Mercury's Cheating Article

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Glo

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Glo said:
The article is here:
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/business/technology/personal_technology/8133358.htm

Its about cheating in multiplayer games
They mentioned Valve and other companies and their cheating issues.

I wonder if its possible to punish cheaters with permanent removal from online games, like Blizzard does (or trying to do) with its battle.net servers.
If Valve does it right, I really hope cheating might be over
Click to expand...
It would be a cool punishment. Complete removal if caught cheating. Some way of stopping them getting back on, even if they buy a new copy of the program.
 
It'd be the best way to do it.

It's like if everytime a rapist was convicted, you cut off one of his testicles, he's likely to have learnt his lesson.

Probably more effective than putting you in a jail with free meals, central heating, television and recreational and educational activities for years. Jail is slightly more humane, but I think you see my point.
 
Well actually, Blizzard does this thing by your CD-key, so if you buy another copy, youre not banned anymore.
I dont think HL2 players who were cought cheating and removed from the online games will buy a new copy just to cheat again. unlike D2 players who sell their loot that was achieved by cheats in ebay.
 
what if you get falsly acused and removed from online play forever and you wern't cheating?
its happend to me and its not fun (temp ban, but still).
 
Gordon'sFreeman said:
what if you get falsly acused and removed from online play forever and you wern't cheating?
its happend to me and its not fun (temp ban, but still).
Click to expand...
There would probably be better ways to check if something like this came into effect.. Lots of solid proof etc.

Thats what we do here and it works well. We don't ban anyone unless we can show solid proof. So nobody is banned if their innocent. I'm sure Valve could come up with a better working solution too.
 
i really hope so, when i was banned it was way back, the guy acusing just cried and cried and bitched until he got his way with an admin, and i really dont want that to happen again.
hopefully it all works out :)
 
The thing with server admins is they can do what they want. if they dont like you, they can ban you.
what im talking about is a permanent removal from all online servers. this is if youre using a cheat. im not sure if its possible, but it will be good if valve has the abbility to know whos cheating and whos not, and kick thoese who are out of MP
 
well, if Valve are doing it, it ok, but there needs to be a SH*T load of proof :D
 
My friend plays Star Wars Galaxies and he sells credits on ebay(he has made $1000 in a month or 2). He also exploits the game alot and he is a griefer, every time he gets banned from the game he just goes to best buy and exchanges his game and gets a new cd key. There is no way to stop cheaters like that.
 
Cheaters i multiplayer should be hanged...


I often cheats... but in sp only... and 75% of the times i have beaten the game before and just wanna have some fun...
 
I've said this before and i'll say it again.

Hacks gte made to bypass a security update within hours of the updates to vac or cheating death etc. The only way to rid games of hackers is to update the anti cheat software very often and detect hacks but then do not ban them, do not tell them the hacks have been found in fact do nothing for a month or two. Then when you have a large databse of the hackers found in the last couple of months you ban them all from all games which require you to connect to steam. You ban their SteamID, their IP address and their email address that you have in the steam account. You can ban thier credit card info too from future purchases.

There's nothing to stop them getting a new copy of the game and installing it and playing again but you can bet it will stop the kiddies out there who install cheats for a laugh. you'd just get the serious cheaters still doing it and i'm pretty sure after a while they'll tire of it. With steam hopefully putting an end to CD-key gens and pirate copies of the games you'll be making hackers pay in cash for hacking.

It would need a leagally sound disclaimer on all games and it would need a very good and well implemented system to prevent false positives removeing legit gamers but it's the only way I can see to do it.

In fact all the recent steam updates over the last 6 months, what's to say valve don't have a nice database of hackers from the last 6 months already......
 
There should be a BIG RED FLASHY STICKER on the box of HL2, I mean HUGE... saying "CHEATING IN ONLINE PLAY WILL RESULT IN PERMANENT BAN" or something, because waaay too often do cheaters say, and I quote: "Its my game, I payed for it, I can do whatever I want"

and VAC, should be VICIOUS, this cheating BS has gone on for waaaay too long... I mean its seriously bad. I dont even think the people cheating give it a second thought, most of those kids think its ok, or cool to cheat... I seriously wish Game retailers were more strict with their customers, selling M rated games to 10 year olds has to stop.

IM appauled by the cussing these lil guys say, I mean I never said a swear word until I was like 18, and still I think swearing is kinda trashy. Dont get me wrong, not all kids are bad, but still if a game is rated 18, then people should stick to that. (no offence to anyone who is younger, especially the mature younger crowd) just that younger people tend to be more impressionable, as well as less likely to give a *hit about anyone else, these are the kids rationalizing their actions.
 
IMO that would be awsome, a permanent ban from online games.

Maybe ones should get a permanent ban from teh internet if one hacks? IMO that would be cool, and fair.
 
I agree with Mr Redundant on the 18 rated games issue but I know it'll be almost impossible to police, since there's nothing stopping family form buying these titles for their kids (albeit irresponsible family). Since your STEAM account is linked to your email address, it would be easy for VALVe to ban offenders simply by not letting that email address be registered again. Ok, so the hotmail peeps can just create a new account, but only the die hard hax0rs will want to go through this hastle.
 
My parents are teachers, and seeing all the angry parents yell and offence teachers with no reason.. this is the kind of education they give to their children.
Seeing these kinds of parents makes me no doubt about parents buying 18 rated games to their children , hell, maybe even pirate them..
 
Foxtrot said:
My friend plays Star Wars Galaxies and he sells credits on ebay(he has made $1000 in a month or 2). He also exploits the game alot and he is a griefer, every time he gets banned from the game he just goes to best buy and exchanges his game and gets a new cd key. There is no way to stop cheaters like that.
Click to expand...
Yeah, it's a strange mentality!

"OMG They banned me!! I'll show them who's boss...by giving them more money for a new copy of the game...and cheating again!!"

Which i'm sure is exactly what the hack writers do for HL. They just keep giving Valve more money every time they try a new cheat and it doesn't work. It's a paradox. On one hand these people (hackers) are fighting the authority and rules laid down by Valve, but are also giving Valve $$$ to keep them alive!

It's totally bizarre.
 
It's surprising and also a little worrying that so many parents don't even realise pirating stuff is illegal.. Now if they started arresting the parents and fining them like they are doing with kids playing truant. I bet things would change quickly. Move the kids PC out of his/her bedroom and into the livingroom and things will begin to improve for the rest of us. IMO.
 
I don't think they should over do it tho, I mean I'd cry if I got banned from ever playing again online in HL2 so... I think they should just ban them for like a month. Or, If they DO go with perm ban then atleast when the guy buys a new copy he pays off the dept and is able to play again. $70 FRIGGEN DOLLARS MAN!?
 
-JeZ- said:
I agree with Mr Redundant on the 18 rated games issue but I know it'll be almost impossible to police, since there's nothing stopping family form buying these titles for their kids (albeit irresponsible family). Since your STEAM account is linked to your email address, it would be easy for VALVe to ban offenders simply by not letting that email address be registered again. Ok, so the hotmail peeps can just create a new account, but only the die hard hax0rs will want to go through this hastle.
Click to expand...

Thats why there should be a huge flashing disclaimer that should mention a permanent ban from online gaming (by purchasing this product you agree that your account may be forfeit if you are caught cheating), account as in CD key, and all valid info that goes with it, IMO in order to play online one should have to register and have to provide valid proof of one's age.
true an adult could register for his kid, and that may be fine... got nothing against kids, if you want to allow your child to play violent video games and let them be exposed to bad influence (aka porn decals/bad language/bad ethics/violence and gore) etc, thats fine (although in all honesty they probably let their children do what they want, just to shut them up = bad parenting imo).

BUT there should be a report function in steam (ala XBOX live) you can give someone else your playing with, a bad report.
how this works (in XBOX live) is say "jojomamas_ass" is cussing out, attacking people personaly and all around being a smacktard, well you bring up your player list, find his name, open up his player report... and you are presented with a list of options with checkmark boxes next to them.

they are general like: "player has exhibited foul language excessively []"
or "Player disrupts gameplay often[]" or whatever, there are also good things like "Player practices exemplary attitude []" etc etc

now you might think, well thats silly, if you dont like someone you just vote all kinds of silly crap and get them banned... it doesnt work like that though, it takes a LOT of votes to make an impact, but as people start using the system, they can weed out the morons from Online play.

however that system is only effective if you use it, and often times people dont bother.

anyway, the point is, everyone should get a chance... we all have bad days, but when someone is a true to life smacktard/teamkilling/cheating/moron excessively, they should be removed from the online community at large... or at least until they reach a level of maturity that they can play with others.

whenever someone says "its my game, I payed for it, I do what i want" or "well if you dont like cheats, dont play on public servers" or "lol nub" (WTF IS WITH NUB?!?!? first it was newbie, then Newb, then Noob, now NUB?!? omg kill these kids quickly.. who knows what they will rape next)

WaterMelon34 said:
I don't think they should over do it tho, I mean I'd cry if I got banned from ever playing again online in HL2 so... I think they should just ban them for like a month. Or, If they DO go with perm ban then atleast when the guy buys a new copy he pays off the dept and is able to play again. $70 FRIGGEN DOLLARS MAN!?
Click to expand...
I think it is the only way people will learn, since there should be a huge disclaimer warning them not to, its time for zero tolerance, at least until people take it seriously.

and no one need be scared if they dont cheat.
 
If you don't want a permanant ban then just don't install hacks, simple.
 
maybe its not that simple.. i can think of viruses spreading all over the net that actually make you a cheater unwillingly. that if you dont have a good protecting units
 
I think that's the whole point WaterMelon m8, if the punishment fits the crime then it'll serve as deterrant and that's what is needed.
 
Glo said:
maybe its not that simple.. i can think of viruses spreading all over the net that actually make you a cheater unwillingly. that if you dont have a good protecting units
Click to expand...
never heard of anything of the sort, however, use antivirus then.
there will always be an excuse, they need to start cracking down on cheaters to see a difference.
 
I'm not so sure about outright banning, firstly, cheating is not a crime and taking someone's game away from them when they have paid for it is going too far, especially if you take into consideration other options.

Secondly, I have been banned from countless CS servers since I started playing many years ago, sometimes just for shaming an admin so that the only option for him to save face is call me a cheater and ban me.

Thirdly if there was a detecting method that was cast iron and foolproof, then there'd be no need to ban the cheaters for life, since all the cheats could be detected and the offender kicked from the server as soon as they joined.

Before anyone asks, no, I'm not on the side of the cheater. I've just been on the receiving end of far too many accusations for me to blindly cheer permanent bans as a good thing.

Happy flaming.
 
well technically cheating would be a crime if there were a disclaimer that the user agreed to, and then broke that agreement (as I mentioned before).
I too have been banned from many servers, for simply being a good player... its frustrating, but irrevelant. What we are discussing is not an admin kicking you for suspected cheating, people will always do that (calling you a cheater, even when cheating is abolished just to save face).

we are talking about people who DO use hacks, and are caught (server logs, proof, steam etc), not some guy saying "lolz j00 is ter cheet!" perma ban!
people dont have that kinda power, think of it this way, there are THOUSANDS of servers online... if someone banned you from that server it wasnt worth playing on in the first place... go elsewhere. :)

unfortunately there will never be a foolproof method of detecting cheats, since the people with no lives besides creating them will never stop. The only other solution is to stop people from using them, by force, or through example.

I can see where you are coming from, and respect your opinion, and agree with some of it to an extent... however some things need to change.
 
Crusader said:
I'm not so sure about outright banning, firstly, cheating is not a crime and taking someone's game away from them when they have paid for it is going too far, especially if you take into consideration other options.
Click to expand...

And yet cheaters ruining the game for someone else is fine? How would you justify that?
 
Crusader said:
I'm not so sure about outright banning, firstly, cheating is not a crime and taking someone's game away from them when they have paid for it is going too far, especially if you take into consideration other options.

Secondly, I have been banned from countless CS servers since I started playing many years ago, sometimes just for shaming an admin so that the only option for him to save face is call me a cheater and ban me.

Thirdly if there was a detecting method that was cast iron and foolproof, then there'd be no need to ban the cheaters for life, since all the cheats could be detected and the offender kicked from the server as soon as they joined.

Before anyone asks, no, I'm not on the side of the cheater. I've just been on the receiving end of far too many accusations for me to blindly cheer permanent bans as a good thing.

Happy flaming.
Click to expand...

Firstly cheating isn't a crime true but you said it yourself, taking someone's game away from them is exactly what you do when you cheat, you're taking other peoples games too a point where they may as well not have it for the amount of enjoyment they get out of it. Secondly its not fully taking someone's game away just their right too play it in an enviroment where they have proved they are not responsible enough too play in.

Secondly although you could be banned from a server because of an idiot admin or what not it is not the same thing as what we are talking about. No one person would have the ability too perminately ban you from a network, it would be like valves VAC at the moment or some other program that does it rather then working on a judgement meathod. Admins could ban you but only from their indervidual server.

Thirdly I agree, there isn't a method thats fool proof, thats why when you do catch them with solid proof you ban them for life then and there. No matter what hackers will always find a way too come out with new undetectable cheats which aren't picked up so if you mearly kicked people instead of banning them they would just go through the stage of cheating cheating cheating, anti-cheat is updated then going too a diffrent hack and cheating cheating cheating... if they were banned for life they would go cheating cheating cheating, banned, can't cheat again.

I can see some of your points but I also don't think they are too valid too be honest. At the end of the day cheating isn't a problem, cheating in a public enviroment where it effects other people which have payed money for their game IS a problem.
 
Iconoclast, if VAC worked to the extent that it could be trusted to ban cheaters permanently, then it could be trusted to kick them from game and so they couldn't ruin anyone's game in the first place. Also, I'm not a cheat, why should I justify a group of people's behaviour that I feel is wrong? You miss the point of what I was saying entirely.

Basically it comes down to not being able to trust a computer program with a game I paid hard earned cash for. If that program makes a mistake, and VAC flags you as a cheater, your money goes down the drain. Now if VAC makes mistakes in not being able to pickup some cheaters, I think it's reasonable to assume the reverse statement might be true.

I suppose Valve could hold Ban Tribunals and Cheat Appeal Courts, but somehow I struggle to imagine 'due process' being given to suspected cheats.

An interesting example is my Half-Life mod, in our mod we have som brightly coloured player models which caused everyone who played it to be flagged by anti-cheat as a cheater and removed from the server. Of course we changed the models pretty quickly after we realised this, but that is an example of just how fallible anti-cheat systems are.

IMHO, cheaters should be given free psychiatric treatment, as people who feel somehow inadequate when not sitting at the top of a CS server clearly need it... :D
 
You said: "Taking someone's game away from them is going too far"

I merely meant to say that cheaters do that to me every single ****ing time I play certain games. They ruin the experience, wasting my money and time and taking the game away from me. It is not going too far to take the game away from them.

From all that I've heard about games like Counterstrike I literally cannot imagine playing that game. It would be like pulling teeth. "Hey! I'm doing great! Wait, why am I taking fire through a wall?".

I'm not talking about cheaters now, but I'd advocate shooting people in the head who hide behind their monitors and use that as an excuse to cause real grief and upset to people over the Internet, but hey, I can't really see too many people agreeing.

"IMHO, cheaters should be given free psychiatric treatment, as people who feel somehow inadequate when not sitting at the top of a CS server clearly need it... "

Or that, of course.
 
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