Maybe everything was planned?!

[Quek]

maybe all these things wich happened to gordon was just cospirancy? every little thing plannned? maybe it was a part of a reality show?! or maybe someone put gordon into virtual reality? what do you think?!

 

[Naudian]

I think you should not think about it.

 

[Bing_Oh]

I think that The Matrix has already been released. Gordon is not in virtual reality nor is he a divine savior. To make him such would be highly unoriginal.

The closest Gordon is to these things is, in literary parlance, a duex ex machina...though, in the context of the story, I doubt that there is any such association.

 

[ríomhaire]

Here is proof it isn't VR

Spoiler

Gabe isn't an idiot.

 

[Quek]

I think that The Matrix has already been released. Gordon is not in virtual reality nor is he a divine savior. To make him such would be highly unoriginal.

am i addicting to matrix?!

 

[bvasgm]

maybe it was a part of a reality show?!

Ahhahahahahahhahahah....whew....oh wait...you're serious.

 

[eber]

you suck

 

[Seppo]

It has been pointed out before that the resonance cascade could have been planned

 

[Blakeb155]

What sort of friggin ending is that? You find yourself fragging the Combine Advisor and then the G-man comes and tells you its a reality TV show. I'd personally see that Marc Laidlaw is assasinated.

 

[ríomhaire]

It has been pointed out before that the resonance cascade could have been planned

The scientists at the start of HL1 said the administrator (Breen) was eager to get the sample tested and he (Breen) ordered the anti-mass spectromitor to be turned up so high and caused the resonance cascade and the Xen (then Combine controled) invasion. Then Breen surrenders to the Combine (after the 7 hours war).
Very suspicious.

 

[Killbot]

Now how did Breen get into contact with the Combine? All the scientists on Xen were slaughtered and I don't think that the Nihilanth has the ability to 'speak' (via telepathy) to humans over a distance of one hell of a lot of miles (or a dimension).
Maybe he just wanted to test a new crystal in order to make the portal bigger and thus being able to send some more heavy equipment over to Xen to guarantee better protection to his scientists.

 

[sfc_hoot]

What interests me is - how did Breen get the power, and the authority to surrender Earth? Out of all the remaining world leaders, presidents, ministers, generals, colonels, commanders, priests and so on - one man from a research facility gained the power to surrender the entire Earth! Who gave him that right - without objecting? And just how did he get everyone to agree? I would've thought that Earth would've been surrendered by an army general after a hard battle - not some administrator from an alien-infested research facility.

We all know that Breen climbed to power after the surrender - but how did he get the power to surrender. Why was he so significant in the 7 Hours War?

 

[Blakeb155]

What interests me is - how did Breen get the power, and the authority to surrender Earth? Out of all the remaining world leaders, presidents, ministers, generals, colonels, commanders, priests and so on - one man from a research facility gained the power to surrender the entire Earth! Who gave him that right - without objecting? And just how did he get everyone to agree? I would've thought that Earth would've been surrendered by an army general after a hard battle - not some administrator from an alien-infested research facility.

We all know that Breen climbed to power after the surrender - but how did he get the power to surrender. Why was he so significant in the 7 Hours War?

By being the admistrator at BM, he was most probably was in alot of contact with the Combine. So he most probably agreed with the Combine that way. But how did he force the rest of the world to surrender though. Unless the Combine killed all the other world leaders, and set him in charge.

 

[Jenga]

By being the admistrator at BM, he was most probably was in alot of contact with the Combine. So he most probably agreed with the Combine that way. But how did he force the rest of the world to surrender though. Unless the Combine killed all the other world leaders, and set him in charge.

He (Breen) probably had the Combine kill the world leaders. Or the Combine did it on their own.

Or he (Breen) could have had a lengthy discussion with the UN and convinced them that since he (Breen) had the most contact with them (the Combine) he could arrange a better deal (a mix of truth and lies). The leaders bought the lie, and the rest is HL2.

 

[Laivasse]

I have a different take on the whole thing. Since I don't believe the Combine had anything to do with Xen, I don't believe they could have made contact with him that way. Instead what I think happened was that in the years following Black Mesa, Earth suffers more and more from random Xen wildlife incursions, ruining the seas, terrifying the populace, etc. According to Raising the Bar at one point there was going to be a sequence in which Eli Vance showed Freeman a slideshow saying just as much.

Breen, as ex-administrator in Black Mesa, would have been one of the few people left who would have known what was going on. You can assume he had some pretty strong governmental ties already, since Black Mesa was a secret govt facility (although jury's still out on whether it might have been private). You could theorise that he climbed the ranks during Earth's Xen-related decay, acting as an advisor, policy maker and strategist while Earth's populace was looking for security. By the time the Combine turn up Breen could have been practically holding the position of Worldwide Advisor on Extraterrestrial Defense Policy or something, which would have put him in an ideal position to bargain, and further his own ends since we already know that he's a dodgy bastard from the part he might have played in Black Mesa. I'm still not sure I want to pin the whole thing on him though,but certainly the whole secretly stealing aliens thing was very Breen.

And who knows - maybe Breen had a link to GMan at Black Mesa, or even still does in HL2. From what he says to you near the end, it seems like he knows about your "contract"....

 

[Pai-Mei]

maybe it was a part of a reality show?! or maybe someone put gordon into virtual reality? what do you think?!

I think you need to be hit with one of these.

I agree with Laivasse... Breen was most likely the "Worldwide Advisor on Extraterrestrial Defense Policy" or something to that effect, being the only living man with the most knowledge of the Xen creatures, at least. It makes sense, then, that he would have the authority, directly or implied, to "surrender" to the Combine.

 

[Jenga]

Lavaisse: What made you think the Combine had nothing to do with Xen? (I'm not belittling your theory, just asking for your reasons) I think there was enough evidence that the Vortigaunts were enslaved, and were still being enslaved by the Combine at City 17. (Remember the broom-pushing Vort in the station?) Some of the Vort's lines when you talk to them also refer to slavery, and Gordon freeing them from it.

 

[Laivasse]

Lavaisse: What made you think the Combine had nothing to do with Xen? (I'm not belittling your theory, just asking for your reasons) I think there was enough evidence that the Vortigaunts were enslaved, and were still being enslaved by the Combine at City 17. (Remember the broom-pushing Vort in the station?) Some of the Vort's lines when you talk to them also refer to slavery, and Gordon freeing them from it.

Well the main reason, and I think it's a very strong piece of evidence, is that there is not *one* sign of the Combine's presence on Xen in HL1. Everything there is organic, the grunts appear to be grown, instead of factory produced or whatever you'd expect the Combine to do, and none of it *fits* with the Combine M.O.

Like I said in another thread, the Combine, and Xen are like 2 different ends of an alien spectrum...when Xen overflows into earth it's an organic infection; chaotic and disordered, random wildlife, not much that acts like an organised invasion force, walls and surfaces turn into what looks like living tissue, etc etc....

The Combine are totally different - when they punch into Earth it's utterly precise, big straight metal towers smack into the middle of cities, huge walls of metal that expand outwards and swallow stuff of their own accord, and the Combine themselves attack with their semi-machines in a highly organised manner, with the sole aim of taking a species and adding it to the Combine. Please note that you *never* see anything from Xen that has been modified by the Combine. So if they were on Xen, what the hell were they doing there if it wasn't to "Combine"? I know some people say that the new headcrabs in HL2 might have been modded by the Combine, but solely biological enhancement just isn't their style - because the Combine are a mechanical infestation, not a biological one.

Some people argue that the reason there's no Combine stuff on Xen, and no Combine-Xen crosses is that the Combine only ever touched the Nihilanth, so that they could invade Earth through Xen. Well for a moment let's ignore the fact again that this is not the Combine's style (like I say, they only conquer races so that they can swallow them and strengthen the Combine). For one thing, the "invasion" of Earth in HL1 was shoddy and it didn't have the Combine's mark of efficiency. Second: well, exactly how would it benefit the Combine to have everything on Earth slaughtered by Xen forces? That way don't expand their own Empire in the slightest....the Combine don't just have other races conquer in their name, for territory - they want to capture species, whole, and use them as weapons.

I see them as a kind of big metal cancer moving through the universe. Some might say that they used Xen to invade Earth to soften it up - why bother? That's far too complex and pointless for such an efficient force. And even without a Xen ruled Earth they conquered the place in *7 hours*. I don't think they were that scared of Earth that they figured they had to conquer an entirely different planet and use it to soften us up first....and besides I SWEAR I read somewhere that the Combine were actually *attracted* to Earth by the portal energy released after the Black Mesa incident.

I don't deny that the vortigaunts were enslaved - but just by the Nihilanth (and the Controllers). Personally I don't think the Nihilanth was controlled by anyone. Its "we are all slaves" comment could easily be taken as a reference to how everyone, Gordon and Xenians included, is being manipulated somehow...similar to the vortigaunts' comment in HL2 "something secret steers us both".

....and just basically, when all's said and done, there's nothing in either game that suggests the Combine had anything to do with Xen. It never occurred to me once in HL2. I don't believe there has to be just one bad guy in the universe...maybe there's as many as 3 or 4 bad guys in HL1 and 2 if you factor in the possibility of G Man's employers and Breen working for their sinister interests.

And anyway, what's the point in making the Combine the enemy in both games? If that's the case then you've cacked on their plans once already by the time of HL2 - makes them seem shoddy and less formidable! And noone with such cool gas masks should be considered unformidable...

Cheers for reading such a long-arse post if you made it this far.

 

[Pai-Mei]

You left one thing out, Laivasse, which is, in my opinion, the strongest argument of all. Dr. Mossman says that the Combine have no idea how to use Xen teleporters, or even that they can use Xen to aid teleportation. I would think that a race that had Xen and the Nihilath completely enslaved would've learned a thing or two about teleportation.

 

[Jenga]

Well the main reason, and I think it's a very strong piece of evidence, is that there is not *one* sign of the Combine's presence on Xen in HL1. Everything there is organic, the grunts appear to be grown, instead of factory produced or whatever you'd expect the Combine to do, and none of it *fits* with the Combine M.O.

Like I said in another thread, the Combine, and Xen are like 2 different ends of an alien spectrum...when Xen overflows into earth it's an organic infection; chaotic and disordered, random wildlife, not much that acts like an organised invasion force, walls and surfaces turn into what looks like living tissue, etc etc....

A good argument, but to the Xen and Combine, we are also aliens. Our planet is different, our bodies work differently, and so do our wildlife. Vortigaunts have natural combat abilities, and don't require factory augmentation like humans (who are primarily tool users, thus reliant on technology). It stands to reason that the Combine, accustomed as they would be to conquering and assimilating, would play to the newly enslaved race's strengths and augment our tech-using abilities.

The Combine are totally different - when they punch into Earth it's utterly precise, big straight metal towers smack into the middle of cities, huge walls of metal that expand outwards and swallow stuff of their own accord, and the Combine themselves attack with their semi-machines in a highly organised manner, with the sole aim of taking a species and adding it to the Combine. Please note that you *never* see anything from Xen that has been modified by the Combine. So if they were on Xen, what the hell were they doing there if it wasn't to "Combine"? I know some people say that the new headcrabs in HL2 might have been modded by the Combine, but solely biological enhancement just isn't their style - because the Combine are a mechanical infestation, not a biological one.

Again, its our cities and technological reliance that are the big difference between Xen. It stands to reason that the same technique that worked on Xen wouldn't work on us (assuming Xen was biologically altered). Different biological makeup, different techniques. (Not taking account the cuffs and collars the Vorts were wearing in HL1 - I will assume they were Xen technology)

The lack of Xen presence could be a sign that they were confident enough in the Nihilanths control of the Vorts and Xenians to leave the place mostly alone. And - from a control standpoint - they were right to do so. No Vort rebellions I know of during Freeman's visit.

For one thing, the "invasion" of Earth in HL1 was shoddy and it didn't have the Combine's mark of efficiency. Second: well, exactly how would it benefit the Combine to have everything on Earth slaughtered by Xen forces? That way don't expand their own Empire in the slightest....the Combine don't just have other races conquer in their name, for territory - they want to capture species, whole, and use them as weapons.

...Some might say that they used Xen to invade Earth to soften it up - why bother? That's far too complex and pointless for such an efficient force. And even without a Xen ruled Earth they conquered the place in *7 hours*.

It's been discussed on other forums and generally agreed upon that the Xen invasion's purpose was not to conquer or slaughter Earth. It was to drive Earth citizens from the "wilds" into cities - gathered in a clump - for easy pickings. You said it yourself. The Combine is efficient. Ruthlessly efficient. They herded Earth's human populace using XEN forces. No matter how wasteful or costly to Xen forces, it was still the SLAVE FORCE that accomplished that. How much more ruthlessly efficient could you get? Not one Combine trooper died in that incident. Who better to pay the butcher's bill than someone you had conquered?

With the Earth population all together and vulnerable, the Combine forces - having surprise totally on their side - pick off the cities all at once and enslave humans in droves rather than waste time hunting for us all over the world. Bam. Almost no effort. Seven hours. Pure efficiency. Which wouldn't have happened without the Xen invasion. They weren't scared of Earth forces. They were smart.

...and besides I SWEAR I read somewhere that the Combine were actually *attracted* to Earth by the portal energy released after the Black Mesa incident.

Really? I'm interested in reading that, do you think you could find it again and post it here? That WOULD put the arguments in a new light.

Personally I don't think the Nihilanth was controlled by anyone. Its "we are all slaves" comment could easily be taken as a reference to how everyone, Gordon and Xenians included, is being manipulated somehow...similar to the vortigaunts' comment in HL2 "something secret steers us both".

If it wasn't the Combine who enslaved the Vorts, then why are they (the Vorts) helping the Resistance? Out of gratitude for Gordon killing the Nihilanth? Maybe, but I doubt they'd be so grateful as to risk the enslavement (again) or extinction of their species. The answer is simple: they want to get back at their slavers.

And anyway, what's the point in making the Combine the enemy in both games? If that's the case then you've cacked on their plans once already by the time of HL2 - makes them seem shoddy and less formidable! And noone with such cool gas masks should be considered unformidable...

I doubt Laidlaw would make a huge story like HL without some unifying theme or enemy tying it all together (and NO it is NOT the G-man). Remember that in both HL1 and 2, you have no idea what is going on in the big picture. Gordon's an attack dog, and the G-man (and his employer) is holding the leash. Someone higher up is thinking of the strategy, and that doesn't make the Combine less formidable (they do have cool masks after all lol), it just proves that your employer is just as brilliant.

And the thing about HL1 is that you DIDN'T cack their plans. Xenians still got out. Humans were still driven back. The 7-hour war still happened. It was just a minor annoyance in the grand scheme of things. The Combine probably said "great, we lost a slave race. That's ok, we got another one."

I don't believe there has to be just one bad guy in the universe...maybe there's as many as 3 or 4 bad guys in HL1 and 2 if you factor in the possibility of G Man's employers and Breen working for their sinister interests.

You're right, there is no one bad guy. You're up against an organization, an empire - The Combine. But they have leadership. If you're gonna kill a snake, strike for the head.

Congrats and thanks for reading my long-winded post.

Laivasse: I'm not pissing on your theory. It's a really interesting one. I'm just offering counterpoints, and you're free to do the same (which you already have lol). This is a great discussion, and it shows how much interest people have in HL.

 

[Laivasse]

You left one thing out, Laivasse, which is, in my opinion, the strongest argument of all. Dr. Mossman says that the Combine have no idea how to use Xen teleporters, or even that they can use Xen to aid teleportation. I would think that a race that had Xen and the Nihilath completely enslaved would've learned a thing or two about teleportation.

Ah of course, good point. That definitely figured into my reasoning, but my post had grown so stinking long by then that I was wary of adding any more.

@Jenga: Thanks for all your well-considered points.

I have utterly no idea about where I read that the Combine were attracted to Earth by the portal energy. Anyone help me out? All I remember was the impression it left with me, which was that the Combine were meant to be new invaders...It's possible I read it in a not-very-clued-up preview long prior to the release of the game, or that I did read it from a reputable source that I've since forgotten - either way, it means that the jury can remain out on this one for the meantime.

As regards your other points: hrmmmm, so much of this now boils down to how someone wishes to see the Combine, and what impression they left on your mind from the way they behaved in HL2.

It doesn't seem to me that they would adapt their invasion strategy at all depending on the planet. For me, although they are by no means clumsy or ill-considered, they think and operate in and straight lines (a lot like their teleportation tech). I reckon they: see a planet or race with potential->aim->fire, and then that race can look forward to certain "immortality in the Combine" (genocide). I certainly don't think that they would ever be so onobtrusive as to leave absolutely no visible trace of themselves behind (Xen), although they might perhaps erase other species without a trace (again unlike Xen). They also obviously have their own styles of architecture and design, neither of which appear anywhere on Xen.

About your theory on how they may have used Xen forces to drive humanity into vulnerable city-clusters. That's a good theory and one I had vaguely considered myself - this might seem feasible to me except that again it's fundamentally out of line with my view of the Combine. Specifically, it would mean that the Combine got nothing out of their occupation of Xen other than a temporary weapon against Earth - a weapon I doubt they would have really thought they needed. Okay maybe it would have become a 10 hour war, but...

But importantly, I don't think the Combine create "temporary" weapons. They couldn't ever "lose" control of a race in the way that the Vorts became uncontrolled. I would say that that's as unpalatable to them as the Overwatch suddenly turning against them. A far more Combine-esque way of getting the most out of Xen and Earth species would be, IMO, to go to Xen and put gasmasks on everything, and then come to Earth and invade with those forces too, being a stronger Combine as a result. One thing I read, on this forum this time, was that Marc Laidlaw said that humanity was the *first* race enslaved by the Combine as opposed to just being added to their glorious cancer empire. Which would mean they didn't enslave the vorts before that.

As for the vorts helping us: well, they were a slave race on Xen due to the Nihilanth. Those on Earth surely realise that in order to avoid becoming a slave race on Earth too they need to fight against the Combine. I don't think there's much more to it than that.

I just find it a far more brutal and harsh story if you take it that Earth, after having it's back broken by one alien disaster, suddenly finds itself at the mercy of another alien force which is about a dozen times more threatening. The sheer difference in level of the threat makes it seem utterly hopeless; we are pWN3d big time. And it makes you want to fight even harder because mankind's been so unfairly screwed...and there's still plenty of unifying threads if you want to look for them; Gordon for a start. Then the Xen aliens, the connection to the BM incident, G Man, the crowbar....

Gordon's an attack dog, and the G-man (and his employer) is holding the leash. Someone higher up is thinking of the strategy, and that doesn't make the Combine less formidable (they do have cool masks after all lol), it just proves that your employer is just as brilliant.

Hmm, regardless, Gordon wasn't being controlled or directed by GMan in HL1, rather he attracted GMan's attention through his performance. So what that would mean is that one random scientist liberated an entire planet from the Combine almost by accident - it has nothing to do with GMan's employers. I don't think the Combine would ever leave an operation so vulnerable. On top of that, if Gordon's toppling of the Nihilanth made no difference, why go to the trouble of enslaving it at all? Perhaps to start off the chain of portal disturbances, but I don't buy it...as Pai Mei said they seemed to have learned nothing of teleportation from their supposed domination of a lifeform that knew everything about it.

Damn this was meant to be a short post....

Cheers for your input.

 

[Jenga]

Cheers for yours as well. :thumbs:

Those new bits of info are interesting... I'll post here again when I've done more research.