.

 

[Asus]

The A64 gets slow with multiple tabs open (pictures, flash etc). So the A64 is NOT going to be the basic desktop but it's going back under the TV.

I want to cool this thing fairly quietly. What coolers have you guys used? I'm thinking about Scythe mugen 2 revb or a thermalright.
And debating about few fans I can get away with. No PSU fan since I will be doing picoPSU. Wonder if I could make a duct between the cooler and exhaust and just use one fan. Either mounted on the heatsink or case.

No video card to cool. Not even a GPU on the northbridge so that heatsink will be cool. GPU is on the CPU with the i3 530 so that is the heater.
This review shows a HR-01 heatsink with no fan. Both with duct connected to the rear case fan and no duct.

Thinking about Antec's mini P180 since it is pretty sturdy for keeping vibrations and noise down. I don't want a lot of fans but this has options. Rear and top fan placement. Has 2 front vents with filters that can take 120mm fans. The front top one being directly in line with the HS and rear exhaust.
Both HDD cages are removable.

 

[VirusType2]

I'm thinking drop the SSD and go with 2.5" 5400rpm HDD to keep low power consumption. Then I'll just short stroke the drive to give performance a boost. The hitachi 7200rpm (single drive) goes from a minimum read or write of 55MB/s to 80+.

Maybe you should get this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152202&Tpk=SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3EG HD203WI

$30 off with promo code EMCYSYR79, ends 5/10 (2 days!)

SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3EG HD203WI 2TB 5400 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive

5400 RPM, but high density; very cool & quiet. The speed is about on par with 7200 RPM drives in most areas.

I was going to buy one but my job is being slow with my money. Damn. 2 Terabytes for $120...

Now that I think about it, it might not be the best drive to have for your OS. Storage/media drive only.

 

[Asus]

I do have a 1tb f3 but it's in another PC.
A 2.5" drive uses 1w instead of 6-12w like 3.5" drives.

 

[VirusType2]

Thinking about Antec's mini P180 since it is pretty sturdy for keeping vibrations and noise down. I don't want a lot of fans but this has options. Rear and top fan placement. Has 2 front vents with filters that can take 120mm fans. The front top one being directly in line with the HS and rear exhaust.
Both HDD cages are removable.

seems really cool.

And it's still got a place for a PSU .. so you still have that option if you ever upgrade (7 years?). It doesn't add to the footprint, just makes it taller.

 

[Asus]

So I got most of my parts in:
Intel i3 530
Thermalright HR-01 Plus heatsink
Intel DH55TC motherboard
4GB Kingston DDR3
Toshiba 250GB 2.5" hard drive
Antec Mini P180 (I only have the top fan in)

Put it together and I am temporarily using a power supply from another PC (430w) until the one I ordered arrives in a week. Getting Win7 setup and testing some stuff out.

I just booted into windows and am looking at the desktop. All programs etc have finished loading so there is no activity right now and the kill-a-watt meter says the system is using 32w steady with no fluctuation (just the PC, monitor not included).
It was using 50 watts while installing Win7.

I have that brick laptop style PSU on the way (102w brick w/150-XT DC-to-DC picoPSU).

 

[VirusType2]

I'm going to get one of those kill-a-watt meters.

32 w, lol. Nice one.

 

[Asus]

I installed the drivers and now it is idling @ 26w. Must have got a chip to lower it's voltage or something.
Can't wait for that 102w brick to arrive.

26w is 6% of 430watts (my PSU) so efficiency at this usage is probably pretty poor and the amount of power my PC is needing is south of 26w by a good percentage. (20-80% usage is where you want to be with a 80 Plus efficiency PSU otherwise you'd be pulling a lot more watts from the wall than you need).
Like if the efficency of my 430w PSU is just 60% at this low of watts then my PC would really be using 15.6w from the PSU while the PSU is pulling 26w from the wall (where the kill-a-watt is located).
I would be close to or just above 20% with the 102w brick. Wonder what the kill-a-watt would say then.

 

[Asus]

Some pics of the case and heatsink etc. The case has one of the front intake spots directly inline with the rear (but I'm not using multiple fans).
Idling @ 25-30c with 1 fan on low (w/case shut).

 

[VirusType2]

Pretty cool. You probably can't really hear it with that large fan on top. (positioned higher than your ear-line as well)

Oh that's right, that PSU will be replaced with the PICO, so it will be even quieter.

So what are you using this PC for again? Just general purpose? What kind of RAM is that? GREEN.

 

[Hectic Glenn]

Eco friendly kingston heatspreaders. Made from vegetation. He's saving the planet.

Love the look of those mini PSUs, they look awesome. Looking at the picture inside your case depresses me, the minimalist and tidiness is something I'll never be able to emulate Good case choice too.

 

[Asus]

The ram is Kingston DDR3 that runs at 1.25v instead of 1.5 or higher like other sticks.

The PC will be on basically 24/7. It is just for email, docs, web etc when sitting at the keyboard. But it will be a media server too.
I have a 1TB drive I'll be adding with media on it. Movies, shows, pics etc.
The 250GB toshiba HDD I have partitioned to just 30gb for the OS. The rest will remain unused (farther the data is from the edge of the HDD the slower it is). All docs will be saved on that 1TB drive.

Then my HTPC can access the videos and play on the HDTV in the living room. My quad core PC can access the desktop to put new movies on there. (I've started copying DVDs to the PC so I don't have to pop the disc in the DVD player or switch between devices. I have like 200 DVDs). Gonna grab a blu-ray drive for the HTPC as well. Then I don't have to turn on the PS3 (that thing idles @ 120w which is more than my A64 HTPC @ 55w).

I bought 2 of those big heatsinks, one for my quad core and one for this desktop. My quad idles 20c higher than the i3 530 even though the quad has a cpu fan on it and case fans...

I plan on grabbing some rubber string stuff from Michaels to suspend the hard drive. It's a 2.5" so it doesn't mount in the case without an additional adapter. The string stuff will make sure it is silent with no vibrations. You can see the drive flat on the bottom of the case in the picture.

 

[Asus]

idle w/102w brick PSU

 

[Hectic Glenn]

Another -5! You happy with that now? As far as building a low power desktop I'd say you've triumphed.

 

[Asus]

Actually this PSU dropped it ~9w.
After I installed the network driver my 26w idle went up to 30w under the temporary PSU. I'm done with hardware but not totally finished otherwise. Waiting for a bios update to see if any options get unlocked in my mobo for lower voltages.

139w (PC that was on all the time) - 21w (this desktop) = 118w idle power saved
118w X 24hrs X 7d X 52wks X 4yrs / 1000 X $.10 = $412 saved

Meaning it will take 4 years for my PC to pay for itself in electricity savings. But hey, this thing should last me 8 as a basic desktop.

edit: Also I added my 1TB samsung drive which was not in there at the time of the 26w measurement.
edit: I just plugged my Atom powered netbook into the kill-a-watt and it also uses 21w @ idle...ha