Mapping in elegal hammer

[fanero]

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(if I interpret them correctly) I should not be banned for asking some questions about the HL2-beta editor.

I and about 10 of my friends set out last year planning for this years school project and we desided to do a mod. Since we started to plan last year we still thought hl2 would be out pretty soon, so we chose that platform. We have now been building up our project around hl2 and it is too late to change to another game. Because hl2 (especially the hammer editor) still is not out, we are beginning to have some problems.

I've downloaded the hl2beta and tested the version of hammer in it and it works fine for me.
Could I actually map the basic structure now, before hl2 comes out, and be able to run it with the final hammer or will I run in to any problems, in case, which?

 

[Maxi]

Most likely not, I think Valve has made some changes so that mods and peolpe using the illegal hammer editor won't be able to use it in their final version... Sorta like a "HAHAHA SUCKAS!!!11" to the people who have tried...

 

[poseyjmac]

that doesn't make sense though. i don't think valve would do that just to give mod makers a hard time. giving mod makers an early start is one beneficial thing about the leak. valve knows this if they are smart.

 

[Shinobi]

I hope they do add the code to screw over people who stole the beta..


why would they reward those people?

 

[The Dark Elf]

Most likely not, I think Valve has made some changes so that mods and peolpe using the illegal hammer editor won't be able to use it in their final version... Sorta like a "HAHAHA SUCKAS!!!11" to the people who have tried...

they have yes :E:E:E

 

[coolcps]

You could make the basic structures in one not in the Hammer for HL1 and transfter the map to Source engine when the new editor comes out, if I am correct.

 

[JFry]

Dark Elf can you prove that? I had assumed the same but with the custom maps on CS:S popping up I am doubting it. I wouldn't rule out that they could still add some kind of protection in time for hl2 but I don't see why they wouldn't have done it for CS:S.

Coolcps that is true but there are issues like not knowing engine limits, the new .fgd, and being unable to playtest which sorta stunt the growth of any hl2 map in the making. Which is the same reason why mapping in programs like maya or softimage aren't really going to get you very far either.

 

[The Dark Elf]

Dark Elf can you prove that? I had assumed the same but with the custom maps on CS:S popping up I am doubting it. I wouldn't rule out that they could still add some kind of protection in time for hl2 but I don't see why they wouldn't have done it for CS:S.

Coolcps that is true but there are issues like not knowing engine limits, the new .fgd, and being unable to playtest which sorta stunt the growth of any hl2 map in the making. Which is the same reason why mapping in programs like maya or softimage aren't really going to get you very far either.

Yeah Gabe/Valve said so, its in the Valve info thread.

 

[Kyorisu]

LOL anyone testing with HL2 tools is a fool. Those tools are more than a year old and such things as compilting tools are constantly updated during the process of making a game. Why can't people wait for the natural order of things to occur and wait for the Hl2 release and making a map of your school is not entirerly original.

 

[Link]

He is not mapping his school, he is mapping for a mod that he and friends are making for school.

As already suggested, create in HL1 hammer editor, port when HL2 port tools come out and update it in the new hammer editor.

 

[mayro]

Hey dude, to help you out. Since i cant link to anything.... BUT if i where you i would goto *************.... They have some good discussions on building maps.... In particular i would talk to mr hat.... He seems to know a thing or 2 about getting maps working.

AKA: *Disclaimer* Dont linch me please **

The hat guy is the guy who has been releaseing the kick butt bada aztec maps. They have toolz over their to convert really any map to work with this new version of halflife2. Thats how hes makeing maps for CSS. Not to get on anyones bad side here... VALVE CANT MAKE ANY THING TO STOP PEOPLE FROM CONVERTING THE OLD STUFF TO WORK WITH NEW! I put that in caps to prove a point becuase that "old stuff" in nothing more than the new stuff updated. When you update CSS and then load forsay the speaker room map to test yer speakers you see that its rebuilding to the new version. Their will be tools to convert old hammer to new.

Edit: Forgot to add- They arent handing the tools out. Just letting you know it can be done. Their is no download link their for any illegal files.

 

[Yuri]

Uhh... how would they know that it works with the new HL2? I mean... its not released yet AND it hasn't been stolen again (at least to my knowledge... but I'm sure I would know about it...) It is kind of hard to make a crack for something that you don't know anything about...

And people probably will try to make programs to convert the work they did with the stolen Hammer into HL2 when its released. The fact is, though, that they are wasting their time. Why not just wait for HL2 to come out and then make your maps, that way you don't have to 1. make your map before HL2 and 2. make a program to convert it to the right format (which is probably going to take a long time, it isn't like the people at Valve are stupid...)

I'm so glad that Valve is changing the format :E

 

[^Ben]

Because they have different BSP versions.

CS:S and HL2 are version 19 BSP structure maps.

The HL2 leak was version 18.

At the moment all the custom maps for CS:S are at version 19 and it's probably safe to assume that valve wont do another update to the BSP file structure.

Just like the leak of HL this has helped valve and the community who want to get involved with the stolen tools get a head start.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

It hasn't helped Valve at all. It's only helped those people that are immoral and unscrupulous enough to use those tools against Valve's wishes.

 

[fanero]

Ok, firstly, have I not been in the situation I am, I would never have downloaded the beta (cause I would see no use), but now I have. All you guys with your immoral talk, can you honestly say that you have bought every single program or game on your harddrive? In that case, you are one in a million... I really don't see how downloading a product that isn't even finished is going to hurt more than actually downloading a finished game.

The only one who has been helping is mayro, and I thank you for that. I understand if you don't want to, but if it's possible I'd like that link you are talking about. My e-mail is [email protected].

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

You're underplaying the situation here. We're not talking about downloading an unfinished product - you're using the tools and assets stolen from Valve so you can use them to create something.

You say that you built your project around HL2 and now it's too late to change. How? If you don't know how the tools work a year after you started planning, then you can't have created any content that's specific to HL2. There's nothing to stop you from doing this project as a mod for Half-Life, or indeed any other engine.
You could even, as has been suggested, build maps in the current version of Hammer and convert them to be HL2 maps after release (Valve have clearly stated that there will be conversion tools for just this purpose)
The only thing preventing you from changing is that you don't appear to want to, to the extent that you're willing to go against Valve's wishes and create content with the stolen build.
Just because you believe that the majority of people have some illegally-obtained software doesn't justify what you want to do.

 

[^Ben]

Just a note i've never used the tools but i do frequent sites that do use it, Ya know which site I mean.

I do belive the beta leak did help valve in certain ways, just like the leak of hl1 helped them. What a great marketing tool the leak was. How many people have downloaded it? And the vast majority i have spoken too really like the engine and the parts of the game that was complete.

If you even try to comprehend how many people have played the leak it's amazing. The first day on supah.org it had over 11000 sources it's supahs longest lasting torrent with over 2000 seeds/leechers at ALL times. And then you try to factor in downloads from other torrent sites and and other sources the mind just boggles.

I'm not saying it's right and just, but there where obvious benefits like the marketing for the game.

And if valve really condoned all sources of the leak why did Gabe post on "the" site.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

There wasn't a leak of HL1. Someone uploaded the OEM version ("Day One") prior to the game's release. You can't even begin to compare it to the theft of HL2.

The theft in no way helped Valve. For every person that you say liked it, there's at least one other person that though it ran badly and looked awful, because they judge it as representative of the finished game.

The fact that you're overlooking is that the vast majority of people that downloaded the stolen build were going to buy it anyway. So in that respect, it's not been a marketing tool at all.

So far, I'm yet to see a single tangible benefit to Valve of people downloading the stolen build.

And if valve really condoned all sources of the leak why did Gabe post on "the" site.

I think you mean "condemned". Oh, and is this the same site that very recently got told to remove links to stolen build content? Thought so.

 

[fanero]

Pi Mu Rhu
Since you are not a part of our project, you have no idea in what ways we need HL2 for our mod, and I don't have to explain to you either.
Mind you say exactly in what way it is worse that I create something with some tools that have not been released yet (which I will buy when they are (HL2)), than the fact that you yourself probably hold an illegal copy of Photoshop, Maya or some other tool?
I don't need you to preach morality and justice. If you don't want to contribute with knownledge about this subject, please don't. Otherwize, stop whining or ban me, which I am sure you soon will...

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

No, you don't have to explain. However, the fact that you are unwilling or unable to do so speaks volumes.

As has been pointed out to you, you can make maps for HL2 without using any of the stolen build at all. However, you have rejected this completely. It appears that you want to use the stolen build for the sake of it.

As I'm no doubt sure you realise, these are publicly-accessible forums. You make a post, people can and will respond. Don't like what they say? Deal with it or leave.

However, one thing that has been made abundantly clear to all but the most limited of intellects for quite some time now is that you do not come to this site for assistance with any aspect of the stolen build.

Now that I'm fairly sure you understand this point, I'm confident that you won't trouble us with this subject again.

 

[fanero]

Ok, fine, I read the rules and thought I understood them but ok.
There are lots of reasons why we want HL2 and to map in new hammer, the biggest one is that we chose our idea with the thoughts of HL2 in mind. We have considered other engines, but neither of them are good enough for our modidea. The other big reason is that maps in new hammer are much bigger, and allows us to build the entire map, without loadings. That is a must if our mod is going to be good. We also want to be familiar with the new Hammer before, and know whats new and how to use it. We have already written the story, done some of the concept art and models. The only thing slowing us down is the fact that we can't map. And since we only have half a year to finish this project we must start now.

 

[Shinobi]

well that makes people like me who are politely waiting for the official legal release of the new hammer feel much better...


we all have projects in the works,, some of us just choose to respect the wishes of people who are helping us achieve our project goals more easily

 

[ToddTheFrog]

Do they teach you how to spell illegal in this school?

-Todd

 

[Kyorisu]

What crazy teacher would let a group of students create their own poject anyway? I don't know but it's sounds rather fishy the only thing related to games I've ever been able to get away with was creating a HL flash game like Myst for Multimedia.

How are you going to be assesed, marked and graded? Most teachers of todays era hardly know what todays technology graphic wise is capable of other than movies. I just can't see this happening.

 

[Sieni]

ALL THIS IS TRUE:

In my school we are allowed to do almost anything with computers IF it's related to work. Like downloading mods and mod tools.

I have programming in shool 2 hours per week. I have got a permission to use those hours for making mods.

 

[The Dark Elf]

What crazy teacher would let a group of students create their own poject anyway? I don't know but it's sounds rather fishy the only thing related to games I've ever been able to get away with was creating a HL flash game like Myst for Multimedia.

How are you going to be assesed, marked and graded? Most teachers of todays era hardly know what todays technology graphic wise is capable of other than movies. I just can't see this happening.

Look on the bright side, keeps the kids off the streets and out of other people's homes thieving