Matrix\Reloaded

L

Logic

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I was just reading MrMagneticwhatever's anti-deus-ex thread, and came across some attacks on the Matrix movies for their "lack of complexity".

I'm interested to hear what people thought of them, and how many people actually realised how deeply they can be interpreted. Personally, while I'm no scholar of ancient texts or anything like that, with the limited knowlege I have I still found the religeous allegories fascinating. Anyone who's read about gnostic theology will know what I mean. Reloaded was packed full of related interesting stuff, despite the criticisms of many that it was a storyless action movie. The Matrix was pretty straight forward, but reloaded really got me thinking, and few movies manage to do that nowadays.

A quick google revealed this page: http://www.corporatemofo.com/stories/051803matrix.htm which should be an interesting read for anyone who hasn't thought of the movies in this way before. I don't agree with everything whoever wrote this is saying, but it's still got interesting points and comparisons, and he knows more than I do anyway :cheese: .

Any thoughts?
 
Well what are they then? :cheese:

Btw my favorite quote from the article: "Will Neo wake up and say, "Bill, dude, you won't believe this bitchin' dream I just had. . ."? " lol
 
Hmm at least read the article before you start spamming up the thread - you might actually become interested. If not, no need to post.
 
Maybe I should have just made a poll and said "W0t y00 7h1nk 4bou7 teh MATRICKS m00vues"
-iS teh R0x0rz!!!!!11
-iS n07 teh RRoX0rs!!
-u r gay logic

That would have got more replies, I think.
 
no1 was good in a philosophic way, but Reloaded was more fancy fighting sequences than real philosophy (the chit-chatted a little about the choice thing, but only to lead to the next action sequence. but hey, who went into Matrix reloaded to hear them talk. Everybody just wants some action in a cool way. Kinda. Sorta.
 
I think the Matrix movies have a plenty deep story. I cant wait to see the next one.

PS - Go watch the new trailer , get it from whatisthematrix.com


And its no suprise that guinny has been banned before , hes an asshole.
 
Originally posted by Archangel
no1 was good in a philosophic way, but Reloaded was more fancy fighting sequences than real philosophy (the chit-chatted a little about the choice thing, but only to lead to the next action sequence. but hey, who went into Matrix reloaded to hear them talk. Everybody just wants some action in a cool way. Kinda. Sorta.
Click to expand...

A lot of people would agree with you.. But a lot of the dialogue and characters in Reloaded actually had a lot more meaning than many people realised - even more than I realised, I only picked up on some of the symbolic meaning. I think reloaded was actually had a lot more philosophical stuff than the first one. That article I posted above explains it pretty well I think.
 
I loved the scene with the architect , alot of people hated it though. I dont think they could understand the bigger words though so it just pissed them off. But it really was an awsome scene.
 
everything down to the way the code is displayed in rows of neon green text was stolen from that film
 
Originally posted by DimitriPopov
Heres how much I fcking care:
Click to expand...
Don't flame, he's got a point.

The watchoiskermwhatever brothers actually have given an enormous amount of credit to ghost in a shell - I've seen them mention it in a lot of interviews, and on the animatrix dvd. I still haven't seen GIAS yet, but I'll probably buy it (I thought akira was great so I'll probably end up liking this too).
 
I highly recommend Ghost in the Shell for anybody besides dimitri who doesent even have the required intellect to understand dragonball
 
Originally posted by DimitriPopov
I didnt think this thread was about their inspiration. ....
Click to expand...

His point is relevant to the thread's topic. Whether you care about his point isn't.
 
thankz logic

my point really is that The Matrix may discuss lots of good areas of philosophy many other media productions had already done so... in other words philosphy isint the only thing that was done before the matrix... also the style
 
MATRIX = great movie #2 on my altime greatest movies list. If you look into it too much you might hate it. I dont see how you can really hate it unless your trying to be in the "cool rebel i dont like popular stuff" group. It was all around a good movie to watch.

Matrix : Reloaded = ehh..it was good. Thats about it. Got so cheesy at points and the burley brawl looked lame to me.

Matrix: 3, from the trailer it looks to be better than the first 2. but who knows it might suck.
 
I think the article is trying very hard to scrape anything religious or philosphical into a metaphor in the movie. Because the basis of the matrix is a philosophical thought introduced to mankind a few thousand years ago, people tend to try and relate it to various deep-minded things.

While some of these things may have given them ideas, I doubt many of them were actual attempts by the screenplay writers to include deep Gnostic theory. Authors regularly state that readers read in much to their books that they didn't intend or try to put into them, yet the readers find vast philosophies embedded in the story.

The concept that the world is not real is a very old and basic one that stretches back to the ancient Greeks. And while Neo has been compared to Jesus, he reaches into competing ideologies to relate it to different points. The Five Books of Moses theory is lame and made me laugh out loud. If Neo had been the seventh he would have related it to the 6 days to create the Earth.

I wasn't aware that Gnostic theory says that Satan created the world--that is surprising and maybe incorrect.

Clearly there are religious overtones. Neo falls in love with Trinity, the divine arch thing is a good catch. Besides the Trinity of Christianity, groups of three were always considered a symbol of power. SOme say the "Holy Spirit" was invented because God and Christ would not "sell" as powerfully as a divine trinity would, so they added a third. When he talks about the werewolves/wraiths and tangents into later conquerors who were descendants of christ he sounds like he is trying hard tofind the six degrees of everything Matrix to something deep.
 
Hey this has nothing to do with that religious stuff but if you unscramble neo you get one!!!

...

Ok i'll be in the corner.
 
The major problem with Reloaded is that it's not put together very well. I mean you see this super-cool scene with two semi's hitting each other in slow motion and then get to listen to somebody talk philosophy for 10 minutes. Did they really expect people to "think" after seeing that scene?

And the dialog is really, really bad at places. No, I didn't really enjoy seeing Neo throw out cheesy oneliners and act like God/Superman.
They movie might have had some interesting ideas in it, but with dialog like that I couldn't take it too seriously. The first movie is so much better in this respect.
 
Neo: Yo
Morpheus: Wsup homie?
Neo: Nothin much, you know, hittin the bitches, slappin the switches.
 
meh....i thought the first movie was great...and i thought the second one sucked balls.....

nuff said.
 
yah people make religiouse ties with matrix in the LAMEST ways... i mean they must be religoiuse nutheads.

Some guy was saying how NEO was Jesus and Smith was Satan. Thats just stupid. The movie isn't THAT christian. I saw some buddhist philosiphies tho.
 
Originally posted by subs
Some guy was saying how NEO was Jesus and Smith was Satan. Thats just stupid. The movie isn't THAT christian. I saw some buddhist philosiphies tho. [/B]
Click to expand...
Uhmm..those are the most obvious corellations. Neo is the "One", the Savior. Smith is a solider/warrior he falls and rebels on his own-Satan is a fallen angel. These are basic story elements that commonly relate back to whatever classic story used them prominently.

and in case it slipped by you...

Zion[zI´un] Pronunciation Key or Sion[sI´un] Pronunciation Key, section of Jerusalem, defined in the Bible as the City of David. Originally the name referred to the Jebusite fortress conquered by David, on the southeastern hill of Jerusalem. Zion was later applied to the hill where the Temple stood, and in turn came to denote the Temple area itself. Zion is symbolic of Jerusalem, of the Promised Land, of Israel's hope of returning to Palestine (hence the term Zionism), and of heaven or God's dwelling-place with his people
 
Yeah the Jesus thing is fairly obvious in the movie. So obvious actually that it looks silly.

BTW, there is a theory floating around that a similar situation occurs in HL2. It could be either good or bad ...
 
no. I think its opinion. No were do i see Smith as satan.
Maybe if i was a religiouse freak i would see so. However i do see how Neo could be "jesus"(still wtf?)

either way i dont think the Wachowski's wanted a correlation btwn smith and freakin satan. Whatever, i hope that the 3rd one doesn't end up with a CROSS being hung on neo or something lame like that.
 
Originally posted by RoyalEF


and in case it slipped by you...

Zion[zI´un] Pronunciation Key or Sion[sI´un] Pronunciation Key, section of Jerusalem, defined in the Bible as the City of David. Originally the name referred to the Jebusite fortress conquered by David, on the southeastern hill of Jerusalem. Zion was later applied to the hill where the Temple stood, and in turn came to denote the Temple area itself. Zion is symbolic of Jerusalem, of the Promised Land, of Israel's hope of returning to Palestine (hence the term Zionism), and of heaven or God's dwelling-place with his people
Click to expand...

hehe, it slipped by me cause i have no idea what that stuff is or anything really about it. (im not christian or close to it)
 
Smith isn't Satan. He is, sort of, a third power (and he still has his part to play in the destruction of the matrix). Machines are evil, humans are good. however, and thats the funny part, Neos doing is, locked from the utilitarism way of thinking, ethical wrong.
 
The main theme of the first movie was living a lie vs. facing the truth, blue pill vs. red pill, etc. Which was really great.

Now in the second movie the Wachowskis apparently forgot all that and I don' even know what the point of the second movie is besides doing fancy kung-fu shit and crusing in Cadillacs. :dozey:
 
no.. machines are not evil. Watch the animatrix and you will see the machines aren't supposed to really be evil they are just trying to survive.
 
I really want to hurt the guy who played Link/and Link if i ever met him in real life, epescially for saying "he's doing his superman thang"

Twat (sorry it really pissed me off, made the film feel too 'americanised' [no offence])
 
Wasn't americanized. no both films are pretty much same director/creators. IT was always an american movie(hello american/semi-canadian team).

what happened is that reloaded got hollywood-ized(mainstreemed), the worst thing.
 
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